[opensuse-factory] Gnome 3 poll
This is a Gnome 3 poll with a large number of participants. http://translate.google.ru/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linux.org.ru%2Fpolls%2Fpolls%2F6568335 It seems the overwhelming majority does not like Gnome 3. I wonder why the creators of Gnome 3 did not conduct similar polls before. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 09/01/2011 08:11 PM, Ilya Chernykh wrote:
This is a Gnome 3 poll with a large number of participants.
It seems the overwhelming majority does not like Gnome 3. I wonder why the creators of Gnome 3 did not conduct similar polls before. I like the ideas, but its buggier than Windows Live Mail. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le jeudi 01 septembre 2011, à 20:22 -0700, Roger Luedecke a écrit :
On 09/01/2011 08:11 PM, Ilya Chernykh wrote:
This is a Gnome 3 poll with a large number of participants.
It seems the overwhelming majority does not like Gnome 3. I wonder why the creators of Gnome 3 did not conduct similar polls before. I like the ideas, but its buggier than Windows Live Mail.
Bug numbers? Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 02/09/11 13:11, Ilya Chernykh wrote:
This is a Gnome 3 poll with a large number of participants.
It seems the overwhelming majority does not like Gnome 3. I wonder why the creators of Gnome 3 did not conduct similar polls before.
Not quite sure what you mean by your question. How can one conduct a poll about something to gain people's reaction to it before it is actually made available for use? But I suspect that you meant something different when you asked your question :-) . But, I am not sure that that is what that poll is indicating. What it shows is that most people do NOT USE it and not that they do not like Gnome 3. Only a tiny percentage (1.79%) stated that they did not like using it - unless you include the 114 voters (14.65%) who indicated that they did try it but switched over to another DE and the 27 (3.47%) who are still using it and would like to switch but cannot get off their backsides to switch to another DE :-) . PS BTW, asking questions in such "polls" - any polls for that matter - is an art in itself. One can ask questions tailored in such a way so as to provide the results one is after. For example, "Have you abused your wife recently?" :-) . BC -- Bob Hope's wife: "Where would like to be buried when you die?" Bob Hope : "Why don't you surprise me!" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 02 September 2011 10:59:54 Basil Chupin wrote:
This is a Gnome 3 poll with a large number of participants.
It seems the overwhelming majority does not like Gnome 3. I wonder why the creators of Gnome 3 did not conduct similar polls before.
Not quite sure what you mean by your question. How can one conduct a poll about something to gain people's reaction to it before it is actually made available for use? But I suspect that you meant something different when you asked your question :-) .
I meant asking people about what changes do they like.
But, I am not sure that that is what that poll is indicating. What it shows is that most people do NOT USE it and not that they do not like Gnome 3. Only a tiny percentage (1.79%) stated that they did not like using it - unless you include the 114 voters (14.65%) who indicated that they did try it but switched over to another DE and the 27 (3.47%) who are still using it and would like to switch but cannot get off their backsides to switch to another DE :-) .
Just compare the number of those who likes it and who does not like. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 02/09/11 17:25, Ilya Chernykh wrote:
On Friday 02 September 2011 10:59:54 Basil Chupin wrote:
This is a Gnome 3 poll with a large number of participants.
It seems the overwhelming majority does not like Gnome 3. I wonder why the creators of Gnome 3 did not conduct similar polls before.
Not quite sure what you mean by your question. How can one conduct a poll about something to gain people's reaction to it before it is actually made available for use? But I suspect that you meant something different when you asked your question :-) . I meant asking people about what changes do they like.
Ah, I thought so.
But, I am not sure that that is what that poll is indicating. What it shows is that most people do NOT USE it and not that they do not like Gnome 3. Only a tiny percentage (1.79%) stated that they did not like using it - unless you include the 114 voters (14.65%) who indicated that they did try it but switched over to another DE and the 27 (3.47%) who are still using it and would like to switch but cannot get off their backsides to switch to another DE :-) . Just compare the number of those who likes it and who does not like.
Most interesting. Since your post, and my look at the results, some 41 people voted (?because of your post?). Well, irrespective of whether the poll questions and results are in Russian or translated into, say, English, they still show that only some 19.90% of the respondents can be regarded as having some knowledge of Gnome 3 and have reacted to it by either switching to other DE, thinking about switching or not happy using it. 49.45% of those who voted simply don't use it. But it doesn't mean that they don't like it - it simply shows that they do not use it. 18.19% (149) simply don't care about it, and 5.13% (42) don't even know what Gnome 3 is. BC -- Bob Hope's wife: "Where would like to be buried when you die?" Bob Hope : "Why don't you surprise me!" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 02 September 2011 12:02:37 Basil Chupin wrote:
Well, irrespective of whether the poll questions and results are in Russian or translated into, say, English, they still show that only some 19.90% of the respondents can be regarded as having some knowledge of Gnome 3 and have reacted to it by either switching to other DE, thinking about switching or not happy using it.
49.45% of those who voted simply don't use it.
But it doesn't mean that they don't like it - it simply shows that they do not use it.
18.19% (149) simply don't care about it, and 5.13% (42) don't even know what Gnome 3 is.
Just compare those who expressed dislike to Gnome 3 and those who liked it. You can not to count those who does not use it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 02/09/11 18:26, Ilya Chernykh wrote:
On Friday 02 September 2011 12:02:37 Basil Chupin wrote:
Well, irrespective of whether the poll questions and results are in Russian or translated into, say, English, they still show that only some 19.90% of the respondents can be regarded as having some knowledge of Gnome 3 and have reacted to it by either switching to other DE, thinking about switching or not happy using it.
