-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2010-11-16 at 17:39 +0100, Marcus Rueckert wrote:

if you run imap anyway, you could also use dovecot and its deliver tool. *holds up the dovecot flag* =)

There would have to be a cookbook of recipes equivalent to what procmail does, and I haven't seen it. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkzi3VAACgkQtTMYHG2NR9Uk8gCgjyfO6o5FOwWl6iNMlOiuemvu +cUAn0jPnNmkYpzq/1eZ3INYlnWcg10+ =L61+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2010-11-16 at 21:06 +0100, Guido Berhoerster wrote:

* Carlos E. R. <t> [2010-11-16 20:36]:

...

On Tuesday, 2010-11-16 at 17:39 +0100, Marcus Rueckert wrote:

...

if you run imap anyway, you could also use dovecot and its deliver tool. *holds up the dovecot flag* =)

There would have to be a cookbook of recipes equivalent to what procmail does, and I haven't seen it.

The Dovecot LDA supports the Sieve mail filtering language which is standardized and widely documented.

Mmm? cer@Telcontar:~> man deliver No manual entry for deliver cer@Telcontar:~> ls /usr/share/doc/packages/dovecot/* | grep -i deliver cer@Telcontar:~> So, not documented at all. What they document is maildrop from courier, in /usr/share/doc/packages/dovecot/wiki/maildrop.txt. But installing that one in openSUSE requires the entire courier imap package, which would conflict with dovecot. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkzi+roACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UeigCePCzu9mvaKfnpowzturmVploZ cGsAoIl4Ewf7ySbpe8JWLd6m5df3Mdk+ =enaZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 3:34 PM, Guido Berhoerster wrote:

* Carlos E. R. [2010-11-16 22:42]:

...

...

The Dovecot LDA supports the Sieve mail filtering language which is standardized and widely documented.

Mmm?

cer@Telcontar:~> man deliver No manual entry for deliver

cer@Telcontar:~> ls /usr/share/doc/packages/dovecot/* | grep -i deliver cer@Telcontar:~>

So, not documented at all. What they document is maildrop from courier, in /usr/share/doc/packages/dovecot/wiki/maildrop.txt. But installing that one in openSUSE requires the entire courier imap package, which would conflict with dovecot.

Huh?

http://wiki1.dovecot.org/LDA/Sieve http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5228 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sieve_%28mail_filtering_language%29

-- Guido Berhoerster

However this plays out, an entry on the opensuse wiki about the status of the various mail filtering options would be nice. I don't know enough to write it, so think of me as a consumer! fyi: I have written / updated several wiki pages, so I'm not just a slug asking others to work. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

* Carlos E. R. [2010-11-17 01:19]:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

On Wednesday, 2010-11-17 at 00:34 +0100, Guido Berhoerster wrote:

...

* Carlos E. R. <> [2010-11-16 22:42]:

...

...

So, not documented at all. What they document is maildrop from

...

Huh?

http://wiki1.dovecot.org/LDA/Sieve

That is a pluging for "deliver". There is no manual for deliver, thus documenting sieve is useless if I don't know how to use deliver first.

http://wiki1.dovecot.org/LDA There is extensive documentation in the wiki, I don't know whether the Dovecot package includes an exported version of the documentation since I don't run my Dovecot server on openSUSE. -- Guido Berhoerster -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 2010-11-17 13:42:14 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On Wednesday, 2010-11-17 at 01:39 +0100, Guido Berhoerster wrote:

...

* Carlos E. R. <> [2010-11-17 01:19]:

...

...

That is a pluging for "deliver". There is no manual for deliver, thus documenting sieve is useless if I don't know how to use deliver first.

http://wiki1.dovecot.org/LDA

There is extensive documentation in the wiki, I don't know whether the Dovecot package includes an exported version of the documentation since I don't run my Dovecot server on openSUSE.

It does. But I have no way to know that LDA is the documentation for deliver...

