On Wed, 27 Jul 2016 10:46, Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar wrote:

Hello everybody,

In an attempt to clean up deprecated packages I stumbled across ConsoleKit, which we still carry in openSUSE:Factory

At this moment, there is actually only one package left that depends on ConsoleKit - the package being lxdm.

Yes, of course, this is part of LXDE, but it is not mandatory to have an OWN display manager for every desktop environment (anyway only one will be active on any given system).

What would be the general feeling of dropping lxdm from the distribution and use lightdm as the 'favorite' DM when installing a lightdm setup afresh? lightdm is also lighweight and is used by a couple other DEs as well, so sharing this would certainly make sense.

And to make it clear: I am not advocating to remove all of LXDE, only the display manager.

Cheers, Dominique

I've used lxdm in the past, before lightdm became a real useable replacement. The "one thing" that made me switch to lightdm was lxdm's dependence on ConsoleKit, as nothing else used it anymore. Thus I'm for a replacement of lxdm with lightdm in the LXDE pattern. Dropping lxdm from (Main-)Factory and Tumbleweed, per principe yes, but how to implement this change? Creating a 'Drop and Replace' package (lxdm to lightdm, remove ConsoleKit)? Or just drop the package and leave the work to the users? - Yamaban. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Hi, Please don't decide this yet. I'm using "something other than GDM/KDM" on my laptop, because it was the only thing that I could get to work with 2 factor auth with google authentiocator. Can't get my hands on my laptop for the next few hours to check what I'm actually using there but it might be lxdm... will be able to check in the evening. cheers Mathias On 27.07.2016 10:46, Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar wrote:

Hello everybody,

In an attempt to clean up deprecated packages I stumbled across ConsoleKit, which we still carry in openSUSE:Factory

At this moment, there is actually only one package left that depends on ConsoleKit - the package being lxdm.

Yes, of course, this is part of LXDE, but it is not mandatory to have an OWN display manager for every desktop environment (anyway only one will be active on any given system).

What would be the general feeling of dropping lxdm from the distribution and use lightdm as the 'favorite' DM when installing a lightdm setup afresh? lightdm is also lighweight and is used by a couple other DEs as well, so sharing this would certainly make sense.

And to make it clear: I am not advocating to remove all of LXDE, only the display manager.

Cheers, Dominique

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Wed, 2016-07-27 at 11:04 +0200, Yamaban wrote:

I've used lxdm in the past, before lightdm became a real useable replacement. The "one thing" that made me switch to lightdm was lxdm's dependence on ConsoleKit, as nothing else used it anymore.

Sp the same argument that lead me to propose its removal - we pull in the same direction

Thus I'm for a replacement of lxdm with lightdm in the LXDE pattern.

Dropping lxdm from (Main-)Factory and Tumbleweed, per principe yes, but how to implement this change?

What's the difference between Factory and Tumbleweed? :) ok that's a trick question.. there is no difference: the first was renamed to the 2nd in Nov 2014. But the 'how' is certainly an interesting topic and I'm glad you bring it up. I would do the folllowing steps: * change the lxde pattern (and install control files) to use lightdm instead of lxdm * obsolete lxdm by lightdm * in lightdm's post script have it change the values in /etc/sysconfig/displaymanager: when it detects lxdm, switch it to lightdm. That's very similar to what it does on install to ensure it takes over from xdm. * Delete lxdm from openSUSE:Factory * Delete ConsoleKit from openSUSE:Factory (this will be auto-added to the WeakRemove list of openSUSE-release, which is being interpreted on zypper dup - the correct way to manage a Tumbleweed installation). Feel free to extend this list of tasks if you see something I missed (which is likely) Cheers, Dominique

On mercredi, 27 juillet 2016 11.16:45 h CEST Mathias Homann wrote:

Hi,

Please don't decide this yet. I'm using "something other than GDM/KDM" on my laptop, because it was the only thing that I could get to work with 2 factor auth with google authentiocator. Can't get my hands on my laptop for the next few hours to check what I'm actually using there but it might be lxdm... will be able to check in the evening.

cheers

Mathias

Do get to stressed, osc sr delete will have an sr which should be reviewed then goes to openQA (see my ironic smile here) and then published. In the meantime if you're not sure and have it installed and used on your lappy you can still put a lock on it the time you test and start using alternatives. ;-) -- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch Bareos Partner, openSUSE Member, fsfe fellowship GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Am 27.07.2016 um 11:24 schrieb Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar:

* Delete lxdm from openSUSE:Factory

+delete the _link file in the devel prj. Olaf

Vojtěch Zeisek schrieb:

Dne středa 27. července 2016 11:18:21 CEST, Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar napsal(a):

...

On Wed, 2016-07-27 at 11:11 +0200, jcsl wrote:

...

LXDM can work with or without ConsoleKit. Indeed the version in X11:lxde is built without ConsoleKit since April 2015.

https://build.opensuse.org/package/view_file/X11:lxde/lxdm/ lxdm.changes?expand=1

The officially released version (4.1) is prehistoric.