49.45% of those who voted simply don't use it.
But it doesn't mean that they don't like it - it simply shows that they do not use it.
18.19% (149) simply don't care about it, and 5.13% (42) don't even know what Gnome 3 is. Just compare those who expressed dislike to Gnome 3 and those who liked it. You can not to count those who does not use it.
Ilya (may I call you Ilya?) you have looked at the results of the poll and understand how statistics work? I don't mean any offence in any way, but I think that you should provide the figures on which you base your comments. After all I provided my set of figures to support what I stated and now it is time for you to quote what you understand the figures are to support your conclusion. Just as an explanation of why I am asking and pressing this point is: your continued insistence on using the term "who expressed dislike to Gnome 3". At this moment there are 19 voters out of 933 (again jumped in the past hours!) who reply to the specific and direct question that they are using it but don't like it. All other votes are ambiguous and do not state that they "dislike" - as you claim - Gnome 3. As I already stated, one can write poll questions in a way to get the result which you want. In other words, if the questions are not correctly worded then you get the wrong or inconclusive answers - which is the case in this poll you brought to our attention. The translation from the original Russian worded poll to English is accurate - but the questions are still open to misinterpretation and leading to ambiguous answers. BC -- Bob Hope's wife: "Where would like to be buried when you die?" Bob Hope : "Why don't you surprise me!" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 02 September 2011 19:46:13 Basil Chupin wrote:
At this moment there are 19 voters out of 933 (again jumped in the past hours!) who reply to the specific and direct question that they are using it but don't like it. All other votes are ambiguous and do not state that they "dislike" - as you claim - Gnome 3.
This is not true. All people who switched to anothe DE due to Gnome 3 obviously dislike it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 03/09/11 02:06, Ilya Chernykh wrote:
On Friday 02 September 2011 19:46:13 Basil Chupin wrote:
At this moment there are 19 voters out of 933 (again jumped in the past hours!) who reply to the specific and direct question that they are using it but don't like it. All other votes are ambiguous and do not state that they "dislike" - as you claim - Gnome 3. This is not true. All people who switched to anothe DE due to Gnome 3 obviously dislike it.
Sorry, Ilyah, but their switching over to some other DE is not "obviously" because they hated or disliked Gnome 3. It took me some many days to work out how to use Gnome 3 but I am a patient man and persevered. Not everyone has the patience to get something new to work especially when there are almost non-existent instructions on how to use the new DE and so people simply go back to their comfort zone so that they can get some work done instead of fighting with some bit of software which is making it hard for them to get their work done. But it doesn't mean that they "hated" or "disliked" Gnome 3. On the other hand, I liked Gnome 3 very much and said so in the gnome mail list. But I stopped using it because it was a pain in the arse when it came to getting things done. I still like it and I do not hate it - I simply think that it is a pain in the arse to use. And when I also then read the post from the main 'developer' of gnome 3 for openSUSE that he is now spending his time in porting Unity to openSUSE that really turned me off gnome and convinced me that KDE really IS "the future". BC -- Bob Hope's wife: "Where would like to be buried when you die?" Bob Hope : "Why don't you surprise me!" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 03 September 2011 18:00:35 Basil Chupin wrote:
At this moment there are 19 voters out of 933 (again jumped in the past hours!) who reply to the specific and direct question that they are using it but don't like it. All other votes are ambiguous and do not state that they "dislike" - as you claim - Gnome 3. This is not true. All people who switched to anothe DE due to Gnome 3 obviously dislike it.
Sorry, Ilyah, but their switching over to some other DE is not "obviously" because they hated or disliked Gnome 3.
They switched BECAUSE of Gnome-3. Just not to use it. People who switched due to another reason are not included in this number. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 03 September 2011 18:00:35 Basil Chupin wrote:
I still like it and I do not hate it - I simply think that it is a pain in the arse to use.
This is a very non-typical attitude because usually people like what they can comfortably use. Not to say the Gnome-3 developers proclaimed usability as one of their aims. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 02/09/11 13:11, Ilya Chernykh wrote:
This is a Gnome 3 poll with a large number of participants.
It seems the overwhelming majority does not like Gnome 3. I wonder why the creators of Gnome 3 did not conduct similar polls before.
Funny, it certaily feels like a deja-vu We had exactly the same msg's regarding KDE.... hw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Freitag 02 September 2011 05:11:24 Ilya Chernykh wrote:
I wonder why the creators of Gnome 3 did not conduct similar polls before. Because only retards judge a whole software generation on its dot-0 release. GNOME 3.2 is just around the corner with many improvements. 3.4 in ~7 months will have even more improvements, and so on... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 09/02/2011 01:57 PM, Markus Slopianka wrote:
On Freitag 02 September 2011 05:11:24 Ilya Chernykh wrote:
I wonder why the creators of Gnome 3 did not conduct similar polls before. Because only retards judge a whole software generation on its dot-0 release. GNOME 3.2 is just around the corner with many improvements. 3.4 in ~7 months will have even more improvements, and so on...
Sorry, but why they pushed that dot-0 crap as a release in the first place? If it is not ready for users to be tested and to be judged, it shouldn't be released as a major version at all. It was just crap and some GNOME developers seem to be masters of the known universe. Well, they are not because they apparently didn't look into the KDE 4 history. And we (those running factory of opensuse) were forced to move to gnome 3 unconditionally. Unlike with KDE 3 -> 4 move. Or we might switch to other environment. I chose the latter and won't switch back. I have enough of other work than switching DMs. regards, -- js suse labs -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le vendredi 02 septembre 2011, à 15:44 +0200, Jiri Slaby a écrit :
And we (those running factory of opensuse) were forced to move to gnome 3 unconditionally. Unlike with KDE 3 -> 4 move. Or we might switch to other environment. I chose the latter and won't switch back. I have enough of other work than switching DMs.
