[opensuse-factory] Patterns Update.
Hi All, I thought i'd give you a quick update on pattern progress, firstly I am about to start splitting the patterns into separate packages, so if you would like to make any changes to patterns in the next week or two let me know so that I can ensure they are not lost. I have created sr:477372 which will hopefully be the last submit to the old combined repo, it makes all the functional changes such as removing all the obsolete patterns and re working the minimal, base and enhanced base platforms (more below), this means that the next set of changes to split into separate packages will be cosmetic only with no functional changes. In order to bring the openSUSE patterns closer to SLE the following packages have been moved, if you feel that something will likely break because of this please let me know (i've worked off the assumption that if SLE works openSUSE should be fine as well in most cases). I'm not interested in any opinions such as I don't like to install "enhanced base" but I like using package X. The contents of the patterns will likely change further in the coming months. From Minimal: Recommends: aaa_base-extras Recommends: bc Recommends: cracklib-dict-small Recommends: deltarpm Recommends: ethtool Recommends: glibc-locale Recommends: haveged Recommends: hdparm Recommends: iputils Recommends: iproute2 Recommends: joe Recommends: less Recommends: lsof Recommends: tnftp Recommends: netcat-openbsd Recommends: nfs-client Recommends: prctl Recommends: rsync Recommends: strace Recommends: sudo Recommends: tcsh Recommends: telnet Recommends: nscd # vim is unfortunately too big nowadays Recommends: vim Recommends: wget Recommends: wol From Base: Requires: hwinfo Requires: kbd Requires: klogd Requires: netcfg Requires: openssh Requires: procps Requires: shadow Requires: sysconfig Requires: rpcbind Requires: systemd-sysvinit Requires: time Requires: util-linux Requires: which Thanks for your time. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
On mardi, 7 mars 2017 04.39:21 h CET Simon Lees wrote:
Hi All,
I thought i'd give you a quick update on pattern progress, firstly I am about to start splitting the patterns into separate packages, so if you would like to make any changes to patterns in the next week or two let me know so that I can ensure they are not lost. Thanks for the report and information
I have created sr:477372 which will hopefully be the last submit to the old combined repo, it makes all the functional changes such as removing all the obsolete patterns and re working the minimal, base and enhanced base platforms (more below), this means that the next set of changes to split into separate packages will be cosmetic only with no functional changes. ok In order to bring the openSUSE patterns closer to SLE the following packages have been moved, if you feel that something will likely break because of this please let me know (i've worked off the assumption that if SLE works openSUSE should be fine as well in most cases). I'm not interested in any opinions such as I don't like to install "enhanced base" but I like using package X. The contents of the patterns will likely change further in the coming months.
I make some remarks below, I hope I've understood your objective.
From Minimal: Recommends: aaa_base-extras Recommends: bc
Recommends: cracklib-dict-small Wouldn't be reinstall by yast when you enter the password ?
Recommends: deltarpm Recommends: ethtool Recommends: glibc-locale
Recommends: haveged Isn't it mandatory to have good entropy ?
Recommends: hdparm Recommends: iputils
Recommends: iproute2 I'm surprised we can remove that one.
Recommends: joe Recommends: less Recommends: lsof zypper need lsof (zypper ps)
Recommends: tnftp Recommends: netcat-openbsd Recommends: nfs-client Recommends: prctl Recommends: rsync Recommends: strace Recommends: sudo Recommends: tcsh Recommends: telnet Recommends: nscd # vim is unfortunately too big nowadays Recommends: vim Recommends: wget Recommends: wol
From Base: Requires: hwinfo Requires: kbd Requires: klogd Requires: netcfg Requires: openssh Requires: procps Requires: shadow Requires: sysconfig Requires: rpcbind Requires: systemd-sysvinit Requires: time Requires: util-linux Requires: which
Thanks for your time.
-- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch Bareos Partner, openSUSE Member, fsfe fellowship GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/07/2017 05:10 PM, Bruno Friedmann wrote:
On mardi, 7 mars 2017 04.39:21 h CET Simon Lees wrote:
Hi All,
I thought i'd give you a quick update on pattern progress, firstly I am about to start splitting the patterns into separate packages, so if you would like to make any changes to patterns in the next week or two let me know so that I can ensure they are not lost. Thanks for the report and information
I have created sr:477372 which will hopefully be the last submit to the old combined repo, it makes all the functional changes such as removing all the obsolete patterns and re working the minimal, base and enhanced base platforms (more below), this means that the next set of changes to split into separate packages will be cosmetic only with no functional changes. ok In order to bring the openSUSE patterns closer to SLE the following packages have been moved, if you feel that something will likely break because of this please let me know (i've worked off the assumption that if SLE works openSUSE should be fine as well in most cases). I'm not interested in any opinions such as I don't like to install "enhanced base" but I like using package X. The contents of the patterns will likely change further in the coming months.
