[opensuse-factory] design question
After installing a package why not ask if the user wants to install or remove more packages before bringing up the YaST2 Writing the system configuration? This would save a lot of time and make things faster when multiple uses of Software Management is going to happen I would think. Cheers, Bob -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 14 November 2008 01:09:31 pm Robert Lewis wrote:
After installing a package why not ask if the user wants to install or remove more packages before bringing up the YaST2 Writing the system configuration?
This would save a lot of time and make things faster when multiple uses of Software Management is going to happen I would think.
Cheers, Bob
You can always install more packages at once by selecting them in package selection screens and when done press Accept to install them. Package management will remember all your selections and run whole installation at once, including all configuration scripts, at once. It is doing the same as you would like, just in different order. The question is meant only to help you skip repository initialization phase that was lengthy process up to openSUSE 11.0. Now it can be removed as repository refresh on start is what is wanted for repositories like Packman that change often. The only hassle with 11.1 was bug that will crash YaST Software Management if user switch from one selection screen to the other, but it should be fixed in libzypp-5.16.0. I have to install Beta 5 to see what libzypp is included, as in version Beta 4 bug was still there. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Robert Lewis schreef:
After installing a package why not ask if the user wants to install or remove more packages before bringing up the YaST2 Writing the system configuration?
Worse is that Yast Softwaremanagement, also when called separately, just disappears after having done the updates asked. So if you want to do some more, one has to call the program again. This behaviour is new in the 11.1 series, up till then Yast did indeed ask the user whether he/she wanted to install more packages. I didn't find a bug about this in bugzilla, so I'm inclined to file one. But before doing so, I would like to ask developers if this is behaviour by design, and if yes, why? regards, Jogchum Reitsma -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2008-11-14 at 19:38 -0600, Rajko M. wrote:
The question is meant only to help you skip repository initialization phase that was lengthy process up to openSUSE 11.0. Now it can be removed as repository refresh on start is what is wanted for repositories like Packman that change often.
Not that fast - I still prefer to be asked if I want to install more things before it exits. Saves time when you discover you do want some more thing to install. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkkenGUACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UEFgCfdE2TrIEGWjf1RyAm3gdn8w6K kdoAni+2OcGOdvDQJTxjjVj3DA2LILzW =grHy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Jogchum Reitsma wrote:
Robert Lewis schreef:
After installing a package why not ask if the user wants to install or remove more packages before bringing up the YaST2 Writing the system configuration?
Worse is that Yast Softwaremanagement, also when called separately, just disappears after having done the updates asked. So if you want to do some more, one has to call the program again.
This behaviour is new in the 11.1 series, up till then Yast did indeed ask the user whether he/she wanted to install more packages.
I didn't find a bug about this in bugzilla, so I'm inclined to file one.
But before doing so, I would like to ask developers if this is behaviour by design, and if yes, why?
regards, Jogchum Reitsma
You can look at https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=431854 to get an idea how the devs feel about this. IMHO closing after completion isn't that bad, you only have to click software management again instead of the message box that used to display and after completion of a long install you don't have to click the box to close yast. Regards Dave P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Dave Plater schreef:
Jogchum Reitsma wrote:
Worse is that Yast Softwaremanagement, also when called separately, just disappears after having done the updates asked. So if you want to do some more, one has to call the program again.
This behaviour is new in the 11.1 series, up till then Yast did indeed ask the user whether he/she wanted to install more packages.
I didn't find a bug about this in bugzilla, so I'm inclined to file one.
But before doing so, I would like to ask developers if this is behaviour by design, and if yes, why?
regards, Jogchum Reitsma
You can look at https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=431854 to get an idea how the devs feel about this. IMHO closing after completion isn't that bad, you only have to click software management again instead of the message box that used to display and after completion of a long install you don't have to click the box to close yast. Regards Dave P
Hmm, I overlooked this bug apparently... I've made a comment, stating I disagree completely with this decision, and crying out "So please, please, give me back the pop-up!" regards, Jogchum Reitsma -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 15 November 2008 03:54:43 am Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Friday, 2008-11-14 at 19:38 -0600, Rajko M. wrote:
.. it can be removed ...
Not that fast - I still prefer to be asked if I want to install more things before it exits. Saves time when you discover you do want some more thing to install.
"Can" is not "should" ;-) I need that question as a sign that all is completed correctly, without crash in between, but essentially the same effect would be to give user software selection screen again. BTW, button "Accept" should be "OK", because everywhere else confirming action is "OK", and exit without changes is "Cancel". Why is here different? -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2008-11-15 at 11:24 +0100, Jogchum Reitsma wrote:
You can look at https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=431854 to get an idea how the devs feel about this. IMHO closing after completion isn't that bad, you only have to click software management again instead of the message box that used to display and after completion of a long install you don't have to click the box to close yast.
Hmm, I overlooked this bug apparently...
I've made a comment, stating I disagree completely with this decision, and crying out
Me too. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkkesw0ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VKLgCaA4Cae5QqBcJKowoxYxxRypTA e7sAn0sRhCO9PDNS1EhO6KbHpHm52zfE =8Pt4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 15 November 2008 05:31:21 am Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Saturday, 2008-11-15 at 11:24 +0100, Jogchum Reitsma wrote:
You can look at https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=431854 to get an idea how the devs feel about this. IMHO closing after completion isn't that bad, you only have to click software management again instead of the message box that used to display and after completion of a long install you don't have to click the box to close yast.
Hmm, I overlooked this bug apparently...
I've made a comment, stating I disagree completely with this decision, and crying out
Me too.
Me not. I don't want popup, but simple back to selection screen. Well, message that installation was OK is beneficial, but let me decide when I'm done. So far I recall it was behavior before package management ran into problems with long refresh cycle. We had before users confused with sudden exit from package management, and sincerely as this is Beta, I thought it was a bug. Package management will lock automatic update, but I'm already taking care of software, so auto update can wait. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2008-11-15 at 05:58 -0600, Rajko M. wrote:
I've made a comment, stating I disagree completely with this decision, and crying out
Me too.
Me not.
I don't want popup, but simple back to selection screen.
Return to the selection screen is also acceptable to me. But I prefer being told that everything went OK first. Package management is critical app.
Well, message that installation was OK is beneficial, but let me decide when I'm done. So far I recall it was behavior before package management ran into problems with long refresh cycle.
We had before users confused with sudden exit from package management, and sincerely as this is Beta, I thought it was a bug.
I know of sometimes it exited because it had crashed.
Package management will lock automatic update, but I'm already taking care of software, so auto update can wait.
Absolutely. That reminds me, that if I manually start the package management, and this stops because the automatic gadget is running, I would like an option to stop the gadget and give preference to YaST, instead of having to wait. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkkexcMACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WWtACeKgA1+U2R2ZJ+Zxu/lV3NrkN+ ihEAn0lXJmYNEIcQHH1qdRFWbE+9RH6K =oRME -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Saturday, 2008-11-15 at 05:58 -0600, Rajko M. wrote:
I've made a comment, stating I disagree completely with this decision, and crying out
Me too.
Me not.
I don't want popup, but simple back to selection screen.
Return to the selection screen is also acceptable to me. But I prefer being told that everything went OK first. Package management is critical app.
Well, message that installation was OK is beneficial, but let me decide when I'm done. So far I recall it was behavior before package management ran into problems with long refresh cycle.
We had before users confused with sudden exit from package management, and sincerely as this is Beta, I thought it was a bug.
I know of sometimes it exited because it had crashed.
Package management will lock automatic update, but I'm already taking care of software, so auto update can wait.
Absolutely. That reminds me, that if I manually start the package management, and this stops because the automatic gadget is running, I would like an option to stop the gadget and give preference to YaST, instead of having to wait.
-- Cheers, Carlos E. R.
Something like k3b does, if another application like kiocd has control it gives you the option to kill it. Nice, you should put in an enhancement request and post the number so as I can vote. Regards Dave P Dave P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 15 November 2008 07:43:26 am Dave Plater wrote:
Something like k3b does, if another application like kiocd has control it gives you the option to kill it. Nice, you should put in an enhancement request and post the number so as I can vote.