I'm sad to hear this. Unfortunately, I don't think it would have been possible to do things differently: there was no way to keep GNOME 2 and GNOME 3 at the same time with our current (read: extremely limited) resources. I'm also interested to hear what's not working for people in the fallback mode compared to a GNOME 2 experience. If you (general you, not just Jiri) are not happy with how GNOME is developed in openSUSE, a good first step is to join the opensuse-gnome mailing list or #opensuse-gnome channel, and start discussing how to improve things. We're not horrible people hating the world. At least I hope we're not :-) Cheers, Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
And we (those running factory of opensuse) were forced to move to gnome 3 unconditionally. Unlike with KDE 3 -> 4 move. Or we might switch to other environment. I chose the latter and won't switch back. I have enough of other work than switching DMs. I'm sad to hear this. Unfortunately, I don't think it would have been
Le vendredi 02 septembre 2011, à 15:44 +0200, Jiri Slaby a écrit : possible to do things differently: there was no way to keep GNOME 2 and GNOME 3 at the same time with our current (read: extremely limited) resources. I'm also interested to hear what's not working for people in the fallback mode compared to a GNOME 2 experience.
If you (general you, not just Jiri) are not happy with how GNOME is developed in openSUSE, I don't think this has anything to do with the way GNOME is
Vincent, On 09/02/2011 10:53 AM, Vincent Untz wrote: maintained/developed in openSUSE. You can only package/maintain the code that is available from upstream. If the upstream project makes decisions people do not like/agree with, unfortunately, the openSUSE GNOME team hears more about it from openSUSE users than upstream. Maybe you should just forward all the "I cannot stand it" messages to the gnome-dev list. ;) I moved to Xfce and no matter what is in store for GNOME 3.2..... I am very unlikely to return to GNOME. I have better things to do than to switch my desktop environment. Of course if the Xfce developers also fall of the rocker who knows..... Robert -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU SUSE-IBM Software Integration Center LINUX Tech Lead rjschwei@suse.com rschweik@ca.ibm.com 781-464-8147 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 02 September 2011 18:53:46 Vincent Untz wrote:
And we (those running factory of opensuse) were forced to move to gnome 3 unconditionally. Unlike with KDE 3 -> 4 move. Or we might switch to other environment. I chose the latter and won't switch back. I have enough of other work than switching DMs.
I'm sad to hear this. Unfortunately, I don't think it would have been possible to do things differently: there was no way to keep GNOME 2 and GNOME 3 at the same time with our current (read: extremely limited)
May be I am asking a wrong question, but why the resources are so limited? I heard that Novell is a company that operates with billions dollars and their business is SUSE-centric...
resources. I'm also interested to hear what's not working for people in the fallback mode compared to a GNOME 2 experience.
If you (general you, not just Jiri) are not happy with how GNOME is developed in openSUSE, a good first step is to join the opensuse-gnome mailing list or #opensuse-gnome channel, and start discussing how to improve things. We're not horrible people hating the world. At least I hope we're not :-)
Last week there was an interview with Jon McCann which was very disappointing for many people. He called to reject any patches and plugins that could make Gnome3 more Gnome2-like and suggested to those who are disappointed to just use another DE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Freitag, 2. September 2011, 18:03:55 schrieb Ilya Chernykh:
On Friday 02 September 2011 18:53:46 Vincent Untz wrote:
And we (those running factory of opensuse) were forced to move to gnome 3 unconditionally. Unlike with KDE 3 -> 4 move. Or we might switch to other environment. I chose the latter and won't switch back. I have enough of other work than switching DMs.
I'm sad to hear this. Unfortunately, I don't think it would have been possible to do things differently: there was no way to keep GNOME 2 and GNOME 3 at the same time with our current (read: extremely limited)
May be I am asking a wrong question, but why the resources are so limited? I heard that Novell is a company that operates with billions dollars and their business is SUSE-centric...
Novell is out. The next SLES, if any, will probably be done by the suse team which is not SLES. By the way, this is opensuse, the community thing which goes a long way making clear they're not a company's low budget linux and a bunch of idiots who work for free.
resources. I'm also interested to hear what's not working for people in the fallback mode compared to a GNOME 2 experience.
If you (general you, not just Jiri) are not happy with how GNOME is developed in openSUSE, a good first step is to join the opensuse-gnome mailing list or #opensuse-gnome channel, and start discussing how to improve things. We're not horrible people hating the world. At least I hope we're not :-)
Last week there was an interview with Jon McCann which was very disappointing for many people. He called to reject any patches and plugins that could make Gnome3 more Gnome2-like and suggested to those who are disappointed to just use another DE
Well, why should they be any wiser than KDE after they've fallen from grace? -- Ralf Lang Linux Consultant / Developer B1 Systems GmbH Osterfeldstraße 7 / 85088 Vohburg / http://www.b1-systems.de GF: Ralph Dehner / Unternehmenssitz: Vohburg / AG: Ingolstadt,HRB 3537 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 09/02/2011 07:53 AM, Vincent Untz wrote:
Le vendredi 02 septembre 2011, à 15:44 +0200, Jiri Slaby a écrit :
And we (those running factory of opensuse) were forced to move to gnome 3 unconditionally. Unlike with KDE 3 -> 4 move. Or we might switch to other environment. I chose the latter and won't switch back. I have enough of other work than switching DMs.
