[opensuse-factory] Plymouth update: One step further, but graphical session runs on tty1

Raymond Wooninck

15 Feb 2012 15 Feb '12

16:46

Hi Listmates, To give you a little heads up on the plymouth trial and errors. At this moment I managed to get a smooth transistion from plymouth to KDM/GDM. However this has a little side effect, namely that the graphical session is running on TTY1 and no longer on TTY7. GDM works out-of-the-box with this, but KDM would require a small patch. The main question however would be if it would be acceptable to have the change that the graphical session is running on TTY1. Fedora also made this change when they implemented Plymouth, but I am wondering what your opinion is. Another community member (tigerfoot) did a test and found another issue when using encrypted disks. We are trying to sort this one out before preparing an initial package which could be submitted to Factory. Regards Raymond -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

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Claudio Freire

15 Feb 15 Feb

16:51

On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 1:46 PM, Raymond Wooninck wrote:

...

GDM works out-of-the-box with this, but KDM would require a small patch. The main question however would be if it would be acceptable to have the change that the graphical session is running on TTY1. Fedora also made this change when they implemented Plymouth, but I am wondering what your opinion is.

I'm quite accustomed to do ctrl+alt+F1 in order to get a console, almost in every distro, and it usually works. Doing the change would mean breaking that. Although it's not that big of a deal if there's still tty2-9, it's still a nuisance. If you could make it start in tty7 as usual, it would be perfect. If not, make sure the other ttys work, and that starting new graphical sessions also works (ie, from KDE->switch user->start new session). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Raymond Wooninck

17:02

...

I'm quite accustomed to do ctrl+alt+F1 in order to get a console, almost in every distro, and it usually works.

As indicated Fedora also made the change to have the Graphical Session running on tty1.

...

Doing the change would mean breaking that. Although it's not that big of a deal if there's still tty2-9, it's still a nuisance. The default tty's (2-6) are still there and I am sure we can extend them to cover more virtual terminals. There is no change in that

...

If you could make it start in tty7 as usual, it would be perfect. We are looking into this. However at the moment this seems to end up in a text mode boot without plymouth itself.

...

If not, make sure the other ttys work, and that starting new graphical sessions also works (ie, from KDE->switch user->start new session).

I have tested it and this works fine. The second session is created directly besides the active one. So the second session would run on tty2. Raymond -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Claudio Freire

17:41

On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Raymond Wooninck wrote:

...

...
Doing the change would mean breaking that. Although it's not that big of a deal if there's still tty2-9, it's still a nuisance. The default tty's (2-6) are still there and I am sure we can extend them to cover more virtual terminals. There is no change in that

Right now, it's 1-6 for text terminals, 7-9 for graphical sessions, and 10-12 are special ones (kernel messages I believe). If you move 7 to 1, it stands to reason to make it: 1-3 graphical, 4-9 text terminals, 10-12 special. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Felix Miata

17:49

On 2012/02/15 18:02 (GMT+0100) Raymond Wooninck composed:

...

I have tested it and this works fine. The second session is created directly besides the active one. So the second session would run on tty2.

But I log in on ttys 2, 3 & 5 before logging into X. Where would my 2nd X session go? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Ken Schneider - openSUSE

18:49

On 02/15/2012 12:02 PM, Raymond Wooninck pecked at the keyboard and wrote:

...

...
I'm quite accustomed to do ctrl+alt+F1 in order to get a console, almost in every distro, and it usually works.

As indicated Fedora also made the change to have the Graphical Session running on tty1.

Fedora makes a change so everyone has to follow! Sounds like another change for change's sake.

...

...
Doing the change would mean breaking that. Although it's not that big of a deal if there's still tty2-9, it's still a nuisance. The default tty's (2-6) are still there and I am sure we can extend them to cover more virtual terminals. There is no change in that

...
If you could make it start in tty7 as usual, it would be perfect. We are looking into this. However at the moment this seems to end up in a text mode boot without plymouth itself.

...
If not, make sure the other ttys work, and that starting new graphical sessions also works (ie, from KDE->switch user->start new session).

I have tested it and this works fine. The second session is created directly besides the active one. So the second session would run on tty2.

Raymond

-- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Nelson Marques

19:29

2012/2/15 Ken Schneider - openSUSE :

...

On 02/15/2012 12:02 PM, Raymond Wooninck pecked at the keyboard and wrote:

...
...
I'm quite accustomed to do ctrl+alt+F1 in order to get a console, almost in every distro, and it usually works.

As indicated Fedora also made the change to have the Graphical Session running on tty1.

Fedora makes a change so everyone has to follow!

Sounds like another change for change's sake.

