[opensuse-factory] openSUSE 11.3 themes and features
Moin, last week I sat together with coolo, henne and Klaas and made up our thoughts for openSUSE 11.3. Here's how we see openSUSE 11.3. We're looking forward receiving your feedback. Voting in openFATE is appreciated as well ;-) Best M Themes - Make openSUSE a better fit on netbooks - Netbook support, #308401 [1] - Easy way to put media to USB stick #308352 [2] - File sharing in the cloud (iFolder, dropbox, spideroak), #308621[3] - Better integration with the openSUSE Build Service #307726 [4], 307834 [5] - mobile device suppport (iPod touch & iPhone only) - Multitouch support, # 308604 [6] - iPhone, iPod touch support, #308282 [7] - Simplified access to useful but proprietary software - drivers (NVidia etc.) - Make codecs easier available Changes - show unneeded packages, #300758 [8] - Run download & install in parallel, #120340 [9] - LXDE Desktop - done, #307729 [10] - certain pre-configured applications (tbd) - Fast & beautfiul boot process - KMS hidden Grub #305317 [9] - Replace System-V init with upstart init, #305690 [10] Here are two feature which have a relative high vote but we don't consider them to do: - update auf Grub2 #308497 (we don't have a maintainer) - Plymouth for splash #305493 (we don't think there is much benefit in) [1] https://features.opensuse.org/308401 [2] https://features.opensuse.org/308352 [3] https://features.opensuse.org/308621 [4] https://features.opensuse.org/307726 [5] https://features.opensuse.org/307834 [6] https://features.opensuse.org/308604 [7] https://features.opensuse.org/308282 [8] https://features.opensuse.org/300758 [9] https://features.opensuse.org/120340 [10] https://features.opensuse.org/307729 [11] https://features.opensuse.org/305317 [12] https://features.opensuse.org/305690 -- Michael Löffler, Product Management SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Dňa 10.2.2010 18:02, Michael Loeffler wrote / napísal(a):
Moin,
last week I sat together with coolo, henne and Klaas and made up our thoughts for openSUSE 11.3. Here's how we see openSUSE 11.3. We're looking forward receiving your feedback. Voting in openFATE is appreciated as well ;-)
Best M
Themes - Make openSUSE a better fit on netbooks - Netbook support, #308401 [1] - Easy way to put media to USB stick #308352 [2] - File sharing in the cloud (iFolder, dropbox, spideroak), #308621[3] - Better integration with the openSUSE Build Service #307726 [4], 307834 [5] - mobile device suppport (iPod touch& iPhone only) - Multitouch support, # 308604 [6] - iPhone, iPod touch support, #308282 [7] - Simplified access to useful but proprietary software - drivers (NVidia etc.) - Make codecs easier available
Changes - show unneeded packages, #300758 [8] - Run download& install in parallel, #120340 [9] - LXDE Desktop - done, #307729 [10] - certain pre-configured applications (tbd) - Fast& beautfiul boot process - KMS hidden Grub #305317 [9] - Replace System-V init with upstart init, #305690 [10]
Here are two feature which have a relative high vote but we don't consider them to do: - update auf Grub2 #308497 (we don't have a maintainer) - Plymouth for splash #305493 (we don't think there is much benefit in)
Hi. So why is Plymouth developed? Why are other distros going to use it? Then it´s wasting of time if you think there isn´t much benefit. I´d really appreciate the same package searching in Qt software managment as is in GTK. What i mean? https://features.opensuse.org/307512 I don´t understand, why it still doesn´t have this feature, while GTK software management this feature uses ages. -- S pozdravom / Best regards, Rasto -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi, On 02/10/2010 06:32 PM, Rastislav Krupanský wrote:
Dňa 10.2.2010 18:02, Michael Loeffler wrote / napísal(a):
- Plymouth for splash #305493 (we don't think there is much benefit in)
So why is Plymouth developed? Why are other distros going to use it?