I'm sad to hear this. Unfortunately, I don't think it would have been possible to do things differently: there was no way to keep GNOME 2 and GNOME 3 at the same time with our current (read: extremely limited) resources. I'm also interested to hear what's not working for people in the fallback mode compared to a GNOME 2 experience.
If you (general you, not just Jiri) are not happy with how GNOME is developed in openSUSE, a good first step is to join the opensuse-gnome mailing list or #opensuse-gnome channel, and start discussing how to improve things. We're not horrible people hating the world. At least I hope we're not :-)
Cheers,
Vincent
Hi, I can vouch for the opensuse GNOME team not being people hating baby eaters. :) That said, while I have been a long time KDE user and what attracted me to Suse initially was the great KDE, experience, for giggles, I have Factory running on a VM with GNOME, just to see what the experience of Gnome3 is. I have to say first the opensuse GNOME guys do an excellent job there. They are the fussiest in a good way with package submissions and they are very helpful on IRC. As for Gnome3, it *is* different and different is where I think the distaste for the new environment comes from. There are some things and concepts I like in the new Gnome. If someone finds it deficient or has issues, it is best to be specific. General ranting does no one a bit of good. Remember we are a community. While I am not an everyday user of Gnome, I am proud we offer an equally polished and refined KDE or Gnome experience for our users. It is a big selling point for the distribution. Cheers, Peter -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 09/02/2011 04:53 PM, Vincent Untz wrote:
Le vendredi 02 septembre 2011, à 15:44 +0200, Jiri Slaby a écrit :
And we (those running factory of opensuse) were forced to move to gnome 3 unconditionally. Unlike with KDE 3 -> 4 move. Or we might switch to other environment. I chose the latter and won't switch back. I have enough of other work than switching DMs.
I'm sad to hear this. Unfortunately, I don't think it would have been possible to do things differently: there was no way to keep GNOME 2 and GNOME 3 at the same time with our current (read: extremely limited) resources.
Yes, I know that you (is there anybody else doing the maintainership?) have resources to do that. Actually I don't think you are even able to really handle all the reported bugs. So yes, I'm complaining that we were forced to move to G3, but this was rather due to IMO unfinished piece of software called (for whatever reason) Gnome 3.0. thanks, -- js suse labs -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 09/02/2011 04:53 PM, Vincent Untz wrote:
Le vendredi 02 septembre 2011, à 15:44 +0200, Jiri Slaby a écrit :
And we (those running factory of opensuse) were forced to move to gnome 3 unconditionally. Unlike with KDE 3 -> 4 move. Or we might switch to other environment. I chose the latter and won't switch back. I have enough of other work than switching DMs.
I'm sad to hear this. Unfortunately, I don't think it would have been possible to do things differently: there was no way to keep GNOME 2 and GNOME 3 at the same time with our current (read: extremely limited) resources. I'm also interested to hear what's not working for people in the fallback mode compared to a GNOME 2 experience.
If you (general you, not just Jiri) are not happy with how GNOME is developed in openSUSE, a good first step is to join the opensuse-gnome mailing list or #opensuse-gnome channel, and start discussing how to improve things. We're not horrible people hating the world. At least I hope we're not :-)
Cheers,
Vincent
Vincent, no you are absolutely not, I think I know ~70% of the team (read extremely limited). And you are really really fantastic guys, absolutely passionate by there DE. I (KDE guy) send you a lot of encouragement and support in this hard time to get changes accepted by end users. What I can said, is I've try Gnome3 to being able to demo it during exhibition. And really I prefer (400% time) Gnome3 over gnome2. ps : in 3 years you will have users than want gnome2 back, like we saw that in kde :-) -- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch openSUSE Member & Ambassador GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am 03.09.2011 17:36, schrieb Bruno Friedmann:
Vincent, no you are absolutely not, I think I know ~70% of the team (read extremely limited). And you are really really fantastic guys, absolutely passionate by there DE.
I (KDE guy) send you a lot of encouragement and support in this hard time to get changes accepted by end users. What I can said, is I've try Gnome3 to being able to demo it during exhibition. And really I prefer (400% time) Gnome3 over gnome2.
Yep, my full admiration to you guys, although I prefer KDE or GNOME 2 (maybe because I´m used to?) I think you did a great job and make openSUSE to a distro with many faces! -- -o) Kim Leyendecker /\\ openSUSE Ambassador, openSUSE Wiki Team DE _\_v http://www.opensuse.org - Linux for open minds -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Freitag 02 September 2011 15:44:37 Jiri Slaby wrote:
Sorry, but why they pushed that dot-0 crap as a release in the first place?
Because GNOME is a FOSS project which can do whatever it wants and owes you no explanation at all. Or does the GNOME team have any contractual obligation to you?
If it is not ready for users to be tested and to be judged, it shouldn't be released as a major version at all.
What a load of bull.... It's the distributor's responsibility to pick software for its users, not the responsibility of community projects to care about random users who are so clueless that they don't even know what dot-0 releases are.
It was just crap
Your attitude is crap.
And we (those running factory of opensuse) were forced to move to gnome 3 unconditionally. Nobody forced you to use Factory or dist-upgrade. Unless you volunteer to maintain GNOME 2.x, you have no say at all anyway. Factory is not meant to be stable or for end users at all, anyway.
I have enough of other work than switching DMs.
