On 14/07/12 21:18, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2012-07-14 09:36, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

I do not use any other language other than UK English. And yet everytime I use the openSUSE version of Firefox - OR Thunderbird for that matter - I get this message that there is an upgrade to the Brazilian Portuguese language available!

I do not use the CDs to install, but it is known that they contain few languages but these get installed, contrary to what happens with the DVD install. Thus, you have to manually uninstall the languages you do not want.

Sorry my friend Carlos, but I installed 12.1 from the DVD when 12.1 was released and this Brazilian Portuguese kept wanting to be updated. Not to mention that all the other languages were also automatically installed in both FF and TB, but the BP was the only one which kept wanting to be updated :-( . So, the bottom line is that this has nothing to do with installing from the CD. BC -- Using openSUSE 12.2 x86_64 KDE 4.8.4 & kernel 3.4.4.2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 14/07/12 22:57, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

Am 14.07.2012 13:34, schrieb Basil Chupin:

...

On 14/07/12 21:18, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 2012-07-14 09:36, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

I do not use any other language other than UK English. And yet everytime I use the openSUSE version of Firefox - OR Thunderbird for that matter - I get this message that there is an upgrade to the Brazilian Portuguese language available! I do not use the CDs to install, but it is known that they contain few languages but these get installed, contrary to what happens with the DVD install. Thus, you have to manually uninstall the languages you do not want. Sorry my friend Carlos, but I installed 12.1 from the DVD when 12.1 was released and this Brazilian Portuguese kept wanting to be updated. Not to mention that all the other languages were also automatically installed in both FF and TB, but the BP was the only one which kept wanting to be updated :-( . So, the bottom line is that this has nothing to do with installing from the CD. I never heard about the issue that portuguese wants to update itself before. This is indeed a bit strange since language addons most likely have no update notification at all.

Firefox in openSUSE is packaged so there exist: MozillaFirefox-translations-common MozillaFirefox-translations-other

which of those will get installed depends on what languages are installed in your openSUSE system in general. Usually en_US installations do not get any *-translations* packages installed (and it's certainly the case on my test system). Back then we decided to not package every single locale in an extra package but have them bundled together in "common" and "other" languages.

Wolfgang

I only ever use UK English as my language when installing openSUSE. Here is what I have in my Add-ons for Firefox: http://picpaste.com/ff-languages-3RXT4PGr.png I would dearly love to know how to actually get rid of all the languages shown here instead of simply having them "disabled". BC -- Using openSUSE 12.2 x86_64 KDE 4.8.4 & kernel 3.4.4.2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 15/07/12 00:10, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 2012-07-14 16:08, Basil Chupin wrote:

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I would dearly love to know how to actually get rid of all the languages shown here instead of simply having them "disabled". Yast, uninstall those packages :-)

Okey-dokey.......which ones? :-) http://picpaste.com/ff-languages2-QUbbaUTX.png BC -- Using openSUSE 12.2 x86_64 KDE 4.8.4 & kernel 3.4.4.2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 15/07/12 16:23, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

Am 15.07.2012 06:51, schrieb Basil Chupin:

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On 15/07/12 00:10, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 2012-07-14 16:08, Basil Chupin wrote:

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I would dearly love to know how to actually get rid of all the languages shown here instead of simply having them "disabled". Yast, uninstall those packages :-)

Okey-dokey.......which ones? :-)

http://picpaste.com/ff-languages2-QUbbaUTX.png MozillaFirefox-translations-common

And BTW this gets installed automatically in your system because it apparently is set up to use en_GB which is part of that package. If you remove the package you "only" get en_US ;-)

Wolfgang Oh m****....this US English rubbish has a lot to answer for! :-)

Whoa! hold on! "...it apparently is set up to use en_GB which is part of that package. If you remove the package you "only" get en_US" Are you saying that if I remove this "translations-common" rpm I will end up with that abomination called US English?! (Please say that I am wrong in interpreting what you wrote - please :-( .) BC -- Using openSUSE 12.2 x86_64 KDE 4.8.4 & kernel 3.4.4.2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Am 15.07.2012 15:02, schrieb Carlos E. R.:

On 2012-07-15 08:40, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

Whoa! hold on!

