[opensuse-factory] MariaDB as a default MySQL
Hi everybody, as some of you might know, we have two MySQL implementations in openSUSE: * mysql-community-server - MySQL Community Server as provided by Oracle * mariadb - MariaDB from Monty Program We were offering both for a long time, letting users choose and we are still doing that and I don't see that changing in a near future. But one of these variants has to be default and I sent a request to change this default to MariaDB for openSUSE 12.3. What does it mean? ================== Actually, not much. As written on MariaDB web page[1], MariaDB is a binary drop in replacement for MySQL. So from almost all points of view it behaves completely the same. If you will switch, you probably wouldn't even notice. And as we are still providing Oracles MySQL (don't worry, that one will NOT go away, I know some of you really need it), you can decide to stick with it. Switching on server part can be done easily[2], so you can switch there and back as much as you want. So what will actually change? We do provide only one devel package, so everything will be compiled against MariaDB and embedded library will be using MariaDB. But as protocol is still the same, all programs will be able to talk to both MySQL and MariaDB no matter against what they were compiled. And if you wouldn't choose and wouldn't care, you'll end up with MariaDB. If you are using Oracles MySQL and you will update to 12.3, you'll still be using Oracles MySQL after the update. So overall, even though there is a change, you shouldn't notice much difference ;-) Why to switch? ============== MariaDB is getting a lot of attention[3] and frankly I'm using it since 11.4 on my own server so it is even more tested by me. They periodically merge with Oracles MySQL and add some of their own or Perconas or somebody else goodies[4] on top of that. Originally I was sticking to Oracles MySQL as a default to keep it conservative and stable, but over the years MariaDB proved to be stable and lately they were even faster in fixing some security issues (although they might be the guys who found them, so comparison might not be fair). I'm not saying that I'm unhappy with Oracles MySQL, I know that there is plenty of people doing great job at Oracle pushing MySQL forward, but I believe that new default will bring some more goodies to our users without any unpleasant side-effects. And as we believe in choice, you can still choose Oracles MySQL over MariaDB. It's up to you. And as I said before, what is default MySQL actually doesn't mean much in openSUSE ;-) [1] https://kb.askmonty.org/en/mariadb-versus-mysql-compatibility/ [2] http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Switching_between_MySQL_variants [3] http://www.zdnet.com/wikipedia-moving-from-mysql-to-mariadb-7000008912/ [4] https://kb.askmonty.org/en/mariadb-versus-mysql-features/ -- Michal HRUSECKY SUSE LINUX, s.r.o openSUSE Team Lihovarska 1060/12 PGP 0xFED656F6 19000 Praha 9 mhrusecky[at]suse.cz Czech Republic http://michal.hrusecky.net http://www.suse.cz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
I can certainly understand the interest in switching to MariaDB -- though personally I'm not at all convinced 12.3 is the right time/place to do so -- but I am concerned about the assumption that "drop in replacement" really is. That may be a goal, but it most certainly in not 100% true. Starting here, @MariaDB project itslef, https://kb.askmonty.org/en/mariadb-versus-mysql-compatibility/ http://blog.mariadb.org/mariadb-10-0-and-mysql-5-6/ and recognizing that large projects that use MySQL API/libs/engines (e.g., Drupal, PHP, etc) still recognize/experience differences between MySQL and the main forks, making that assumption has real potential to wreak havoc. I'd suggest that if a change of distro default is being made to MariaDB, *and* there is an ongoing commitment to offer an official MySQL pkg in the distro, that the pkg namespaces should be completely & clearly separated, and that -- unless and until 100% compatibility can be guaranteed -- a separate devel pkg , libs & includes, be made available. I haven't yet thought through the differences between MySQL packaging for a integrated-distro-default-switch, vs. as a standalone server ... if any. Michal's packages for MySQL56 (which I use ... ), e.g., have been great/stable for ages. These MariaDB changes percolated quietly into server:database repo, and caught me unaware -- causing some breakage. Michal was great about helping in #irc, and the issues were easily fixed, and this announcement is great to see, but, I think this switch should be done carefully. True, many users won't notice a difference. Otoh, there's real potential to cause trouble, as well. Daryl -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
darx@sent.com - 8:51 19.01.13 wrote:
I can certainly understand the interest in switching to MariaDB -- though personally I'm not at all convinced 12.3 is the right time/place to do so -- but I am concerned about the assumption that "drop in replacement" really is.