What do display managers have to do with it? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am 03.09.2011 02:37, schrieb Markus Slopianka:
On Freitag 02 September 2011 15:44:37 Jiri Slaby wrote:
Sorry, but why they pushed that dot-0 crap as a release in the first place?
Because GNOME is a FOSS project which can do whatever it wants and owes you no explanation at all. Or does the GNOME team have any contractual obligation to you?
FOSS lives on trust. Of course they are free to do what they like to. That doesn't mean you shouldn't comment on bad moves. That's freedom too and quite sane.
If it is not ready for users to be tested and to be judged, it shouldn't be released as a major version at all.
What a load of bull.... It's the distributor's responsibility to pick software for its users, not the responsibility of community projects to care about random users who are so clueless that they don't even know what dot-0 releases are.
Well he is right. You can only test what you get presented. And if it's broken in several places it's the best thing you can do to tell them it's seriously broken here and there and there. But maybe the tone of the complaint was bad and more details on what exactly bites would also help.
And we (those running factory of opensuse) were forced to move to gnome 3 unconditionally. Nobody forced you to use Factory or dist-upgrade. Unless you volunteer to maintain GNOME 2.x, you have no say at all anyway. Factory is not meant to be stable or for end users at all, anyway.
Yeah and if he didn't test in factory (or even earlier upstream) you'd blame him exactly for that. I know this kind of talk.
I have enough of other work than switching DMs.
What do display managers have to do with it? Gnome brings its own. Probably he meant switching DEs. Sorry, didn't want to disturb your general rant against unhappy end users. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
FOSS lives on trust.
No, FOSS lives on its contributors, not random trolls who do nothing but bitch around (even worse, considering that GNOME 3.x forces nobody to use GNOME Shell as it ships with a GTK3 port of the classic GNOME 2.x desktop/panel)
Well he is right.
No, he's not. Dot-0 releases in community FOSS projects are usually not for end users. Everyone with some slight insight (=the typical Factory tester) knows that. Heck, that's exactly why openSUSE no longer releases dot-0 versions of its distribution.
You can only test what you get presented. And if it's broken in several places it's the best thing you can do to tell them
"They" know exactly what's done and what's left to do. And bitching on oS mailing lists is not telling "them". Filing reports in GNOME's own bug tracker is.
Probably he meant switching DEs. Sorry, didn't want to disturb your general rant against unhappy end users.
I'm not ranting, I'm replying. And Factory is not meant for end users. The release versions are and GNOME 3.0 was never and will never end up in a supported oS release for end users. 12.1 will ship GNOME 3.2. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
No, he's not. Dot-0 releases in community FOSS projects are usually not for end users. Everyone with some slight insight (=the typical Factory tester) knows that. Heck, that's exactly why openSUSE no longer releases dot-0 versions of its distribution.
No. openSUSE really never intended a major/minor scheme and explicitly said so when they agreed on the new thing. Any release after .1 will be as different as can be - not meant to be based upon a common 12 with a major break only after 13 came out.
You can only test what you get presented. And if it's broken in several places it's the best thing you can do to tell them
"They" know exactly what's done and what's left to do.
Them is the distribution.
Probably he meant switching DEs. Sorry, didn't want to disturb your general rant against unhappy end users.
I'm not ranting, I'm replying. And Factory is not meant for end users.
Factory is desperate for testers and the best testers are those who actually use software to get things done. User feedback is invaluable. If end users have the skills and time to cope with factory, great. I love it. You should stop discouraging people from making the final product better just because you don't like their conclusions. Anyway, I don't have the time to feed you any longer. There's work to be done. -- Ralf Lang Linux Consultant / Developer B1 Systems GmbH Osterfeldstraße 7 / 85088 Vohburg / http://www.b1-systems.de GF: Ralph Dehner / Unternehmenssitz: Vohburg / AG: Ingolstadt,HRB 3537 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 03 September 2011 13:35:27 Markus Slopianka wrote:
No, FOSS lives on its contributors, not random trolls
It seems you do not differ between contributor and destructors. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Without judging Gnome 3's usability – since I do not use it – or commenting on a specific author within this thread, it seems to me as it's always the same group of people that tell the same story as soon as there is a (major) change in software they use. Don't get me wrong, constructive criticism is very! useful but their story seems to reflect a general dislike of change and they tend to get very defencive on their habits and what they are used to. Exaggerating and generalising the bugs/errors in the new version and ignoring the shortcomings of the previous version. Using aggressive and vulgar language. Reading comments regarding their hating like "the new version is not as bad as you say" as "the new version is the best and the previous sucks big time". The same arguments like "the devs ignore the users", "it's impossible to work with that piece of software", "the new features are all useless", "people liking the new version are all fanboys" etc. Luckily most people know how and where to put their criticism in a way that actually shapes software rather than de-motivates those developing it. Contributing does not justify aggressiveness. Answering with the same kind of aggressiveness does not help either! So there is always the dilemma of just letting them rant and ignoring them or pointing out that they should just skip their ranting. I guess ignoring would be better but it's hard to see people exaggerating to such a degree and not telling them to stop. So if people could maybe just try to not use aggressive or vulgar language it would automatically help to keep the conversation more constructive. Or to put it differently. If you say something in a nice way it tends to be more constructive. :) I would even take the risk to ask admins to put a paragraph into the netiquette that clearly states that whoever uses aggressive or vulgar language will be banned. It's really not necessary to use things like STFU, crap, ass etc. to express your opinion. If you feel like using those words you know that you are doing something wrong! And please don't get defencive on this matter and try to tell me anything about free speech – it's one thing what you are allowed to and another what educated people stick to and agree on within a community. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 03 September 2011 15:31:21 Sven Burmeister wrote:
Don't get me wrong, constructive criticism is very! useful but their story seems to reflect a general dislike of change and they tend to get very defencive on their habits and what they are used to.