...

"...it apparently is set up to use en_GB which is part of that package. If you remove the package you "only" get en_US"

...

Are you saying that if I remove this "translations-common" rpm I will end up with that abomination called US English?!

...

(Please say that I am wrong in interpreting what you wrote - please :-( .)

No, that's absolutely right :-)

Yesterday I installed RC1 (in vmplayer), build 50, and just now I'm looking at my addons: I have none installed. Corrections: no language installed. I might have at least the Spanish one, but no.

I used the DVD and I installed XFCE. What happened to you, that you came up with all those languages installed I can't understand. Maybe someone using the KDE live CD can verify the same problem?

What you have to do now is disable, an then remove, all those plugins, one by one... which is very tedious but I don't know a method to automate that.

Interestingly, even though I specified I wanted Spanish as an extra language, the translations-common rpm was not installed. I'm forcing it now. [...] Installed, and I still do not see those addons... ah! It is in the languages tab. Right... what a pain. Yes, I can replicate your problem indeed. I disabled them all in a minute.

I don't get why you guys have a problem with them being available? They do not cause any harm (I'd be aware of) but makes life a lot easier for some people/configurations. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Am 15.07.2012 17:08, schrieb Carlos E. R.:

On 2012-07-15 16:48, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

...

I don't get why you guys have a problem with them being available? They do not cause any harm (I'd be aware of) but makes life a lot easier for some people/configurations.

Well, I never saw it, so I'm not used to the idea. In my work system (11.4) I don't have the package installed, instead I download the Spanish language dictionary add-on, manually.

The problem is having so many add-ons loaded, they check for updates and want to update themselves.

No, they don't (unless there is some strange bug). After a version upgrade of Firefox they might get checked one time but I hardly notice that here (as someone having -common installed and in use). Linux still is a multi user system and we want to provide the common languages on a machine. Therefore this is the best approach IMHO. Anyway people who do not like that can still block *-translations-* and install language packs in their own profile. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Hi there, On Sun, 15 Jul 2012, 17:32:18 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2012-07-15 17:13, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

...

Am 15.07.2012 17:08, schrieb Carlos E. R.:

...

No, they don't (unless there is some strange bug). After a version upgrade of Firefox they might get checked one time but I hardly notice that here (as someone having -common installed and in use). Linux still is a multi user system and we want to provide the common languages on a machine. Therefore this is the best approach IMHO. Anyway people who do not like that can still block *-translations-* and install language packs in their own profile.

I don't know, I don't an opinion yet.

Maybe I'd like the addons not to be enabled by default, just only installed.

Yeah, I've faced this several times now, too, and I always thought, why I should have to deactivate lots of language packs in the first place. I agree with Carlos that the stuff should just be installed, and whenever you need _one_ additional language, just go there and activate _one_ -- instead of having to deactivate lots... Cheers. l8er manfred -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Sun, 15 Jul 2012, 18:40:29 +0200, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

Am 15.07.2012 17:44, schrieb Manfred Hollstein:

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Hi there,

On Sun, 15 Jul 2012, 17:32:18 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 2012-07-15 17:13, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

...

Am 15.07.2012 17:08, schrieb Carlos E. R.:

...

No, they don't (unless there is some strange bug). After a version upgrade of Firefox they might get checked one time but I hardly notice that here (as someone having -common installed and in use). Linux still is a multi user system and we want to provide the common languages on a machine. Therefore this is the best approach IMHO. Anyway people who do not like that can still block *-translations-* and install language packs in their own profile.

I don't know, I don't an opinion yet.

Maybe I'd like the addons not to be enabled by default, just only installed.

Yeah, I've faced this several times now, too, and I always thought, why I should have to deactivate lots of language packs in the first place. I agree with Carlos that the stuff should just be installed, and whenever you need _one_ additional language, just go there and activate _one_ -- instead of having to deactivate lots...

