On Thu, Apr 03, 2014 at 06:44:08PM +0200, Takashi Iwai wrote:

At Thu, 03 Apr 2014 18:26:06 +0200, Tobias Klausmann wrote:

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On 03.04.2014 17:45, Greg KH wrote:

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On Thu, Apr 03, 2014 at 12:12:36PM +0200, langkamp@tomblog.de wrote:

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Greg KH hat am 2. April 2014 um 00:37 geschrieben:

On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 12:25:04AM +0200, Tobias Klausmann wrote:

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(snip) >> I'd suggest: >> >> X11:XOrg for Mesa 10.1 >> https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/X11:XOrg/Mesa > $ osc whatdependson openSUSE:13.1 Mesa standard i586 | wc -l > 2003 > > Hah, yeah right, I'm not going to do that, sorry. > >> devel:tools:compiler for llvm 3.4 >> https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/devel:tools:compiler/llvm > I can add this, but is is really used by anyone? It is used to compile parts of/for Mesa, but with you not adding Mesa, it is more or less pointless to add it. Ok, I'll go remove it then, thanks.

greg k-h

Thanks greg for looking into this. I understand that it's too much work? It means I would have to have _all_ of 13.1 in the Tumbleweed repo. Things would be constantly rebuilding. I would have to do a lot more work, and Tumbleweed would be a stand-alone distro image at that point in time.

Hmm that is not right, Tumbleweed would need a subset of the X11:XOrg packages. The smallest amount of pakages would be something like: Mesa xorg-x11-server xf86-{...} drivers libdrm (if there is not the newest version in the 13.1 standard repos)

llvm

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And that's something I've said I was NOT going to do at all every time this has come up in the past.

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Maybe the work would seem worthwhile when we know how many people would like this update. So I opened a request on openFATE:

https://features.opensuse.org/317173

I'll be back when a "reasonable" number of supporters votes this up :) So, it will somehow, because people want this, become more "managable"? That's not how things work, sorry.

If you want the latest Mesa, try it in your own private repo and let me know how it goes. Or use the X11:XOrg repo. But given that this is a low-level library, with almost everything depending on it one way or the other, it is going to be tough going, sorry.

Contrary to your prediction it is always going very smooth, at least with upstream stable builds. Not saying you have to do it, but it is not as much work as you seem to think it is.

I guess the same, too. Although the updating these X and Mesa libraries will trigger the massive rebuilds of packages at each update (I laughed when I looked at zsh being listed in osc whatdependson for Mesa), the impact wouldn't be too severe. There are little applications that communicate with Mesa directly, and the rebuilds would be triggered mostly by the upper layer like cairo, qt3, or tetex; i.e. these triggers might be even skipped, too.

Of course, the fact that it'll result in massive rebuilds remains, so I don't mean to urge Greg for taking them to Tumbleweed immediately. But, we may take a look beyond the shocking numbers shown there.

Yes, the "shocking" numbers are huge, and really util-linux is worse, as I think _every_ package depends on it, and it is in Tumbleweed just fine. But given my inability to debug any crazy xorg library issues that might happen, I'm really leary of adding something like Mesa, or any other core xorg library like it to Tumbleweed. Maybe this long delay cycle between releases is going to stress Tumbleweed like this, or maybe people are just going to have to live with longer release cycles. I don't know. What I do know is that personally, I'm not even using Tumbleweed for my day-to-day desktop or travel system anymore. I'm waiting to see how well the openSUSE project handles the recent changes. Hopefully it will weather it just fine and we will end up without the need for Tumbleweed at all, and everyone who wants a rolling distro can just use Factory. greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Takashi Iwai wrote:

At Thu, 03 Apr 2014 18:26:06 +0200, Tobias Klausmann wrote:

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On 03.04.2014 17:45, Greg KH wrote:

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On Thu, Apr 03, 2014 at 12:12:36PM +0200, langkamp@tomblog.de wrote:

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Greg KH hat am 2. April 2014 um 00:37 geschrieben:

On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 12:25:04AM +0200, Tobias Klausmann wrote:

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(snip) >> I'd suggest: >> >> X11:XOrg for Mesa 10.1 >> https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/X11:XOrg/Mesa > $ osc whatdependson openSUSE:13.1 Mesa standard i586 | wc -l > 2003 > > Hah, yeah right, I'm not going to do that, sorry. > >> devel:tools:compiler for llvm 3.4 >> https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/devel:tools:compiler/llvm > I can add this, but is is really used by anyone? It is used to compile parts of/for Mesa, but with you not adding Mesa, it is more or less pointless to add it. Ok, I'll go remove it then, thanks.

greg k-h

Thanks greg for looking into this. I understand that it's too much work? It means I would have to have _all_ of 13.1 in the Tumbleweed repo. Things would be constantly rebuilding. I would have to do a lot more work, and Tumbleweed would be a stand-alone distro image at that point in time.

Hmm that is not right, Tumbleweed would need a subset of the X11:XOrg packages. The smallest amount of pakages would be something like: Mesa xorg-x11-server xf86-{...} drivers libdrm (if there is not the newest version in the 13.1 standard repos)

llvm

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And that's something I've said I was NOT going to do at all every time this has come up in the past.

...

Maybe the work would seem worthwhile when we know how many people would like this update. So I opened a request on openFATE:

https://features.opensuse.org/317173

I'll be back when a "reasonable" number of supporters votes this up :) So, it will somehow, because people want this, become more "managable"? That's not how things work, sorry.

If you want the latest Mesa, try it in your own private repo and let me know how it goes. Or use the X11:XOrg repo. But given that this is a low-level library, with almost everything depending on it one way or the other, it is going to be tough going, sorry.

Contrary to your prediction it is always going very smooth, at least with upstream stable builds. Not saying you have to do it, but it is not as much work as you seem to think it is.

I guess the same, too. Although the updating these X and Mesa libraries will trigger the massive rebuilds of packages at each update (I laughed when I looked at zsh being listed in osc whatdependson for Mesa), the impact wouldn't be too severe. There are little applications that communicate with Mesa directly, and the rebuilds would be triggered mostly by the upper layer like cairo, qt3, or tetex; i.e. these triggers might be even skipped, too.

Of course, the fact that it'll result in massive rebuilds remains, so I don't mean to urge Greg for taking them to Tumbleweed immediately. But, we may take a look beyond the shocking numbers shown there.

thanks,

Takashi

I think the big issue is every package that has a "dependson Mesa" either directly or indirectly would have to be added tumbleweed. Otherwise the versions built in OSS and OSS-update may not work with the Tumbleweed version. So that's 2,000 packages that would have to be added to Tumbleweed. I totally see why that is unworkable. The real solution is to get Factory stable enough it can be used by people who want to use the latest Mesa. Obviously getting factory to be routinely stable is a massive effort, but that effort is very much underway, so wait a couple months (June or so) and see if factory can fill the bill. Greg (not KH) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org