[opensuse-factory] documenting new behaviors
Hello, The recent threads makes me think Linux is changing very fast and very much (kde3->kde4, new automatic X without SaX2...). This is probably a good thing. However I think it's not enough documented. It's now time to enhance this, as we are to start a new distro (11.3??) any group having to change heavbily shoyld warn the user early and eventually ask for help to document the change. For example, sax2, of better said X. when the change was done from XFree to xorg, I dont really remamber warnings, but there where little changes. It was still possible to add some modelines on displays not working as default. now xorg.conf is completely desapearing, so what can we do in case of problem. An experienced Linux user (as I am, being SuSE from more than 10 years now), unable to make a box work in front of a new user is a very bad advertisement. so we should have a "migration white note", describing what the old tools did that is no more usefull and what can be done now and this is better done with a simple script with the old tool name displaying this doc *inside the new distro*, because this come often when one have no network. other ewample: In kde3 you had stick icons (icons the same in all desktop), to have this in kde4 do... (I don't know yet the answer) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://valerie.dodin.org http://news.opensuse.org/2009/04/13/people-of-opensuse-jean-daniel-dodin/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
2009/12/2 jdd <jdd@dodin.org>:
This is probably a good thing. However I think it's not enough documented.
It's now time to enhance this, as we are to start a new distro (11.3??)
any group having to change heavbily shoyld warn the user early and eventually ask for help to document the change.
For example, sax2, of better said X.
when the change was done from XFree to xorg, I dont really remamber warnings, but there where little changes. It was still possible to add some modelines on displays not working as default.
now xorg.conf is completely desapearing, so what can we do in case of problem.
An experienced Linux user (as I am, being SuSE from more than 10 years now), unable to make a box work in front of a new user is a very bad advertisement.
so we should have a "migration white note", describing what the old tools did that is no more usefull and what can be done now
file:///usr/share/doc/release-notes/openSUSE/RELEASE-NOTES.en.html#04 Some explanation was given, I certainly was reminded of it by info provided 11.2 RC's & Final. Probably (I guess this is meant to be best in Wiki) some notes ought to be available as we go along, so stumbling blocks aren't forgotten. But I find in past Wiki rather hard to work with, which might be improved now, may be we could "Pastebin" some notes together and add them to a thread? Rob -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 02/12/2009 10:59, Rob OpenSuSE a écrit :
Some explanation was given, I certainly was reminded of it by info provided 11.2 RC's & Final.
Probably (I guess this is meant to be best in Wiki) some notes ought to be available as we go along, so stumbling blocks aren't forgotten. But I find in past Wiki rather hard to work with, which might be improved now, may be we could "Pastebin" some notes together and add them to a thread?
release notes are great, but very short and somewhat cryptic. we should have more practical infos, as I said replacing a programm by some info is easy, fast and usefull. just an example: openSUSE choosed to use wodim in place of cdrecord (I don't mind here to know if it's good or not). It's possible to say in release notes: "use wodim now, there is not more cdrecord". Thats good, but how many people (even in the one who read the release notes) will remember this next time it want to burn a cd? we can: * make cdrecord a link to wodim. May work (not sure, wodim options are not exactly the cdrecord ones), but don't teach anything and at somemoment the link will be dropped. * better: make cdrecord a link to a bash script: echo "cdrecord was dropped, now use wodim" wodim --help this is a real help. jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://valerie.dodin.org http://news.opensuse.org/2009/04/13/people-of-opensuse-jean-daniel-dodin/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
2009/12/2 jdd <jdd@dodin.org>:
Le 02/12/2009 10:59, Rob OpenSuSE a écrit :
Some explanation was given, I certainly was reminded of it by info provided 11.2 RC's & Final.
Probably (I guess this is meant to be best in Wiki) some notes ought to be available as we go along, so stumbling blocks aren't forgotten. But I find in past Wiki rather hard to work with, which might be improved now, may be we could "Pastebin" some notes together and add them to a thread?
release notes are great, but very short and somewhat cryptic.
we should have more practical infos, as I said replacing a programm by some info is easy, fast and usefull.
just an example: openSUSE choosed to use wodim in place of cdrecord (I don't mind here to know if it's good or not). It's possible to say in release notes: "use wodim now, there is not more cdrecord". Thats good, but how many people (even in the one who read the release notes) will remember this next time it want to burn a cd?