Not good. Killing another application using software database can be dangerous. Joy of having instantly available Software Management can be spoiled with broken state of the system ;-) -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Sat November 15 2008 8:44:00 am Rajko M. wrote:
On Saturday 15 November 2008 07:43:26 am Dave Plater wrote:
Something like k3b does, if another application like kiocd has control it gives you the option to kill it. Nice, you should put in an enhancement request and post the number so as I can vote.
Not good. Killing another application using software database can be dangerous. Joy of having instantly available Software Management can be spoiled with broken state of the system ;-)
-- Regards, Rajko
Have Yast send a 'signal' to the updater that says 'quit what you are doing and exit'. Then the updater can shut down gracefully. This can be done as part of the Yast message saying it can't start the software management. It is preferable to having the user go to 'top' and killing the updater cold which is what many do, dangerous or not because they don't want to wait for the updater that often seems to take 'days' to complete. When I am at the console doing maintenance on the system, *I* should have the higest priority, after all, in that portion of Yast, *I* am root and root shouldn't have to wait for an automatic program that always seems to be running when one least needs/wants it. If the updater can break my system when shut down for any reason, then it is broken IMO. No matter what, it should always shut down gracefullly and without damaging my system or have a good recovery mechanism (in case of failure during a power outage, etc) for the times the system is 'spoiled'/sensitive. EG, backup the files that might get 'broken' or spoiled by a unscheduled shut-down, do the update, then erase the emergency backup/recover files. It runs so long now, the extra few seconds/minutes won't make that much difference. The point is that the root should always have the priority aver automated/background processes started automatically. Richard Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2008-11-15 at 07:44 -0600, Rajko M. wrote:
On Saturday 15 November 2008 07:43:26 am Dave Plater wrote:
Something like k3b does, if another application like kiocd has control it gives you the option to kill it. Nice, you should put in an enhancement request and post the number so as I can vote.
Not good. Killing another application using software database can be dangerous. Joy of having instantly available Software Management can be spoiled with broken state of the system ;-)
A normal kill is really a kind request to do suicide, and the application can refuse to die. Thus a normal "kill" would not destroy data, or should not. The package management tool would have time to close files and exit. And of course, some more graceful way could be designed. Both YaST and the applet use the same database and libs, so there could be a mechanism to tell the other app to get out of the way, or perhaps to collaborate: after all, if it is updating the database, perhaps it is wise to wait till the other finishes and be told when to continue automatically. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkkfKL8ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XCHgCfdNuQ+AiQrVLeMuVaISti7Yp8 NnEAn1FYRV47OZKmeiH7JGyu0AEzoPC7 =a17u -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Rajko M. wrote:
On Saturday 15 November 2008 05:31:21 am Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Saturday, 2008-11-15 at 11:24 +0100, Jogchum Reitsma wrote:
You can look at https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=431854 to get an idea how the devs feel about this. IMHO closing after completion isn't that bad, you only have to click software management again instead of the message box that used to display and after completion of a long install you don't have to click the box to close yast. Hmm, I overlooked this bug apparently...
I've made a comment, stating I disagree completely with this decision, and crying out Me too.
Me not.
I don't want popup, but simple back to selection screen. Well, message that installation was OK is beneficial, but let me decide when I'm done. So far I recall it was behavior before package management ran into problems with long refresh cycle.
We had before users confused with sudden exit from package management, and sincerely as this is Beta, I thought it was a bug.
Package management will lock automatic update, but I'm already taking care of software, so auto update can wait.
The current way is less efficient and a step backwards beyond time - it assumes that the previous selection is all you need, like Oliver Twist said, "Please Sir, I want some more". Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support Specialist, Cricket Coach Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Dave Plater wrote:
Jogchum Reitsma wrote:
Robert Lewis schreef:
After installing a package why not ask if the user wants to install or remove more packages before bringing up the YaST2 Writing the system configuration?
Worse is that Yast Softwaremanagement, also when called separately, just disappears after having done the updates asked. So if you want to do some more, one has to call the program again.
This behaviour is new in the 11.1 series, up till then Yast did indeed ask the user whether he/she wanted to install more packages.
I didn't find a bug about this in bugzilla, so I'm inclined to file one.
But before doing so, I would like to ask developers if this is behaviour by design, and if yes, why?
regards, Jogchum Reitsma
You can look at https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=431854 to get an idea how the devs feel about this. IMHO closing after completion isn't that bad, you only have to click software management again instead of the message box that used to display and after completion of a long install you don't have to click the box to close yast. Regards Dave P
Or simply leaving some type of wall message that everything went OK would be alright as well. Just something to say the update/install you started before leaving completed without any errors. For me I don't mind either way as long as we get that feedback without having to go digging in the logs. Anybody can dig in the logs and find out, but it just takes too much time -- if it can be avoided. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. | Rankin Law Firm, PLLC | Countdown for openSuSE 11.1 510 Ochiltree Street | http://counter.opensuse.org/11.1/small Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 | Telephone: (936) 715-9333 | openSoftware und SystemEntwicklung Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 | http://www.opensuse.org/ www.rankinlawfirm.com | -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
David C. Rankin wrote:
Dave Plater wrote:
Jogchum Reitsma wrote:
Robert Lewis schreef:
After installing a package why not ask if the user wants to install or remove more packages before bringing up the YaST2 Writing the system configuration?
Worse is that Yast Softwaremanagement, also when called separately, just disappears after having done the updates asked. So if you want to do some more, one has to call the program again.
This behaviour is new in the 11.1 series, up till then Yast did indeed ask the user whether he/she wanted to install more packages.
I didn't find a bug about this in bugzilla, so I'm inclined to file one.
But before doing so, I would like to ask developers if this is behaviour by design, and if yes, why?
regards, Jogchum Reitsma
You can look at https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=431854 to get an idea how the devs feel about this. IMHO closing after completion isn't that bad, you only have to click software management again instead of the message box that used to display and after completion of a long install you don't have to click the box to close yast. Regards Dave P
Or simply leaving some type of wall message that everything went OK would be alright as well. Just something to say the update/install you started before leaving completed without any errors. For me I don't mind either way as long as we get that feedback without having to go digging in the logs. Anybody can dig in the logs and find out, but it just takes too much time -- if it can be avoided.
They broke something that worked, worked well and has been an established method. What we have now is like a store that closes up after serving one customer, forcing the next to ring a door bell. It disrupts the workflow pattern for no good reason. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support Specialist, Cricket Coach Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 16 November 2008 07:05:11 am Sid Boyce wrote:
Or simply leaving some type of wall message that everything went OK would be alright as well. Just something to say the update/install you started before leaving completed without any errors. For me I don't mind either way as long as we get that feedback without having to go digging in the logs. Anybody can dig in the logs and find out, but it just takes too much time -- if it can be avoided.
They broke something that worked, worked well and has been an established method. What we have now is like a store that closes up after serving one customer, forcing the next to ring a door bell. It disrupts the workflow pattern for no good reason.
:-) Good example. I don't like popup window. We already had problems with popup behind main window. Besides popup frame depends on used window manager and can spoil esthetics, like all poppus during installation do. Beautiful Beta5 installer screens and fvwm2 square popups don't fit togeather. Probably the best would be to leave one line below those few that report script execution, telling user that all was OK, and 2 buttons "Continue" and "End" in the bottom right corner. The same functionality as popup, but consistent look and feel. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
* Rajko M.
Probably the best would be to leave one line below those few that report script execution, telling user that all was OK, and 2 buttons "Continue" and "End" in the bottom right corner. The same functionality as popup, but consistent look and feel.
+1 -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Rajko M. wrote:
On Sunday 16 November 2008 07:05:11 am Sid Boyce wrote:
Or simply leaving some type of wall message that everything went OK would be alright as well. Just something to say the update/install you started before leaving completed without any errors. For me I don't mind either way as long as we get that feedback without having to go digging in the logs. Anybody can dig in the logs and find out, but it just takes too much time -- if it can be avoided. They broke something that worked, worked well and has been an established method. What we have now is like a store that closes up after serving one customer, forcing the next to ring a door bell. It disrupts the workflow pattern for no good reason.