LDA.Exim.txt LDA.Postfix.txt LDA.Sendmail.txt LDA.Sieve.Dovecot.txt LDA.txt LDA.Indexing.txt LDA.Qmail.txt LDA.Sieve.CMU.txt LDA.Sieve.txt

I don't see a guide on how to convert my procmail rules to that. A guide for dummies, I don't know where to start. Yes, I'm looking at that wiki. I use procmail to sort incoming mail into dozens of folders, and from several providers. I don't see that detailed info anywhere. Yes, I'm thickheaded. I don't even see which file to contain the filtering rules, and how do I write the rules in there. How do I call spamc, etc. With examples.

A guide on how to convert from procmail (complex) filtering to dovecot's LDA. For dummies, like me.

http://wiki.dovecot.org/LDA/Sieve or /usr/share/doc/packages/dovecot/wiki/LDA.Sieve.txt Sieve is nothing dovecot specific. It is supported by cyrus aswell for example. At the bottom of the wiki page is also a link for a procmail2sieve.pl script. A page that helped me a lot was: http://wiki.fastmail.fm/index.php?title=SieveExamples or even the RFCs. darix -- openSUSE - SUSE Linux is my linux openSUSE is good for you www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 11/16/2010 04:42 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On Tuesday, 2010-11-16 at 21:06 +0100, Guido Berhoerster wrote:

...

* Carlos E. R. <t> [2010-11-16 20:36]:

...

On Tuesday, 2010-11-16 at 17:39 +0100, Marcus Rueckert wrote:

...

if you run imap anyway, you could also use dovecot and its deliver tool. *holds up the dovecot flag* =)

There would have to be a cookbook of recipes equivalent to what procmail does, and I haven't seen it.

...

The Dovecot LDA supports the Sieve mail filtering language which is standardized and widely documented.

Mmm?

cer@Telcontar:~> man deliver No manual entry for deliver

cer@Telcontar:~> ls /usr/share/doc/packages/dovecot/* | grep -i deliver cer@Telcontar:~>

So, not documented at all. What they document is maildrop from courier, in /usr/share/doc/packages/dovecot/wiki/maildrop.txt. But installing that one in openSUSE requires the entire courier imap package, which would conflict with dovecot.

This goes to the heart of something I was thinking about earlier. We have so many checks in the creation of RPMs that make the distribution more stable and easier to use for users. What about adding a check to ensure that executables installed in standard locations *must* have man pages? There are a bunch of commands with no help and no man pages. In a lot of cases it would be enough to have a man page that states the user probably shouldn't run the command manually. - -Jeff - -- Jeff Mahoney SUSE Labs -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkzjRsoACgkQLPWxlyuTD7JqIwCghKc5EomvDov+Fy0xzMCiHlCy r8oAn3hoadBv0j6IMp66f0BAjUxKXYBW =WQZK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Hi, On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 10:06:50PM -0500, Jeff Mahoney wrote:

This goes to the heart of something I was thinking about earlier. We have so many checks in the creation of RPMs that make the distribution more stable and easier to use for users. What about adding a check to ensure that executables installed in standard locations *must* have man pages?

There are a bunch of commands with no help and no man pages. In a lot of cases it would be enough to have a man page that states the user probably shouldn't run the command manually.

Yes, I absolutely second this. And I am also concerned about the fragmentation with documentation. There are plenty of READMEs under /usr/share/doc, but they mainly contain compilation hints. Some have man pages, other info pages, for some you only need the --help output. I think everyone here oversaw "obvious" documentation. The problem is usually not the amount or quality of documentation, but to find the right one. Some once started to use README.SUSE for starter help, but it seems it is not widely used anymore: locate README.SUSE | wc -l 38 Maybe writing such a file should be encouraged, because it could also contain links to the openSUSE wiki or upstream docs. -- Bye, Stephan Barth Novell Technical Services, Worldwide Support Services Linux SUSE LINUX GmbH, GF: Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuremberg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 10:59:34PM +0100, Stefan Seyfried wrote:

On Tue, 16 Nov 2010 17:21:29 +0100 (CET) "Carlos E. R." wrote:

...