Because other distributions are not using what we are using (bootsplash). So they invent it plymouth to scratch a itch they have: a splash implementation they are not happy with. As you can see this has nothing to do with our distro. We always had a rather good bootsplash implementation and plymouth has not _many_ benefits over bootsplash and comes with a cost. Thats what the sentence above is trying to say. Same with upstart and a couple of other things. You always have to carefully consider what you are investing your time in. And neither "its new!" nor "everybody else is using it!" are very good arguments by themselves. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Michael Loeffler wrote:
- Simplified access to useful but proprietary software - drivers (NVidia etc.)
As an NVidia and Factory user, I wonder how far we can go to not require the proprietary driver in that specific but very common case, and be able to offer most of what people need via nouveau (at least for 2D and default, the 3D driver that currently is on OBS only under home:jobermayr doesn't even do Composite well enough for KDE to use it). I'm all for improving access to those proprietary pieces of software, but we really should put even more work into ways of rendering them obsolete for most users. Robert Kaiser -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Il 10/02/2010 18:42, Robert Kaiser ha scritto:
Michael Loeffler wrote:
- Simplified access to useful but proprietary software - drivers (NVidia etc.)
like broadcom-wl drivers that i actually maintain on packman... (other distro like ubuntu already provides them.. i can't understand why we cannot. Andrea - -- - ------------------------------------------ Andrea Florio QSI International School of Brindisi Sys Admin CISCO CCNA Certified openSUSE-Education Administrator openSUSE Official Member (anubisg1) Email: andrea@opensuse.org Packman Packaging Team Email: andrea@links2linux.de Web: http://packman.links2linux.org/ Cell: +39-328-7365667 - ------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkty9RkACgkQyCZT87TFPuinPQCg6Jc6w6n2UGGq6iL6pk5Ek2sT U0YAnRZDL081fl9vvcOl/bhZA1f1l/V5 =kqZC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 07:04:09PM +0100, Andrea Florio wrote:
Il 10/02/2010 18:42, Robert Kaiser ha scritto:
Michael Loeffler wrote:
- Simplified access to useful but proprietary software - drivers (NVidia etc.)
like broadcom-wl drivers that i actually maintain on packman... (other distro like ubuntu already provides them.. i can't understand why we cannot.
Because distributing closed source kernel drivers is something that Novell has stated it will not do. Not to mention the legal aspects of the whole thing... thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Dňa 10.2.2010 19:14, Greg KH wrote / napísal(a):
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 07:04:09PM +0100, Andrea Florio wrote:
Il 10/02/2010 18:42, Robert Kaiser ha scritto:
Michael Loeffler wrote:
- Simplified access to useful but proprietary software - drivers (NVidia etc.)
like broadcom-wl drivers that i actually maintain on packman... (other distro like ubuntu already provides them.. i can't understand why we cannot.
Because distributing closed source kernel drivers is something that Novell has stated it will not do.
Not to mention the legal aspects of the whole thing...
thanks,
greg k-h
But something is preparing, afaik;-) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=554823 -- S pozdravom / Best regards, Rasto -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 02/10/2010 01:56 PM, Rastislav Krupanský wrote:
Dňa 10.2.2010 19:14, Greg KH wrote / napísal(a):
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 07:04:09PM +0100, Andrea Florio wrote:
Il 10/02/2010 18:42, Robert Kaiser ha scritto:
Michael Loeffler wrote:
- Simplified access to useful but proprietary software - drivers (NVidia etc.)
like broadcom-wl drivers that i actually maintain on packman... (other distro like ubuntu already provides them.. i can't understand why we cannot.
Because distributing closed source kernel drivers is something that Novell has stated it will not do.