:-) Good example.
I don't like popup window. We already had problems with popup behind main window. Besides popup frame depends on used window manager and can spoil esthetics, like all poppus during installation do. Beautiful Beta5 installer screens and fvwm2 square popups don't fit togeather.
Probably the best would be to leave one line below those few that report script execution, telling user that all was OK, and 2 buttons "Continue" and "End" in the bottom right corner. The same functionality as popup, but consistent look and feel.
No problem with that suggestion as it essentially restores the original functionality. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support Specialist, Cricket Coach Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 15 November 2008 10:27:07 Jogchum Reitsma wrote:
Robert Lewis schreef:
After installing a package why not ask if the user wants to install or remove more packages before bringing up the YaST2 Writing the system configuration?
Worse is that Yast Softwaremanagement, also when called separately, just disappears after having done the updates asked. So if you want to do some more, one has to call the program again.
This behaviour is new in the 11.1 series, up till then Yast did indeed ask the user whether he/she wanted to install more packages.
I didn't find a bug about this in bugzilla, so I'm inclined to file one.
But before doing so, I would like to ask developers if this is behaviour by design, and if yes, why?
In fact, we restored the old behavior from 10.0. The popup was just a workaround for awfully slow start up of the SW management module. The issue with the popup is that there are different expectations. Some people play a lot with installing/removing packages, others just want to install the app (fire & forget). Overall, this is not about the popup or closing a window at the end of a transacation, this is about use cases and how to address them. I can imagine that the use case where people want to simply install an appliaction will be covered by PackageKit apps, while YaST will stay as an expert tool and there it would make sense to return to the package selector screen after the transaction. Stano -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 15 November 2008 20:53:33 Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Saturday, 2008-11-15 at 07:44 -0600, Rajko M. wrote:
On Saturday 15 November 2008 07:43:26 am Dave Plater wrote:
Something like k3b does, if another application like kiocd has control it gives you the option to kill it. Nice, you should put in an enhancement request and post the number so as I can vote.
Not good. Killing another application using software database can be dangerous. Joy of having instantly available Software Management can be spoiled with broken state of the system ;-)
A normal kill is really a kind request to do suicide, and the application can refuse to die. Thus a normal "kill" would not destroy data, or should not. The package management tool would have time to close files and exit.
This is possible if you are in package selector, but if the transaction or refresh is running, this is in principle impossible in short time.
And of course, some more graceful way could be designed. Both YaST and the applet use the same database and libs, so there could be a mechanism to tell the other app to get out of the way, or perhaps to collaborate: after all, if it is updating the database, perhaps it is wise to wait till the other finishes and be told when to continue automatically.
The current lock is all-or-nothing. There is an experimental implementation of read/write locking, but this is not enabled in 11.1. Anyway, I'd like to avoid overengineering the solution as there is no right way to fix all the possible scenarios. Stano -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 15 November 2008 18:59:33 Richard wrote:
On Sat November 15 2008 8:44:00 am Rajko M. wrote:
On Saturday 15 November 2008 07:43:26 am Dave Plater wrote:
Something like k3b does, if another application like kiocd has control it gives you the option to kill it. Nice, you should put in an enhancement request and post the number so as I can vote.
Not good. Killing another application using software database can be dangerous. Joy of having instantly available Software Management can be spoiled with broken state of the system ;-)
-- Regards, Rajko
Have Yast send a 'signal' to the updater that says 'quit what you are doing and exit'. Then the updater can shut down gracefully. This can be done as part of the Yast message saying it can't start the software management. It is preferable to having the user go to 'top' and killing the updater cold which is what many do, dangerous or not because they don't want to wait for the updater that often seems to take 'days' to complete. When I am at the console doing maintenance on the system, *I* should have the higest priority, after all, in that portion of Yast, *I* am root and root shouldn't have to wait for an automatic program that always seems to be running when one least needs/wants it.
You can already ask packagekitd to shut down via dbus. But there is no guarantee that it will really shut down. Killing it may lead to a system corruption as mentioned elsewhere. Stano
If the updater can break my system when shut down for any reason, then it is broken IMO. No matter what, it should always shut down gracefullly and without damaging my system or have a good recovery mechanism (in case of failure during a power outage, etc) for the times the system is 'spoiled'/sensitive. EG, backup the files that might get 'broken' or spoiled by a unscheduled shut-down, do the update, then erase the emergency backup/recover files. It runs so long now, the extra few seconds/minutes won't make that much difference. The point is that the root should always have the priority aver automated/background processes started automatically.
Richard Richard
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 16 November 2008 14:05:11 Sid Boyce wrote:
David C. Rankin wrote:
Dave Plater wrote:
Jogchum Reitsma wrote:
Robert Lewis schreef:
After installing a package why not ask if the user wants to install or remove more packages before bringing up the YaST2 Writing the system configuration?
Worse is that Yast Softwaremanagement, also when called separately, just disappears after having done the updates asked. So if you want to do some more, one has to call the program again.
This behaviour is new in the 11.1 series, up till then Yast did indeed ask the user whether he/she wanted to install more packages.
I didn't find a bug about this in bugzilla, so I'm inclined to file one.
But before doing so, I would like to ask developers if this is behaviour by design, and if yes, why?
regards, Jogchum Reitsma
You can look at https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=431854 to get an idea how the devs feel about this. IMHO closing after completion isn't that bad, you only have to click software management again instead of the message box that used to display and after completion of a long install you don't have to click the box to close yast. Regards Dave P
Or simply leaving some type of wall message that everything went OK would be alright as well. Just something to say the update/install you started before leaving completed without any errors. For me I don't mind either way as long as we get that feedback without having to go digging in the logs. Anybody can dig in the logs and find out, but it just takes too much time -- if it can be avoided.
They broke something that worked, worked well and has been an established method. What we have now is like a store that closes up after serving one customer, forcing the next to ring a door bell. It disrupts the workflow pattern for no good reason.
Nope. We changed a behavior you got used to. Stano -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue November 18 2008 8:00:37 am Stanislav Visnovsky wrote:
On Saturday 15 November 2008 18:59:33 Richard wrote:
On Sat November 15 2008 8:44:00 am Rajko M. wrote:
On Saturday 15 November 2008 07:43:26 am Dave Plater wrote:
Something like k3b does, if another application like kiocd has control it gives you the option to kill it. Nice, you should put in an enhancement request and post the number so as I can vote.
Not good. Killing another application using software database can be dangerous. Joy of having instantly available Software Management can be spoiled with broken state of the system ;-)
-- Regards, Rajko
Have Yast send a 'signal' to the updater that says 'quit what you are doing and exit'. Then the updater can shut down gracefully. This can be done as part of the Yast message saying it can't start the software management. It is preferable to having the user go to 'top' and killing the updater cold which is what many do, dangerous or not because they don't want to wait for the updater that often seems to take 'days' to complete. When I am at the console doing maintenance on the system, *I* should have the higest priority, after all, in that portion of Yast, *I* am root and root shouldn't have to wait for an automatic program that always seems to be running when one least needs/wants it.
You can already ask packagekitd to shut down via dbus. But there is no guarantee that it will really shut down. Killing it may lead to a system corruption as mentioned elsewhere.