Hi,

I have been told by the fetchmail people that procmail has been without upstream maintenance for years (10 years!)

What's the problem with procmail? Does it have serious bugs? Security problems? Anything?

Maybe there is simply no reason to change software that's working perfectly well?

"Never touch a running system" ;)

Yeah I wonder. Would not miss procmail :/ Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

El 16/11/10 19:22, Patrick Shanahan escribió:

What would you suggest as a *capable* equal replacement?

whatever that supports sieve filtering will do the trick, I place my bet on dovecot LDA as well. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 2010-11-16 17:35:35 -0500, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Cristian Rodríguez [11-16-10 17:26]:

...

El 16/11/10 19:22, Patrick Shanahan escribió:

...

What would you suggest as a *capable* equal replacement?

whatever that supports sieve filtering will do the trick, I place my bet on dovecot LDA as well.

local server postfix procmail mutt

why dovecot/overkill?

iirc you only need the dovecot master running when using 1.2, you can leave out all the imap and just have the master running for the config stuff. if you have procmail running already the MB more ram usage from dovecot wouldnt harm you. and as a small hint: mutt + dovecot imap is waaaaaaaaaaay faster than mutt's own header cache for imap. give that a try: set spoolfile=imap://darix@localhost/INBOX set folder=imap://darix@localhost/ set tunnel="/usr/sbin/dovecot --exec-mail imap" set imap_check_subscribed = yes and then you will really appreciate using deliver as it will automatically updates the indeces from dovecot when a new mail gets delivered. last but not least sieve >>> procmail rule language. darix -- openSUSE - SUSE Linux is my linux openSUSE is good for you www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

* Marcus Rueckert [11-17-10 06:02]:

On 2010-11-16 17:35:35 -0500, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

local server postfix procmail mutt

why dovecot/overkill?

iirc you only need the dovecot master running when using 1.2, you can leave out all the imap and just have the master running for the config stuff. if you have procmail running already the MB more ram usage from dovecot wouldnt harm you.

and as a small hint: mutt + dovecot imap is waaaaaaaaaaay faster than mutt's own header cache for imap. give that a try:

? mbox :^) -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday, 2010-11-17 at 15:57 +0100, Marcus Rueckert wrote:

...

? mbox :^)

i stopped using that like 10years ago. Maildir is much better (imho).

It is not - imho >:-) Dbox or mix would be. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkzkBXEACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WjmwCfTHENSLzQsOko14cQe+a3sPWh V5IAnjYYnQicNWl0+GiI0M+42FrYs3s9 =2Y6K -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

* Marcus Rueckert [11-17-10 11:48]:

dbox is much younger than maildir. Timo ironed it out nicely so it is all stable now, but 10years ago it wasnt available. and once he finished single instance storage i might switch to dbox.

what is mix?

a variation of mbox, iiuc. http://wiki.dovecot.org/MailboxFormat/mix just as dbox is an mbox derivative. If you change to dbox, how will you read with mutt? -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday, 2010-11-17 at 11:58 -0500, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Marcus Rueckert <> [11-17-10 11:48]:

...

dbox is much younger than maildir. Timo ironed it out nicely so it is all stable now, but 10years ago it wasnt available. and once he finished single instance storage i might switch to dbox.

what is mix?

a variation of mbox, iiuc. http://wiki.dovecot.org/MailboxFormat/mix just as dbox is an mbox derivative.

Both are a kind of maildir and mbox together: several mails per file, but with a limit. When there are too many another file is added, and there is a common index. Thus, in a maillist such as this you don't get thousands of files per directory, nor you get huge files when you have many mails with big attachements. I have two problems for not using it: one, that procmail can not use it, and that dovecot can not mix different formats, AFAIK, so migration is not that easy.

If you change to dbox, how will you read with mutt?

Via imap. Which is also a problem, if dovecot fails we can not read the folder directly. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkzl4m0ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XulQCghE3qXoJM41PR6lY6DPPtyRSg uIQAnRFSAbbrQKw3R5IOFqKg+8m3cWa4 =6C6n -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2010-11-19 at 09:39 +0100, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Which is also a problem, if dovecot fails we can not read the folder directly.