Not to mention the legal aspects of the whole thing...
thanks,
greg k-h
But something is preparing, afaik;-) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=554823
Yes, but b43-fwcutter is open source, it supports an open-source driver, and it gets the copyrighted material from public Web sources. I see no legal or open-source ramifications with having the firmware installation script being run during installation if a Broadcom device is detected. Of course, I am not a lawyer. Larry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi, On 02/10/2010 07:14 PM, Greg KH wrote:
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 07:04:09PM +0100, Andrea Florio wrote:
Il 10/02/2010 18:42, Robert Kaiser ha scritto:
Michael Loeffler wrote:
- Simplified access to useful but proprietary software - drivers (NVidia etc.)
like broadcom-wl drivers that i actually maintain on packman... (other distro like ubuntu already provides them.. i can't understand why we cannot.
Because distributing closed source kernel drivers is something that Novell has stated it will not do.
So does the openSUSE Project. We won't distribute closed source kernel drivers that violate the rights of fellow hackers. Rest assured. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le mercredi 10 février 2010, à 18:02 +0100, Michael Loeffler a écrit :
Moin,
last week I sat together with coolo, henne and Klaas and made up our thoughts for openSUSE 11.3. Here's how we see openSUSE 11.3. We're looking forward receiving your feedback. Voting in openFATE is appreciated as well ;-)
I'm glad to see a selection of features for 11.3, and it looks like a good list at a first glance! FWIW, on the GNOME side, I sent a list of features a few days ago: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-gnome/2010-02/msg00001.html The GNOME list doesn't contain big visible features, but that also means it's easy to help :-) Cheers, Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 18:02, Michael Loeffler <michl@novell.com> wrote:
- Plymouth for splash #305493 (we don't think there is much benefit in)
That's a shame. OK, it's a shiny feature, but it's a shiny feature that adds a significant level of polish to the boot sequence. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 08:01:02PM +0100, Clayton wrote:
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 18:02, Michael Loeffler <michl@novell.com> wrote:
- Plymouth for splash #305493 (we don't think there is much benefit in)
That's a shame. OK, it's a shiny feature, but it's a shiny feature that adds a significant level of polish to the boot sequence.
The real goal should be to boot so fast you don't need a spash screen. Look at the Goblin builds (openSUSE Moblin), everything happens within 15 seconds, so a custom splash sequence would only slow things down (it really does, we have measured the thing...) What we need to do is get the Moblin changes into the main openSUSE repo, which we are slowly getting accomplished. thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 02/10/2010 02:29 PM, Greg KH wrote:
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 08:01:02PM +0100, Clayton wrote:
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 18:02, Michael Loeffler <michl@novell.com> wrote:
- Plymouth for splash #305493 (we don't think there is much benefit in)
That's a shame. OK, it's a shiny feature, but it's a shiny feature that adds a significant level of polish to the boot sequence.
The real goal should be to boot so fast you don't need a spash screen. Look at the Goblin builds (openSUSE Moblin), everything happens within 15 seconds, so a custom splash sequence would only slow things down (it really does, we have measured the thing...)
What we need to do is get the Moblin changes into the main openSUSE repo, which we are slowly getting accomplished.
That may lessen the boot time but openSUSE will never get down to the times that Moblin does simply because flexibility isn't free. The goals are too different. Personally, I'd be extremely annoyed if I was hamstrung by the limitations Moblin imposes for every day systems. I want LVM. I want encrypted home and swap. These things mean an initrd slowing things down and that is a trade off I'll happily make. -Jeff -- Jeff Mahoney SUSE Labs -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Dňa 10.2.2010 20:01, Clayton wrote / napísal(a):
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 18:02, Michael Loeffler<michl@novell.com> wrote:
- Plymouth for splash #305493 (we don't think there is much benefit in)
That's a shame. OK, it's a shiny feature, but it's a shiny feature that adds a significant level of polish to the boot sequence.
C.
Yea, it´s a shiny feature and almost all distributions underestimate the wow effect. Beginner then often has a bad first impression or loses motivation :-( And that´s a pity. -- S pozdravom / Best regards, Rasto -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
2010/2/10 Rastislav Krupanský <rastislav.krupansky@gmail.com>:
- Plymouth for splash #305493 (we don't think there is much benefit in)
That's a shame. OK, it's a shiny feature, but it's a shiny feature that adds a significant level of polish to the boot sequence.