That was in the release notes when they did that to. They should not be any longer than they are, because they are a starting point, re-reading the info published they are very clear, though probably sax2 should have been the 3rd option, not the 2nd. Most ppl will simply use K3b or similar tool; and if you use scripts then making commands & command options configurable is quite simple. Perhaps you could cook up an extension to cnf, to recommend "alternatives"? ladm@fir:~> cnf cdrecord Program 'cdrecord' is present in package 'cdrkit-cdrtools-compat', which is installed on your system. Absolute path to 'cdrecord' is '/usr/bin/cdrecord'. Please check your $PATH variable to see whether it contains the mentioned path. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi, On Wednesday 02 December 2009 jdd wrote:
[...] release notes are great, but very short and somewhat cryptic.
we should have more practical infos, as I said replacing a programm by some info is easy, fast and usefull. [...]
Some changes are documented in the section "Software Changes from Version to Version" in chapter "Upgrading the System and System Changes" in the official openSUSE documentation. http://www.novell.com/documentation/opensuse112/book_opensuse_reference/?pag... It lists changes the has been made between different version. Although some parts might be incomplete, it might be useful to some. :) Tom -- Thomas Schraitle ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX GmbH >o) Documentation Specialist Maxfeldstrasse 5 /\\ 90409 Nuernberg _\_v http://en.opensuse.org/Documentation_Team http://lizards.opensuse.org/author/thomas-schraitle/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
2009/12/2 Thomas Schraitle <thomas.schraitle@suse.de>:
Some changes are documented in the section "Software Changes from Version to Version" in chapter "Upgrading the System and System Changes" in the official openSUSE documentation.
http://www.novell.com/documentation/opensuse112/book_opensuse_reference/?pag...
It lists changes the has been made between different version. Although some parts might be incomplete, it might be useful to some. :)
This one is currently useless for someone wanting to know about 11.1 -> 11.2 it just refers to the general Bug page http://en.opensuse.org/Bugs The links on the Documentation download page at Novell.com referred by openSUSE.org also seem to be patly referring to wrong out of date links. Rob -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi, On Wednesday 02 December 2009 Rob OpenSuSE wrote:
2009/12/2 Thomas Schraitle <thomas.schraitle@suse.de>:
Some changes are documented in the section "Software Changes from Version to Version" in chapter "Upgrading the System and System Changes" in the official openSUSE documentation. [...]
This one is currently useless for someone wanting to know about 11.1 -> 11.2 it just refers to the general Bug page http://en.opensuse.org/Bugs
I know, but the principle still applies. :)
[...]
Tom -- Thomas Schraitle ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX GmbH >o) Documentation Specialist Maxfeldstrasse 5 /\\ 90409 Nuernberg _\_v http://en.opensuse.org/Documentation_Team http://lizards.opensuse.org/author/thomas-schraitle/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Rob OpenSuSE <rob.opensuse.linux@googlemail.com> writes:
2009/12/2 Thomas Schraitle <thomas.schraitle@suse.de>:
This one is currently useless for someone wanting to know about 11.1 -> 11.2 it just refers to the general Bug page http://en.opensuse.org/Bugs
The links on the Documentation download page at Novell.com referred by openSUSE.org also seem to be patly referring to wrong out of date links.
I'm sorry about this. Often it is just too late to populate the Changes from Version to Version Section before the authoring deadline. Thus everything I'm aware of ends in the release notes (see http://en.opensuse.org/Release_Notes). After GA, I move interesting entries from the release notes to the Section of the Manual that Thomas mentioned. -- Karl Eichwalder R&D / Documentation SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
2009/12/3 Karl Eichwalder <ke@suse.de>:
Rob OpenSuSE <rob.opensuse.linux@googlemail.com> writes:
The links on the Documentation download page at Novell.com referred by openSUSE.org also seem to be patly referring to wrong out of date links.
I'm sorry about this. Often it is just too late to populate the Changes from Version to Version Section before the authoring deadline. Thus everything I'm aware of ends in the release notes (see http://en.opensuse.org/Release_Notes).