You are wrong. Talking for me, I always support any change towards good. For example I very much liked Windows 95 after Windows 3.1 and Windows 2000 after Windows 95.
Luckily most people know how and where to put their criticism in a way that actually shapes software rather than de-motivates those developing it.
It would be very much desirable if we could demotivate those who destruct major software projects. Unfortunately it is impossible. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Luckily most people know how and where to put their criticism in a way that actually shapes software rather than de-motivates those developing it. It would be very much desirable if we could demotivate those who destruct major software projects. Unfortunately it is impossible.
That's funny :D On a more serious note, you have to look at the bright side of things. While it is a major inconvenience for many to deal with the changes in GNOME3, and as I, a good number of people choose not to deal with the changes and switch to a different DE, there are innovations in GNOME3 which will be attractive to a group of users. Further, I'd say, for users mostly using a browser and a few other programs now and then, GNOME3 might improve their desktop experience. Of course a good number of those people could happily live with Chromebooks as well. In the end the GNOME community decided that this is the way they see the future of the DE. This works for some, and not for others, and that part is exactly the same as it was before. GNOME2 work for some and not for others. It is great that we have maintainers in the openSUSE project that provide choices other than the two major desktops that are integrated very well, Xfce, LXDE.... Robert -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU SUSE-IBM Software Integration Center LINUX Tech Lead rjschwei@suse.com rschweik@ca.ibm.com 781-464-8147 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 03 September 2011 16:17:49 Robert Schweikert wrote:
On a more serious note, you have to look at the bright side of things. While it is a major inconvenience for many to deal with the changes in GNOME3, and as I, a good number of people choose not to deal with the changes and switch to a different DE, there are innovations in GNOME3 which will be attractive to a group of users.
There in nothing bad in introducing the G-Shell. What is bad is destructing Gnome.
Further, I'd say, for users mostly using a browser and a few other programs now and then, GNOME3 might improve their desktop experience.
If it is able to improve desktop experience for someone, I doubt you outlined the group correctly. There was nothing difficult with using browser in Gnome 2.
Of course a good number of those people could happily live with Chromebooks as well.
In the end the GNOME community decided that this is the way they see the future of the DE. This works for some,
The minority.
and not for others,
The majority.
and that part is exactly the same as it was before.
Untrue.
GNOME2 work for some and not for others. It is great that we have maintainers in the openSUSE project that provide choices other than the two major desktops that are integrated very well, Xfce, LXDE....
I think the choice insufficient now. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Samstag, 3. September 2011, 13:31:21 schrieb Sven Burmeister:
So if people could maybe just try to not use aggressive or vulgar language it would automatically help to keep the conversation more constructive. Or to put it differently. If you say something in a nice way it tends to be more constructive. :)
At least there's increased chance that people actually do think about it before rejecting (or maybe afterwards, which still is useful). I'll try harder next time. -- Ralf Lang Linux Consultant / Developer B1 Systems GmbH Osterfeldstraße 7 / 85088 Vohburg / http://www.b1-systems.de GF: Ralph Dehner / Unternehmenssitz: Vohburg / AG: Ingolstadt,HRB 3537 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 09/03/2011 05:35 AM, Markus Slopianka wrote:
FOSS lives on trust. No, FOSS lives on its contributors, not random trolls who do nothing but bitch around (even worse, considering that GNOME 3.x forces nobody to use GNOME Shell as it ships with a GTK3 port of the classic GNOME 2.x desktop/panel)
Well he is right. No, he's not. Dot-0 releases in community FOSS projects are usually not for end users. Everyone with some slight insight (=the typical Factory tester) knows that. Heck, that's exactly why openSUSE no longer releases dot-0 versions of its distribution.
I do not think this claim is correct. If I remember correctly from the thread when we discussed the numbering of openSUSE releases, the drop of dot-0 had nothing to do with "dot-0 is perceived to be unstable". Numbering was chosen such that dot-1 is always in November. Later, Robert -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU SUSE-IBM Software Integration Center LINUX Tech Lead rjschwei@suse.com rschweik@ca.ibm.com 781-464-8147 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am 03.09.2011 11:35, schrieb Markus Slopianka:
FOSS lives on trust. No, FOSS lives on its contributors, not random trolls who do nothing but bitch around (even worse, considering that GNOME 3.x forces nobody to use GNOME Shell as it ships with a GTK3 port of the classic GNOME 2.x desktop/panel)
Well he is right. No, he's not. Dot-0 releases in community FOSS projects are usually not for end users.
What´s with Firefox 4.0? What´s with Thunderbird 5.0? And Linux 3.0 was also a dot-0 release and *was* for end users. Stop such _moronic_ arguments.
Everyone with some slight insight (=the typical Factory tester) knows that.
Well, see above.
Heck, that's exactly why openSUSE no longer releases dot-0 versions of its distribution.
Nope. Totally wrong. openSUSE no longer releases dot-0 versions because these versions get more PR then the others.
You can only test what you get presented. And if it's broken in several places it's the best thing you can do to tell them "They" know exactly what's done and what's left to do. And bitching on oS mailing lists is not telling "them". Filing reports in GNOME's own bug tracker is.
To the first: Who´s bitching here? ;-) To the second: Yes, he probably should.
