libreoffice-math: zypper forces installation of previously deinstalled non-system package
Dear openSUSE community, before upgrading to 20210104 from 20210102, I noticed that libreoffice-math is scheduled to be reinstalled despite having it deinstalled a few days ago. This occurs with both upgrade workflows, tumbleweed-cli and with the regular zypper dup (without tumbleweed-cli). The following 3 NEW packages are going to be installed: kernel-default-5.10.4-1.1 libreoffice-filters-optional libreoffice-math I would expect a self-healing system to regulate and repair itself and as such it would be desirable if this were a system-critical package. In this case, however, libreoffice-math is neither system-critical nor does it make any sense from an engineering point of view to lock a package which is not even installed. Do you have any suggestions how to fix this? Maybe the office packages are not stateless or there is an overdetermination of dependencies? Cheers Martin martin@localhost:~> zypper if libreoffice-math Loading repository data... Reading installed packages... Information for package libreoffice-math: ----------------------------------------- Repository : openSUSE-Tumbleweed-Oss Name : libreoffice-math Version : 7.0.3.1-3.1 Arch : x86_64 Vendor : openSUSE Installed Size : 1.4 MiB Installed : No Status : not installed Source package : libreoffice-7.0.3.1-3.1.src Summary : LibreOffice Math Description : This module allows you to create and edit scientific formulas and equations by using LibreOffice office suite.
Am Mi, 6. Jan, 2021 um 4:15 P. M. schrieb Martin <secpriv@mailbox.org>:
I would expect a self-healing system to regulate and repair itself and as such it would be desirable if this were a system-critical package. In this case, however, libreoffice-math is neither system-critical nor does it make any sense from an engineering point of view to lock a package which is not even installed. Do you have any suggestions how to fix this? Maybe the office packages are not stateless or there is an overdetermination of dependencies?
It's most likely a requirement by a pattern, look if you have any office pattern installed LCP [Stasiek] https://lcp.world
I didn't even use LibreOffice on this fresh TW install yet except launching Calc once. Not sure how to interpret the output below, didn't install any patterns unless this is the standard configuration out of the box after a fresh TW installation. martin@localhost:~> sudo zypper se -t pattern office S | Name | Summary | Type --+--------+-----------------+-------- i | office | Office Software | pattern
Stasiek Michalski <hellcp@opensuse.org> hat am 06.01.2021 16:25 geschrieben:
Am Mi, 6. Jan, 2021 um 4:15 P. M. schrieb Martin <secpriv@mailbox.org>:
I would expect a self-healing system to regulate and repair itself and as such it would be desirable if this were a system-critical package. In this case, however, libreoffice-math is neither system-critical nor does it make any sense from an engineering point of view to lock a package which is not even installed. Do you have any suggestions how to fix this? Maybe the office packages are not stateless or there is an overdetermination of dependencies?
It's most likely a requirement by a pattern, look if you have any office pattern installed
LCP [Stasiek] https://lcp.world
Am Mi, 6. Jan, 2021 um 4:30 P. M. schrieb Martin <secpriv@mailbox.org>:
I didn't even use LibreOffice on this fresh TW install yet except launching Calc once. Not sure how to interpret the output below, didn't install any patterns unless this is the standard configuration out of the box after a fresh TW installation.
martin@localhost:~> sudo zypper se -t pattern office
S | Name | Summary | Type --+--------+-----------------+-------- i | office | Office Software | pattern
Yes, the office pattern is installed with I think every graphical option in the installer, so that doesn't surprise me LCP [Stasiek] https://lcp.world
Am 06.01.21 um 16:15 schrieb Martin:
Dear openSUSE community,
before upgrading to 20210104 from 20210102, I noticed that libreoffice-math is scheduled to be reinstalled despite having it deinstalled a few days ago. This occurs with both upgrade workflows, tumbleweed-cli and with the regular zypper dup (without tumbleweed-cli).
The following 3 NEW packages are going to be installed: kernel-default-5.10.4-1.1 libreoffice-filters-optional libreoffice-math
Apparently the package is required by libreoffice-filters-optional:
zypper search --requires libreoffice-math [...] S | Name | [...] --+------------------------------+------ | libreoffice-filters-optional | [...]
But I have no idea where that is coming from in your update. Otherwise Stasiek is right that the office pattern recommends it:
zypper search --recommends libreoffice-math [...] S | Name | Summary | Type --+------------------------+-----------------+-------- | patterns-office-office | Office Software | package
So most likely the fix is to drop the pattern. Best regards, Aaron
I don't know what "patterns" actually are and never used them. This is a fresh TW installation and I'm a new TW user. I think at worst this is an engineering problem for when a user removes a package it is expected that the same package is not reinstalled again and at best it is a usability issue. How would I go about fixing this issue for myself? But more importantly, how can it be fixed for others? Technically, it would make sense to "lock" packages from being upgraded but to have packages "locked out" from re-entering the system still sounds strange to me.