That may be a goal, but it most certainly in not 100% true. Starting here, @MariaDB project itslef,
https://kb.askmonty.org/en/mariadb-versus-mysql-compatibility/ http://blog.mariadb.org/mariadb-10-0-and-mysql-5-6/
Yes, there are some differences, otherwise it would be pointless to call it differently. But if you want to hit these, you are having heavily optimized database/application relation and you depend on specific version/configuration of database, so you could hit them anyway, as there are some small incompatibilities even between minor releases.
and recognizing that large projects that use MySQL API/libs/engines (e.g., Drupal, PHP, etc) still recognize/experience differences between MySQL and the main forks, making that assumption has real potential to wreak havoc.
Well, these are using MySQL API, which is the same.
I'd suggest that if a change of distro default is being made to MariaDB, *and* there is an ongoing commitment to offer an official MySQL pkg in the distro, that the pkg namespaces should be completely & clearly separated
They are since 11.3 IIRC
and that -- unless and until 100% compatibility can be guaranteed
That can't be guaranteed even between maintenance updates ;-)
-- a separate devel pkg , libs & includes, be made available.
I was thinking about that, but it would made it more confusing, transitions harder and there would be people in obs building against one and people building against the other one and it will be more messy in general...
I haven't yet thought through the differences between MySQL packaging for a integrated-distro-default-switch, vs. as a standalone server ... if any.
Michal's packages for MySQL56 (which I use ... ), e.g., have been great/stable for ages. These MariaDB changes percolated quietly into server:database repo, and caught me unaware -- causing some breakage.
IIRC it was weird looking library downgrade. btw. MySQL 5.6 is not 100% compatible with MySQL 5.5: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.6/en/upgrading-from-previous-series.html
Michal was great about helping in #irc, and the issues were easily fixed, and this announcement is great to see,
but,
I think this switch should be done carefully. True, many users won't notice a difference. Otoh, there's real potential to cause trouble, as well.
Yes, I know, but we are testing them living together for many openSUSE versions so I believe that most of the issues were polished over the years already. -- Michal HRUSECKY SUSE LINUX, s.r.o openSUSE Team Lihovarska 1060/12 PGP 0xFED656F6 19000 Praha 9 mhrusecky[at]suse.cz Czech Republic http://michal.hrusecky.net http://www.suse.cz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Saturday, January 19, 2013 12:27:31 PM Michal Hrusecky wrote:
Hi everybody,
as some of you might know, we have two MySQL implementations in openSUSE:
* mysql-community-server - MySQL Community Server as provided by Oracle * mariadb - MariaDB from Monty Program
We were offering both for a long time, letting users choose and we are still doing that and I don't see that changing in a near future. But one of these variants has to be default and I sent a request to change this default to MariaDB for openSUSE 12.3.
What does it mean? ==================
Actually, not much. As written on MariaDB web page[1], MariaDB is a binary drop in replacement for MySQL. So from almost all points of view it behaves completely the same. If you will switch, you probably wouldn't even notice. And as we are still providing Oracles MySQL (don't worry, that one will NOT go away, I know some of you really need it), you can decide to stick with it. Switching on server part can be done easily[2], so you can switch there and back as much as you want.
So what will actually change? We do provide only one devel package, so everything will be compiled against MariaDB and embedded library will be using MariaDB. But as protocol is still the same, all programs will be able to talk to both MySQL and MariaDB no matter against what they were compiled. And if you wouldn't choose and wouldn't care, you'll end up with MariaDB. If you are using Oracles MySQL and you will update to 12.3, you'll still be using Oracles MySQL after the update.
So overall, even though there is a change, you shouldn't notice much difference ;-)
Why to switch? ==============
MariaDB is getting a lot of attention[3] and frankly I'm using it since 11.4 on my own server so it is even more tested by me. They periodically merge with Oracles MySQL and add some of their own or Perconas or somebody else goodies[4] on top of that. Originally I was sticking to Oracles MySQL as a default to keep it conservative and stable, but over the years MariaDB proved to be stable and lately they were even faster in fixing some security issues (although they might be the guys who found them, so comparison might not be fair).
