On 2023/04/27 22:36:47 +0200, Ulf wrote:

Hi,

after watching the Video from Nick from The Linux Experiment about Tumbleweed https://tube.sp-codes.de/w/f89mHN5gHwn4iHjkusvFL8

I think many remarks are pretty good. Beside the issue that the default installation is not booting (what I never had since the beginning from Tumbleweed and > 100 installations), it shows exactly the issues some Tumbleweed KDE users from our LUG and I have.

Ulf

On 2023/04/28 01:09:34 -0000, Ayhem wrote:

Yes it was a great video with real accurate remarks that tumbleweed really need to improve, specially when it comes to the yast ui/ux it needs a revamp, new fresh look and feel, although the installation issue i think it's from his end , also me I've installed tumbleweed+10 times and none of the installation showed error or something

There are two points which retain much ... no automatic WiFi Network configuration in YaST and the not working network printer configuration due to a blocking firewall. There seems to be some work required to a) have WiFi detected and make it configurable as well as b) open the required ports for detecting network printers as well. ... also this boot issue looks strange, but I never seen that, maybe the grub configuration in YaST mixed up some devices Adding yast2-maintainers@suse.de to CC ... or should I open two bugs? Werner -- "Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool." -- Edward Burr

On Fri, 2023-04-28 at 08:40 -0400, Pablo Sanchez wrote:

Early on, on the physical installation, I had the very same grub issue on a full wipe-install.  I re-did the installation, paying careful attention the next time, and everything worked.

All to say, it may not be a bug with the installer per se but perhaps the UI needs to be updated to help those who may not be paying full attention.  Like me that time.  :)

While I don't know if that's what happened with the video creator but given their Linux experience, it's possible given their experience with different distros he may have not read the prompts carefully.

The problem here is that it's all speculation. The only viable thing would have been to at least manage to collect yast logs - something we could go on later in a bug report. I'm not trying to dismiss the problem at all! The fact that it happened (even only a single time) is a very bad data point - and we should try to address it. All the 'clicking around in the partitioner' might have resulted in an invalid setup (sorry, it's an advanced installer, we expect you to know what you do) or, worse, yast got confused and did some wrong assumptions. In the first case, yast should probably be more clear in claiming: you go 'expert mode - I have to little capability to fully understand what you do there. you are on your own' In the 2nd case, yast should not have been confused of course. but, as said: no logs from the botched installation - no way we can even ask the yast team to try to fix it :( If anybody ever gets to such a point: try to boot with a rescue system and store away at least the yast logs (/var/log/YaST2) - they are quite verbose and the YaST Team does a fantastic job finding the needle in the heystack when it comes to those logs. Cheers Dominique

* J Leslie Turriff <jlturriff@mail.com> [04-28-23 21:21]:

On 2023-04-28 07:55:37 Dominique Leuenberger wrote:

...

On Fri, 2023-04-28 at 08:40 -0400, Pablo Sanchez wrote:

...

Early on, on the physical installation, I had the very same grub issue on a full wipe-install.  I re-did the installation, paying careful attention the next time, and everything worked.

All to say, it may not be a bug with the installer per se but perhaps the UI needs to be updated to help those who may not be paying full attention.  Like me that time.  :)

While I don't know if that's what happened with the video creator but given their Linux experience, it's possible given their experience with different distros he may have not read the prompts carefully.

The problem here is that it's all speculation. The only viable thing would have been to at least manage to collect yast logs - something we could go on later in a bug report.

I'm not trying to dismiss the problem at all! The fact that it happened (even only a single time) is a very bad data point - and we should try to address it.

All the 'clicking around in the partitioner' might have resulted in an invalid setup (sorry, it's an advanced installer, we expect you to know what you do) or, worse, yast got confused and did some wrong assumptions.

In the first case, yast should probably be more clear in claiming: you go 'expert mode - I have to little capability to fully understand what you do there. you are on your own' In the 2nd case, yast should not have been confused of course.

but, as said: no logs from the botched installation - no way we can even ask the yast team to try to fix it :(

If anybody ever gets to such a point: try to boot with a rescue system and store away at least the yast logs (/var/log/YaST2) - they are quite verbose and the YaST Team does a fantastic job finding the needle in the heystack when it comes to those logs.

Cheers Dominique

I don't think there is anything in the installation instructions that would explain how to collect the YaST logs, so someone unfamiliar with installing openSUSE would have no way to know this.

they would probably know google, there are many ways to obtain information besides being born all knowing. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet oftc

I don’t know but my feeling is that SUSE people want to let YaST fading out with time. Modules less and less maintained, some (i.e. X11) can be automatically configured now. It seems that they think the right way of doing things is to make system config usable out of box instead of tweaking. Charlie 寄件者: Ayhem <ayhem.kahri.one@gmail.com> 日期: 星期五, 2023年4月28日 上午9:09 收件者: factory@lists.opensuse.org <factory@lists.opensuse.org> 主旨: Re: openSUSE Tumbleweed Review - remarks fits my experiance Yes it was a great video with real accurate remarks that tumbleweed really need to improve, specially when it comes to the yast ui/ux it needs a revamp, new fresh look and feel, although the installation issue i think it's from his end , also me I've installed tumbleweed+10 times and none of the installation showed error or something

* Bernhard Voelker <mail@bernhard-voelker.de> [05-01-23 13:51]:

On 4/28/23 03:09, Ayhem wrote:

...

tumbleweed really need to improve, specially when it comes to the yast ui/ux it needs a revamp, new fresh look and feel

dunno, the last time I installed TW was maybe 5-6 and the other one ~10 years ago .. and happy with all machines since then. :-)

I did two installs last year w/o any memorable problems. they just work. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet oftc