I still don't understand why you would disable them? I never do that and I do not face any issues. If they are disabled Firefox wouldn't be able to use them dynamically given that Firefox on openSUSE uses the user's locale by default (if installed and enabled). Why would I expect the user to enable and switch to the one he actually can expect to be used by default anyway (as all other applications under Linux usually)?

IIRC, my daughters were trapped at some point in time by Firefox not honoring the LANG environment variable; when I found out that so many language extenstions had been installed, I told them to try disabling most of them, and it worked. That was the basic reason for me to always disable them...

Wolfgang

HTH, cheers. l8er manfred -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Am 15.07.2012 20:37, schrieb Carlos E. R.:

On 2012-07-15 19:59, Manfred Hollstein wrote:

...

IIRC, my daughters were trapped at some point in time by Firefox not honoring the LANG environment variable; when I found out that so many language extenstions had been installed, I told them to try disabling most of them, and it worked. That was the basic reason for me to always disable them...

I have a feeling, I don't really know how FF works.

There is a difference in how most Linux apps have several languages: most of them load the requested files on start, only one language. All are installed, and the appropriate one is loaded when needed. But FF has all plugins loaded all time...

Indeed you do not know how FF works. _Locales_ are not loaded all time. Only the active locale is loaded. Just that you see that languages are enabled does not mean they are loaded. What you currently see on openSUSE is exactly what you get "most Linux apps". FF loads the system language and uses it. Nothing less nothing more. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 16/07/12 00:48, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

Am 15.07.2012 15:02, schrieb Carlos E. R.:

...

On 2012-07-15 08:40, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

Whoa! hold on! "...it apparently is set up to use en_GB which is part of that package. If you remove the package you "only" get en_US" Are you saying that if I remove this "translations-common" rpm I will end up with that abomination called US English?! (Please say that I am wrong in interpreting what you wrote - please :-( .) No, that's absolutely right :-)

Yesterday I installed RC1 (in vmplayer), build 50, and just now I'm looking at my addons: I have none installed. Corrections: no language installed. I might have at least the Spanish one, but no.

I used the DVD and I installed XFCE. What happened to you, that you came up with all those languages installed I can't understand. Maybe someone using the KDE live CD can verify the same problem?

What you have to do now is disable, an then remove, all those plugins, one by one... which is very tedious but I don't know a method to automate that.

Interestingly, even though I specified I wanted Spanish as an extra language, the translations-common rpm was not installed. I'm forcing it now. [...] Installed, and I still do not see those addons... ah! It is in the languages tab. Right... what a pain. Yes, I can replicate your problem indeed. I disabled them all in a minute. I don't get why you guys have a problem with them being available? They do not cause any harm (I'd be aware of) but makes life a lot easier for some people/configurations.

Wolfgang

Well, for one thing it is having 32.6MB of space being taken up by what is not required - except for the one language which is used by the user. When I install openSUSE I am asked which language I want to use. I answer UK English - and that is the only language I expect see on my system, but instead when get 32.6MB of "stuff" installed by default when Firefox is installed by default. And to add 'insult to injury' ( :-) ) I get messages popping up that the Brazilian Portuguese (Hello, Nelson! :-) ) language has an update to be downloaded. Now, I ask you, how many times can the Brazilian Portuguese language change in a month/year? :-) BC -- Using openSUSE 12.2 x86_64 KDE 4.8.4 & kernel 3.4.4.2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Hi, Am 16.07.2012 07:19, schrieb Basil Chupin:

Well, for one thing it is having 32.6MB of space being taken up by what is not required - except for the one language which is used by the user.

That's the reason why we have two packages. What you suggest is to have one RPM for every locale. Yes, that's possible but is it worth the effort? If I check /usr/share/locale I see languages installed I never have chosen myself. So it's a trade off and you didn't convince me to change the packaging of Firefox (or Thunderbird) in that respect yet.