I'm not saying that I'm unhappy with Oracles MySQL, I know that there is plenty of people doing great job at Oracle pushing MySQL forward, but I believe that new default will bring some more goodies to our users without any unpleasant side-effects. And as we believe in choice, you can still choose Oracles MySQL over MariaDB. It's up to you. And as I said before, what is default MySQL actually doesn't mean much in openSUSE ;-)
[1] https://kb.askmonty.org/en/mariadb-versus-mysql-compatibility/ [2] http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Switching_between_MySQL_variants [3] http://www.zdnet.com/wikipedia-moving-from-mysql-to-mariadb-7000008912/ [4] https://kb.askmonty.org/en/mariadb-versus-mysql-features/
just read thru some of your information on the change and I must say I'm not totally against them. My question have more to do with management and of the database under MariaDB. I current use: libmysqlclient18-5.5.28-1.4.1.x86_64 mysql-community-server-client-5.5.28-1.4.1.x86_64 mysql-community-server-5.5.28-1.4.1.x86_64 My main question is: Will the following applications still work with the change: phpMyAdmin LibreOffice Amarok Digikam KMyMoney all of these have databases on my localhost version of MySQL.In addition I maintain several Data bases for my Lions Club functions. I have used phpMyAdmin to maintain them. I have also just started test of LibreOffice Base on MySQL. Is there a good howto for migrating this? I presently have a disk with openSUSE 12.1, another with 12.2 and a third will be 12.3 very soon. This is amultiboot system. 12.2 is my production at this time. Thanks for any pointer to other information link. I am not a DBA or programmer but have used Linux for five or six years and worked on computers for 40 years in field engineering, data center management, capacity planning and compurter room design. Russ -- openSUSE 12.2(Linux 3.4.11-2.16-desktop x86_64)| KDE 4.9.5 "release 3"|Intel core2duo 2.5 MHZ,|8GB DDR3|GeForce 8400GS(NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-304.60) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
upscope - 13:58 19.01.13 wrote:
On Saturday, January 19, 2013 12:27:31 PM Michal Hrusecky wrote:
Hi everybody,
as some of you might know, we have two MySQL implementations in openSUSE:
* mysql-community-server - MySQL Community Server as provided by Oracle * mariadb - MariaDB from Monty Program
We were offering both for a long time, letting users choose and we are still doing that and I don't see that changing in a near future. But one of these variants has to be default and I sent a request to change this default to MariaDB for openSUSE 12.3.
What does it mean? ==================
Actually, not much. As written on MariaDB web page[1], MariaDB is a binary drop in replacement for MySQL. So from almost all points of view it behaves completely the same. If you will switch, you probably wouldn't even notice. And as we are still providing Oracles MySQL (don't worry, that one will NOT go away, I know some of you really need it), you can decide to stick with it. Switching on server part can be done easily[2], so you can switch there and back as much as you want.
So what will actually change? We do provide only one devel package, so everything will be compiled against MariaDB and embedded library will be using MariaDB. But as protocol is still the same, all programs will be able to talk to both MySQL and MariaDB no matter against what they were compiled. And if you wouldn't choose and wouldn't care, you'll end up with MariaDB. If you are using Oracles MySQL and you will update to 12.3, you'll still be using Oracles MySQL after the update.
So overall, even though there is a change, you shouldn't notice much difference ;-)
Why to switch? ==============
MariaDB is getting a lot of attention[3] and frankly I'm using it since 11.4 on my own server so it is even more tested by me. They periodically merge with Oracles MySQL and add some of their own or Perconas or somebody else goodies[4] on top of that. Originally I was sticking to Oracles MySQL as a default to keep it conservative and stable, but over the years MariaDB proved to be stable and lately they were even faster in fixing some security issues (although they might be the guys who found them, so comparison might not be fair).
I'm not saying that I'm unhappy with Oracles MySQL, I know that there is plenty of people doing great job at Oracle pushing MySQL forward, but I believe that new default will bring some more goodies to our users without any unpleasant side-effects. And as we believe in choice, you can still choose Oracles MySQL over MariaDB. It's up to you. And as I said before, what is default MySQL actually doesn't mean much in openSUSE ;-)
[1] https://kb.askmonty.org/en/mariadb-versus-mysql-compatibility/ [2] http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Switching_between_MySQL_variants [3] http://www.zdnet.com/wikipedia-moving-from-mysql-to-mariadb-7000008912/ [4] https://kb.askmonty.org/en/mariadb-versus-mysql-features/
just read thru some of your information on the change and I must say I'm not totally against them. My question have more to do with management and of the database under MariaDB. I current use:
libmysqlclient18-5.5.28-1.4.1.x86_64 mysql-community-server-client-5.5.28-1.4.1.x86_64 mysql-community-server-5.5.28-1.4.1.x86_64
My main question is: Will the following applications still work with the change: phpMyAdmin
This one works for sure - tested ;-)
LibreOffice Amarok Digikam KMyMoney
These I don't not use myself, but they should work as expected.
all of these have databases on my localhost version of MySQL.In addition I maintain several Data bases for my Lions Club functions. I have used phpMyAdmin to maintain them. I have also just started test of LibreOffice Base on MySQL.