If power fails, you can't access your computer at all.

I could get the generator out of a car, attach it to a room-bicycle, and generate electricity enough for my laptop :-) What I mean is that if one folder gets corrupt, I have tools to rebuild it. With Alpine I can read it (or most of it) and copy the emails to a new folder, which then can be read by dovecot and served to thunderbird. I did this some weeks back. If I were using dbox, the folder would probably be lost. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkzm798ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9W5VACfRDVKxjED9kB7KQ0WGeoo3BY7 oisAnR4x5ENrg8lqk72fAY0OvqKstt7c =9gVm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 2010-11-17 17:46:48 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

Dovecot with mbox work just fine - meaning you can access directly the mbox files or via imap, whatever you choose, with the advantage of also being able to use the same folders from other programs or computers, if you want.

maildir is also accessible via mutt. that was the main reason why i switched from mbox to maildir. but i drove the mutt headercache to its limits. 250 000+ mails in a mailbox just doesnt work nicely with the mutt header cache. thats why i use dovecot's imap binary via the tunnel option now. most graphical MUAs have even more fun with those mailboxes. TB e.g. needed 25minutes to switch from non-threaded to threaded view.;)

I'm using dovecot with procmail sorting, by the way.

well then start using deliver and benefit from instantly updated indeces. darix -- openSUSE - SUSE Linux is my linux openSUSE is good for you www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 2010-11-17 11:59:37 -0500, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Marcus Rueckert [11-17-10 11:51]:

...

well then start using deliver and benefit from instantly updated indeces.

w/mbox format ??

yes. dovecot also uses indeces for mbox mailboxes. darix -- openSUSE - SUSE Linux is my linux openSUSE is good for you www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, 16 Nov 2010 19:25:38 -0300 Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

El 16/11/10 19:22, Patrick Shanahan escribió:

...

What would you suggest as a *capable* equal replacement?

whatever that supports sieve filtering will do the trick, I place my bet on dovecot LDA as well.

he asked for a *capable*, *equal* replacement. SIEVE is no match for the elegant, easy to learn, powerful and proven filtering language that procmail has ;-) So no, whatever supports SIEVE filtering will not do the trick. -- Stefan Seyfried "Any ideas, John?" "Well, surrounding them's out." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, 17 Nov 2010, Marcus Rueckert wrote:

On 2010-11-17 12:02:20 +0100, Stefan Seyfried wrote:

...

he asked for a *capable*, *equal* replacement.

SIEVE is no match for the elegant, easy to learn, powerful and proven filtering language that procmail has ;-)

irony overloaded hardcore.

Hm, was that now irony^2? Seriously, try doing ~gcctest/.procmailrc (for those not able to read that file, execute arbitrary shell scripts) with dovekot. Richard. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, 17 Nov 2010, Marcus Rueckert wrote:

On 2010-11-17 15:15:59 +0100, Richard Guenther wrote:

...

Seriously, try doing ~gcctest/.procmailrc (for those not able to read that file, execute arbitrary shell scripts) with dovekot.

you mean all those commented out rules that dont do anything? i can do that with a sieve script too. ;)

Just did that after realizing this isn't research@suse.de ... Richard. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2010-11-16 at 23:30 +0100, Marcus Meissner wrote:

On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 05:22:37PM -0500, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Marcus Meissner <> [11-16-10 17:13]:

...

but *many* of us would :^(

What would you suggest as a *capable* equal replacement?

I meant "I definitely would miss procmail". Sorry ;)

Me too. I don't know what is wrong with procmail, I have no idea, but that the fetchmail folks strongly recomend not to use it, because it has been abandoned 10 years ago. They send people to use maildrop instead, which I can not try because here it pulls the entire courier. I "love" procmail. It serves me perfectly. But it is scary that it has no devs at all! Is somebody at openSUSE patching it if needed? Are there any plans for a substitute? - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkzjIakACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WqpQCfV9cixpCIuNGpaBn8L5TKCl+E U6oAn0TortfMJAXWozgGLcXy4ko+0hYG =NJPV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday, 2010-11-17 at 01:48 +0100, Guido Berhoerster wrote:

* Carlos E. R. <> [2010-11-17 01:28]:

...