And to add 'insult to injury' ( :-) ) I get messages popping up that the Brazilian Portuguese (Hello, Nelson! :-) ) language has an update to be downloaded. Now, I ask you, how many times can the Brazilian Portuguese language change in a month/year? :-)

This is a bug I'm not able to reproduce and therefore I guess it's related to your system configuration/profile. My pt-BR language pack has not even an update URL defined in its install.rdf. Therefore something is messed up for that language pack for you and my crystal ball is somehow gone to tell you what. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 16/07/12 04:37, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 2012-07-15 19:59, Manfred Hollstein wrote:

...

IIRC, my daughters were trapped at some point in time by Firefox not honoring the LANG environment variable; when I found out that so many language extenstions had been installed, I told them to try disabling most of them, and it worked. That was the basic reason for me to always disable them... I have a feeling, I don't really know how FF works.

There is a difference in how most Linux apps have several languages: most of them load the requested files on start, only one language. All are installed, and the appropriate one is loaded when needed. But FF has all plugins loaded all time...

However, see my reply to Wolfgang of a few minutes ago. One has to be a bit careful when talking about Firefox (or Thunderbird as well I suppose): one needs to spell out if FF comes from openSUSE or directly from Mozilla. FF from Mozilla knows nothing about what openSUSE has added in their wisdom, and therefore FF 16.0a1, which I am now using, knows nothing about the Languages which the oS FF 13.0.1 is showing. BC -- Using openSUSE 12.2 x86_64 KDE 4.8.4 & kernel 3.4.4.2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Am 16.07.2012 08:43, schrieb Basil Chupin:

On 16/07/12 04:37, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

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On 2012-07-15 19:59, Manfred Hollstein wrote:

...

IIRC, my daughters were trapped at some point in time by Firefox not honoring the LANG environment variable; when I found out that so many language extenstions had been installed, I told them to try disabling most of them, and it worked. That was the basic reason for me to always disable them... I have a feeling, I don't really know how FF works.

There is a difference in how most Linux apps have several languages: most of them load the requested files on start, only one language. All are installed, and the appropriate one is loaded when needed. But FF has all plugins loaded all time...

However, see my reply to Wolfgang of a few minutes ago. One has to be a bit careful when talking about Firefox (or Thunderbird as well I suppose): one needs to spell out if FF comes from openSUSE or directly from Mozilla. FF from Mozilla knows nothing about what openSUSE has added in their wisdom, and therefore FF 16.0a1, which I am now using, knows nothing about the Languages which the oS FF 13.0.1 is showing.

So if you are so confident that my packages are not useful just don't use them (or help to make them better) and please stop spreading FUD. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 16/07/12 16:50, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

Am 16.07.2012 08:43, schrieb Basil Chupin:

...

On 16/07/12 04:37, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

On 2012-07-15 19:59, Manfred Hollstein wrote:

...

IIRC, my daughters were trapped at some point in time by Firefox not honoring the LANG environment variable; when I found out that so many language extenstions had been installed, I told them to try disabling most of them, and it worked. That was the basic reason for me to always disable them... I have a feeling, I don't really know how FF works.

There is a difference in how most Linux apps have several languages: most of them load the requested files on start, only one language. All are installed, and the appropriate one is loaded when needed. But FF has all plugins loaded all time... However, see my reply to Wolfgang of a few minutes ago. One has to be a bit careful when talking about Firefox (or Thunderbird as well I suppose): one needs to spell out if FF comes from openSUSE or directly from Mozilla. FF from Mozilla knows nothing about what openSUSE has added in their wisdom, and therefore FF 16.0a1, which I am now using, knows nothing about the Languages which the oS FF 13.0.1 is showing. So if you are so confident that my packages are not useful just don't use them (or help to make them better) and please stop spreading FUD.

Wolfgang

What ARE you talking about!? "..spreading FUD"!? "Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt"?! WHERE, Wolfgang? Spell out the exact wording, thanks. Suggesting that when talking about Firefox in this thread, and what it may or may not be doing, and to take into account which version of FF one is talking about, whether it comes from openSUSE or installed directly from mozilla.org in the form of a Nightly, is FUD?! :'( -- Using openSUSE 12.2 x86_64 KDE 4.8.4 & kernel 3.4.4.2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 16/07/12 16:26, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

Hi,

...