After GA, I move interesting entries from the release notes to the Section of the Manual that Thomas mentioned.
Yes, but it's the website that offers the documentation for download that has issues. I initially reported it to project mail list, but it tends to be suse.de ppl who are interested, but the problem is on novell.com which is referred by opensuse.org. If you have docs published for 11.2, it makes sense that the web pages offering their download are accurate, surely they don't have "authoring" deadlines and can be checked & fixed by webmaster? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Rob OpenSuSE <rob.opensuse.linux@googlemail.com> writes:
Yes, but it's the website that offers the documentation for download that has issues. I initially reported it to project mail list, but it tends to be suse.de ppl who are interested, but the problem is on novell.com which is referred by opensuse.org.
If you have docs published for 11.2, it makes sense that the web pages offering their download are accurate, surely they don't have "authoring" deadlines and can be checked & fixed by webmaster?
Besides novell.com/documentation, the openSUSE project should offer download links and descriptions from opensuse.org or a dedicated project server. I think, someone is working on this (but I'm not sure). -- Karl Eichwalder R&D / Documentation SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 11:31:35AM +0100, jdd wrote:
* better: make cdrecord a link to a bash script:
echo "cdrecord was dropped, now use wodim" wodim --help
this is a real help.
Note that this is even done sometimes, try e.g. running 'ntpdate' on your 11.2 (and probably even 11.1) system. P.S.: And sure enough, the info printed there is actually somewhat wrong since the new command does not print the offset adjustment... I've never got around to fixing that. -- Petr "Pasky" Baudis A lot of people have my books on their bookshelves. That's the problem, they need to read them. -- Don Knuth -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, Dec 04, 2009 at 08:54:16AM +0100, Petr Baudis wrote:
On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 11:31:35AM +0100, jdd wrote:
* better: make cdrecord a link to a bash script:
echo "cdrecord was dropped, now use wodim" wodim --help
this is a real help.
Note that this is even done sometimes, try e.g. running 'ntpdate' on your 11.2 (and probably even 11.1) system.
P.S.: And sure enough, the info printed there is actually somewhat wrong since the new command does not print the offset adjustment... I've never got around to fixing that.
I've not found a bug for with ntpdate in the summary. Looks like there is none. Then everything must be ok. ;) If it's not please consider to file one as I'm sure the maintainer of the ntp package doesn't follow this list. Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 11:31:35AM +0100, jdd wrote:
* better: make cdrecord a link to a bash script:
echo "cdrecord was dropped, now use wodim" wodim --help
this is a real help.
This is not only no help but misslieading. cdrecord was not dropped ans wodim is no replacement for cdrecord. wodim is just a buggy variant from a very outdated version of cdrecord. Please document that people should use the original software and make sure that there is no package that overwrites programs from the cdrtools by broken software from the cdrkit bundle. This is the list of programs from the original software: /etc/default /etc/default/cdrecord /etc/default/rscsi /usr/bin/btcflash /usr/bin/cdda2wav /usr/bin/cdrecord /usr/bin/mkisofs /usr/bin/mkhybrid -> mkisofs /usr/bin/devdump /usr/bin/isodump /usr/bin/isoinfo /usr/bin/isovfy /usr/bin/isodebug /usr/bin/readcd /usr/bin/scgcheck /usr/bin/scgskeleton /usr/sbin/rscsi I am not sure for Suse but with other linux distributions, most of them get overwritten by defective software if you later install wodim/cdrkit. Jörg -- EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) joerg.schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 09:59:38AM +0000, Rob OpenSuSE wrote:
2009/12/2 jdd <jdd@dodin.org>:
file:///usr/share/doc/release-notes/openSUSE/RELEASE-NOTES.en.html#04
Some explanation was given, I certainly was reminded of it by info provided 11.2 RC's & Final.
I understood jdd's request going beyond that. He was asking to bring print out the notes when someone is trying to use the old tool.
Probably (I guess this is meant to be best in Wiki) some notes ought to be available as we go along, so stumbling blocks aren't forgotten. But I find in past Wiki rather hard to work with, which might be improved now, may be we could "Pastebin" some notes together and add them to a thread?
