Well, yes, thank you. How could I dare ask. Also, I didn't ask about what it is in Factory but what is there in the GM. Am Freitag, den 13.06.2008, 17:36 +0200 schrieb Philipp Thomas:

* Christian Jäger (christian.jaeger@rub.de) [20080612 23:33]:

...

just out of curiousity: Will 11.0 final's freetype package have subixel-hinting deactivated yet again, for fear about its legality.

Why don't you check yourself? Download the .src.rpm from factory and read the .spec file.

Philipp --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Friday 13 June 2008, Philipp Thomas wrote:

* Christian Jäger (christian.jaeger@rub.de) [20080612 23:33]:

...

just out of curiousity: Will 11.0 final's freetype package have subixel-hinting deactivated yet again, for fear about its legality.

Why don't you check yourself? Download the .src.rpm from factory and read the .spec file.

Philipp --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

why do people not try the giving a straight answer route some times instead of being so darn sarcastic all the time ! -- SuSE Linux 10.3-Alpha3. (Linux is like a wigwam - no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday 15 June 2008 01:36:57 am Jan-Olof Eriksson wrote:

If its disabled, how can i enable it?

http://opensuse-community.org/FAQ get used to look there for missing parts. -- Regards, Rajko http://en.opensuse.org/Portal needs helpful hands. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Rajko M. kirjoitti:

On Sunday 15 June 2008 01:36:57 am Jan-Olof Eriksson wrote:

...

If its disabled, how can i enable it?

http://opensuse-community.org/FAQ get used to look there for missing parts.

Ok, tested it, looks absolutely horrible. Do you have instructions to uninstall that? :D J-O.E --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Rajko M. kirjoitti:

Just disable it in control center. Or you can look in YaST for 'freetype' and using "upgrade" downgrade it to the official package version.

Ok, thanks!

With my new monitor I don't need it.

Same here, looks better without it. J-O.E --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Randall R Schulz kirjoitti:

On Sunday 15 June 2008 02:17, Jan-Olof Eriksson wrote:

...

Rajko M. kirjoitti:

...

On Sunday 15 June 2008 01:36:57 am Jan-Olof Eriksson wrote:

...

If its disabled, how can i enable it? http://opensuse-community.org/FAQ get used to look there for missing parts. Ok, tested it, looks absolutely horrible. Do you have instructions to uninstall that? :D

Are you saying sub-pixel hinting looks horrible? 'Cause if you are, it's because you haven't reconfigured your fonts properly. And, of course, it's only pertinent to begin with for LCD displays.

What do you mean by reconfiguring fonts? I tryed varius configs, hinting style Full, Medium etc, didnt like the output. Fonts looked like bolded, blurry or somethiung else etc. I got LCD screen also. J-O.E --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Randall R Schulz さんは書きました:

But if you don't like subpixel hinting at its best, that's your prerogative, but I find it vastly superior.

I don’t like it because the colour fringes it creates are very obvious. I believe the reason for this is that no gamma correction is done. Test it with ftview 20 /usr/share/fonts/truetype/DejaVuSans.ttf Then press F1 for help, switch on subpixel hinting (you need a freetype2 package with subpixel hinting enabled) and change the gamma correction to 2.1. If you compare this with screenshots from Windows, you will find that the results look very similar to the rendering of Windows “Cleartype” if the gamma correction is set to 2.1. But if it is left at the default value of 1.0, the Linux rendering looks much more “colourful” (disturbing, obviously visible colour fringes) than the Windows rendering. As gamma correction is currently only implemented in the test tool ftview, you cannot use it from other applications like Gnome/KDE/... -- Mike FABIAN http://www.suse.de/~mfabian 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。 I � Unicode --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Monday 16 June 2008 00:43, Mike FABIAN wrote:

Randall R Schulz さんは書きました:

...

But if you don't like subpixel hinting at its best, that's your prerogative, but I find it vastly superior.

I don’t like it because the colour fringes it creates are very obvious.

I believe the reason for this is that no gamma correction is done.

Test it with

ftview 20 /usr/share/fonts/truetype/DejaVuSans.ttf

On my 10.3 system, where I've rebuilt the FreeType packages to enable hinting, I cannot replicate the symptoms you describe. I don't have 11.0 installed anywhere to compare. I am also dubious about this tool. When it says hinting is active, the font (DejaVuSans, i.e.) looks like a naively rendered bitmap with stair-stepping quite obvious. When it says hinting is off, I see smoothing. Changing the gamma likewise does not produce any color fringing. The default view (the way the application starts up from the command you gave) is attached. But under no combination of the 'a' and the 'h' toggles do I see color fringing of any sort or degree.

...

Randall Schulz

Mike FABIAN kirjoitti:

Look at the help you get with F1.

a : toggle anti-aliasing f : toggle forced autohinting (byte code interpreter is not used if autohinting is forced) h : toggle outline hinting (here you can switch off hinting completely) L : cycle through LCD modes

You need the last option, ‘L’ to switch on subpixel (i.e. coloured)

Where can i edit that setting? J-O.E --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Monday 16 June 2008 06:26, Mike FABIAN wrote:

Randall R Schulz さんは書きました:

...

On Monday 16 June 2008 00:43, Mike FABIAN wrote:

...

Randall R Schulz さんは書きました:

...