Sure - I have to base my findings on the stuff I have in the distro - and lxdm has a bad taste in my mouth as this was updated in the past and reverted because it never worked on first boot... and the maintainer's proposed 'just reboot - it works on 2nd boot' is still not an acceptable situation for a distro...

So as we carry a pre-historic version anyway - I'd say dropping it is the right thing to do

which leaves us with - how do we do it.

May I shift the thread a bit? I thought replacement of LXDE by LXQt is quickly approaching. I tried the version from X11:LXQt on 42.1 and it was working well. It is good choice for old netbooks and so on. So my question is what is the current state of that replacement?

If it's going to be replaced does it make sense to promote LXDE as desktop selection in the install still? How well maintained is it anyways? cu Ludwig -- (o_ Ludwig Nussel //\ V_/_ http://www.suse.com/ SUSE Linux GmbH, GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Am Mittwoch, 27. Juli 2016, 11:16:45 schrieb Mathias Homann:

Hi,

Please don't decide this yet. I'm using "something other than GDM/KDM" on my laptop, because it was the only thing that I could get to work with 2 factor auth with google authentiocator. Can't get my hands on my laptop for the next few hours to check what I'm actually using there but it might be lxdm... will be able to check in the evening.

Checked: it's lightdm. I'm fine with removing lxdm in the future :) Cheers MH -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Hi all, I don't think Lightdm is good substitute for lxdm ... Lightdm upstream is going toward to Mir. without any focus for XOrg or Wayland On 27 July 2016 at 18:30, Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar wrote:

On Wed, 2016-07-27 at 18:09 +0200, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:

...

I'm not any insider and I'm unable to say anything about maintenance status. But http://lxqt.org/about/ and https://en.opensuse.org/LXQT say it clearly, I think. Wording at lxde.org is bit confusing in this aspect, I'd say, but newer posts are about LxQt and there seems to be no new recent version of LXDE. https://en.opensuse.org/LXDE also seems outdated. The development is slow, but it works fine, I like it on netbook (otherwise I use KDE). See also https:// github.com/lxde Yes, I'd expect LXDE being replaced by LXQt in openSUSE. Am I wrong?

LXQt is indeed going to replace LXDE, that's out of question... just it seems: * The LXQt maintainers do not consider it ready for prime use * The LXDE Maintainers have not more interest beyond: it works for now.

Which is exactly why my post was about removing LXDM and not LXDE. Of course LXDM is a 'part' of LXDE, but the DE can very well be started from another DM - and removing lxdm allows us to finally also get rid of ConsoleKit. Frankly speaking, I'm not even sure if CK even still does what it was supposed to do originally.

In Tumbleweed, LXDE and LXQt are available for installation (and both are minimally tested in openQA).

Cheers, Dominique -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 07/28/2016 05:43 AM, Ondřej Súkup wrote:

Hi all,

I don't think Lightdm is good substitute for lxdm ... Lightdm upstream is going toward to Mir. without any focus for XOrg or Wayland

5 minutes of googling lead me to http://blog.davidedmundson.co.uk/blog/lightdm-mir-wayland which clearly states while Canonical is a major contributor they are not the main upstream author and the main upstream author has indicated that he's working towards wayland. Currently the Enlightenment, XFCE and Mate patterns all install lightdm so if it were to break under X11 and upstream had no plan to fix it there would be bigger issues to sort out. The fact that all the other similar smaller DE's are also using lightdm at the moment on the other hand makes for a pretty good reason to swap. LXQt is still using XDM but i'll chat to the maintainer about swapping to lightdm as well, having a Qt based lightdm greater that didn't pull in the kde stack as dependencies would probably help here as well. At some point in the not to distant future i'll start looking at enlightenment + wayland and that might lead me on a path to see if there are other lighter display managers that already support wayland if lightdm doesn't or if there isn't and lightdm is close i'll probably just be lazy and use gdm in the interim. If you hadn't guessed yet I have no issues with removing lxdm.

On 27 July 2016 at 18:30, Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar wrote:

...

On Wed, 2016-07-27 at 18:09 +0200, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:

...

I'm not any insider and I'm unable to say anything about maintenance status. But http://lxqt.org/about/ and https://en.opensuse.org/LXQT say it clearly, I think. Wording at lxde.org is bit confusing in this aspect, I'd say, but newer posts are about LxQt and there seems to be no new recent version of LXDE. https://en.opensuse.org/LXDE also seems outdated. The development is slow, but it works fine, I like it on netbook (otherwise I use KDE). See also https:// github.com/lxde Yes, I'd expect LXDE being replaced by LXQt in openSUSE. Am I wrong?

LXQt is indeed going to replace LXDE, that's out of question... just it seems: * The LXQt maintainers do not consider it ready for prime use * The LXDE Maintainers have not more interest beyond: it works for now.

