Jan Engelhardt kirjoitti sunnuntai, 3. maaliskuuta 2013 18:28:44:

On Sunday 2013-03-03 17:10, Freek de Kruijf wrote:

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At http://en.opensuse.org/Live_USB_stick#Linux_instructions_3 it says:

# zypper in syslinux # isohybrid openSUSE-12.1-DVD-x86_64.iso

I can confirm that the wiki page is outdated.

The NET ISO image can be directly written to USB storage and be executed. isohybrid is not needed at least here.

I made USB stick from openSUSE-12.3-DVD-Build0094-x86_64.iso using dd. It boots in Acer Aspire A10 netbook, but not in two HP xw4600 workstations. So I had to go shop and buy DVD-R disks. ;) -- Viljo -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

2013/3/3 Felix Miata :

On 2013-03-03 19:26 (GMT+0200) Viljo Mustonen composed: For systems that already have Grub installed somewhere, you don't need any isos, DVDs or sticks: http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Network_installation#Media_free_network_installat...

The page says that the proposed methods have been tested on oS 12.2 that uses Grub2 by default, but the page does not say how to add the grub2 install item. So, how can I make a media free network installation with grub2? Best, Andrea -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

2013/3/4 Felix Miata :

What the default bootloader is is orthogonal to the principles involved. All my openSUSE installations use Grub Legacy, regardless of oS version or what the default may have been at installation time. IMO it was in 12.2 and remains in 12.3 a mistake for Grub2 to be the unconditional default bootloader, but at least in openSUSE, unlike most other popular distros, Grub Legacy remains an easily selectable and very welcome option.

OK, but Grub2 is the default for oS 12.2/3 and this can not be changed easily now.

There need be no bootloader stanza to load the installation kernel and initrd. All that's required is access to a grub prompt (easily reached by escaping the Grub menu, if there even is one to start with), from which they can be loaded with a keyboard.

OK, but having a menu item is easier than writing one at grub time.

If you need to load them via the convenience of a menu stanza and only Grub2 is already installed from which to do it, then there are separate docs on point on how to modify the "do not edit" Grub2 menu. The essential elements of what might be included are there. The subject alternate installation methods page is providing examples, not a complete HOWTO.

I think this should be mentioned in the wiki page, just for completeness of information. Best, Andrea -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 06/03/13 18:57, Felix Miata wrote:

On 2013-03-06 08:17 (GMT+0100) Andrea Turrini composed:

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What the default bootloader is is orthogonal to the principles involved...

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Grub2 is the default for oS 12.2/3 and this can not be changed easily now.

Default means default, which means non-exclusive option, which means not forced down anyone's throat, which means something else with available and understandable instructions can be installed and used instead, hence, it doesn't matter what the default bootloader is and my use of the word "orthogonal" to so indicate.

I think that we have a language problem here. "By default" means that if you don't know what you are doing then the default file/application will be installed. The default grub in 12.2 and 12.3 is grub2. This is what will get installed, period, if allow the installation to do so. And this is what most people installing oS for the first time, or even the second or third or nth time, will do. There *is* the ability to change the bootloader to grub *provided* you know that this is possible. But if you don't know then grub2 will be installed by default.

If you need to load them via the convenience of a menu stanza and only Grub2

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is already installed from which to do it, then there are separate docs on point on how to modify the "do not edit" Grub2 menu. The essential elements of what might be included are there. The subject alternate installation methods page is providing examples, not a complete HOWTO.

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I think this should be mentioned in the wiki page, just for completeness of information.

It's a wiki. Feel free to add appropriate language. This is another example of a big problem with development of "new" and "improved", that documentation routinely falls behind, mostly because the devs who should be aware of what doc changes are indicated by their activity don't make them, while those in a position to write and with time to write haven't a clue what to write.

OK, you know about this so why haven't you done the amendment(s) to the "wiki"? BC -- Using openSUSE 12.2 x86_64 KDE 4.10.00 & kernel 3.8.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 06/03/13 19:55, Felix Miata wrote:

On 2013-03-06 19:25 (GMT+1100) Basil Chupin composed:

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There *is* the ability to change the bootloader to grub *provided* you know that this is possible. But if you don't know then grub2 will be installed by default.

Right on the main summary page above software selection is an option to click to customize the bootloader,

Yes, I know where it is.

akin to the other places to click to customize in the other sections on that screen, accompanied by the declaration that Grub2 is preselected/default. Someone who cannot infer from this the possibility of something else as an alternative needs assistance with installation instead of proceeding alone, lest they mire themselves in the frustration and aggravation of a clue shortage.

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while those in a position to write and with time to write haven't a clue what to write.

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OK, you know about this so why haven't you done the amendment(s) to the "wiki"?

You mean besides not knowing what to write? Grub2 is a complicated virtual abomination I don't need to know how to use, and so don't to any degree useful for documenting its use.