I make some remarks below, I hope I've understood your objective.
From Minimal: Recommends: aaa_base-extras Recommends: bc
Recommends: cracklib-dict-small Wouldn't be reinstall by yast when you enter the password ?
A minimal remotely configured server or container with one role likely won't have yast installed that is the level / usecase we are talking about with these two patterns
Recommends: deltarpm Recommends: ethtool Recommends: glibc-locale
Recommends: haveged Isn't it mandatory to have good entropy ?
not sure on that one, but it doesn't seem to be in the equivalent SLE patterns. It is in the enhanced base though.
Recommends: hdparm Recommends: iputils
Recommends: iproute2 I'm surprised we can remove that one.
Well I guess its probably not required if using wicked.
Recommends: joe Recommends: less Recommends: lsof zypper need lsof (zypper ps)
Looking at zyppers dependencies it seems likely its using procps instead. Either way if its required by zypper, zypper should be explicitly requiring it rather then depending on a pattern pulling it in.
Recommends: tnftp Recommends: netcat-openbsd Recommends: nfs-client Recommends: prctl Recommends: rsync Recommends: strace Recommends: sudo Recommends: tcsh Recommends: telnet Recommends: nscd # vim is unfortunately too big nowadays Recommends: vim Recommends: wget Recommends: wol
From Base: Requires: hwinfo Requires: kbd Requires: klogd Requires: netcfg Requires: openssh Requires: procps Requires: shadow Requires: sysconfig Requires: rpcbind Requires: systemd-sysvinit Requires: time Requires: util-linux Requires: which
Thanks for your time.
-- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
On 07.03.2017 07:40, Bruno Friedmann wrote:
Recommends: haveged Isn't it mandatory to have good entropy ?
No. A container doesn't need it. A VM can get its entropy from the hypervisor. Lots of chipsets have hardware random generators. Most software will work without it, by just using /dev/urandom. Do I install it on almost all machines? Of course. Do i like a really minimal minimal pattern? Even more!
Recommends: lsof zypper need lsof (zypper ps)
But does its job fine without. -- Stefan Seyfried "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 3:40 AM, Bruno Friedmann
Isn't it mandatory to have good entropy ?
Yes.. unfortunately I am not sure how to express the exact dependencies we weed "if cpu_capability includes rdrand or hwrng present then install rng-tools else install haveged" It gets better, apparently rng-tools is no longer required for hwrng on newer kernels and the rng is seeded from rdrand anyway.. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 4:39 Simon Lees wrote:
In order to bring the openSUSE patterns closer to SLE the following packages have been moved, if you feel that something will likely break because of this please let me know (i've worked off the assumption that if SLE works openSUSE should be fine as well in most cases). I'm not interested in any opinions such as I don't like to install "enhanced base" but I like using package X. The contents of the patterns will likely change further in the coming months.
I may be missing some bigger picture but
From Minimal: Recommends: ethtool Recommends: hdparm Recommends: iproute2 Recommends: lsof Recommends: strace
I believe if all goes well, even without these you get a system which can run zypper to install whatever you need/want (actually, I wouldn't be surprised if some system scripts used some of these to query system configuration). But if something goes wrong - and that does happen, no matter how hard you try to avoid it - you don't want be stuck with a system without basic diagnostic tools. So my opinion on these is: would work in theory but most unwise in real life.
Recommends: less
Is it going to earn enough to make it worth anyone trying to view a config (or other text) file throw a curse on you and install less anyway? (Like they already do with "killall".)
# vim is unfortunately too big nowadays Recommends: vim
I hope you left at least one usable editor then.
Recommends: wget
Only if curl (or some other tool allowing to download a file via HTTP and FTP) stays.
From Base: Requires: openssh
I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be the only one who is going to hate you when this is going to bit him/her in the a...