But if you don't like subpixel hinting at its best, that's your prerogative, but I find it vastly superior.

I don’t like it because the colour fringes it creates are very obvious.

I believe the reason for this is that no gamma correction is done.

Test it with

ftview 20 /usr/share/fonts/truetype/DejaVuSans.ttf

On my 10.3 system, where I've rebuilt the FreeType packages to enable hinting,

You mean subpixel hinting. Normal hinting and byte code hinting is always enabled in our freetype2 packages anyway.

Yes, I enabled sub-pixel hinting. I said it was very tedious to get right. At one time on both my 10.0 and 10.3 systems I had to go through a protracted trial-and-error exercise to get the results that were best for me (my tastes, my equipment, my application usage pattern, etc.) I still prefer the results I have now with sub-pixel hinting on. It is also true that different fonts are hinted differently (as if that needs to be said) and not all do equally well. That's why choice of typefaces is also a part of the process of font optimization on any given system.

By the way, you don’t need to recompile your freetype2 packages yourself to get subpixel hinting enabled, just search for freetype2 here

http://software.opensuse.org/search

and use the packages from the M17N repository, for example:

When did that appear? At the time, all I was aware of was the page with instructions on rebuilding FreeType to enable sub-pixel hinting, and that's what I did.

...

Randal Schulz --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Jan-Olof Eriksson さんは書きました:

Mike FABIAN kirjoitti: way, you don’t need to recompile your freetype2 packages yourself

...

to get subpixel hinting enabled, just search for freetype2 here

http://software.opensuse.org/search

and use the packages from the M17N repository, for example:

http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/M17N/openSUSE_11.0/i586/freetype2-...

Whats teh difference between freetype2-32bit and freetype2-x86 packages?

-32bit packages are needed for 32bit applications running on a x86_64 (i.e. 64 bit) system. -x86_64 packages are the 64 bit packages. On a 32bit only system you need the -i586.rpm packages. -- Mike FABIAN http://www.suse.de/~mfabian 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。 I � Unicode --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Mike FABIAN kirjoitti: way, you don’t need to recompile your freetype2 packages yourself

to get subpixel hinting enabled, just search for freetype2 here

http://software.opensuse.org/search

and use the packages from the M17N repository, for example:

http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/M17N/openSUSE_11.0/i586/freetype2-...

Whats teh difference between freetype2-32bit and freetype2-x86 packages? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Jan-Olof Eriksson さんは書きました:

Randall R Schulz kirjoitti:

...

On Sunday 15 June 2008 02:17, Jan-Olof Eriksson wrote:

...

Rajko M. kirjoitti:

...

On Sunday 15 June 2008 01:36:57 am Jan-Olof Eriksson wrote:

...

If its disabled, how can i enable it? http://opensuse-community.org/FAQ get used to look there for missing parts. Ok, tested it, looks absolutely horrible. Do you have instructions to uninstall that? :D

Are you saying sub-pixel hinting looks horrible? 'Cause if you are, it's because you haven't reconfigured your fonts properly. And, of course, it's only pertinent to begin with for LCD displays.

I tryed this again. I dont get it, i have LCD screen and fonts look green-black-red mixture, does anyone know why? I use freetype package from M17N -repo.

I tried to explain this, but maybe I couldn’t express it clearly. The wikipedia article about the subject http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subpixel_rendering is a good introduction to understand what sub-pixel hinting is and what it is supposed to achieve. Of course this works only as intended, if the calculation of the colour values used is done in a way which is suitable for the properties of the screen. If wrong colour values are used, sub-pixel hinting will not have the effect of increasing the apparent resolution. To the contrary, it will make you see colours around the glyphs which can be very annoying. For example, let’s assume that you set your sub-pixel hinting to VRGB in your fontconfig setup (or use the KDE or Gnome Gui for that) and your screen is not VRGB (red, green, and blue sub-pixels arranged vertically) but it is RGB (red, green, and blue pixels arranged horizontally). Then the calculation which pixels should show which colour to switch on the desired sub-pixels with the desired intensity will get completely wrong results which are just wrong for that screen. The result is that the rendering will look worse instead of better. The same happens if gamma correction isn’t done right. There is also a wikipedia article about gamma correction: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_correction If this is not done right, the pixels will end up luminating with wrong intensity values which makes you see different colours than intended. In my perception, doing sub-pixel hinting with wrong gamma correction looks worse than doing no sub-pixel hinting at all. If it is done right, I can barely notice that there are colours around the glyphs, only if I use a magnification tool like “xmag” I can clearly see the colours. But if the calculation of the colours and/or intensities is very wrong, I can see the colours around the glyphs without using any special tool with my naked eyes 1 meter away from the monitor. This cannot be correct, this just looks bad. This is the “green-black-red mixture” you described above. -- Mike FABIAN http://www.suse.de/~mfabian 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。 I � Unicode --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

@ Peter Nikolic: Thanks for the info! Quite sad not to have such a standard feature, isn't it? It also makes the function to activate subpixel-hinting in the gnome control center kind of useless unless you know how to remedy this lack. Am Sonntag, den 15.06.2008, 09:36 +0300 schrieb Jan-Olof Eriksson:

If its disabled, how can i enable it?

Use a different freetype-package. Quickly found via http://software.opensuse.org/search Greets, Chris --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org