Well, for one thing it is having 32.6MB of space being taken up by what is not required - except for the one language which is used by the user. That's the reason why we have two packages. What you suggest is to have one RPM for every locale. Yes, that's

Am 16.07.2012 07:19, schrieb Basil Chupin: possible but is it worth the effort? If I check /usr/share/locale I see languages installed I never have chosen myself. So it's a trade off and you didn't convince me to change the packaging of Firefox (or Thunderbird) in that respect yet.

...

And to add 'insult to injury' ( :-) ) I get messages popping up that the Brazilian Portuguese (Hello, Nelson! :-) ) language has an update to be downloaded. Now, I ask you, how many times can the Brazilian Portuguese language change in a month/year? :-) This is a bug I'm not able to reproduce and therefore I guess it's related to your system configuration/profile.

But of course..... I live in Australia. I have always installed FF with the English language -GB/UK if I had the choice; or the US if I had no other choice as when using the Nightly Builds from mozilla.org. So why in any way, shape or form would I ever want to install anything to do with the Brazilian Portuguese Language?! (Or does this have something to do with my typing in "brazilian" in wikipedia to see what a "brazilian", or "landing strip", looks like?)

My pt-BR language pack has not even an update URL defined in its install.rdf. Therefore something is messed up for that language pack for you and my crystal ball is somehow gone to tell you what.

I am not a programmer. You have the knowledge and the ability. I do not. I am simply an end user. I install and I use. As a consequence of this, I am even at a worse position than you are regarding having a crystal ball about why this is happening with the Language pack re Brazilian Portuguese in the openSUSE installation of Firefox 13.0.1 in RC1 KDE LIVE CD Build #53.

Wolfgang BC

-- Using openSUSE 12.2 x86_64 KDE 4.8.4 & kernel 3.4.4.2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Am 16.07.2012 09:53, schrieb Basil Chupin:

Well, for chrissake, FF from mozilla does NOT recognise

MozillaFirefox-translations-common

which come from-

Vendor: openSUSE openSUSE

Right? Yes or No?

Yes

Or am I missing something here?

The point. You were talking snarky about my work as "in openSUSE's wisdom" because I do not think you meant it by word. Otherwise thanks for your praise about my wisdom. Now can we get back to the technical details please and you open a fate request and/or a bugreport for your real issues instead of talking endlessly about your opinions? Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 16.07.2012 07:19, Basil Chupin wrote:

When I install openSUSE I am asked which language I want to use. I answer UK English - and that is the only language I expect see on my system, but instead when get 32.6MB of "stuff" installed by default when Firefox is installed by default.

This is just not how free software ships translations - most come with all supported languages in one go. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 07:08:46PM +1000, Basil Chupin wrote: [ 8< ]

I shall now use the (shudder) American basket-ball expression, "Time out! Time out!" :-)

This whole discussion is going off into the absolutely wrong and useless direction.

What I have written so far has nothing to do with questioning your effort re Firefox - or anything other contribution you may be making.

If you read carefully what I have written so far contains nothing questioning your efforts.

But I think that you have taken some of the comments personally, for some reason.

Nothing is further from the truth.

Pax.

Don't you, Basil, see that you're doing the same again and again? With kids I'm very, very tolerant. Honestly I don't know how to handle you best. You mixed Firefox binaries provided from different vendors and blamed the openSUSE Firefox made by Wolfgang for things going wrong at your end. As soon as he describes that this isn't longer fun to him the discussion is going into the absolutely wrong and useless direction for you. Why not stating instead I'm sorry if you got my statement as a critic to the quality of your work? A bit more respect to the very good work many people here are doing is what I expect from everyone. And a bit less destructive but instead productive contributions is what I like to see. Here on this list we're all from different countries and for many of us the English language isn't the native one. This plus the nature of non verbal communication might lead to the situation that people are getting a comment different than they had been intended by the writer. Therefore all these are additional reasons to be extra careful with the words we're using here. Please read this and don't reply any further. Or with other words: end of thread and back to work. There are still some things broken with openSUSE 12.2. Let us all focus our energy to make it a good release. Thanks, Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team + SUSE Labs SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday, 2012-07-16 at 15:46 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

What you have to do now is disable, an then remove, all those plugins, one by one...