We are working on a new wiki structure so stuff should be easier to find in the future. I still consider a wiki the better tool for that. 'pastebins' are for rapid exchange of larger blocks of information you only need very temporarily. Cheers, Egbert. -- Egbert Eich (Res. & Dev.) SUSE LINUX Products GmbH X Window System Development Tel: 0911-740 53 0 http://www.suse.de ----------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 02/12/2009 11:58, Egbert Eich a écrit :
I still consider a wiki the better tool for that.
it needs to be in the wiki, of course, but I can't set it as I don't know the answer :-( (and beleive me, I have wrote many page in the wiki :-) but when you are debugging, you often have no network and so no wiki (and in the case I had not even graphical screen) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://valerie.dodin.org http://news.opensuse.org/2009/04/13/people-of-opensuse-jean-daniel-dodin/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 12:19:15PM +0100, jdd wrote:
Le 02/12/2009 11:58, Egbert Eich a écrit :
but when you are debugging, you often have no network and so no wiki (and in the case I had not even graphical screen)
Yup, been there, too ;) Cheers, Egbert. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 02/12/09 08:19, jdd wrote: i
(and in the case I had not even graphical screen)
There is no need for a running X session to read a website, just use "links" :-D -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 02/12/2009 13:45, Cristian Rodríguez a écrit :
On 02/12/09 08:19, jdd wrote: i
(and in the case I had not even graphical screen)
There is no need for a running X session to read a website, just use "links" :-D
did you try to read the wiki with links or w3m? I did :-((( jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://valerie.dodin.org http://news.opensuse.org/2009/04/13/people-of-opensuse-jean-daniel-dodin/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
2009/12/2 Egbert Eich <eich@suse.de>:
We are working on a new wiki structure so stuff should be easier to find in the future. I still consider a wiki the better tool for that. 'pastebins' are for rapid exchange of larger blocks of information you only need very temporarily.
It is not only finding stuff in the Wiki, but actually a problem of content creation. I tried to do Wiki and gave up, finding it far too annoying. If the Wiki is not FAR easier to edit, than it was when I last tried, then I WILL NOT do it. Perhaps Wiki enthusiasts could import from a text email based resource, and I had pastebins in mind for that purpose. Rob -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 02 December 2009 05:43:03 Rob OpenSuSE wrote:
Perhaps Wiki enthusiasts could import from a text email based resource, and I had pastebins in mind for that purpose.
You can do that too and leave note on opensuse-wiki@opensuse.org so that wiki enthusiast can help you formatting article. The basic wiki markup that will enable you to create almost any kind of text based article is easy. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Titles: == section title == #It corresponds to <H2> html === subsection title === #It corresponds to <H3> html <H1> is reserved for article title and it is set automatically. Lists: *Item 1 *Item 2 **Item 2, subitem 1 **Item 2, subitem 2 *Item 3 Links: Normal http://en.opensuse.org/ will be set as a link automatically, but if it is very ling link like bugzilla tend to be then use single square brackets, make one space after the link and give short name. Like: [http://bugzilla.novell.com/very/long/link Short name] If you want to refer/link to another wiki page then [[article name]] will do that for you, but even if you use http://en.opensuse.org/Article_name it will work fine. General: Don't live space as a first character in a line, it will show the rest of the line in a fixed font. But if you want to show script then use tag <pre> for preformatted text, like: <pre> fixed font script commands </pre> To start new paragraph just make one line space between them. -------------------------------------------------------------------- For the rest: http://en.opensuse.org/Help:Wiki_Reference_card and the mentioned wiki mail list. We like to have more wiki contributors, and we are willing to help authors to achieve their goal, but we can't collect and write information. That would be way beyond time we have. For that purpose we are trying to create templates that people can just copy and paste into new article. Even without templates it is simple to run trough article that is already written in plain text with section titles and paragraphs and add formatting tags, but it is not collecting information, writing article, and formatting. -- Regards Rajko, -->> openSUSE Wiki Team: http://en.opensuse.org/Wiki_Team <<-- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 09:47:01AM +0100, jdd wrote:
now xorg.conf is completely desapearing, so what can we do in case of problem.