Probably he meant switching DEs. Sorry, didn't want to disturb your general rant against unhappy end users. I'm not ranting, I'm replying.
Nope. You´re ranting.
And Factory is not meant for end users. The release versions are and GNOME 3.0 was never and will never end up in a supported oS release for end users. 12.1 will ship GNOME 3.2.
-- -o) Kim Leyendecker /\\ openSUSE Ambassador, openSUSE Wiki Team DE _\_v http://www.opensuse.org - Linux for open minds -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Samstag 03 September 2011 14:40:11 Kim Leyendecker wrote:
What´s with Firefox 4.0? What´s with Thunderbird 5.0?
Mozilla has adopted a completely different versioning scheme for their products. Mozilla no longer releases minor versions.
And Linux 3.0 was also a dot-0 release
No, it was not. It was a rebranded 2.6.x release for the simple reason Linus Torvalds liked that number better. It had none of the characteristics of a traditional major software release: It didn't break compatibility, it didn't feature a major rewrite of core parts, etc.
and *was* for end users. The Linux community (just like most other FOSS communities) does no releases targeted at end users. Distributors do that.
Stop such _moronic_ arguments.
You are citing exceptions as the norm. From Apache httpd 2.0.0, to GNOME 2.0, to Linux 2.6.0, to Mac OS X 10.0.0, to Windows 6.0 (Vista) the IT world is filled with not fully matured software releases as x.0. In the latter two examples those were even sold to customers. (BTW: People who cant even use the "Repy to list" feature, should not call other people's arguments as moronic.) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am 03.09.2011 15:29, schrieb Markus Slopianka:
On Samstag 03 September 2011 14:40:11 Kim Leyendecker wrote:
What´s with Firefox 4.0? What´s with Thunderbird 5.0? Mozilla has adopted a completely different versioning scheme for their products. Mozilla no longer releases minor versions.
openSUSE too and give it as an example.
And Linux 3.0 was also a dot-0 release No, it was not. It was a rebranded 2.6.x release for the simple reason Linus Torvalds liked that number better. It had none of the characteristics of a traditional major software release: It didn't break compatibility, it didn't feature a major rewrite of core parts, etc.
Nevertheless, it was released as Linux *3.0* so, it´s a major release, even without the typical characteristics.
and*was* for end users. The Linux community (just like most other FOSS communities) does no releases targeted at end users. Distributors do that.
Well, okay, I was wrong, point for you.
Stop such_moronic_ arguments. You are citing exceptions as the norm.
I could say the same about you. And quite frankly, you should except that every release that is pushed out to the crowd should work (I don´t mean now bugs, that would be impossible. I mean that it works, and that people don´t feel like Jiri.)
From Apache httpd 2.0.0, to GNOME 2.0, to Linux 2.6.0, to Mac OS X 10.0.0, to Windows 6.0 (Vista) the IT world is filled with not fully matured software releases as x.0. In the latter two examples those were even sold to customers.
(BTW: People who cant even use the "Repy to list" feature, should not call other people's arguments as moronic.)
Okay, you might not know, so I will tell you: Sometimes I answer to the the list and get something back like: posting to list denied to wtf´s reason... I don´t know. So, I normaly try to answer both the list and the person to which post I reply. That´s why I did it. And people, who don´t know the circumstances of others shouldn´t blame their methods ;-) thanks, -- -o) Kim Leyendecker /\\ openSUSE Ambassador, openSUSE Wiki Team DE _\_v http://www.opensuse.org - Linux for open minds -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 09/03/2011 02:37 AM, Markus Slopianka wrote:
On Freitag 02 September 2011 15:44:37 Jiri Slaby wrote:
Sorry, but why they pushed that dot-0 crap as a release in the first place?
Because GNOME is a FOSS project which can do whatever it wants and owes you no explanation at all. Or does the GNOME team have any contractual obligation to you?
Heh, nice trolling. But it won't change anything on what I wrote. -- js suse labs -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Heh, nice trolling. But it won't change anything on what I wrote. Then maintain GNOME 2.x packages yourself or STFU. Embarrassing how someone working for SUSE has so little clue about FOSS community projects... Every single line you wrote was just wrong. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 09/03/2011 01:03 PM, Markus Slopianka wrote:
Every single line you wrote was just wrong.
I wrote GNOME 3.0 was crap. You wrote that dot-0 releases in FOSS are crap (note I call crap unusable things), right? Logically, since you wrote above I'm wrong, you are wrong too then. And I love to be wrong if this helps others. -- js suse labs -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Samstag 03 September 2011 13:15:18 Jiri Slaby wrote:
On 09/03/2011 01:03 PM, Markus Slopianka wrote:
Every single line you wrote was just wrong.
I wrote GNOME 3.0 was crap. You wrote that dot-0 releases in FOSS are crap (note I call crap unusable things), right? Logically, since you wrote above I'm wrong, you are wrong too then. And I love to be wrong if this helps others.
I never wrote that dot-0 releases are crap (the only thing I called crap was your attitude and that assessment hasn't changed). Dot-0 releases are dot-0 releases. Plain and simple. And everyone with some clue knows what to expect from dot-0 releases. Compared to GNOME 2.0 back then, 3.0 is very polished and with 3.2 just around the corner, the GNOME 3 is maturing. I'm sure the GNOME team would be pleased to accept your contributions to GNOME 3's Fallback Mode (=classic GUI). You can also open an openFATE entry and let people vote whether Fallback Mode should be default for GNOME 3 in openSUSE (similar to what Linux Mint is doing). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am 03.09.2011 14:04, schrieb Markus Slopianka:
I never wrote that dot-0 releases are crap (the only thing I called crap was your attitude and that assessment hasn't changed). Dot-0 releases are dot-0 releases. Plain and simple. And everyone with some clue knows what to expect from dot-0 releases.