Which is exactly what I asked to begin with: how does one REMOVE these "plugins" "one by one" or otherwise? :-)

As the picpaste URL shows, the darn things are disabled. But how do you REMOVE them? (apart from zapping the translations rpm)

Yes, I saw that as well when I installed the common languages rpm in my test system. By the way: it is indeed the custom in Linux to install all languages, so that any user can choose his language instantly. The difference is that normal Linux programs do it via the gettext mechanism, whereas FF does it via plugins (which I still suspect are loaded from start, that's how plugins work normally). In any way, for a program such as, say, "man", if the (say) Portuguese (say) translation was updated, you would get an update for the entire man rpm with all languages packed: this is how Linux does things. There are no rpm packages for the different languages (the biggest file is 8 KiB). The FF packed for openSUSE is no different in that respect. There are a few exceptions: large pieces of software pack languages separately, like libreoffice or KDE. I don't remember what gnome does. The difference is that in FF it is FF itself who wants the update, and in the case of man, it would be YOU, quietly.

Oh, BTW, I don't know if you noticed it or not (and I certainly didn't see it when I captured that page) but in the screen-grab you will see that the Brazilian Portuguese plugin is wanting to be updated!

Ah, right. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlAEKAcACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WUigCeI8adO6zahMQ3/ijLZAWo4m1L 49MAn1wGHk4VGrj2pFDqwGHBHkMvdsY6 =9fFj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 16/07/12 22:05, Lars Müller wrote:

On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 07:08:46PM +1000, Basil Chupin wrote: [ 8< ]

...

I shall now use the (shudder) American basket-ball expression, "Time out! Time out!" :-)

This whole discussion is going off into the absolutely wrong and useless direction.

What I have written so far has nothing to do with questioning your effort re Firefox - or anything other contribution you may be making.

If you read carefully what I have written so far contains nothing questioning your efforts.

But I think that you have taken some of the comments personally, for some reason.

Nothing is further from the truth.

Pax. Don't you, Basil, see that you're doing the same again and again?

With kids I'm very, very tolerant. Honestly I don't know how to handle you best.

For a grown up, you have the bull by the tail. It is very difficult to handle a grown up person when they are facing the facts from the wrong end. Have you read what I wrote or have you just simply blundered in into this conversation with a set agenda in mind? I installed 12.2 RC1 using the KDE LIVE CD. It was a CLEAN, fresh, install. Firefox 13.0.1 was installed by default during this installation process. Is there anything to this point that you are unable to understand or did not understand? Nothing? Good. Let's go on. When I started Firefox I found that Firefox wanted to update the Brazilian Portuguese language. Are you still with me or have I lost you at this point? No? Still with me? Good. I looked in the Add-ons - a copy of which I posted on picpaste - and found a host of languages which I did not need or use because I installed openSUSE 12.2 RC1 with the British/UK English language. At this point I posted my message which started this whole thread. Have you understood all this so far? Nothing I have said so far has befuddled/confused/disoriented you? Still with me, are you? Yes? Good, let's go on. I also use the Nightly Builds of Firefox (and Thunderbird) from mozilla.org - the the current Nightly I am using is 16.0a.1 - and when I ran this I found that there were NO additional languages showing; following this, I wrote that the FF from mozilla knows nothing about the translations-common rpm which came with RC1 and therefore all those languages did not appear. Haven't lost you at this point, and you have understood what I just wrote? Yes - No? If No then reread what I have written so far and digest it. If Yes then I will go on. Where in anything I have written previously or above have I shown or expressed any derision, disparagement, or complained about Wolfgang's efforts re Firefox? (Do you know what the words, "derision", "disparagement", "complained", I just used mean?) Please spell out chapter and verse where I have "attacked" - for want of a better expression - Wolfgang's well recognised and appreciated work on Firefox? Come on, grown-up person, show me where. [.................] BC -- Using openSUSE 12.2 x86_64 KDE 4.8.4 & kernel 3.4.4.2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 17/07/12 00:15, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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Content-ID:

On Monday, 2012-07-16 at 14:05 +0200, Lars Müller wrote:

...