Stano
... AS CURRENTLY IMPLEMENTED, that may be true, but the thrust of this is that the updater (*any* program or service for that matter) should be implemented in a way so as to shutdown gracefully if the ROOT so dictates. It would be dangerous for the root to issue an 'erase everything' command also, but as the root he is wearing the 'god' hat (little 'g') and unlike Windoze, must be responsible for the operation and health of the system, NOT Redmond or other entity. If the updater and Yast can 'talk' and coordinate more efficiently, the the perils of a sudden, cold shutoff are reduced or eliminated. The root is, or should be, willing to take the risk that the software might fail. Software does that, you know. The root is taking a risk by running *any* software on the machine, having 'friendly' software just makes it less risky. As stated, currently the updater can and often does create inordinate delays and the root should not have to wait on a 'service' type program. It may be the root is wanting to remove the very programs the updater would be about to update. It is the roots' system, not the developers of the OS software or utilities. Richard
If the updater can break my system when shut down for any reason, then it is broken IMO. No matter what, it should always shut down gracefullly and without damaging my system or have a good recovery mechanism (in case of failure during a power outage, etc) for the times the system is 'spoiled'/sensitive. EG, backup the files that might get 'broken' or spoiled by a unscheduled shut-down, do the update, then erase the emergency backup/recover files. It runs so long now, the extra few seconds/minutes won't make that much difference. The point is that the root should always have the priority aver automated/background processes started automatically.
Richard Richard
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue November 18 2008 8:01:41 am Stanislav Visnovsky wrote:
They broke something that worked, worked well and has been an established method. What we have now is like a store that closes up after serving one customer, forcing the next to ring a door bell. It disrupts the workflow pattern for no good reason.
Nope. We changed a behavior you got used to.
Stano
... but you didn't replace it with a better way. Failing that, you shouldn't change the behavior of software that has worked well long enough to 'get used to'. Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Stanislav Visnovsky wrote:
On Saturday 15 November 2008 10:27:07 Jogchum Reitsma wrote:
Robert Lewis schreef: ... I didn't find a bug about this in bugzilla, so I'm inclined to file one.
But before doing so, I would like to ask developers if this is behaviour by design, and if yes, why?
In fact, we restored the old behavior from 10.0. The popup was just a workaround for awfully slow start up of the SW management module.
The issue with the popup is that there are different expectations. Some people play a lot with installing/removing packages, others just want to install the app (fire & forget).
In my opinion, YaST/Package Manager would deserve a sysconfig configuration defining how it should work in such cases. Some people would like to have a pop-up, some wouldn't. Having a possibility to configure such options would be nice. In my opinion there are several other features worth re/defining in such a configuration file. For instance /etc/sysconfig/YaST? Bye Lukas -- Lukas Ocilka, YaST Developer (xn--luk-gla45d) ----------------------------------------------------------------- Ano, ano. Moudry rozkaz. Sam jsem nemel v tech gratulacich jasno.
On Tuesday 18 November 2008 15:21:54 Richard wrote:
On Tue November 18 2008 8:00:37 am Stanislav Visnovsky wrote:
On Saturday 15 November 2008 18:59:33 Richard wrote:
On Sat November 15 2008 8:44:00 am Rajko M. wrote:
On Saturday 15 November 2008 07:43:26 am Dave Plater wrote:
Something like k3b does, if another application like kiocd has control it gives you the option to kill it. Nice, you should put in an enhancement request and post the number so as I can vote.
Not good. Killing another application using software database can be dangerous. Joy of having instantly available Software Management can be spoiled with broken state of the system ;-)
-- Regards, Rajko
Have Yast send a 'signal' to the updater that says 'quit what you are doing and exit'. Then the updater can shut down gracefully. This can be done as part of the Yast message saying it can't start the software management. It is preferable to having the user go to 'top' and killing the updater cold which is what many do, dangerous or not because they don't want to wait for the updater that often seems to take 'days' to complete. When I am at the console doing maintenance on the system, *I* should have the higest priority, after all, in that portion of Yast, *I* am root and root shouldn't have to wait for an automatic program that always seems to be running when one least needs/wants it.
You can already ask packagekitd to shut down via dbus. But there is no guarantee that it will really shut down. Killing it may lead to a system corruption as mentioned elsewhere.
Stano
... AS CURRENTLY IMPLEMENTED, that may be true, but the thrust of this is that the updater (*any* program or service for that matter) should be implemented in a way so as to shutdown gracefully if the ROOT so dictates. It would be dangerous for the root to issue an 'erase everything' command also, but as the root he is wearing the 'god' hat (little 'g') and unlike Windoze, must be responsible for the operation and health of the system, NOT Redmond or other entity.
If the updater and Yast can 'talk' and coordinate more efficiently, the the perils of a sudden, cold shutoff are reduced or eliminated. The root is, or should be, willing to take the risk that the software might fail. Software does that, you know. The root is taking a risk by running *any* software on the machine, having 'friendly' software just makes it less risky.
You can ask for shutdown. If it does not suit your needs, you are free to do kill -9, but the risk is clear. The problem for me is how much you want to invest in making everything interconnected, smart and automatic. This is way to hell IMO. We have the basic support for the behavior you ask for, but it may fail, and it will fail for a reason (e.g. running rpm is a good reason to stay away from kill).
As stated, currently the updater can and often does create inordinate delays and the root should not have to wait on a 'service' type program.
It was the case for Beta4, where packagekitd did not shut down properly. The bug was fixed for Beta5. Do you still see those? Stano -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Richard wrote:
On Tue November 18 2008 8:01:41 am Stanislav Visnovsky wrote:
They broke something that worked, worked well and has been an established method. What we have now is like a store that closes up after serving one customer, forcing the next to ring a door bell. It disrupts the workflow pattern for no good reason. Nope. We changed a behavior you got used to.
Stano
... but you didn't replace it with a better way. Failing that, you shouldn't change the behavior of software that has worked well long enough to 'get used to'.
There are always pros and cons and it's not easy to make everyone happy. As Stano said, that pop-up had been added because of very slow starting of package manager. This issue is not there anymore, we have a very fast libzypp now. Moreover, there are no other YaST modules that would do the same. E.g., once you configure your DNS Server, you have it configured and if you decide to check or change the configuration, just run the YaST module again. There's no difference, no reason (but that people got used to that) why it should behave differently. How often do you actually use this feature? How often do you install/upgrade/remove a software and right after then decide you want install/upgrade/remove some more? Bye Lukas
Lukas Ocilka wrote:
Some people would like to have a pop-up, some wouldn't. Having a possibility to configure such options would be nice. In my opinion there are several other features worth re/defining in such a configuration file.
For instance /etc/sysconfig/YaST?
There already is /etc/sysconfig/yast2 file... -- Best Regards Ladislav Slezák Yast Developer ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: lslezak@suse.cz Lihovarská 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 960 190 00 Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue November 18 2008 9:46:15 am Lukas Ocilka wrote:
Richard wrote:
On Tue November 18 2008 8:01:41 am Stanislav Visnovsky wrote:
They broke something that worked, worked well and has been an established method. What we have now is like a store that closes up after serving one customer, forcing the next to ring a door bell. It disrupts the workflow pattern for no good reason. Nope. We changed a behavior you got used to.
Stano
... but you didn't replace it with a better way. Failing that, you shouldn't change the behavior of software that has worked well long enough to 'get used to'.
There are always pros and cons and it's not easy to make everyone happy. As Stano said, that pop-up had been added because of very slow starting of package manager. This issue is not there anymore, we have a very fast libzypp now.
Moreover, there are no other YaST modules that would do the same. E.g., once you configure your DNS Server, you have it configured and if you decide to check or change the configuration, just run the YaST module again. There's no difference, no reason (but that people got used to that) why it should behave differently.
How often do you actually use this feature? How often do you install/upgrade/remove a software and right after then decide you want install/upgrade/remove some more?