Requires: procps Requires: shadow Requires: util-linux
Call me a dinosaur but I have hard time seeing a system without ps, passwd, fsck, mount/umount, swapon/swapoff or su usable. Michal Kubeček -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/07/2017 05:44 PM, Michal Kubecek wrote:
On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 4:39 Simon Lees wrote:
In order to bring the openSUSE patterns closer to SLE the following packages have been moved, if you feel that something will likely break because of this please let me know (i've worked off the assumption that if SLE works openSUSE should be fine as well in most cases). I'm not interested in any opinions such as I don't like to install "enhanced base" but I like using package X. The contents of the patterns will likely change further in the coming months.
I may be missing some bigger picture but
From Minimal: Recommends: ethtool Recommends: hdparm Recommends: iproute2 Recommends: lsof Recommends: strace
I believe if all goes well, even without these you get a system which can run zypper to install whatever you need/want (actually, I wouldn't be surprised if some system scripts used some of these to query system configuration). But if something goes wrong - and that does happen, no matter how hard you try to avoid it - you don't want be stuck with a system without basic diagnostic tools. So my opinion on these is: would work in theory but most unwise in real life.
Recommends: less
Is it going to earn enough to make it worth anyone trying to view a config (or other text) file throw a curse on you and install less anyway? (Like they already do with "killall".)
# vim is unfortunately too big nowadays Recommends: vim
I hope you left at least one usable editor then.
Recommends: wget
Only if curl (or some other tool allowing to download a file via HTTP and FTP) stays.
From Base: Requires: openssh
I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be the only one who is going to hate you when this is going to bit him/her in the a...
Requires: procps Requires: shadow Requires: util-linux
Call me a dinosaur but I have hard time seeing a system without ps, passwd, fsck, mount/umount, swapon/swapoff or su usable.
In this case it sounds like your the sort of person who will just install the "enhanced base" pattern and be happy to have all the tools your after. This is exactly what we have in SLE at the moment, for clarification i'll post the two pattern descriptions for you, everything i've removed is now in the enhanced base pattern. Minimal: This is the minimal openSUSE runtime system. It is really a minimal system, you can login and a shell will be started, that's all. It is intended as base for Appliances. Base: This is the base runtime system. It contains only a minimal multiuser booting system. For running on real hardware, you need to add additional packages and pattern to make this pattern useful on its own.
Michal Kubeček
-- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
On 07 Mar 18:07, Simon Lees wrote:
On 03/07/2017 05:44 PM, Michal Kubecek wrote:
On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 4:39 Simon Lees wrote:
In order to bring the openSUSE patterns closer to SLE the following packages have been moved, if you feel that something will likely break because of this please let me know (i've worked off the assumption that if SLE works openSUSE should be fine as well in most cases). I'm not interested in any opinions such as I don't like to install "enhanced base" but I like using package X. The contents of the patterns will likely change further in the coming months.
I may be missing some bigger picture but
From Minimal: Recommends: ethtool Recommends: hdparm Recommends: iproute2 Recommends: lsof Recommends: strace
I believe if all goes well, even without these you get a system which can run zypper to install whatever you need/want (actually, I wouldn't be surprised if some system scripts used some of these to query system configuration). But if something goes wrong - and that does happen, no matter how hard you try to avoid it - you don't want be stuck with a system without basic diagnostic tools. So my opinion on these is: would work in theory but most unwise in real life.
Recommends: less
Is it going to earn enough to make it worth anyone trying to view a config (or other text) file throw a curse on you and install less anyway? (Like they already do with "killall".)
# vim is unfortunately too big nowadays Recommends: vim
I hope you left at least one usable editor then.
Recommends: wget
Only if curl (or some other tool allowing to download a file via HTTP and FTP) stays.
From Base: Requires: openssh
I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be the only one who is going to hate you when this is going to bit him/her in the a...
Requires: procps Requires: shadow Requires: util-linux
Call me a dinosaur but I have hard time seeing a system without ps, passwd, fsck, mount/umount, swapon/swapoff or su usable.
In this case it sounds like your the sort of person who will just install the "enhanced base" pattern and be happy to have all the tools your after. This is exactly what we have in SLE at the moment, for clarification i'll post the two pattern descriptions for you, everything i've removed is now in the enhanced base pattern.
Please leave vim in, I am working on a package update which will remove vim's X dependency which should make it a much smaller package. Regards, ismail -- "Türkische Essen ist wirklich lecker, deshalb wir dicke Menschen sind." ~ my wife SUSE Linux GmbH, GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg)
On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 8:37 Simon Lees wrote:
In this case it sounds like your the sort of person who will just install the "enhanced base" pattern and be happy to have all the tools your after. This is exactly what we have in SLE at the moment, for clarification i'll post the two pattern descriptions for you, everything i've removed is now in the enhanced base pattern.