You mixed Firefox binaries provided from different vendors and blamed the openSUSE Firefox made by Wolfgang for things going wrong at your end. As soon as he describes that this isn't longer fun to him the discussion is going into the absolutely wrong and useless direction for you. Why not stating instead I'm sorry if you got my statement as a critic to the quality of your work?

Maybe he did not express himself correctly, but I understand he installed both versions for comparisson. I did not read disrespect, but he might have choosen better words.

"..but he might have choosen [sic] better words." And these would be..... what exactly? BC -- Using openSUSE 12.2 x86_64 KDE 4.8.4 & kernel 3.4.4.2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

* Basil Chupin [07-17-12 01:12]: ...

For a grown up, you have the bull by the tail. It is very difficult to handle a grown up person when they are facing the facts from the wrong end.

Have you read what I wrote or have you just simply blundered in into this conversation with a set agenda in mind? ... Is there anything to this point that you are unable to understand or did not understand? Nothing? Good. Let's go on. ... Are you still with me or have I lost you at this point? No? Still with me? Good. ... Have you understood all this so far? Nothing I have said so far has befuddled/confused/disoriented you? Still with me, are you? Yes? Good, let's go on. ... Haven't lost you at this point, and you have understood what I just wrote? Yes - No?

If No then reread what I have written so far and digest it.

If Yes then I will go on.

Where in anything I have written previously or above have I shown or expressed any derision, disparagement, or complained about Wolfgang's efforts re Firefox?

(Do you know what the words, "derision", "disparagement", "complained", I just used mean?)

Please spell out chapter and verse where I have "attacked" - for want of a better expression - Wolfgang's well recognised and appreciated work on Firefox?

Come on, grown-up person, show me where.

You have undoubtedly succeeded in alienating those *most* able to help/answer you. Your tone and comments would be inappropriate in addressing a 10-year-old, let along an adult. You took a sledge hammer to a meeting with the school principle and found him carring a 9mm. :^) Arrogance might be present..... -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Whatabout a bug report to proper track this issue? Regards, Luiz 2012/7/17 Carlos E. R. :

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On 2012-07-17 07:29, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

On 17/07/12 00:15, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On Monday, 2012-07-16 at 14:05 +0200, Lars Müller wrote:

...

You mixed Firefox binaries provided from different vendors and blamed the openSUSE Firefox made by Wolfgang for things going wrong at your end. As soon as he describes that this isn't longer fun to him the discussion is going into the absolutely wrong and useless direction for you. Why not stating instead I'm sorry if you got my statement as a critic to the quality of your work?

Maybe he did not express himself correctly, but I understand he installed both versions for comparisson. I did not read disrespect, but he might have choosen better words.

"..but he might have choosen [sic] better words."

And these would be..... what exactly?

You said:

+++·················· However, see my reply to Wolfgang of a few minutes ago. One has to be a bit careful when talking about Firefox (or Thunderbird as well I suppose): one needs to spell out if FF comes from openSUSE or directly from Mozilla. FF from Mozilla knows nothing about what openSUSE has added in their wisdom, and therefore FF 16.0a1, which I am now using, knows nothing about the Languages which the oS FF 13.0.1 is showing. ··················++-

The part about “their wisdom”, they may have taken badly to that expression. :-)

It was certainly that paragraph which started the fighting, rightly or wrongly.

- -- Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar)

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On 17/07/12 23:20, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 2012-07-17 07:29, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

On 17/07/12 00:15, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On Monday, 2012-07-16 at 14:05 +0200, Lars Müller wrote:

...