Sorry for bringing this up slightly off topic but this is not true: You can still have an xorg.conf if you need to (in case you have strange hardware or need to guarantee that a certain mode appears). The file is just optional. If you really need one you can use SaX2 as long as it exists or you can generate one by hand: 'Xorg -configure' still works and will generate you a file you can use as a base. This file may not always be correct but you can use it as a base to modify it to your needs with an editor. This is not what you want to let your grandma do but I just mention it here as a way the power user can create a config for .special needs'.
An experienced Linux user (as I am, being SuSE from more than 10 years now), unable to make a box work in front of a new user is a very bad advertisement.
so we should have a "migration white note", describing what the old tools did that is no more usefull and what can be done now
and this is better done with a simple script with the old tool name displaying this doc *inside the new distro*, because this come often when one have no network.
Yes, I agree. There are a lot of useful things which can be done to make life easier when migrating to new technologies. But who do you ask to do this? The few people at Novell still left to do openSUSE? There is only so much those people can do. If people feel that this is badly needed there is nothing that stops them from stepping up and doing it. It's the beauty of free software that you can do it and openSUSE is completely open so you can do it in there. Cheers, Egbert. -- Egbert Eich (Res. & Dev.) SUSE LINUX Products GmbH X Window System Development Tel: 0911-740 53 0 http://www.suse.de ----------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 09:47:01AM +0100, jdd wrote:
The recent threads makes me think Linux is changing very fast and very much (kde3->kde4, new automatic X without SaX2...).
This is probably a good thing. However I think it's not enough documented.
It's now time to enhance this, as we are to start a new distro (11.3??)
Write an article in the wiki. That's why all the en,de,.*.openSUSE.org are there and have the login option. Create a user and start. We have for each release version a "Most Annoying Bugs" page like http://en.opensuse.org/Bugs:Most_Annoying_Bugs_11.2 We might add something like "Biggest Difference to the previous Release" and might add a pointer to the YaST summary page at the end of the Upgrade process. As Egbert wrote: a discussion will not revert Novell's descission regarding the future of sax. But today we have all the infrastructure available to the public which makes it possible to pick it up easily. [ 8< ]
so we should have a "migration white note", describing what the old tools did that is no more usefull and what can be done now
Ack. Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
2009/12/2 Lars Müller <lmuelle@suse.de>:
On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 09:47:01AM +0100, jdd wrote:
Write an article in the wiki. That's why all the en,de,.*.openSUSE.org are there and have the login option. Create a user and start.
Tried to do Wiki in past... just could not get on with it. Has it been made simpler in last year? Rob -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 11:19:38AM +0000, Rob OpenSuSE wrote:
2009/12/2 Lars Müller <lmuelle@suse.de>:
On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 09:47:01AM +0100, jdd wrote:
Write an article in the wiki. That's why all the en,de,.*.openSUSE.org are there and have the login option. Create a user and start.
Tried to do Wiki in past... just could not get on with it. Has it been made simpler in last year?
I consider it ok. It uses the well known MediaWiki software which is used by Wikipedia too. And therefore there is a bunch of documentation and howtos available. It's not like working in a local editor but it's working very well to get stuff published in a reasonable time. Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
2009/12/2 Lars Müller <lmuelle@suse.de>:
On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 11:19:38AM +0000, Rob OpenSuSE wrote:
2009/12/2 Lars Müller <lmuelle@suse.de>:
On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 09:47:01AM +0100, jdd wrote:
Write an article in the wiki. That's why all the en,de,.*.openSUSE.org are there and have the login option. Create a user and start.
Tried to do Wiki in past... just could not get on with it. Has it been made simpler in last year?
I consider it ok. It uses the well known MediaWiki software which is used by Wikipedia too. And therefore there is a bunch of documentation and howtos available.
This is the Wikipedia who have large loss of Editors, and articles about people being annoyed having spent many hours time on learning the fiddly formatting, submitting an article only to find someone deleted it a little later? Has it been made simpler since a year ago? There was a thread then, about learning "Wiki" being time consuming for hard pressed volunteer testers. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
This is the Wikipedia who have large loss of Editors, and articles about people being annoyed having spent many hours time on learning the fiddly formatting, submitting an article only to find someone deleted it a little later?