Minimal: This is the minimal openSUSE runtime system. It is really a minimal system, you can login and a shell will be started, that's all. It is intended as base for Appliances.
Base: This is the base runtime system. It contains only a minimal multiuser booting system. For running on real hardware, you need to add additional packages and pattern to make this pattern useful on its own.
As I said in my previous e-mail, this would make sense if we assumed every installation works without problems and ends up installing and configuring everything as intended. This is not the case in real life, unfortunately. I may be biased after spending big part of my career by fixing broken systems but it's really frustrating when you have to invent clever hacks to work around someone kicking out basic diagnostic and configuration tools as expendable. Just imagine zypper not working for whatever reason with your patterns and you need to install another package with your cut-to-the-bone patterns. You can't check your network configuration or fix it by hand (iproute2 and ethtool gone). Even if it works, you don't have wget to download the package, no openssh so forget about sctp/sftp; netcat could be used instead but that also had to go. How about using a flashdisk? Oops, the mount command was also considered expendable... I believe I would find some trick eventually (bash /dev/tcp comes to my mind) but is it reasonable to force users to hack their own systems in such way? Do we really trust our installer to never fail or run into problems in any possible environment? Or do we want to only focus on users who wouldn't be able to handle problems anyway? Should "try running the installer again" be the standard response to installer problems? I don't think so. Michal Kubeček -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/07/2017 06:54 PM, Michal Kubecek wrote:
On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 8:37 Simon Lees wrote:
In this case it sounds like your the sort of person who will just install the "enhanced base" pattern and be happy to have all the tools your after. This is exactly what we have in SLE at the moment, for clarification i'll post the two pattern descriptions for you, everything i've removed is now in the enhanced base pattern.
Minimal: This is the minimal openSUSE runtime system. It is really a minimal system, you can login and a shell will be started, that's all. It is intended as base for Appliances.
Base: This is the base runtime system. It contains only a minimal multiuser booting system. For running on real hardware, you need to add additional packages and pattern to make this pattern useful on its own.
As I said in my previous e-mail, this would make sense if we assumed every installation works without problems and ends up installing and configuring everything as intended. This is not the case in real life, unfortunately. I may be biased after spending big part of my career by fixing broken systems but it's really frustrating when you have to invent clever hacks to work around someone kicking out basic diagnostic and configuration tools as expendable.
As I said previously the "base" pattern is the minimal possible that can be put on hardware or in a VM it is designed for the server farm / large number of instances configured externally usecase it is meant to be as small as possible. This is why we also provide "enhanced base" to provide a more complete usecase, Maybe we could do the following renaming to make people happy minimal => tiny, base => minimal and enhanced base => base. Know one came up with better ideas here other then providing a decent description but renaming these later isn't hard, again for now were taking the SLE names for backward compat. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 9:41 Simon Lees wrote:
On 03/07/2017 06:54 PM, Michal Kubecek wrote:
As I said in my previous e-mail, this would make sense if we assumed every installation works without problems and ends up installing and configuring everything as intended. This is not the case in real life, unfortunately. I may be biased after spending big part of my career by fixing broken systems but it's really frustrating when you have to invent clever hacks to work around someone kicking out basic diagnostic and configuration tools as expendable.
As I said previously the "base" pattern is the minimal possible that can be put on hardware or in a VM it is designed for the server farm / large number of instances configured externally usecase it is meant to be as small as possible. This is why we also provide "enhanced base" to provide a more complete usecase, Maybe we could do the following renaming to make people happy minimal => tiny, base => minimal and enhanced base => base. Know one came up with better ideas here other then providing a decent description but renaming these later isn't hard, again for now were taking the SLE names for backward compat.
Even if renamed, as long as it's presented as minimal system to be extended by extra packages, I'm afraid there will still be people who pick it as a base for their installation and add packages they want but will never expect the installation to lack packages like util-linux, procps or shadow. Perhaps if you add a blinking red warning "beware, this pattern doesn't include even some very basic commands you can't imagine linux system without". (OK, I suppose even with such warning, people would still get hurt but you could say they have been warned.) Michal Kubeček -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/07/2017 07:35 PM, Michal Kubecek wrote:
On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 9:41 Simon Lees wrote:
On 03/07/2017 06:54 PM, Michal Kubecek wrote:
As I said in my previous e-mail, this would make sense if we assumed every installation works without problems and ends up installing and configuring everything as intended. This is not the case in real life, unfortunately. I may be biased after spending big part of my career by fixing broken systems but it's really frustrating when you have to invent clever hacks to work around someone kicking out basic diagnostic and configuration tools as expendable.