I "love" procmail. It serves me perfectly. But it is scary that it has no devs at all! Is somebody at openSUSE patching it if needed?

You should have a look at its source code...

Looking for... ? - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkzjOT4ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9V0awCfYPrsA8jwcVqulVTOPNDCkbMS 1bEAnRLmdKR1Wb8ZgJQ5B2AYxNT8hRZi =HId0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 11/16/2010 06:38 PM, Greg KH wrote:

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 03:09:00AM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On Wednesday, 2010-11-17 at 01:48 +0100, Guido Berhoerster wrote:

...

* Carlos E. R. <> [2010-11-17 01:28]:

...

...

I "love" procmail. It serves me perfectly. But it is scary that it has no devs at all! Is somebody at openSUSE patching it if needed?

You should have a look at its source code...

Looking for... ?

You obviously have not actually looked at it.

It's scary, very scary. The comment style alone should tell you all you need to know about it...

greg k-h

Hmm not alot of whitespace in there. Those statements are tighter than a Honolulu parking garage. -johnm -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, 16 Nov 2010 19:38:30 -0800 Greg KH wrote:

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 03:09:00AM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

Looking for... ?

You obviously have not actually looked at it.

Well. If "it is not written with kernel coding-style" ia an argument, then the distribution will be pretty minimal soon ;)

It's scary, very scary.

I have seen worse. And it was obviously written with security in mind. Its history war pretty good so far.

The comment style alone should tell you all you need to know about it...

There are comments in there. And they are not all bad. I would really prefer technical arguments: * "it has to go because it is a major maintainance burden" * "it has lots of security problems and nobody wants to solve them" etc. As long as it works and it obviously needs only wery little attention, I'd leave it in... -- Stefan Seyfried "Any ideas, John?" "Well, surrounding them's out." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 2010-11-17 09:11:18 (-0300), Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

El 17/11/10 00:38, Greg KH escribió:

...

You obviously have not actually looked at it.

It's scary, very scary.

I just did :-S Scary indeed.

Though I agree this thing is useful, someone may want reeimplement the "syntax" or some it is concepts in a higher level language.

getmail, maildrop, sieve (e.g. dovecot-lda) Somewhat different approach, different config syntax, same purpose. Non-anal config syntax. Maintained. cheers -- -o) Pascal Bleser /\\ http://opensuse.org -- I took the green pill _\_v FOSDEM XI: 5 + 6 Feb 2011, http://fosdem.org

On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 01:28:24 +0100 (CET) "Carlos E. R." wrote:

I don't know what is wrong with procmail, I have no idea, but that the fetchmail folks strongly recomend not to use it,

Which is very funny, if you look at the past and current fetchmail developers and the code and the "funny" design decisions they have made. Just look at both project's security track record...

because it has been abandoned 10 years ago.

I'd say it was finished 10 years ago. With no need to update because it is feature complete and apparently pretty bugfree. It seems that even the last five years of compiler improvements in detecting overflows and such did not uncover flaws in procmail, which I personally think is pretty impressive.

I "love" procmail. It serves me perfectly. But it is scary that it has no devs at all! Is somebody at openSUSE patching it if needed? Are there any plans for a substitute?

What feature are you missing? What patch do you miss? "Oh my god, nobody has improved the shape of the wheel since 100 years. Let's abandon all wheels immediately, they cannot possibly work anymore!!!" -- Stefan Seyfried "Any ideas, John?" "Well, surrounding them's out." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 13:22:40 +0100 (CET) "Carlos E. R." wrote:

...

"Oh my god, nobody has improved the shape of the wheel since 100 years. Let's abandon all wheels immediately, they cannot possibly work anymore!!!"