Bye Lukas
Frankly, that is the normal mode for me. I istall 1 package and assorted support libraries, then repeat for other packages, IE, I might isntall MPlayer, then come back and istall VLC then maybe search for codecs and install those. Doing them separately has proven to cause less dependancy problems especially because I can enable/disable repos between installs...though usually I just add a package groupe at a time with a static repo setting. Sometimes I just 'browse' the title/descriptions and say to myself, "Hey, lets experiment and see what this does", install it and maybe then search for related programs, like install mplayer, then look for frontends like smplayer (sp) or other programs that might use mplayer. Only rarely do I say 'Update all packages' or 'Update all in this list' in which case I *still* would like some kind of notification, be it popup or a visible progress log perhaps, some kind of notification that whatever I did finished or if not, why not and which one(s). It is true that the libraries load much faster now, but that's no reason to not have some kind of a "I want more" button, popup or a timer that gives you a chance to see a status display maybe with a 'quit' or 'done' button in addition to the 'I want more' button, all with a time out of X minutes/seconds in case you want this to be unattended with the assumption of 'quit', or whatever. The way it is now, it just disappears with no clue that it was successful, just destroyed your system, walking-wounded but probably will work, or what, Whan the screen disappears like it does now, I virtually always assume the worst, dg, malfunction. Richard Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2008-11-18 at 17:05 -0500, Richard wrote:
The way it is now, it just disappears with no clue that it was successful, just destroyed your system, walking-wounded but probably will work, or what, Whan the screen disappears like it does now, I virtually always assume the worst, dg, malfunction.
I second that. The first few times I tried it I assumed it segfaulted since it disappeared without being closed. Once the installation is done it should return to the window you were on before you clicked "install" with an indication of success. -- John Lange www.johnlange.ca -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 18 November 2008 06:56:26 am Stanislav Visnovsky wrote:
I can imagine that the use case where people want to simply install an appliaction will be covered by PackageKit apps, while YaST will stay as an expert tool and there it would make sense to return to the package selector screen after the transaction.
So, do we have a deal. After installation return to selector, or /etc/sysconfig/yast2 variable: QUIT_AFTER_INSTALLATION="no". -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2008-11-18 at 15:46 +0100, Lukas Ocilka wrote:
... but you didn't replace it with a better way. Failing that, you shouldn't change the behavior of software that has worked well long enough to 'get used to'.
There are always pros and cons and it's not easy to make everyone happy. As Stano said, that pop-up had been added because of very slow starting of package manager. This issue is not there anymore, we have a very fast libzypp now.
Not that fast: it takes 20" to start on my system.
Moreover, there are no other YaST modules that would do the same. E.g., once you configure your DNS Server, you have it configured and if you decide to check or change the configuration, just run the YaST module again. There's no difference, no reason (but that people got used to that) why it should behave differently.
The installation part can take many long minutes, so that I tend to go to another workspace. When I return and see the window gone, I do not know if it succeeded or failed. Other modules are much faster in their process.
How often do you actually use this feature? How often do you install/upgrade/remove a software and right after then decide you want install/upgrade/remove some more?
Quite often. I install something, try it, then discover I need something else, too. I can go without the "install more" window, but I certainly would like a termination feedback, like "installation succeeded" message somewhere. Also... the installation process runs SuSEconfig at the very end, but there is no time to read the messages there, they disappear - and sometimes there are errors and warnings in there that explain some strange behaviour elsewhere. So yes, a button to press to finally exit would be very appreciated. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkkjchIACgkQtTMYHG2NR9Ua+ACfUDl9UWnbGVDx51x9tYCZuplE glgAnRuG+EilMF0UOyk2hJoGoXcUVKYB =SWGV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue November 18 2008 7:45:40 pm Rajko M. wrote:
On Tuesday 18 November 2008 06:56:26 am Stanislav Visnovsky wrote:
I can imagine that the use case where people want to simply install an appliaction will be covered by PackageKit apps, while YaST will stay as an expert tool and there it would make sense to return to the package selector screen after the transaction.
So, do we have a deal.
After installation return to selector, or /etc/sysconfig/yast2 variable: QUIT_AFTER_INSTALLATION="no".
-- Regards, Rajko
Make the default ="yes" but the true power user can switch it to 'no' if he wants it to just quit like it does now. Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2008-11-18 at 15:37 +0100, Lukas Ocilka wrote: ...
In my opinion, YaST/Package Manager would deserve a sysconfig configuration defining how it should work in such cases.
That would be very nice :-)
Some people would like to have a pop-up, some wouldn't. Having a possibility to configure such options would be nice. In my opinion there are several other features worth re/defining in such a configuration file.
+1
For instance /etc/sysconfig/YaST?
There is a "/etc/sysconfig/yast2" file. I just discovered a very insteresting one: STORE_CONFIG_IN_SUBVERSION="no" although the "# Use at your own risk" is not very reasuring... - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkkjcyUACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XX+QCfaXgeKX0DBglZBWEQtCDYzkFL q6UAn3tCrR9ZIfzdO1ikEcrtGIWzuqnl =qQVR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 18 November 2008 07:56:34 pm Richard wrote:
On Tue November 18 2008 7:45:40 pm Rajko M. wrote:
On Tuesday 18 November 2008 06:56:26 am Stanislav Visnovsky wrote:
I can imagine that the use case where people want to simply install an appliaction will be covered by PackageKit apps, while YaST will stay as an expert tool and there it would make sense to return to the package selector screen after the transaction.
So, do we have a deal.
After installation return to selector, or /etc/sysconfig/yast2 variable: QUIT_AFTER_INSTALLATION="no".
-- Regards, Rajko
Make the default ="yes" but the true power user can switch it to 'no' if he wants it to just quit like it does now.
I agree, but until Stanislav say yes, all is just a whish. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Richard wrote:
On Tue November 18 2008 7:45:40 pm Rajko M. wrote:
On Tuesday 18 November 2008 06:56:26 am Stanislav Visnovsky wrote:
I can imagine that the use case where people want to simply install an appliaction will be covered by PackageKit apps, while YaST will stay as an expert tool and there it would make sense to return to the package selector screen after the transaction. So, do we have a deal.
After installation return to selector, or /etc/sysconfig/yast2 variable: QUIT_AFTER_INSTALLATION="no".
-- Regards, Rajko
Make the default ="yes" but the true power user can switch it to 'no' if he wants it to just quit like it does now.
Richard
I agree with the sysconfig setting for displaying the popup. This is probably the only way to support both groups of users... I can add some more details to it, like overall status (OK/failed), number of installed/removed packages... Any other idea how we could improve it? Is it OK for you? -- Best Regards Ladislav Slezák Yast Developer ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: lslezak@suse.cz Lihovarská 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 960 190 00 Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wed November 19 2008 3:10:20 am Ladislav Slezak wrote:
Richard wrote:
On Tue November 18 2008 7:45:40 pm Rajko M. wrote:
On Tuesday 18 November 2008 06:56:26 am Stanislav Visnovsky wrote:
I can imagine that the use case where people want to simply install an appliaction will be covered by PackageKit apps, while YaST will stay as an expert tool and there it would make sense to return to the package selector screen after the transaction. So, do we have a deal.
After installation return to selector, or /etc/sysconfig/yast2 variable: QUIT_AFTER_INSTALLATION="no".
-- Regards, Rajko
Make the default ="yes" but the true power user can switch it to 'no' if he wants it to just quit like it does now.
Richard
I agree with the sysconfig setting for displaying the popup. This is probably the only way to support both groups of users...
I can add some more details to it, like overall status (OK/failed), number of installed/removed packages...
Any other idea how we could improve it? Is it OK for you?
--
Best Regards
Ladislav Slezák Yast Developer
As someone pointed out earlier, this doesn't even have to be a pop-up, even as implemented as a status disiplay within the sw_single module (or whichever) with the OK/continue buttons right in the module would be enough. The main idea is that the module shouldn't just "die" (from the perspective of the user) without an explaination and option to continue or exit back to the calling program as done. Any additional summary such as Nr of programs processed/installed, or number of errors detected if any, well, that would be useful 'gravy' but again, not necessarily requiring a pop-up and the root could define a sysconfig option of '0' to any value, eg, '-1' to get the never return without confirmation or any value 'like 120 which would display the exit status for that many seconds so unattended scripts/installs could proceed after that time. I think just one value, not a host of sysconfig values could control it all, and the use of a popup as the method of display can be whatever is easiest to implement that gives the desired action. Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Richard wrote:
As someone pointed out earlier, this doesn't even have to be a pop-up, even as implemented as a status disiplay within the sw_single module (or whichever) with the OK/continue buttons right in the module would be enough.
