Jan Engelhardt wrote:

On Thursday 2015-07-02 23:07, Andrei Dziahel wrote:

...

Great to see next snapshot, but it comes with a problem — is it is huge which may be the burden for users with less performant internet connection (say I've got 2.2G to download on primary desktop and 1.5G on secondary desktop/fileserver).

The general response has been: then don't update as often - or even consider switching to the regular release.

...

Can delta rpm building and publishing be enabled for Tumbleweed repositories?

The most recent word on it is: no, since there are so many updates, and keeping (let alone generate!) deltas for all them is not considered feasible, since users may have arbitrary past versions.

Well, I guess we could generate deltas for the last two or three snapshots for example. The truth is nobody actually invested time to evaluate that possibility yet. So it's unknown how much time, CPU and disk space it takes to generate deltas, nor how much bandwidth they would save. cu Ludwig -- (o_ Ludwig Nussel //\ V_/_ http://www.suse.de/ SUSE Linux GmbH, GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Dilip Upmanyu, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Hi Ludwig, I'm totally fine with just one drpm. Tumbleweed is about keeping up so that should be enough. Thanks. 2015-07-03 10:08 GMT+03:00 Ludwig Nussel :

Jan Engelhardt wrote:

...

On Thursday 2015-07-02 23:07, Andrei Dziahel wrote:

...

Great to see next snapshot, but it comes with a problem — is it is huge which may be the burden for users with less performant internet connection (say I've got 2.2G to download on primary desktop and 1.5G on secondary desktop/fileserver).

The general response has been: then don't update as often - or even consider switching to the regular release.

...

Can delta rpm building and publishing be enabled for Tumbleweed repositories?

The most recent word on it is: no, since there are so many updates, and keeping (let alone generate!) deltas for all them is not considered feasible, since users may have arbitrary past versions.

Well, I guess we could generate deltas for the last two or three snapshots for example. The truth is nobody actually invested time to evaluate that possibility yet. So it's unknown how much time, CPU and disk space it takes to generate deltas, nor how much bandwidth they would save.

cu Ludwig

-- (o_ Ludwig Nussel //\ V_/_ http://www.suse.de/ SUSE Linux GmbH, GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Dilip Upmanyu, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg)

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-- Regards, Andrei Dziahel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Hi Stephan, What kind of work? Does it involve writing code? If so, I think I'd be able to contribute missing pieces. Thanks. 2015-07-03 10:52 GMT+03:00 Stephan Kulow :

On 02.07.2015 23:26, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

...

On Thursday 2015-07-02 23:07, Andrei Dziahel wrote:

...

Great to see next snapshot, but it comes with a problem — is it is huge which may be the burden for users with less performant internet connection (say I've got 2.2G to download on primary desktop and 1.5G on secondary desktop/fileserver).

The general response has been: then don't update as often - or even consider switching to the regular release.

...

Can delta rpm building and publishing be enabled for Tumbleweed repositories?

The most recent word on it is: no, since there are so many updates, and keeping (let alone generate!) deltas for all them is not considered feasible, since users may have arbitrary past versions.

It's technically possible - and providing some delta rpms would already help I guess. But it's work to implement this as we have no support for deltas in product repos - only for update repos.

Greetings, Stephan

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-- Regards, Andrei Dziahel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan composed on 2015-07-02 20:00 (UTC-0400):

Fabian Niepelt composed:

...

I'd advise using the -d option of zypper which causes it to only download the new packages and not install them. Let that run over night or during your lunch break or whatever and then zypper up without the -d to overwatch the update process.

This is *especially* true when updates/upgrades are of this magnitude. Having space, I *always* download the entire change first, then apply all at once.

I've only done one zypper dup since 0630 hit the mirrors, in my usual way, with DownloadAsNeeded in zypp.conf and with only the -v switch on zypper cmdline. 940+ packages, and no hiccups. After all, this is a rolling release, right, and with zypper, FOSS's newest most evolved package manager? My TW installations don't have room to download a whole distro's worth of rpms before starting the upgrade process, which can be a major PITA in Fedora, which AFAIK has no option to not download everything first. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-03 08:42, Basil Chupin wrote:

What am I missing here? If I recall correctly 'zypper dup' first downloads all the files and, after they are all downloaded, installs them -

This is configurable. The default, at least on the standard distro, is not that. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWWZ18ACgkQja8UbcUWM1y8rAEAl00pXR2E0IIJYCBnOSbMkdDt U2f1qphCwiLecLULLFsA/Rt73Qa89oow5v1R+VtulyHEQoO8UQIkK+JD49yQaj0e =JqzN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-03 12:47, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:

Op vrijdag 3 juli 2015 12:43:43 schreef Carlos E. R.:

...

This is configurable. The default, at least on the standard distro, is not that.

Well, we're not on the standard distro, are we?