It is not that. Even if I don't have to ever repair the wheels of my car, I want to know that if go to the garage there will be a mechanic. Or that if a flaw appears that affect my vehicle, there will be a recall notice or repair notice. I want somebody in charge that says "no news", like the guard on duty: best news is no news.

no news. procmail is fine. Do you feel better now? ;-) -- Stefan Seyfried "Any ideas, John?" "Well, surrounding them's out." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 03:01:01PM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On Wednesday, 2010-11-17 at 23:06 +0100, Stefan Seyfried wrote:

...

...

repair notice. I want somebody in charge that says "no news", like the guard on duty: best news is no news.

no news. procmail is fine.

Do you feel better now? ;-)

Yes... but you do not count :-p

(You are not the guard on duty )

New features? What about mix or dbox support? :-)

Doesn't matter, the code works great, a lot of people rely on it, so it stays. thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Hello, on Mittwoch, 17. November 2010, Carlos E. R. wrote:

They send people to use maildrop instead, which I can not try because here it pulls the entire courier.

Then the solver choose the wrong alternative ;-) AFAIK maildrop "just" needs some helper programs (deliverquota and maildirmake) that are provided in the maildrop-maildirutils package. Try installing this package, then install maildrop. It will only pull in courier-authlib, but shouldn't install the entire courier packages. That said: If you want/have to switch from procmail to something more recent and more maintained, I'd recommend dovecot deliver because deliver uses sieve which is a standardized language. IIRC there are even some tools that help mouse users to "write" filter rules. BTW: Dovecot is under heavier development compared to courier (which seems to be more in maintenance mode [1]) and has more features, although the feature list probably affects more the POP3/IMAP side of dovecot and isn't too interesting when you only want to filter your mails ;-) Regards, Christian Boltz [1] at least I think so after a short look at the changelog - the entries look more like maintenance stuff. (Please correct me if I'm wrong - maybe I simply missed the "cool new features" section.) On the positive side, courier _is_ actively maintained, which makes it better than procmail ;-) -- Der nächste DAU kommt bestimmt. Sie werden in den Kellern von AOL gezüchtet. [Dieter Bruegmann in dag°] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Stefan Seyfried wrote:

On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 01:11:01 +0100 Christian Boltz wrote:

...

[1] at least I think so after a short look at the changelog - the entries look more like maintenance stuff. (Please correct me if I'm wrong - maybe I simply missed the "cool new features" section.) On the positive side, courier _is_ actively maintained, which makes it better than procmail ;-)

I again read this as "software that does not need changes for almost 10 years must be bad, only software that is in need of constant bugfixing can be good".

Yes, this is the openSUSE "policy" - for instance, it was one of the reasons given for dropping support for JFS. (at installation time). -- Per Jessen, Zürich (5.2°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Greg KH wrote:

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 09:25:52AM +0100, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Stefan Seyfried wrote:

...

On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 01:11:01 +0100 Christian Boltz wrote:

...

[1] at least I think so after a short look at the changelog - the entries look more like maintenance stuff. (Please correct me if I'm wrong - maybe I simply missed the "cool new features" section.) On the positive side, courier _is_ actively maintained, which makes it better than procmail ;-)

I again read this as "software that does not need changes for almost 10 years must be bad, only software that is in need of constant bugfixing can be good".

Yes, this is the openSUSE "policy" - for instance, it was one of the reasons given for dropping support for JFS. (at installation time).

JFS was different, IBM explicitly said, "we will not support this", so we dropped support for it as they were the ones providing it.

Funny, that was never, ever mentioned when I was arguing to keep it. Instead, lack of active development and JFS being "mature" were given as arguments for not supporting it. Applying the same arguments, and given the state of procmail, we should surely drop it immediately :-)

And for a filesystem, support is essencial to resolve bugs that will come up, and to help handle issues with new kernel releases (remember, it is just a part of a larger system, the kernel).

In the time since openSUSE dropped support, JFS has been patched several times, mostly minor, but one or two important fixes. Even by SUSE or Novell staff, IIRC. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (3.5°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Hi Christian, On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 14:07:29 +0100 Christian Boltz wrote:

Hello,

on Freitag, 19. November 2010, Stefan Seyfried wrote:

...