It can be a standard window in the workflow instead of a popup. A summary screen. It would look better (if there is much information to display) and it would prevent from some side effects like focus stealing. [...]
or any value 'like 120 which would display the exit status for that many seconds so unattended scripts/installs could proceed after that time.
Using a timeout makes it more complicated. We would need to add some "Stop" button to possibly stop the timeout. I suggest using zypper in scripts instead of yast.
I think just one value, not a host of sysconfig values could control it all, and the use of a popup as the method of display can be whatever is easiest to implement that gives the desired action.
Yes, I want to keep it simple. -- Best Regards Ladislav Slezák Yast Developer ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: lslezak@suse.cz Lihovarská 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 960 190 00 Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Rajko M. wrote:
On Tuesday 18 November 2008 07:56:34 pm Richard wrote:
Make the default ="yes" but the true power user can switch it to 'no' if he wants it to just quit like it does now.
I agree, but until Stanislav say yes, all is just a whish.
No. Stano doesn't have to confirm every change in Yast. I'll change that in 11.2, it's too late for 11.1. We just need to discuss it thoroughly so we don't have to solve it again in 11.2. -- Best Regards Ladislav Slezák Yast Developer ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: lslezak@suse.cz Lihovarská 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 960 190 00 Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 19 November 2008 03:00:03 Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Tuesday, 2008-11-18 at 15:37 +0100, Lukas Ocilka wrote:
[snip]
There is a "/etc/sysconfig/yast2" file. I just discovered a very insteresting one:
STORE_CONFIG_IN_SUBVERSION="no"
although the "# Use at your own risk" is not very reasuring...
Yes, that's work of Jiri Srain during the last hackweek. Stano -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 19 November 2008 01:38:29 John Lange wrote:
On Tue, 2008-11-18 at 17:05 -0500, Richard wrote:
The way it is now, it just disappears with no clue that it was successful, just destroyed your system, walking-wounded but probably will work, or what, Whan the screen disappears like it does now, I virtually always assume the worst, dg, malfunction.
I second that. The first few times I tried it I assumed it segfaulted since it disappeared without being closed. Once the installation is done it should return to the window you were on before you clicked "install" with an indication of success.
If YaST segfaults, it should show xmessage window informing about the crash. If it does not, it's a bug (well, 2 bugs ;-)) Stano -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 19 of November 2008 10:09:12 Stanislav Visnovsky wrote:
On Wednesday 19 November 2008 03:00:03 Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Tuesday, 2008-11-18 at 15:37 +0100, Lukas Ocilka wrote:
[snip]
There is a "/etc/sysconfig/yast2" file. I just discovered a very insteresting one:
STORE_CONFIG_IN_SUBVERSION="no"
although the "# Use at your own risk" is not very reasuring...
Actually, it can hardly break anything. The main issue with this approach was the performance hit - if whole /etc was under version control, it was many seconds at a module start-up. Anyway, in the end it worked quite well, but each YaST module needs to be modified (as defined in the header of /usr/share/YaST2/modules/ConfigHistory.ycp Jiri
Yes, that's work of Jiri Srain during the last hackweek.
Stano
-- Regards, Jiri Srain YaST Team Leader --------------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: jsrain@suse.cz Lihovarska 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 959 190 00 Praha 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz
Ladislav Slezak pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
Richard wrote:
On Tue November 18 2008 7:45:40 pm Rajko M. wrote:
On Tuesday 18 November 2008 06:56:26 am Stanislav Visnovsky wrote:
I can imagine that the use case where people want to simply install an appliaction will be covered by PackageKit apps, while YaST will stay as an expert tool and there it would make sense to return to the package selector screen after the transaction. So, do we have a deal.
After installation return to selector, or /etc/sysconfig/yast2 variable: QUIT_AFTER_INSTALLATION="no".
-- Regards, Rajko Make the default ="yes" but the true power user can switch it to 'no' if he wants it to just quit like it does now.
Richard
I agree with the sysconfig setting for displaying the popup. This is probably the only way to support both groups of users...
I can add some more details to it, like overall status (OK/failed), number of installed/removed packages...
Any other idea how we could improve it? Is it OK for you?
This may not satisfy everyone but how about a popup only if there is a failure? Ken -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Ken Schneider - Factory wrote:
This may not satisfy everyone but how about a popup only if there is a failure?
In case of an error the popup/dialog should be displayed unconditionally, i.e. regardless of the sysconfig value. -- Best Regards Ladislav Slezák Yast Developer ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: lslezak@suse.cz Lihovarská 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 960 190 00 Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, 2008-11-19 at 09:10 +0100, Ladislav Slezak wrote:
I agree with the sysconfig setting for displaying the popup. This is probably the only way to support both groups of users...
I can add some more details to it, like overall status (OK/failed), number of installed/removed packages...
Any other idea how we could improve it? Is it OK for you?
How about if the dialog said "All packages installed correctly", with the options, "Quit", or "Return to Package Management". Also a checkbox that says "Don't show me this again". If the checkbox is selected then whatever button is picked will change the setting for the user next time. Does this not solve the problem and make everyone happy? These kinds of warning dialogs with the option to permanently disable them are pretty standard now. And why the heck would this be stored in sysconfig? This is tweaking a GUI not modifying system configuration/operation. In theory it could be different for each user therefore a local ".yast" preference (or similar) file is where it should be. -- John Lange www.johnlange.ca -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday, 2008-11-19 at 09:54 +0100, Ladislav Slezak wrote:
Richard wrote:
As someone pointed out earlier, this doesn't even have to be a pop-up, even as implemented as a status disiplay within the sw_single module (or whichever) with the OK/continue buttons right in the module would be enough.
It can be a standard window in the workflow instead of a popup. A summary screen. It would look better (if there is much information to display) and it would prevent from some side effects like focus stealing.
That sounds very good to me. Added info like total bytes dowloaded, packages installed/removed/updated/skipped, time used, etc, would be nice too. You could even think of adding output from this command or equivalent: lsof | grep -E 'RPMDELETE|;|path inode=' which serves to know what programs need to be restarted after an update.
[...]
or any value 'like 120 which would display the exit status for that many seconds so unattended scripts/installs could proceed after that time.
Using a timeout makes it more complicated. We would need to add some "Stop" button to possibly stop the timeout. I suggest using zypper in scripts instead of yast.
No, a timeout would defeat the purpose of knowing what happened. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkkkf0QACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WKdQCeL6G3oUhdF/z73n5dQ00R4nrc Zc8AoI6xJdku4Lg94P/fl5mjAe1m0zoU =sA4B -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 19 November 2008 02:57:43 am Ladislav Slezak wrote:
Rajko M. wrote:
On Tuesday 18 November 2008 07:56:34 pm Richard wrote:
Make the default ="yes" but the true power user can switch it to 'no' if he wants it to just quit like it does now.
I agree, but until Stanislav say yes, all is just a whish.
No. Stano doesn't have to confirm every change in Yast.
I'll change that in 11.2, it's too late for 11.1.
We just need to discuss it thoroughly so we don't have to solve it again in 11.2.
OK. I guess the easiest is to bring back popup, but when you want take time there is more possible solutions. Another easy option is to go back to software selector. This would indicate successful end of previous operation. More effort will be to give short status, and 2 buttons on bottom right "Quit" and "Continue". This will keep consistent look. The most complex work is to restructure drop down menus on top of the software selector screen. For instance configuration option(s) can be added in drop down menus, or possibly as "Configure YaST" that will pop another window. In that window one can squeeze all configuration. That is not common in YaST, but that is how many other programs work and new users will find all in one place. There can be switch between GTk and Qt interface, closing or not window, setup for automatic/manual creation of test case and log tarball in case of error, adding/removing repositories, and probably more. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Stanislav Visnovsky wrote:
On Sunday 16 November 2008 14:05:11 Sid Boyce wrote:
David C. Rankin wrote:
Dave Plater wrote:
Jogchum Reitsma wrote:
Robert Lewis schreef:
After installing a package why not ask if the user wants to install or remove more packages before bringing up the YaST2 Writing the system configuration? Worse is that Yast Softwaremanagement, also when called separately, just disappears after having done the updates asked. So if you want to do some more, one has to call the program again.