This is a political problem on Wikipedia that has virtually zero to do with teh Wiki syntax or editing tools. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 11:47:23 +0000 Rob OpenSuSE <rob.opensuse.linux@googlemail.com> wrote:
Has it been made simpler since a year ago? There was a thread then, about learning "Wiki" being time consuming for hard pressed volunteer testers.
There is also an openSUSE Wiki team. If you have good content, just paste it as plain text into the wiki and ask around, you will find volunteers who will help with formatting etc. If the content is crap, somebody of course might just delete it, rightfully so ;-) -- Stefan Seyfried "Any ideas, John?" "Well, surrounding them's out." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
2009/12/2 Clayton <smaug42@gmail.com>:
This is the Wikipedia who have large loss of Editors, and articles about people being annoyed having spent many hours time on learning the fiddly formatting, submitting an article only to find someone deleted it a little later?
This is a political problem on Wikipedia that has virtually zero to do with teh Wiki syntax or editing tools.
No it's a fundamental problem with Wiki's; someone else can re-write history, so it's often not seeingly a very useful format for the information I'm interested in. Often that is best done by "dumps" of logs and stuff that Google finds. In general for problems or answering forum questions, Google finds mail list stuff; possibly other distro's have more transparency than we do. Lots of ppl do articles on openSUSE.org and there's a problem figuring out sometimes, when they wrote it, and which releases it's relevant to, with not much to go on sometimes. 2009/12/2 Stefan Seyfried <stefan.seyfried@googlemail.com>:
On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 11:47:23 +0000 Rob OpenSuSE <rob.opensuse.linux@googlemail.com> wrote:
Has it been made simpler since a year ago? There was a thread then, about learning "Wiki" being time consuming for hard pressed volunteer testers.
There is also an openSUSE Wiki team. If you have good content, just paste it as plain text into the wiki and ask around, you will find volunteers who will help with formatting etc.
If the content is crap, somebody of course might just delete it, rightfully so ;-)
What's "crap" to one person, may just be vital detail to someone else. As you can see above, I'd rather have something more permanent and Google-able. Rob -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 02 December 2009 07:34:02 Rob OpenSuSE wrote:
Lots of ppl do articles on openSUSE.org and there's a problem figuring out sometimes, when they wrote it, and which releases it's relevant to, with not much to go on sometimes.
That will change very soon, there is announcement about update: http://en.opensuse.org/Welcome_to_openSUSE.org There will be added few extensions, one of which will help page visitors to see only reviewed versions. There is implementation on Wikibooks http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Main_Page . Note top right "Sighted page", click on +/- and you'll see details. There is another level Quality page, and when you click on link History you can see for every revision is it checked or not, and to what extent. The link http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Special:ReviewedPages gives more pages that are reviewed. The other effort is to make templates to lead authors when they write article. That is still in the very beginning, so ideas how to create them, what types of articles to cover, what style to use are more then welcome. Here is the first draft http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Article_Template . -- Regards Rajko, openSUSE Wiki Team: http://en.opensuse.org/Wiki_Team People of openSUSE: http://en.opensuse.org/People_of_openSUSE/About -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Tried to do Wiki in past... just could not get on with it. Has it been made simpler in last year?
I consider it ok. It uses the well known MediaWiki software which is used by Wikipedia too. And therefore there is a bunch of documentation and howtos available.
It's not like working in a local editor but it's working very well to get stuff published in a reasonable time.
MediaWiki syntax is not hard. You don't even really need to know the Wiki syntax to get your text into the Wiki page. At the top of the edit box there are a few basic buttons that add bold, headings etc. It's pretty obvious what's what within a few mins of editing. If youget some of the formatting syntax wrong, someone else will see it and tidy it up. That's how Wikis work. If you're really finding Wiki syntax that hard to use, then create/edit your document in OpenOffice.org Writer and export as Wiki. You get a plain text file with Wiki markup... you copy paste that text into the Wiki edit window and you're done. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
participants (12)
-
Clayton -
Cristian Rodríguez -
Egbert Eich -
jdd -
Joerg.Schilling＠fokus.fraunhofer.de -
Karl Eichwalder -
Lars Müller -
Petr Baudis -
Rajko M. -
Rob OpenSuSE -
Stefan Seyfried -
Thomas Schraitle