First people should check why Plymouth was changed to tty1, and the answer (if I recall correctly from when I tried to implement Plymouth in 2010) is quite simple... it's related to the encrypted volumes and keyboard hooks required to enter the password to access the encrypted volumes. So, Fedora didn't changed it because it feels nice, I'm sure there's some sort of technical explanation to support the change, and in that case, the obvious thing is to ask on Plymouth mailling list or ask directly to Ray Strode. Fedora (and derivates), Ubuntu/Debian (and derivates) and pretty much everyone using plymouth is running it on tty1... So the statement you make should be probably made the other way around: s/Fedora/openSUSE

...

...
...
Doing the change would mean breaking that. Although it's not that big of a deal if there's still tty2-9, it's still a nuisance.

The default tty's (2-6) are still there and I am sure we can extend them to cover more virtual terminals. There is no change in that

...
If you could make it start in tty7 as usual, it would be perfect.

We are looking into this. However at the moment this seems to end up in a text mode boot without plymouth itself.

...
If not, make sure the other ttys work, and that starting new graphical sessions also works (ie, from KDE->switch user->start new session).

I have tested it and this works fine. The second session is created directly besides the active one. So the second session would run on tty2.

Raymond

-- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-- Nelson Marques /* http://www.marques.so nmo.marques@gmail.com */ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Claudio Freire

19:32

On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 4:29 PM, Nelson Marques wrote:

...

First people should check why Plymouth was changed to tty1, and the answer (if I recall correctly from when I tried to implement Plymouth in 2010) is quite simple... it's related to the encrypted volumes and keyboard hooks required to enter the password to access the encrypted volumes.

That particular reason does not explain why it wouldn't switch to tty7 *after* early boot (where encrypted volumes get mounted), to display [KGX]DM. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Ken Schneider - openSUSE

23:13

On 02/15/2012 02:29 PM, Nelson Marques pecked at the keyboard and wrote:

...

2012/2/15 Ken Schneider - openSUSE:

...
On 02/15/2012 12:02 PM, Raymond Wooninck pecked at the keyboard and wrote:

...
...
I'm quite accustomed to do ctrl+alt+F1 in order to get a console, almost in every distro, and it usually works.

As indicated Fedora also made the change to have the Graphical Session running on tty1.

Fedora makes a change so everyone has to follow!

Sounds like another change for change's sake.

First people should check why Plymouth was changed to tty1, and the answer (if I recall correctly from when I tried to implement Plymouth in 2010) is quite simple... it's related to the encrypted volumes and keyboard hooks required to enter the password to access the encrypted volumes.

So, Fedora didn't changed it because it feels nice, I'm sure there's some sort of technical explanation to support the change, and in that case, the obvious thing is to ask on Plymouth mailling list or ask directly to Ray Strode.

Fedora (and derivates), Ubuntu/Debian (and derivates) and pretty much everyone using plymouth is running it on tty1... So the statement you make should be probably made the other way around:

s/Fedora/openSUSE

I only threw it out there because other changes are being implemented "because Fedora has already done so". Just voicing my $.02 -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Felix Miata

17:45

On 2012/02/15 17:46 (GMT+0100) Raymond Wooninck composed:

...

To give you a little heads up on the plymouth trial and errors. At this moment I managed to get a smooth transistion from plymouth to KDM/GDM. However this has a little side effect, namely that the graphical session is running on TTY1 and no longer on TTY7.

One of Fedora's many expectations breaking ideas.

...

GDM works out-of-the-box with this, but KDM would require a small patch. The main question however would be if it would be acceptable to have the change that the graphical session is running on TTY1. Fedora also made this change when they implemented Plymouth, but I am wondering what your opinion is.

100 thumbs down, same as Plymouth generally. TTY1 is where login progress _messages_ belong, regardless whether boot is literally text mode or not. I leave tt1 undisturbed until such time as I run out of other ttys to log in on, and don't like having to hunt for what belongs there when I need a mental refresh and didn't boot an expectations-respectful distro. Runlevel 3 startup, at least last time I checked, as I've not updated Mandriva or Fedora to their latest devel versions in quite a while, also keeps X off of tty1. That fact in itself should be reason enough not to have X default to tty1, since there's a logic/expectations breakdown in having X's & startup messages locations depend on whether X was started during init or not (like adding 3 to Grub line to troubleshoot broken X). There's another logic/expecations break when it starts on tty1: where to find :1, :2, :X. The way it is now, they are routinely in ascending adjacents: tty7=:0, tty8=:1, tty9=:2... Many scripts both well known and mostly forgotten assume X is on tty7. Who's going to rewrite them all? Sure is a lot of work just because some people don't like to see the screen "jump" during init. That jump tells me something is actually happening, which I welcome, opposite of Windows-like masking of whether progress is actually occurring. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

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participants (5)

Claudio Freire
Felix Miata
Ken Schneider - openSUSE
Nelson Marques
Raymond Wooninck