This behaviour is new in the 11.1 series, up till then Yast did indeed ask the user whether he/she wanted to install more packages.
I didn't find a bug about this in bugzilla, so I'm inclined to file one.
But before doing so, I would like to ask developers if this is behaviour by design, and if yes, why?
regards, Jogchum Reitsma You can look at https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=431854 to get an idea how the devs feel about this. IMHO closing after completion isn't that bad, you only have to click software management again instead of the message box that used to display and after completion of a long install you don't have to click the box to close yast. Regards Dave P Or simply leaving some type of wall message that everything went OK would be alright as well. Just something to say the update/install you started before leaving completed without any errors. For me I don't mind either way as long as we get that feedback without having to go digging in the logs. Anybody can dig in the logs and find out, but it just takes too much time -- if it can be avoided. They broke something that worked, worked well and has been an established method. What we have now is like a store that closes up after serving one customer, forcing the next to ring a door bell. It disrupts the workflow pattern for no good reason.
Nope. We changed a behavior you got used to.
Stano
The "good reason" for the change and I think there must be a good reason I can't think of. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support Specialist, Cricket Coach Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Rajko M. wrote:
On Wednesday 19 November 2008 02:57:43 am Ladislav Slezak wrote:
Rajko M. wrote:
On Tuesday 18 November 2008 07:56:34 pm Richard wrote:
Make the default ="yes" but the true power user can switch it to 'no' if he wants it to just quit like it does now.
I agree, but until Stanislav say yes, all is just a whish.
No. Stano doesn't have to confirm every change in Yast.
I'll change that in 11.2, it's too late for 11.1.
We just need to discuss it thoroughly so we don't have to solve it again in 11.2.
OK. I guess the easiest is to bring back popup, but when you want take time there is more possible solutions.
Another easy option is to go back to software selector. This would indicate successful end of previous operation.
More effort will be to give short status, and 2 buttons on bottom right "Quit" and "Continue". This will keep consistent look.
The most complex work is to restructure drop down menus on top of the software selector screen. For instance configuration option(s) can be added in drop down menus, or possibly as "Configure YaST" that will pop another window. In that window one can squeeze all configuration.
That is not common in YaST, but that is how many other programs work and new users will find all in one place. There can be switch between GTk and Qt interface, closing or not window, setup for automatic/manual creation of test case and log tarball in case of error, adding/removing repositories, and probably more.
I originally made the enhancement request https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=431854 due to problems with install and I think that if a problem occurs you should go straight back to yast before SuSEconfig is run. It also seems that confirmation of successful operation is needed too. Regards Dave P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Oops - did send it to Lukas instead of to the list - my apologies... Lukas Ocilka schreef:
Richard wrote:
How often do you actually use this feature? How often do you install/upgrade/remove a software and right after then decide you want install/upgrade/remove some more?
Bye Lukas
Very often indeed; as I posted in bugzilla,, I tend to have softwaremanagement always open... Which is impossible now, I have to start it up again and again. So it -does- disrupt a workfow pattern, at least mine. I had hoped and expected that this behaviour had slipped in unintended, but now that doesn't seems the case, I find it very pityfull that it seemingly hasn't been given more thought. As I stated before, a -configurable- behaviour would be perfectly acceptable to me, and maybe the best, and I understand that "There already is /etc/sysconfig/yast2 file..." (Ladislav Slezák) so maybe it's not so hard to implement? regards, Jogchum Reitsma -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Jogchum Reitsma wrote:
Oops - did send it to Lukas instead of to the list - my apologies...
Lukas Ocilka schreef:
Richard wrote:
How often do you actually use this feature? How often do you install/upgrade/remove a software and right after then decide you want install/upgrade/remove some more?
Bye Lukas
Very often indeed; as I posted in bugzilla,, I tend to have softwaremanagement always open... Which is impossible now, I have to start it up again and again. So it -does- disrupt a workfow pattern, at least mine.
I had hoped and expected that this behaviour had slipped in unintended, but now that doesn't seems the case, I find it very pityfull that it seemingly hasn't been given more thought.
As I stated before, a -configurable- behaviour would be perfectly acceptable to me, and maybe the best, and I understand that
"There already is /etc/sysconfig/yast2 file..." (Ladislav Slezák)
so maybe it's not so hard to implement?
regards, Jogchum Reitsma
I'm not too surprised with much that goes on with software management anymore after the shortcut keys were completely left out of the ncurses software management interface for 11.0. That will screw with your workflow as well. Thankfully they are back it 11.1! Which we traded for having to restart yast continually. Maybe they will get it right in 11.2. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. | Rankin Law Firm, PLLC | Countdown for openSuSE 11.1 510 Ochiltree Street | http://counter.opensuse.org/11.1/small Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 | Telephone: (936) 715-9333 | openSoftware und SystemEntwicklung Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 | http://www.opensuse.org/ www.rankinlawfirm.com | -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Jogchum Reitsma wrote:
Oops - did send it to Lukas instead of to the list - my apologies...
Lukas Ocilka schreef:
Richard wrote:
How often do you actually use this feature? How often do you install/upgrade/remove a software and right after then decide you want install/upgrade/remove some more?
Bye Lukas
Very often indeed; as I posted in bugzilla,, I tend to have softwaremanagement always open... Which is impossible now, I have to start it up again and again. So it -does- disrupt a workfow pattern, at least mine.
I had hoped and expected that this behaviour had slipped in unintended, but now that doesn't seems the case, I find it very pityfull that it seemingly hasn't been given more thought.
As I stated before, a -configurable- behaviour would be perfectly acceptable to me, and maybe the best, and I understand that
"There already is /etc/sysconfig/yast2 file..." (Ladislav Slezák)
so maybe it's not so hard to implement?
regards, Jogchum Reitsma
Jogchum,
I just found out how much of a HUGE work flow stopper this closing software
management BS can be. The Oss and Non-Oss repos are off line right now and I
went to install KDE3, I had to wait through 2 timeout (one for each repo), then
I had 1 (one) (hear me that is UNO) more fricking package to install and I had
to wait through the pain of the double timeouts AGAIN.
I want the old "Install More Packages? Yes/No" Back! What is do hard about a
checkbox and one more flag and an if statement?
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<productDefines xmlns="http://www.suse.com/1.0/yast2ns"
xmlns:config="http://www.suse.com/1.0/configns">
<!--
Work around for the text domain
textdomain="control"
-->
<textdomain>control</textdomain>
<globals>
Sid Boyce schreef:
They broke something that worked, worked well and has been an established method. What we have now is like a store that closes up after serving one customer, forcing the next to ring a door bell. It disrupts the workflow pattern for no good reason. Regards Sid.
This happens quite a lot recently, not a good develop ment, if you ask me....( i say it anyway though..;) Donot change things that are allright, or work well, because you will have a lot more work than nessesary, maybe if you have all the time in the world, and nothing else to do.., i don't know about others, so i can only speak for meself, but that goes not for me.. I find it more disturbing to every time ring the bell, because the servant hastily leaves the counter and closes the door, than answering 'no' to a polite question. Most time i want some more, because i remember in the shop, in many cases what i wanted..(donot carry a list allways ) to install, most missing pkgs, and i think: 'what was it again? oh yes, pkg so and so..! So, if i had to decide, i choose something in the lower right corner, to close when 'I' am ready to close the pkgmngr. (how can the pkgmngr decide for me? It doesn't know what i want if it doesn't ask, and leave me no choice than call it again?) -- Have a nice day;) Oddball, (M9.) OS: Linux 2.6.27.4-2-pae i686 Huidige gebruiker: oddball@ARM500-sfn7 Systeem: openSUSE 11.1 Beta 4 (i586) KDE: 4.1.3 (KDE 4.1.3) "release 1.1" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
David C. Rankin schreef:
if [[ $PROMPT4MORE ]]; then showPromptDlg() fi
I'd settle for a one-liner
[[ $PROMPT4MORE ]] && showPromptDlg() ;-)
cool ;) Me too: WE WANT TO HAVE A CHOICE...! -- Have a nice day;) Oddball, (M9.) OS: Linux 2.6.27.4-2-pae i686 Huidige gebruiker: oddball@ARM500-sfn7 Systeem: openSUSE 11.1 Beta 4 (i586) KDE: 4.1.3 (KDE 4.1.3) "release 1.1" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hello! Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Wednesday, 2008-11-19 at 09:54 +0100, Ladislav Slezak wrote:
Richard wrote:
As someone pointed out earlier, this doesn't even have to be a pop-up, even as implemented as a status disiplay within the sw_single module (or whichever) with the OK/continue buttons right in the module would be enough.