As I said previously the "base" pattern is the minimal possible that can be put on hardware or in a VM it is designed for the server farm / large number of instances configured externally usecase it is meant to be as small as possible. This is why we also provide "enhanced base" to provide a more complete usecase, Maybe we could do the following renaming to make people happy minimal => tiny, base => minimal and enhanced base => base. Know one came up with better ideas here other then providing a decent description but renaming these later isn't hard, again for now were taking the SLE names for backward compat.
Even if renamed, as long as it's presented as minimal system to be extended by extra packages, I'm afraid there will still be people who pick it as a base for their installation and add packages they want but will never expect the installation to lack packages like util-linux, procps or shadow. Perhaps if you add a blinking red warning "beware, this pattern doesn't include even some very basic commands you can't imagine linux system without". (OK, I suppose even with such warning, people would still get hurt but you could say they have been warned.)
Michal Kubeček
We have a warning but maybe it could be better, at the same time its also not hard to install further packages / patterns post install so it shouldn't really matter. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 10:29 Simon Lees wrote:
On 03/07/2017 07:35 PM, Michal Kubecek wrote:
Even if renamed, as long as it's presented as minimal system to be extended by extra packages, I'm afraid there will still be people who pick it as a base for their installation and add packages they want but will never expect the installation to lack packages like util-linux, procps or shadow. Perhaps if you add a blinking red warning "beware, this pattern doesn't include even some very basic commands you can't imagine linux system without". (OK, I suppose even with such warning, people would still get hurt but you could say they have been warned.)
We have a warning but maybe it could be better, at the same time its also not hard to install further packages / patterns post install so it shouldn't really matter.
...if all goes well. That's the point I'm trying to make from the start. Michal Kubeček -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 07.03.2017 09:24, Michal Kubecek wrote:
Do we really trust our installer to never fail or run into problems in any possible environment? Or do we want to only focus on users who wouldn't be able to handle problems anyway? Should "try running the installer again" be the standard response to installer problems? I don't think so.
The installer does not run from a minimal installed base pattern, but from snwint's elusively crafted tools selection :-) -- Stefan Seyfried "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 13:32 Stefan Seyfried wrote:
On 07.03.2017 09:24, Michal Kubecek wrote:
Do we really trust our installer to never fail or run into problems in any possible environment? Or do we want to only focus on users who wouldn't be able to handle problems anyway? Should "try running the installer again" be the standard response to installer problems? I don't think so.
The installer does not run from a minimal installed base pattern, but from snwint's elusively crafted tools selection :-)
First part (before reboot) does. Once it reboots, you are left with what was installed. There is still rescue system - but that also seems to be missing more and more essential tools each time I have to use it. Michal Kubeček -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/07/2017 11:16 PM, Michal Kubecek wrote:
On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 13:32 Stefan Seyfried wrote:
On 07.03.2017 09:24, Michal Kubecek wrote:
Do we really trust our installer to never fail or run into problems in any possible environment? Or do we want to only focus on users who wouldn't be able to handle problems anyway? Should "try running the installer again" be the standard response to installer problems? I don't think so.
The installer does not run from a minimal installed base pattern, but from snwint's elusively crafted tools selection :-)
First part (before reboot) does. Once it reboots, you are left with what was installed. There is still rescue system - but that also seems to be missing more and more essential tools each time I have to use it.
Michal Kubeček
I should also point out that if you pick the "Server" option in the openSUSE installer you will still get "Enhanced Base" so in order to have base or minimal you will need to select "Other" in the installer then pick what you want (this is the same process as installing an alternate DE). -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
Michal Kubecek composed on 2017-03-07 08:14 (UTC+0100):
Simon Lees wrote:
# vim is unfortunately too big nowadays Recommends: vim
2600KB
I hope you left at least one usable editor then.
For which definition of "usable"? Joe has been pre-installed in every minimal-class or higher openSUSE install I've done, 1200KB installed. It's not a name I associate with editing, so I de-select it and select Nano, my cross-distro goto when mcedit and filecommander's internal editors are not available. Nano: 1018KB (in Mageia's minimal. Possibly Debian's & Fedora's too, as apropos in these does not show any Joe, but do show both Nano & Pico) Pico: 671KB Ed: 119KB E3: 87KB -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/07/2017 06:26 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
Michal Kubecek composed on 2017-03-07 08:14 (UTC+0100):
Simon Lees wrote:
# vim is unfortunately too big nowadays Recommends: vim
For reference that comment was already there.