Aaron Puchert <aaronpuchert@alice-dsl.net> hat am 06.01.2021 21:50 geschrieben:
Am 06.01.21 um 16:15 schrieb Martin:
Dear openSUSE community,
before upgrading to 20210104 from 20210102, I noticed that libreoffice-math is scheduled to be reinstalled despite having it deinstalled a few days ago. This occurs with both upgrade workflows, tumbleweed-cli and with the regular zypper dup (without tumbleweed-cli).
The following 3 NEW packages are going to be installed: kernel-default-5.10.4-1.1 libreoffice-filters-optional libreoffice-math
Apparently the package is required by libreoffice-filters-optional:
zypper search --requires libreoffice-math [...] S | Name | [...] --+------------------------------+------ | libreoffice-filters-optional | [...]
But I have no idea where that is coming from in your update. Otherwise Stasiek is right that the office pattern recommends it:
zypper search --recommends libreoffice-math [...] S | Name | Summary | Type --+------------------------+-----------------+-------- | patterns-office-office | Office Software | package
So most likely the fix is to drop the pattern.
Best regards, Aaron
Am 07.01.21 um 11:35 schrieb Martin:
I don't know what "patterns" actually are and never used them.
Patterns are essentially empty packages that “recommend” a number of related packages for convenience. If you're doing programming in C for example, you could just install the pattern for that instead of installing compiler, linker, debugger, standard library and so on separately.
This is a fresh TW installation and I'm a new TW user. I think at worst this is an engineering problem for when a user removes a package it is expected that the same package is not reinstalled again and at best it is a usability issue. How would I go about fixing this issue for myself? But more importantly, how can it be fixed for others?
I don't think there is anything to fix here. The package manager not remembering everything you did is not a bug, it's a feature. And the default settings are biased towards installing more packages rather than less, because otherwise users would complain that certain features are missing in a default installation and that tends to put them off more than superfluous packages, which most users likely won't even notice. The patterns just recommend their packages because requiring them might result in conflicts. So when you removed libreoffice-math that didn't result in automatic removal of the office pattern. Then I guess on your next update zypper noticed that there is this recommended package that you haven't installed so it wants to help you out.
Technically, it would make sense to "lock" packages from being upgraded but to have packages "locked out" from re-entering the system still sounds strange to me.
I agree that locking isn't right here, you should probably just remove the pattern if you're not interested in having the pattern's recommended office-related software. The default here seems to be that everybody should want LibreOffice, and if that's nothing for you just drop it. We'll likely not drop it from the default install though, because most people want it and would complain if the default installation wouldn't contain it. Best regards, Aaron
On 08.01.21 01:15, Aaron Puchert wrote:
I don't think there is anything to fix here. The package manager not remembering everything you did is not a bug, it's a feature.
A *missing* feature. I think apt, for example, does better in this regard. Zypper already remembers if something was installed manually or as a dependency. Example: strolchi:~ # zypper in meson ... The following 3 NEW packages are going to be installed: meson meson-vim ninja 3 new packages to install. Overall download size: 1.3 MiB. Already cached: 0 B. After the operation, additional 6.6 MiB will be used. Continue? [y/n/v/...? shows all options] (y): Retrieving: meson-vim-0.56.0-2.1.noarch.rpm ......................[done] Retrieving: ninja-1.10.2-1.1.x86_64.rpm ..........................[done] Retrieving: meson-0.56.0-2.1.noarch.rpm ..........................[done] Checking for file conflicts: .....................................[done] (1/3) Installing: meson-vim-0.56.0-2.1.noarch ....................[done] (2/3) Installing: ninja-1.10.2-1.1.x86_64 ........................[done] (3/3) Installing: meson-0.56.0-2.1.noarch ........................[done] strolchi:~ # zypper rm -u meson ... The following 3 packages are going to be REMOVED: meson meson-vim ninja 3 packages to remove. After the operation, 6.6 MiB will be freed. Continue? [y/n/v/...? shows all options] (y): (1/3) Removing meson-0.56.0-2.1.noarch ...........................[done] (2/3) Removing meson-vim-0.56.0-2.1.noarch .......................[done] (3/3) Removing ninja-1.10.2-1.1.x86_64 ...........................[done] strolchi:~ # zypper in meson meson-vim ninja ... The following 3 NEW packages are going to be installed: meson meson-vim ninja 3 new packages to install. Overall download size: 1.3 MiB. Already cached: 0 B. After the operation, additional 6.6 MiB will be used. Continue? [y/n/v/...? shows all options] (y): Retrieving: meson-vim-0.56.0-2.1.noarch.rpm ......................[done] Retrieving: ninja-1.10.2-1.1.x86_64.rpm ..........................[done] Retrieving: meson-0.56.0-2.1.noarch.rpm ..............[done (3.2 MiB/s)] Checking for file conflicts: .....................................[done] (1/3) Installing: meson-vim-0.56.0-2.1.noarch ....................[done] (2/3) Installing: ninja-1.10.2-1.1.x86_64 ........................[done] (3/3) Installing: meson-0.56.0-2.1.noarch ........................[done] strolchi:~ # zypper rm -u meson Reading installed packages... Resolving package dependencies... The following package is going to be REMOVED: meson 1 package to remove. After the operation, 6.4 MiB will be freed. Continue? [y/n/v/...? shows all options] (y): Now we just would need to keep a hint that something was uninstalled and should be not reinstalled (maybe unless "zypper in --recommends ..." is used). -- Stefan Seyfried "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman
08.01.2021 10:38, Stefan Seyfried пишет:
Zypper already remembers if something was installed manually or as a dependency. Example:
...