It can be a standard window in the workflow instead of a popup. A summary screen. It would look better (if there is much information to display) and it would prevent from some side effects like focus stealing.
That sounds very good to me. Added info like total bytes dowloaded, packages installed/removed/updated/skipped, time used, etc, would be nice too.
I have good news for you: the installation summary dialog just have been implemented in yast2-packager-2.18.2 in factory! I have backported the new feature to 11.1 packages yast2-2.17.54.1 and yast2-packager-2.17.50.1 in my OBS home project available here: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home://lslezak/openSUSE_11.1/ There is a new sysconfig variable PKGMGR_ACTION_AT_EXIT which sets the default behavior when package installation is finished. Supported values: - "close" - close the package manager immediately (the default value, the same behavior as in final 11.1) - "restart" - restart the package manager immediately, install/remove more packages - "summary" - display the new installation summary dialog, pressing [Finish] closes the package manger, pressing [Back] goes back to the package manager (install/remove more packages). This is similar to the old "Install more packages?" popup in 11.0 but there are details about the installation which just has finished. I'm looking forward to your feedback! -- Best Regards Ladislav Slezák Yast Developer ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: lslezak@suse.cz Lihovarská 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 960 190 00 Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Il venerdì 23 gennaio 2009, Ladislav Slezak scrisse:
Hello!
- "summary" - display the new installation summary dialog, pressing [Finish] closes the package manger, pressing [Back] goes back to the package manager (install/remove more packages). This is similar to the old "Install more packages?" popup in 11.0 but there are details about the installation which just has finished. "back", a bit ambiguous.. uhmm.. what about "Ok" -> back to yast/pm, "finish/close" -> close Bye.
-- *** Linux user # 198661 ---_ ICQ 33500725 *** *** Home http://www.kailed.net *** *** Powered by openSUSE *** -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
I'm looking forward to your feedback!
It doesn't work :-( user@linux-uigx:~> rpm -q yast2 yast2-packager yast2-2.17.54.1-3.1 yast2-packager-2.17.50.1-1.1 Do you need yast logs? -- S pozdravom / Best regards, Rasto -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 23 January 2009 03:20:14 pm Rastislav Krupanský wrote:
I'm looking forward to your feedback!
It doesn't work :-(
user@linux-uigx:~> rpm -q yast2 yast2-packager yast2-2.17.54.1-3.1 yast2-packager-2.17.50.1-1.1
Do you need yast logs?
Here is a bug report: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=431854 if you want to upload y2logs. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Daniele napsal(a):
Il venerdì 23 gennaio 2009, Ladislav Slezak scrisse:
Hello!
- "summary" - display the new installation summary dialog, pressing [Finish] closes the package manger, pressing [Back] goes back to the package manager (install/remove more packages). This is similar to the old "Install more packages?" popup in 11.0 but there are details about the installation which just has finished. "back", a bit ambiguous.. uhmm.. what about "Ok" -> back to yast/pm, "finish/close" -> close Bye.
Standard yast dialogs have [Back][Next] and [Back][Finish] buttons. [OK] is for popup dialogs or one screen dialogs. (see http://en.opensuse.org/YaST/Style_Guide ) I agree that [Back] is not very intuitive here because users could think it would go the previous step installing the packages again. I think there should be something like [Back to Package Manager] button but that's too long and in some languages it would be even longer. Or there could be a check box "[ ] Install or remove more packages" (checkbox label can be longer so this should be OK). [Finish] would be changed to [OK] or [Next] when checked. Martin, any idea? This problem (a summary dialog after a progress dialog) is not solved in our style guide. (see bnc#421660 and bnc#431854 for more info) -- Best Regards Ladislav Slezák Yast Developer ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: lslezak@suse.cz Lihovarská 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 960 190 00 Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 26 January 2009 06:55:30 am Ladislav Slezak wrote:
... Martin, any idea? This problem (a summary dialog after a progress dialog) is not solved in our style guide. (see bnc#421660 and bnc#431854 for more info)
Continue, Next, More, ... Quit, Finish, Close, ... Back is out of context, as you noted. Style guide should be expanded when issues like this come up. BTW, how complicated is to change YaST UI (not only this particular case) to something that will look like web browsers: ************************************************************** (File Edit View Settings Help) * Quit [a] First Back Forward Next Last * ************************************************************** Navigation* * Add [b] on this * * Edit screen * * Remove (vertical * * Default tabs) * * * * * * * * Help ************************************************************** * Apply OK Cancel * [c] ************************************************************** [i] [ii] [iii] Buttons are grouped by function: [a] Top - functions applied to the whole screen/setup [b] Middle - next to the content, applied to content changes [c] Bottom - functions applied to current part of the setup [i] Navigation [ii] Content [iii] Misc, for instance actions on content in [b-iii] -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi, mhm. I tried to view the summary in the package manager but it wasn't displayed. I am using openSUSE 11.1 with yast2 2.18.1-1.2 and yast2-packager 2.18.1-1.2 (both from factory) Which version of yast2-packager shows the summary? Some thoughts about this topic: * Toggle display of summary via menu bar (configuration maybe?) [File] [View] [Package] [Configuration] [Dependencies] [Extras] [Help] [ ] Show summary Repositories Online Update * Summary dialog with radio buttons [Summary] yast2-xyz was installed. ( ) Continue working with package manager ( ) Do not show summary and close package manager automatically after the changes have been successfully applied [OK] -------- What do you think about that? Cu, Martin -- Martin Schmidkunz User Experience Specialist martin.schmidkunz@novell.com +49 (0) 911 740 53-346 ----------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) ----------------------------------------------------------------- Novell, Inc. SUSE® Linux Enterprise 10 Your Linux is ready http://www.novell.com/linux -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Martin Schmidkunz wrote:
Hi,
mhm. I tried to view the summary in the package manager but it wasn't displayed. I am using openSUSE 11.1 with yast2 2.18.1-1.2 and yast2-packager 2.18.1-1.2 (both from factory) Which version of yast2-packager shows the summary?
It has been added in yast2-2.18.1 and yast2-packager-2.18.2. And you have to edit PKGMGR_ACTION_AT_EXIT variable in /etc/sysconfig/yast2 config file (it should be at the end of the file).
Some thoughts about this topic: * Toggle display of summary via menu bar (configuration maybe?) [File] [View] [Package] [Configuration] [Dependencies] [Extras] [Help] [ ] Show summary Repositories Online Update
Bubli is working on that...
* Summary dialog with radio buttons
[Summary] yast2-xyz was installed.
( ) Continue working with package manager ( ) Do not show summary and close package manager automatically after the changes have been successfully applied
[OK]
--------
What do you think about that?
I think it's better than the current confusing solution. Thanks! -- Best Regards Ladislav Slezák Yast Developer ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: lslezak@suse.cz Lihovarská 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 960 190 00 Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
participants (20)
-
Carlos E. R. -
Carlos E. R. -
Daniele -
Dave Plater -
David C. Rankin -
Jiri Srain -
Jogchum Reitsma -
John Lange -
Ken Schneider - Factory -
Ladislav Slezak -
Lukas Ocilka -
Martin Schmidkunz -
Oddball -
Patrick Shanahan -
Rajko M. -
Rastislav Krupanský -
Richard -
Robert Lewis -
Sid Boyce -
Stanislav Visnovsky