I got the impression that the only thing you wanted was to bring to people's attention that grub2 could be replaced by grub if one chose. I don't think that would require much straining, do you? :-) What you wrote in the earlier post and what you wrote here could be adequately transferred to the wiki and....voila! your amendment to the wiki is done! :-) BC -- Using openSUSE 12.2 x86_64 KDE 4.10.00 & kernel 3.8.2-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 04/03/13 20:15, Andrea Turrini wrote:

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On 2013-03-03 19:26 (GMT+0200) Viljo Mustonen composed: For systems that already have Grub installed somewhere, you don't need any isos, DVDs or sticks: http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Network_installation#Media_free_network_installat... The page says that the proposed methods have been tested on oS 12.2

2013/3/3 Felix Miata : that uses Grub2 by default, but the page does not say how to add the grub2 install item. So, how can I make a media free network installation with grub2?

Best, Andrea

Read this article - page 16 "Installation of boot loader on partition: http://www.linuxidentity.com/us/index.php?name=CmodsDownload&file=index&req=getit&lid=38 The bit there about installing grub2 should cover what you are after. The only thing to note here is that the article refers to grub (legacy) so replace "grub-install....." with "grub2-install....."; and later grub-mkconfig -o /media/btldr/boot/grub/grub.cfg with grub2-mkconfig -o /media/btdr/boot/grub2/grub.cfg Since you are going to install grub2 on an USB you will need to adjust the paths in the above commands. And make sure that the USB is mounted before installing and creating the cfg file. BC -- Using openSUSE 12.3 x86_64 KDE 4.10.00 & kernel 3.8.1-2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 19:03:48 +0100 (CET) "Carlos E. R." wrote: ...

El 2013-03-03 a las 17:10 +0100, Freek de Kruijf escribió:

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Nobody prevents you from changing the wiki page. It only needs activation. But you can ask for that on opensuse-wiki@opensuse.org.

No need for email. Wiki editors get that info when they log in the wiki. [1] Also, new list is opensuse-web@opensuse.org .

I don't know the motivation for the isohybrid usage, what versions need it and which not.

For sure 12.1 and earlier. Not sure for 12.2, and obviously it is not needed for 12.3.

Only the people that know how they create the ISOs know that, and those people are the developers in this factore mail list.

Coolo? What about 12.2?

Not everybody should edit any wiki page, only those with knowledge. Even less such an important page.

If we look only for knowledgeable to edit wiki we will wait for a long time. They have the same problem as any user that doesn't use wiki day in and day out; they have to learn quite a lot in order to contribute and as result, they do not contribute much. [1] Wiki structure is in my humble too complicated to be attractive for new generations of content creators that expect lesser learning and more visual help when editing, like they have in blogspot.com , situation will not improve very fast, if at all. Problem is that for years almost only editor that does that approval was me, so it depends on my activity how fast it will be approved and recently I have more fun learning Blender. Wiki is asking for too much time at once that I can't provide anymore, and even more, -- Regards, Rajko. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 El 2013-03-03 a las 23:41 +0100, Carlos E. R. escribió:

El 2013-03-03 a las 16:25 -0600, Rajko escribió:

I can edit the wiki adding that bit of information, sure, but without explanations as I know none.

Ok, I added a small note telling people not to run isohybrid for 12.3. You can review and accept it if you think it is ok. I can not give any explanations on which cases this is right or wrong or why, as I know nothing about that. That's for others to do. - -- Cheers Carlos E. R. (from 11.4, with Evergreen, x86_64 "Celadon" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlE0CfUACgkQja8UbcUWM1ws/AD/btu1ciV4Q9f38Ov16FYtcT6E Q8BL8mSmycMLvqhIrIEA/j9lWzvHcNCw2n+CxKPm9wuBSGzx8ruPhbOXZKXQ2Ami =n90J -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 11:41 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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I don't know the motivation for the isohybrid usage, what versions need it and which not.

For sure 12.1 and earlier. Not sure for 12.2, and obviously it is not needed for 12.3.

I can edit the wiki adding that bit of information, sure, but without explanations as I know none.

But what abot 12.2?

Isohybrid hasn't been required since at least 12.2. By my notes, 12.1 also didn't need isohybrid (I've noted that the 12.1 RCs didn't need isohybrid to create a bootable DVD on USB). C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 El 2013-03-04 a las 12:39 -0600, Neil Rickert escribió:

"Carlos E. R." <> wrote:

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# isohybrid openSUSE-12.1-DVD-x86_64.iso

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Apparently running isohybrid breaks booting (the iso contains two partitions, on a GPT structure, for use with UEFI). Those instructions in the wiki should be corrected.

I have checked that "isohybrid" is not needed for 12.3, nor for 12.2. In the case of 12.2, I only checked the 32-bit. For 12.3, I checked both 32 and 64-bit. My own 64-bit 12.3 installs have all been done without isohybrid.

The changed Wiki wording (thanks, Carlos), looks good to me.

Thanks. I have edited the page again to include 12.2 in that note. - -- Cheers Carlos E. R. (from 11.4, with Evergreen, x86_64 "Celadon" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlE1OYwACgkQja8UbcUWM1zMpQD7B1fB+PgdZ5ZkgjU3/S2NlVix OcHnkVkQcqNbDssYR4cA/3k5joD7Tui2IbajMFg6yvT0HkIXgMaiB1mnyZQ6jGV0 =p7VU -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

On Monday 04 March 2013 23:19:10 Rajko wrote:

On Tue, 5 Mar 2013 01:17:03 +0100 (CET)

"Carlos E. R." wrote:

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I have edited the page again to include 12.2 in that note.

And that is approved too :) Thanks, guys, that work on the wiki is appreciated...