2600KB
Vim recommends vim-data which is 25mb
I hope you left at least one usable editor then.
For which definition of "usable"?
Joe has been pre-installed in every minimal-class or higher openSUSE install I've done, 1200KB installed. It's not a name I associate with editing, so I de-select it and select Nano, my cross-distro goto when mcedit and filecommander's internal editors are not available.
Nano: 1018KB (in Mageia's minimal. Possibly Debian's & Fedora's too, as apropos in these does not show any Joe, but do show both Nano & Pico)
Pico: 671KB
Ed: 119KB
E3: 87KB
-- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 8:56 Felix Miata wrote:
Joe has been pre-installed in every minimal-class or higher openSUSE install I've done, 1200KB installed. It's not a name I associate with editing, so I de-select it and select Nano, my cross-distro goto when mcedit and filecommander's internal editors are not available.
The thing is, joe was also on the "to go" list. Michal Kubeček -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 07.03.2017 09:27, Michal Kubecek wrote:
On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 8:56 Felix Miata wrote:
Joe has been pre-installed in every minimal-class or higher openSUSE install I've done, 1200KB installed. It's not a name I associate with editing, so I de-select it and select Nano, my cross-distro goto when mcedit and filecommander's internal editors are not available.
The thing is, joe was also on the "to go" list.
We could just add busybox to the minimal system. 1MB and has almost everything
that was complained about inside.
Yes, you would need to type "busybox ip addr show" if iproute2 is not installed,
but that's something that just needs to be documented.
It even has a usable shell, so bash could go from "minimal"
Hello, On Mar 7 14:09 Simon Lees wrote (excerpt):
i've worked off the assumption that if SLE works openSUSE should be fine as well in most cases ... The contents of the patterns will likely change further in the coming months.
I would wish - if possible - that SLE and openSUSE patterns are exactly the same for same pattern names. openSUSE may have additional patterns but I would wish that at least the basic patterns are exactly the same. I do not understand why the contents of the openSUSE patterns will change (i.e. deviate from the SLE patterns). What is the reason behind why SLE and openSUSE patterns differ and will more and more differ in the future? Kind Regards Johannes Meixner -- SUSE LINUX GmbH - GF: Felix Imendoerffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton - HRB 21284 (AG Nuernberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/07/2017 09:02 PM, Johannes Meixner wrote:
Hello,
On Mar 7 14:09 Simon Lees wrote (excerpt):
i've worked off the assumption that if SLE works openSUSE should be fine as well in most cases ... The contents of the patterns will likely change further in the coming months.
I would wish - if possible - that SLE and openSUSE patterns are exactly the same for same pattern names.
openSUSE may have additional patterns but I would wish that at least the basic patterns are exactly the same.
I do not understand why the contents of the openSUSE patterns will change (i.e. deviate from the SLE patterns).
What is the reason behind why SLE and openSUSE patterns differ and will more and more differ in the future?
Well this is exactly what i'm trying to fix :-) Currently (before today) the openSUSE and SLE patterns were quiet different and no effort was made to keep them close to in sync. Whereas our aim now is to try and use the same patterns between SLE13 and Leap 43, one way were aiming to make this easier to manage is by splitting the patterns into several packages so patterns for desktops such as KDE, Enlightenment, Mate etc that we don't ship for SLE will all be in separate packages. In the cases where we do need some differences openSUSE-releaes/sles-release as an example we will be using %if 0%{?is_opensuse} and friends but the aim is that the Leap/Tumbleweed/SLE patterns are functionally the same at the end. (This is slightly hard as the SLE people haven't yet finalised what specific packages they actually want in the patterns yet).
Kind Regards Johannes Meixner
-- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
Hello, On Mar 7 21:17 Simon Lees wrote (excerpt):
... our aim now is to try and use the same patterns between SLE13 and Leap 43
Hooray! Kind Regards Johannes Meixner -- SUSE LINUX GmbH - GF: Felix Imendoerffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton - HRB 21284 (AG Nuernberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
participants (8)
-
Bruno Friedmann -
Cristian Rodríguez -
Felix Miata -
İsmail Dönmez -
Johannes Meixner -
Michal Kubecek -
Simon Lees -
Stefan Seyfried