You mixed Firefox binaries provided from different vendors and blamed the openSUSE Firefox made by Wolfgang for things going wrong at your end. As soon as he describes that this isn't longer fun to him the discussion is going into the absolutely wrong and useless direction for you. Why not stating instead I'm sorry if you got my statement as a critic to the quality of your work? Maybe he did not express himself correctly, but I understand he installed both versions for comparisson. I did not read disrespect, but he might have choosen better words. "..but he might have choosen [sic] better words."

And these would be..... what exactly? You said:

+++·················· However, see my reply to Wolfgang of a few minutes ago. One has to be a bit careful when talking about Firefox (or Thunderbird as well I suppose): one needs to spell out if FF comes from openSUSE or directly from Mozilla. FF from Mozilla knows nothing about what openSUSE has added in their wisdom, and therefore FF 16.0a1, which I am now using, knows nothing about the Languages which the oS FF 13.0.1 is showing. ··················++-

The part about “their wisdom”, they may have taken badly to that expression. :-)

It was certainly that paragraph which started the fighting, rightly or wrongly.

That's it?! That is all it takes for some people to spit the dummy and go into a corner and sulk, as well as pontificate on how they are ever *so* tolerant with children?! :-) "..added in their wisdom." My god, I shall never use this term again if this is what is regarded as a derogatory term - especially since it contains "*their* wisdom" - a plural word - and not (the singular) "in his(/her) wisdom". Mea culpa. To all, I unreservedly apologise for using the term "..in their wisdom..". I shall now wear sack cloth and kneel on ashes, as well as flagellate, 4 times a day. Oh, I thought I saw a post by Patrick in this thread so I had better go and read that now before I commit myself to any further actions to pay for my sins..... BC -- Using openSUSE 12.2 x86_64 KDE 4.8.4 & kernel 3.4.4.2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 17/07/12 21:20, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Basil Chupin [07-17-12 01:12]: ...

...

For a grown up, you have the bull by the tail. It is very difficult to handle a grown up person when they are facing the facts from the wrong end.

Have you read what I wrote or have you just simply blundered in into this conversation with a set agenda in mind? [........]

...

Please spell out chapter and verse where I have "attacked" - for want of a better expression - Wolfgang's well recognised and appreciated work on Firefox?

Come on, grown-up person, show me where. You have undoubtedly succeeded in alienating those *most* able to help/answer you. Your tone and comments would be inappropriate in addressing a 10-year-old, let along an adult. You took a sledge hammer to a meeting with the school principle and found him carring a 9mm. :^) Arrogance might be present.....

Aaah, my old friend the Mail List Cop, Patrick :-) . Tell me, Luiz Fernando Ranghetti replied to my post by top posting his response and yet, while I know that this is one of your pet hates which makes you go into frenzied action, why didn't you you didn't question his naughty behaviour (which contradicts the rules and your own interpretation of those rules)? Selective about what you "get all stirred up about"? I can clearly see why you have no objections with what Lars said to me, "With kids I'm very, very tolerant. Honestly I don't know how to handle you best." and which is no way of an alienating nature to anyone. But, naturally, you are able to clearly see why I should not be alienated by what he said to me. But, then, that's the way your mind works - which is fine with me. Nevertheless I must thank you for your, as ever incisive, well thought out and unbiased, response. BC PS This whole thread has now gone way over into the realms of puerility. Anybody wants to take this further then take the thread to opensuse offtopic. HOWEVER, if you want to respond to any of this in this thread then I will respond here. You write to me in private, I will always respond in private. You post something in public, I will always respond in public, -- Using openSUSE 12.2 x86_64 KDE 4.8.4 & kernel 3.4.4.2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

2012/7/20 Basil Chupin :

Totally ignoring the fact that the above post contains a top posted response - which is in my nature to ignore such things - what would be the subject of the bug report required to bug report what Carlos wrote above?

Just curious, that's all.

BC

Sorry about the top post ;-) Regards, Luiz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org