On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 01:11:01 +0100 Christian Boltz wrote:

...

[1] at least I think so after a short look at the changelog - the entries look more like maintenance stuff. (Please correct me if I'm wrong - maybe I simply missed the "cool new features" section.) On the positive side, courier _is_ actively maintained, which makes it better than procmail ;-)

I again read this as "software that does not need changes for almost 10 years must be bad, only software that is in need of constant bugfixing can be good".

To be honest, I think this is plain stupid. Not having to touch a piece of software for years is more like a sign of quality (at least if it is a non-trivial piece of software).

Yes, of course. However, there are some real advantages of dovecot when you compare it to courier. For example:

We were talking about procmail here. -- Stefan Seyfried "Any ideas, John?" "Well, surrounding them's out." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Content-ID: On Sunday, 2010-11-21 at 11:47 +0100, Bjoern Voigt wrote:

I think, maildrop is an alternative to procmail. But I think, the package maildrop-maildirutils should go into the main repositories for openSUSE 11.4. Otherwise most people will not see it.

One of my initial points in this thread was that maildrop can not be installed independently in openSUSE, because it brings the courier-imap, which should not be a requirement. This has not be answered yet.

Currently I use several external helper programs and scripts in my .procmailrc file:

You are right.

Sure, most of these external helpers can be replaced with other Server side techniques. But probably not all helpers can be replaced. So, for me "maildrop" is an "procmail" alternative, because it supports external helper programs.

I can't say, it is not installable here. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkzpJb0ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VKBgCfRDieSkBDifVaWlq2J/h7jWp2 n3oAn0jIwcV3ZAjq/NEmv75PMv7ut8Pu =mqF5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2010-11-21 at 18:55 +0100, Christian Boltz wrote:

on Sonntag, 21. November 2010, Carlos E. R. wrote:

maildrop itsself is only available in server:mail (+ home repos), so just moving maildrop-maildirutils to Factory is pointless. In fact, both packages are built from the same source and spec file.

Mmm?... You are right. I looked in zypper, but zypper did not told me it was comming from the the server:mail repo.

The interesting point is that the courier-imap also contains the maildirutils. Maybe the best solution would be to split the utils off the courier-imap package and then just keep one instance of them (either build from courier-imap or from maildrop).

The package maildrop brings courier-imap as dependency.

...

One of my initial points in this thread was that maildrop can not be installed independently in openSUSE, because it brings the courier-imap, which should not be a requirement.

This has not be answered yet.

Huh? What about the maildrop-maildirutils package mentioned above and in my previous mail? You will still need courier-authdaemon (maildrop uses it to look up user quotas etc.), but you won't need the courier-imap (POP3 and IMAP daemon) package.

Zypper thinks different: Telcontar:~ # zypper in --dry-run maildrop Retrieving repository 'Packman Repository' metadata [done] Building repository 'Packman Repository' cache [done] Loading repository data... Reading installed packages... Resolving package dependencies... The following NEW packages are going to be installed: courier-authlib courier-imap maildrop 3 new packages to install. Overall download size: 2.5 MiB. After the operation, additional 8.2 MiB will be used. Continue? [y/n/?] (y): n - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkzpld8ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XC9ACghQFAvuiYaviFPzEfvgUqcGex fQAAniWWU7QMH2EA42lI2g6cY2cMFXib =51hn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 2010-11-16 17:22:37 (-0500), Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Marcus Meissner [11-16-10 17:13]:

...

Would not miss procmail :/ but *many* of us would :^(

I definitely wouldn't, it's a bag of pain ;)

What would you suggest as a *capable* equal replacement?

getmail, maildrop, dovecot-lda (with sieve) I use this: getmail -> dovecot-lda -> dovecot -> Maildir -> mutt `--> IMAP4 ---> thunderbird cheers -- -o) Pascal Bleser /\\ http://opensuse.org -- I took the green pill _\_v FOSDEM XI: 5 + 6 Feb 2011, http://fosdem.org