Yea, it´s a shiny feature and almost all distributions underestimate the wow effect. Beginner then often has a bad first impression or loses motivation :-( And that´s a pity.
True. That said, as Henne pointed out, the current bootsplash isn't bad... in most cases anyway. Still, I would love to see either more improvements in the bootsplash, or that we take a serious look at Plymouth. Sadly I'm neither an artist now much of a programmer... so my contributions here are very limited (unless we want stick men on the bootsplash... I can draw stick men :-) ). I understand completely why an extra like this would be set aside as a "maybe we can look at it later" since it's new, and would require yet more stretching of scarce resources. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010 schrieb Rastislav Krupanský:
Dňa 10.2.2010 20:01, Clayton wrote / napísal(a):
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 18:02, Michael Loeffler<michl@novell.com> wrote:
- Plymouth for splash #305493 (we don't think there is much benefit in)
That's a shame. OK, it's a shiny feature, but it's a shiny feature that adds a significant level of polish to the boot sequence.
C.
Yea, it´s a shiny feature and almost all distributions underestimate the wow effect. Beginner then often has a bad first impression or loses motivation :-( Sorry, I wasn't wowed booting Fedora 12, were you?
Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----Original Message----- From: Stephan Kulow [mailto:coolo@novell.com] Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 10:13 AM To: opensuse-factory@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse-factory] openSUSE 11.3 themes and features
Am Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010 schrieb Rastislav Krupanský:
Dňa 10.2.2010 20:01, Clayton wrote / napísal(a):
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 18:02, Michael Loeffler<michl@novell.com> wrote:
- Plymouth for splash #305493 (we don't think there is much benefit in)
That's a shame. OK, it's a shiny feature, but it's a shiny feature that adds a significant level of polish to the boot sequence.
C.
Yea, it´s a shiny feature and almost all distributions underestimate the wow effect. Beginner then often has a bad first impression or loses motivation :-( Sorry, I wasn't wowed booting Fedora 12, were you?
Greetings, Stephan
I mean in generally, not only in boot. But it could be matter of taste. And Fedora doesn´t have jimmac in artwork team, or does? ;-) -- S pozdravom / Best regards, Rasto -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 10/02/10 17:02, Michael Loeffler wrote:
- mobile device suppport (iPod touch & iPhone only) - Multitouch support, # 308604 [6] - iPhone, iPod touch support, #308282 [7]
For some time now, I have been maintaining the SynCE project (Windows Mobile devices) packages for openSUSE (system:SynCE). If one of the headline features of 11.3 is going to be mobile device support, I think it would be good for inclusion as well. Main problem is that mobile devices appear as network devices, so to communicate SynCE needs the firewall open. I am not a SuSEfirewall2 expert and have no idea how to provide sane defaults along with the SynCE packages that open just the right ports on the right devices. 50% of the questions on the mailing list are answered by "turn off your firewall"... Should be an easy fix if someone can feed me some info on how to deal with unpredictable device names. And as a minor annoyance, SynCE uses OpenSync to actually sync contacts/calendar etc. The OpenSync project is moving very slowly atm (not dead, but has had a 0.40 release due for the past few years) and so there is no plugin to sync with KDE4/akonadi. Hopefully there will be some effort in this direction for KDE4.5. I think that it would be a nice addition to the feature list, and will put some more work into it, but what do you guys think? Mandriva used it as a feature a couple of releases back (2008.1 I believe). Regards, Tejas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
participants (12)
-
Andrea Florio -
Clayton -
Greg KH -
Henne Vogelsang -
Jeff Mahoney -
Larry Finger -
Michael Loeffler -
Rastislav Krupanský -
Robert Kaiser -
Stephan Kulow -
Tejas Guruswamy -
Vincent Untz