On Wed, 28 May 2014 06:30:34 +0200 Stephan Kulow wrote:

Am 27.05.2014 21:45, schrieb Richard Brown:

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The Roadmap is being firmed up, but I understand the expected release of 13.2 is due in November

I don't plan to release milestones till very late into the 13.2 development. They are replaced by daily snapshots, see http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2014-05/msg00110.html

In milestone-0, I found a bug - https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=803026 - in the ISO that results in an unsuccessful installation on one of my machines. These bugs crop up in every new release so how will we find them without regular milestones? Even with the testing schedule used in previous releases, some installation-media bugs persisted into final release. At first glance, this risk would seem to be increased under this new policy. Could we please see some info on this change of policy in https://en.opensuse.org/Roadmap ? I think it may also need some sort of mention in http://software.opensuse.org/developer/en also. -- Graham Davis, Bracknell, Berks. openSUSE 13.2-m0 (64-bit); KDE 4.13.00; AMD Phenom II X2 550 Processor; Kernel: 3.14.0; Video: nVidia GeForce 210 (using nouveau driver); Sound: ATI SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Hi Stephan, thanks for your clarification.

Basically we'll have regular milestones - daily.

As Graham, I think that this should be announced on the usual wiki pages. I read your announcement about Factory, but I did not get that was intended as a replacement for early milestones. There is no roadmap for 13.2 at all. I'd expect to see, "milestone0 out, daily factory in between, in fall we make further milestones." Currently you have no possibility to gain this knowledge. Bye Christoph -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Wed, 28 May 2014 11:50:24 +0200 Stephan Kulow wrote:

On 28.05.2014 11:36, Christoph Grüninger wrote:

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Hi Stephan, thanks for your clarification.

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Basically we'll have regular milestones - daily.

As Graham, I think that this should be announced on the usual wiki pages. I read your announcement about Factory, but I did not get that was intended as a replacement for early milestones. There is no roadmap for 13.2 at all. I'd expect to see, "milestone0 out, daily factory in between, in fall we make further milestones." Currently you have no possibility to gain this knowledge.

I'm not the only one who can edit the wiki.

As you seem to be the one who has changed the policy, you should be the one to change the wiki. Would you rather I did it and put a load of nonsense there? As I don't really understand what the new policy is in detail, that would certainly be the result of me getting my sticky fingers involved. -- Graham Davis, Bracknell, Berks. openSUSE 13.2-m0 (64-bit); KDE 4.13.00; AMD Phenom II X2 550 Processor; Kernel: 3.14.0; Video: nVidia GeForce 210 (using nouveau driver); Sound: ATI SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 2014-05-28 11:50 (GMT+0200) Stephan Kulow composed:

I'm not the only one who can edit the wiki.

This is the problem with wikis as docs generally, one of chicken and egg. If a dev guy or group who makes a code change doesn't provide adequate explanation of change in a location where those looking for such information expect to find it, how's anyone else supposed to figure it out well enough to describe it in any doc, wiki or otherwise? You may think http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2014-05/msg00110.html provided it in this case, but that's not what it looked/looks like to me WRT the factory wiki page, except maybe as an additional wiki page rather than update to what's there now. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Am 29.05.2014 08:25, schrieb Christoph Grüninger:

Good morning, thanks for encouraging me in editing the wiki pages myself.

https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Roadmap https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Most_annoying_bugs_13.2_dev

Today I can feel little bit being openSuse :-)

Thanks Christoph! :)

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Basically we'll have regular milestones - daily.

Where can I get more information about that, especially a download link? All I could find was called snapshot and was linking to milestone 0.

The details aren't ironed out yet. But basically http://download.opensuse.org/factory/iso/ will contain DVDs too - and we will use factory-snapshots only during the beta phase. E.g. the currently published snapshot is 20140528 and you can find the QA results at https://openqa.opensuse.org/tests/overview?build=20140528&distri=opensuse&version=FTT I still want to hear your expectations as I wrote in the "Closing the Ring" mail. Greetings, Stephan -- Ma muaß weiterkämpfen, kämpfen bis zum Umfalln, a wenn die ganze Welt an Arsch offen hat, oder grad deswegn. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 05/28/2014 10:06 AM, Felix Miata wrote:

On 2014-05-28 06:30 (GMT+0200) Stephan Kulow composed:

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I don't plan to release milestones till very late into the 13.2 development. They are replaced by daily snapshots, see http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2014-05/msg00110.html

Searching for string "daily" on the page finds nothing. Where are these "daily snapshots" to be found by those who only download what will be installed (aka network installation) rather than isos full of packages never to be installed? Is this what factory now amounts to? If not, wouldn't it make sense for factory-snapshot to be that home, and some other location become home to latest milestone?

I agree. It would be nice to have a specific link to an ISO download. Do we download ISOs from openqa? I always test the installation process. Although the links in the NET install point to openSUSE 13.2 are they actually pointing to Factory? What is with the black and green installer? Is the gui being redesigned? - -- Cheers! Roman - -------------------------------------------- openSUSE -- Get it! Discover it! Share it! - -------------------------------------------- http://linuxcounter.net/ #179293 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTh2OvAAoJEISyH9AowGDQLKsH/0FlHZ80ISBN4L3nV62p2POP Q2HZrYXFC7bli89VGu8NZUf5jLQ8BGFNNwyenXyRtWqG2Jxjz1HhLjMWfwrEnd2o 1CYNcqa71dzq3BBUIUlqzzk/Uxer7BC15tWPL+iUyA9YCYLCQn1PGYe1o503DPm1 MxkTyCXrgrSnUPDSZMKYawiTFKQ34XX9cd6UGtx8tQJEt91HAbYVlVdxHHXXmni8 cjc1Z34KhkfORAtOtCy8gZ2RE9KcbIDJFB1bsp/F8dL5d3wT7j9Y56GnEoFrqHiS gIA+tH4Z9W+us5uv2C6MWLpF/mjQ9T4IHTm4T2GkIdj0rDpDRzfRt/w/lTNG2R0= =yKWO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org