Which is exactly why my post was about removing LXDM and not LXDE. Of course LXDM is a 'part' of LXDE, but the DE can very well be started from another DM - and removing lxdm allows us to finally also get rid of ConsoleKit. Frankly speaking, I'm not even sure if CK even still does what it was supposed to do originally.

In Tumbleweed, LXDE and LXQt are available for installation (and both are minimally tested in openQA).

Cheers, Dominique

-- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adeliade Australia, UTC+9:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B

As far as I know from the LXDE official blog, developers from LXDE never see LXQt as a "replacement" of LXDE, and neither LXDE would cease development. LXQt is a project merged from LXDE and razor-qt, as developers from both projects felt that they have a common ground and therefore should pull resources together. On the other hand, LXDE developers are still maintaining their GTK apps, they even planned to port some of them to GTK3. I would say both projects would co-exist for some time in the future. On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 8:56 AM, Simon Lees wrote:

On 07/28/2016 05:43 AM, Ondřej Súkup wrote:

...

Hi all,

I don't think Lightdm is good substitute for lxdm ... Lightdm upstream is going toward to Mir. without any focus for XOrg or Wayland

5 minutes of googling lead me to http://blog.davidedmundson.co.uk/blog/lightdm-mir-wayland which clearly states while Canonical is a major contributor they are not the main upstream author and the main upstream author has indicated that he's working towards wayland.

Currently the Enlightenment, XFCE and Mate patterns all install lightdm so if it were to break under X11 and upstream had no plan to fix it there would be bigger issues to sort out. The fact that all the other similar smaller DE's are also using lightdm at the moment on the other hand makes for a pretty good reason to swap. LXQt is still using XDM but i'll chat to the maintainer about swapping to lightdm as well, having a Qt based lightdm greater that didn't pull in the kde stack as dependencies would probably help here as well.

At some point in the not to distant future i'll start looking at enlightenment + wayland and that might lead me on a path to see if there are other lighter display managers that already support wayland if lightdm doesn't or if there isn't and lightdm is close i'll probably just be lazy and use gdm in the interim.

If you hadn't guessed yet I have no issues with removing lxdm.

...

On 27 July 2016 at 18:30, Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar wrote:

...

On Wed, 2016-07-27 at 18:09 +0200, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:

...

I'm not any insider and I'm unable to say anything about maintenance status. But http://lxqt.org/about/ and https://en.opensuse.org/LXQT say it clearly, I think. Wording at lxde.org is bit confusing in this aspect, I'd say, but newer posts are about LxQt and there seems to be no new recent version of LXDE. https://en.opensuse.org/LXDE also seems outdated. The development is slow, but it works fine, I like it on netbook (otherwise I use KDE). See also https:// github.com/lxde Yes, I'd expect LXDE being replaced by LXQt in openSUSE. Am I wrong?

LXQt is indeed going to replace LXDE, that's out of question... just it seems: * The LXQt maintainers do not consider it ready for prime use * The LXDE Maintainers have not more interest beyond: it works for now.

Which is exactly why my post was about removing LXDM and not LXDE. Of course LXDM is a 'part' of LXDE, but the DE can very well be started from another DM - and removing lxdm allows us to finally also get rid of ConsoleKit. Frankly speaking, I'm not even sure if CK even still does what it was supposed to do originally.

In Tumbleweed, LXDE and LXQt are available for installation (and both are minimally tested in openQA).

Cheers, Dominique

--

Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net

Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adeliade Australia, UTC+9:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Hi, sorry for jumping in so late. On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 10:04:39 +0800 Chun Yu Charlie CHAN <10014705@life.hkbu.edu.hk> wrote:

As far as I know from the LXDE official blog, developers from LXDE never see LXQt as a "replacement" of LXDE, and neither LXDE would cease development.

LXQt is a project merged from LXDE and razor-qt, as developers from both projects felt that they have a common ground and therefore should pull resources together. On the other hand, LXDE developers are still maintaining their GTK apps, they even planned to port some of them to GTK3.

I would say both projects would co-exist for some time in the future.

That's totally right. PCMan one of the driving forces behind LXDE at some point started to experiment with Qt and created LXDE-Qt. After a while razor-qt, a similar project with the goal of a minimal DE written in Qt and LXDE-Qt (the playground of PCMan) merged since both had few developers. LXDE guys usually heavily protest if one sais LXQt is the replacement for LXDE, as this never was their plan. I am maintaining LXQt on openSUSE, where I took over from Andrea and SFalken who both told me that they have almost no time for the project anymore. They were also the primary maintainers of LXDE. Since they left LXDE is not really maintained in openSUSE anymore. I have rights for X11:lxde but only because initially LXQt components lived in that project. Later I created X11:LXQt to have it more separated. I am in contact with LXQt upstream and take care of it in openSUSE but have not contact with LXDE at all. If there come submit requests to X11:LXDE I try to take care of them but actually I am not actively maintaining it. As for the original question: I really don't mind dropping lxdm ;-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org