strolchi:~ # zypper rm -u meson ... The following 3 packages are going to be REMOVED: meson meson-vim ninja
The missing feature is command to remove unneeded dependencies (like "apt autoremove"). "zypper -u" works only when removing some package, but it is quite often when user removed some package and then realized dependencies were left behind. I see similar questions on forums often. And of course the way to promote automatic dependency to wanted package (apt-mark).
On 06/01/2021 16.15, Martin wrote:
Dear openSUSE community,
before upgrading to 20210104 from 20210102, I noticed that libreoffice-math is scheduled to be reinstalled despite having it deinstalled a few days ago. This occurs with both upgrade workflows, tumbleweed-cli and with the regular zypper dup (without tumbleweed-cli).
Yes, known issue. The package system has no memory of you removing a file manually, and it will reinstall it due to some dependency. You have to lock them out. Long ago, the system would remember manually deleted packages and respected the action. But the feature could not be maintained and was removed. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Carlos, thanks for pointing this out. Could you tell me more about the feature that you mentioned and is there a possibility to reintroduce it? To clarify, I have actually removed libreoffice-math during the installation process by simply unclicking libre-office math in the installer. If I had removed libre-office after the installation with zypper, I suppose the system would be able to remember it then?
Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> hat am 06.01.2021 22:51 geschrieben:
On 06/01/2021 16.15, Martin wrote:
Dear openSUSE community,
before upgrading to 20210104 from 20210102, I noticed that libreoffice-math is scheduled to be reinstalled despite having it deinstalled a few days ago. This occurs with both upgrade workflows, tumbleweed-cli and with the regular zypper dup (without tumbleweed-cli).
Yes, known issue. The package system has no memory of you removing a file manually, and it will reinstall it due to some dependency.
You have to lock them out.
Long ago, the system would remember manually deleted packages and respected the action. But the feature could not be maintained and was removed.
-- Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 07/01/2021 11.41, Martin wrote:
Carlos, thanks for pointing this out. Could you tell me more about the feature that you mentioned and is there a possibility to reintroduce it?
Unfortunately, my memory is fuzzy and apparently externally erasable :-} I know the feature existed, and I distinctly remember it was removed, and that there was some discussion about it at the time. When, I don't remember, long ago. Ten years probably. I think someone chimed recently with more detailed information, but I can not think of a "grep" sequence that will find the email. But if someone has a hint to grep for, I will gladly do :-) Wait, I have some "important" mails saved, I'll check. [...] No luck, sorry.
To clarify, I have actually removed libreoffice-math during the installation process by simply unclicking libre-office math in the installer. If I had removed libre-office after the installation with zypper, I suppose the system would be able to remember it then?
Nope. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.2 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Martin, it would be nice to not TOFU in this area. Am Donnerstag, 7. Januar 2021, 11:41:14 CET schrieb Martin:
Carlos, thanks for pointing this out. Could you tell me more about the feature that you mentioned and is there a possibility to reintroduce it? To clarify, I have actually removed libreoffice-math during the installation process by simply unclicking libre-office math in the installer.
You could have archived that with just another click (activate lock state).
If I had removed libre-office after the installation with zypper, I suppose the system would be able to remember it then?
Sure, this memory is provided with locks. Do you propose a scheme that is based on interpretation of certain activities, e.g. when deleting a package directly, lock it? If you think about the consequences, you will see, that this scheme isn't going to fly. Pete
participants (7)
-
Aaron Puchert -
Andrei Borzenkov -
Carlos E. R. -
Hans-Peter Jansen -
Martin -
Stasiek Michalski -
Stefan Seyfried