No! For bugfinding and -fixing are the beta releases. And: If you release something as a stable version, it should be stable. Did the GNOME folks said, that GNOME 3.0 is like KDE 4.0? And even if, it doesn´t came out to the crowd. Seriously, you should expect from a *stable* release that it _is_ *stable*. GNOME 3.0 was released as stable, so I´m expecting that it´s stable. If we would talk about GNOME 3.1.x I could understood your POV. But from a stable release POV, you´re just wrong and it becoming really ridiculous that you´re still thinking you´re right. Sorry, I really don´t wanted to rant this weekend, but you let me no choice. -- -o) Kim Leyendecker /\\ openSUSE Ambassador, openSUSE Wiki Team DE _\_v http://www.opensuse.org - Linux for open minds -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Samstag 03 September 2011 14:51:53 Kim Leyendecker wrote:
Seriously, you should expect from a *stable* release that it _is_ *stable*. GNOME 3.0 was released as stable, so I´m expecting that it´s stable.
GNOME 3.0 never crashed for me. So it's stable. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am 03.09.2011 15:15, schrieb Markus Slopianka:
On Samstag 03 September 2011 14:51:53 Kim Leyendecker wrote:
Seriously, you should expect from a*stable* release that it_is_ *stable*. GNOME 3.0 was released as stable, so I´m expecting that it´s stable. GNOME 3.0 never crashed for me. So it's stable.
okay, maybe I used the term "stable" wrong. I more meant something matured and sane... sorry if I confused you. thanks, -- -o) Kim Leyendecker /\\ openSUSE Ambassador, openSUSE Wiki Team DE _\_v http://www.opensuse.org - Linux for open minds -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am 03.09.2011 13:03, schrieb Markus Slopianka:
Heh, nice trolling. But it won't change anything on what I wrote. Then maintain GNOME 2.x packages yourself or STFU.
Oh is this the spirit? Just don´t accept criticism and tell people "use it or do it better, but don´t blame us?" In which insane world you´re living?
Embarrassing how someone working for SUSE has so little clue about FOSS community projects... Every single line you wrote was just wrong.
I just give a +1 to Jiri´s post. You´re both wrong. Is that what you want to hear? -- -o) Kim Leyendecker /\\ openSUSE Ambassador, openSUSE Wiki Team DE _\_v http://www.opensuse.org - Linux for open minds -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 09/02/2011 03:57 AM, Markus Slopianka wrote:
On Freitag 02 September 2011 05:11:24 Ilya Chernykh wrote:
I wonder why the creators of Gnome 3 did not conduct similar polls before. Because only retards judge a whole software generation on its dot-0 release. GNOME 3.2 is just around the corner with many improvements. 3.4 in ~7 months will have even more improvements, and so on...
huh? It is what it is. It is not yet what it will be. Why so sensitive about the criticism.. Personally I find GNOME 3 to be quite awkward. It pushed me to try Xfce for the first time, which I like. I'm mostly a KDE guy anyway. But I suspect that i'll get more used to GNOME 3 in the coming years. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi, Squeel and cry as much as you want, but GNOME3 previews have been around since 2009 on most distributions, easy to check by the changelogs of the gnome-shell package. So, if people failed to make GNOME devs ear their voices when it was possible to change things, thats your own problem, deal with it. Now it's too late, I praise to the GNOME Foundation and Red Hat to keep up the current development model of GNOME which within time will become far more user friendly. NM 2011/9/2 Ilya Chernykh <anixxsus@gmail.com>:
This is a Gnome 3 poll with a large number of participants.
It seems the overwhelming majority does not like Gnome 3. I wonder why the creators of Gnome 3 did not conduct similar polls before. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-- Nelson Marques /* http://www.marques.so nmo.marques@gmail.com */ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Freitag, 2. September 2011, 21:22:54 schrieb Nelson Marques:
Hi,
Squeel and cry as much as you want, but GNOME3 previews have been around since 2009 on most distributions, easy to check by the changelogs of the gnome-shell package. So, if people failed to make GNOME devs ear their voices when it was possible to change things, thats your own problem, deal with it. Now it's too late, I praise to the GNOME Foundation and Red Hat to keep up the current development model of GNOME which within time will become far more user friendly.
Well, I'm not affected by gnome copying one of the not-so-smart moves of KDE. Still, I don't think it's a good idea to throw a major release at users when there is only hope that "some day within time" it might be a stable thing again or maybe even something useful. This is what really annoys people: Not if a button here and there has changed but if things just don't work anymore. I can understand them. Still, this poll is ridiculous as evidence and even if it was a serious thing, I doubt the gnome team would be much impressed. -- Ralf Lang Linux Consultant / Developer B1 Systems GmbH Osterfeldstraße 7 / 85088 Vohburg / http://www.b1-systems.de GF: Ralph Dehner / Unternehmenssitz: Vohburg / AG: Ingolstadt,HRB 3537 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
participants (15)
-
Basil Chupin -
Bruno Friedmann -
Hans Witvliet -
Ilya Chernykh -
Jiri Slaby -
John McInnes -
Kim Leyendecker -
Markus Slopianka -
Nelson Marques -
Peter Linnell -
Ralf Lang -
Robert Schweikert -
Roger Luedecke -
Sven Burmeister -
Vincent Untz