Well, but you can check that little detail and tell us, right? - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWWagAACgkQja8UbcUWM1xLJAEAlZbkMoV1Om84QaR54qwGk4PX 4e8aIAteQxhcs5WRxJQBAIm21QIDh0EXxlBOjE/w1tRE39dsgFZ3QeEQk9xQNAHF =AbQE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-03 08:54, Basil Chupin wrote:

Running 'zypper up' will refresh the repositories and will download and install any files which were added/changed

Er... not "changed". Only if the version goes up, if it goes down it is ignored. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWWZ8wACgkQja8UbcUWM1wQlAD/YkUd+sgy9KhwSnLlKUAJHLHQ zFmVh8YRg/ZkYHPAF9YA/0Vr7mqM6IAEu87fLM8i6e6Y0At1jMUYdhndkcYo1fjo =Jym4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 5:30 PM, Brüns, Stefan wrote:

On Friday, July 03, 2015 06:47:24 Marcus Meissner wrote:

...

On Fri, Jul 03, 2015 at 12:07:42AM +0300, Andrei Dziahel wrote:

...

Hi list,

Great to see next snapshot, but it comes with a problem — is it is huge which may be the burden for users with less performant internet connection (say I've got 2.2G to download on primary desktop and 1.5G on secondary desktop/fileserver).

Can delta rpm building and publishing be enabled for Tumbleweed repositories? That would save not just bandwidth but also time of fellow Tumbleweed enthusiasts. Or, if there's concerns of any sort, make it opt-in so project owners could test-drive it before enabling it globally.

You probably saw that usually the changes are small.

As we changed the system compiler, all packages had to be rebuilt. delta rpms would not have made it significantly smaller, as a new major compiler version usually changes a lot of things.

Ciao, Marcus

By their very nature, noarch packages wont be affected by a compiler change.

Often, these are large packages (wallpapers, documentation with screenshots).

Often, the package contents do not change even for newer versions.

Please correct, if I am wrong.

The content of such package may still be generated at build time (like genrating font from some source format) and tool to do it may need to be compiled. In this case package probably has BuildRequires on gcc which will trigger rebuild (I think). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 5:39 PM, Marcus Meissner wrote:

We cover a lot of unchanging packages using build-compare. If build-compare worked, the package would not get updated in a full rebuild scenario.

But you still need to build package before you can compare build results, not? So it won't appear on mirrors, but will still be rebuilt, right? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Friday, July 03, 2015 16:39:22 you wrote:

On Fri, Jul 03, 2015 at 05:38:25PM +0300, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

...

On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 5:30 PM, Brüns, Stefan

wrote:

...

On Friday, July 03, 2015 06:47:24 Marcus Meissner wrote:

...

On Fri, Jul 03, 2015 at 12:07:42AM +0300, Andrei Dziahel wrote:

...

Hi list,

Great to see next snapshot, but it comes with a problem — is it is huge which may be the burden for users with less performant internet connection (say I've got 2.2G to download on primary desktop and 1.5G on secondary desktop/fileserver).

Can delta rpm building and publishing be enabled for Tumbleweed repositories? That would save not just bandwidth but also time of fellow Tumbleweed enthusiasts. Or, if there's concerns of any sort, make it opt-in so project owners could test-drive it before enabling it globally.

You probably saw that usually the changes are small.

As we changed the system compiler, all packages had to be rebuilt. delta rpms would not have made it significantly smaller, as a new major compiler version usually changes a lot of things.

Ciao, Marcus

By their very nature, noarch packages wont be affected by a compiler change.

Often, these are large packages (wallpapers, documentation with screenshots).

Often, the package contents do not change even for newer versions.

Please correct, if I am wrong.

The content of such package may still be generated at build time (like genrating font from some source format) and tool to do it may need to be compiled. In this case package probably has BuildRequires on gcc which will trigger rebuild (I think).

We cover a lot of unchanging packages using build-compare. If build-compare worked, the package would not get updated in a full rebuild scenario.

build-compare decides on the source rpm level, IIRC. If one spec/source-rpm generates arch dependent and noarch packages, the noarch will also be published even if only the arch dependent packages has changed. This is common for doc and lang packages, and even some wallpaper packages, e.g. KF5:breeze5. There is also the case (not related to the mass rebuild) when only the changelog is updated. This would be covered by a delta rpm, but of course registers as a package change with build-compare. Regards, Stefan -- Stefan Brüns / Bergstraße 21 / 52062 Aachen home: +49 241 53809034 mobile: +49 151 50412019 work: +49 2405 49936-424

Quoting Alessandro Russo :

I'm still using kde4, I've blocked almost all plasma 5 packages and at this time it worked great. With this snapshot if I try to upgrade zypper want to remove : the following application: Thunderbird

the following 17 packages: baloo-file baloo-tools kactivities4 kde4-l10n-it kde4-l10n-it-data kde4-l10n-it-doc kde4-print-manager ksshaskpass patterns-openSUSE-kde4_games patterns-openSUSE-kde4_internet patterns-openSUSE-kde4_multimedia patterns-openSUSE-kde4_office patterns-openSUSE-kde4_utilities patterns-openSUSE-kde4_utilities_opt patterns-openSUSE-kde4_yast patterns-openSUSE-sw_management_kde4 plasma-addons

the following 8 models: kde4_games kde4_internet kde4_multimedia kde4_office kde4_utilities kde4_utilities_opt kde4_yast sw_management_kde4

can I upgrade the other packages to gcc5 and keep the old kde4/plasma4 packages? Are the problems in having a system with packages compiled with gcc4 and packages compiled with gcc5?

I don't know - and I bet nobody will lean out and tell you 'yes, you can'. What you run is simply not what Tumbleweed is meant to be and you're thus completely on your own. Dominique -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org