Is there a good howto for migrating this? I presently have a disk with openSUSE 12.1, another with 12.2 and a third will be 12.3 very soon. This is amultiboot system. 12.2 is my production at this time.
Well, as I wrote before, you can still use mysql-community-server-5.5.x and the only thing that will change is the library you C programs are linked against. Drop-in replacement means that even if you decide to switch to MariaDB, migration should be just as easy as replacing one package with another[2] (actually, there is a little trick and that is the configuration file that you should pay extra attention to). But as with any update (even between same flavor versions), having a backup is recommended and you should test stuff before putting it into production... [2] http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Switching_between_MySQL_variants -- Michal HRUSECKY SUSE LINUX, s.r.o openSUSE Team Lihovarska 1060/12 PGP 0xFED656F6 19000 Praha 9 mhrusecky[at]suse.cz Czech Republic http://michal.hrusecky.net http://www.suse.cz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Michal Hrusecky <mhrusecky@suse.cz> wrote:
We were offering both for a long time, letting users choose and we are still doing that and I don't see that changing in a near future. But one of these variants has to be default and I sent a request to change this default to MariaDB for openSUSE 12.3.
Hi Michal, This change has brought back https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=712749, Amarok fails to start again on current Factory. The versions I have: catalin@opensuse:~> rpm -qa | egrep 'amarok|mysql|maria' | sort amarok-2.7.0-1.1.x86_64 libmysqlclient18-5.5.28a-1.1.x86_64 libmysqld18-5.5.28a-1.1.x86_64 libqt4-sql-mysql-4.8.4-2.1.x86_64 libreoffice-base-drivers-mysql-3.6.3.2.4-1.2.x86_64 mysql-community-server-5.5.29-1.1.x86_64 mysql-community-server-client-5.5.29-1.1.x86_64 mysql-community-server-errormessages-5.5.29-1.1.x86_64 I first tried to install libmysql55client18 which got me libmysql55client18-5.5.29-1.1.x86_64, this didn't help. Then I read the bug more carefully and saw it relates to errormessages, so I installed mariadb-errormessages which got me mariadb-errormessages-5.5.28a-1.1.x86_64. With this Amarok starts and works fine. You probably know better what the proper fix is, Amarok doesn't currently require mysql-community-server-errormessages so maybe it shouldn't require mariadb-errormessages directly but via some other package. Cheers, Catalin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Saturday 26 January 2013 16:23:30 Catalin Iacob wrote:
On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Michal Hrusecky <mhrusecky@suse.cz> wrote:
We were offering both for a long time, letting users choose and we are still doing that and I don't see that changing in a near future. But one of these variants has to be default and I sent a request to change this default to MariaDB for openSUSE 12.3.
Hi Michal,
This change has brought back https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=712749, Amarok fails to start again on current Factory.
The versions I have: catalin@opensuse:~> rpm -qa | egrep 'amarok|mysql|maria' | sort amarok-2.7.0-1.1.x86_64 libmysqlclient18-5.5.28a-1.1.x86_64 libmysqld18-5.5.28a-1.1.x86_64 libqt4-sql-mysql-4.8.4-2.1.x86_64 libreoffice-base-drivers-mysql-3.6.3.2.4-1.2.x86_64 mysql-community-server-5.5.29-1.1.x86_64 mysql-community-server-client-5.5.29-1.1.x86_64 mysql-community-server-errormessages-5.5.29-1.1.x86_64
I first tried to install libmysql55client18 which got me libmysql55client18-5.5.29-1.1.x86_64, this didn't help.
Then I read the bug more carefully and saw it relates to errormessages, so I installed mariadb-errormessages which got me mariadb-errormessages-5.5.28a-1.1.x86_64. With this Amarok starts and works fine.
You probably know better what the proper fix is, Amarok doesn't currently require mysql-community-server-errormessages so maybe it shouldn't require mariadb-errormessages directly but via some other package.
It seems this might be fixed by sr150128 [1], but it wasn't forwarded to factory. [1] https://build.opensuse.org/request/show/150128 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:11 PM, Dmitry Roshchin <dmitry@roshchin.org> wrote:
It seems this might be fixed by sr150128 [1], but it wasn't forwarded to factory.
Indeed Dimitry, thanks for the info. It's forwarded now, I just created https://build.opensuse.org/request/show/150486 for that. Cheers, Catalin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
participants (5)
-
Catalin Iacob -
darx＠sent.com -
Dmitry Roshchin -
Michal Hrusecky -
upscope