[opensuse-factory] Are there plans for changing the default browser?
Dear all! Like my feature request here: https://features.opensuse.org/312585 I want to ask you, f there some plans to change the default browser. The background of that is, that Mozilla, and the new model of development, could be a factor of more work for our packagers and testers. Switching to another browser by default could be more easy to us, because Firefox could be a potential breaker for the next releases (I remember, that there where several add-ons which didin´t worked with FF 4 and now doesn´t for with FF 5 too. Maybe a change from Firefox to Iceweasel could be the solution. From my point of view, Mozilla is doing a lot wrong from the release of Firefox 4.0 till today and this could destroy the goal, to deliver a *stable* release. Firefox isn´t that bad at all, but I think the new release policy from Mozilla just slam down the distributor´s plans. Mozilla tries to take over the Linux development model and is doing a capital mistake: *On Linux, new releases are coming every 3 months, but the old are still supported *On Firefox, the FF 4.x line ends right now after the release of 5.0 This makes it more difficult for the packagers to deliver a *recent* _and_ *supported* distribution. Maybe a change could be the right way here, but maybe it´s just my personal feeling!? What do you think? thanks -- Kim Leyendecker (kdl@k-dl.de.vu) openSUSE Ambassador, openSUSE Wiki Team DE HAVE A LOT OF FUN! http://www.opensuse.org Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute or create your own Linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. http://www.susestudio.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 04:13:43PM +0200, Kim Leyendecker wrote:
*On Linux, new releases are coming every 3 months, but the old are still supported
No they aren't. They are dropped from "support" after the next release comes out, 3 months later. This is identical to what the Mozilla people are doing. greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am 28.06.2011 16:22, schrieb Greg KH:
No they aren't. They are dropped from "support" after the next release comes out, 3 months later. This is identical to what the Mozilla people are doing.
And what´s with 2.6.32.x, 2.6.34.x and 2.6.35.x ? -- Kim Leyendecker (kdl@k-dl.de.vu) openSUSE Ambassador, openSUSE Wiki Team DE HAVE A LOT OF FUN! http://www.opensuse.org Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute or create your own Linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. http://www.susestudio.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 08:59:46PM +0200, Kim Leyendecker wrote:
Am 28.06.2011 16:22, schrieb Greg KH:
No they aren't. They are dropped from "support" after the next release comes out, 3 months later. This is identical to what the Mozilla people are doing.
And what´s with 2.6.32.x, 2.6.34.x and 2.6.35.x ?
Those are "special" releases, that have someone who has stepped up to maintain them as a longterm release. I don't see another longterm kernel happening anytime in the near future. They are the exception, not the rule. The normal rule is that the stable kernel is not maintained for longer than a few weeks after the next kernel is released. Hope this helps, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am 28.06.2011 16:13, schrieb Kim Leyendecker:
I want to ask you, f there some plans to change the default browser. The background of that is, that Mozilla, and the new model of development, could be a factor of more work for our packagers and testers.
Switching to another browser by default could be more easy to us, because Firefox could be a potential breaker for the next releases (I remember, that there where several add-ons which didin´t worked with FF 4 and now doesn´t for with FF 5 too.
Maybe a change from Firefox to Iceweasel could be the solution. From my point of view, Mozilla is doing a lot wrong from the release of Firefox 4.0 till today and this could destroy the goal, to deliver a *stable* release.
I agree that the release policy can be an issue. There are a lot of pros and cons but how do you think Iceweasel would help in any way? It's just an unbranded Firefox. So you haven't answered the most important question. Which browser should be the default browser? Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Tirsdag den 28. juni 2011 16:27:25 skrev Wolfgang Rosenauer:
Am 28.06.2011 16:13, schrieb Kim Leyendecker:
I want to ask you, f there some plans to change the default browser. The background of that is, that Mozilla, and the new model of development, could be a factor of more work for our packagers and testers.
Switching to another browser by default could be more easy to us, because Firefox could be a potential breaker for the next releases (I remember, that there where several add-ons which didin´t worked with FF 4 and now doesn´t for with FF 5 too.
Maybe a change from Firefox to Iceweasel could be the solution. From my point of view, Mozilla is doing a lot wrong from the release of Firefox 4.0 till today and this could destroy the goal, to deliver a *stable* release.
I agree that the release policy can be an issue. There are a lot of pros and cons but how do you think Iceweasel would help in any way? It's just an unbranded Firefox.
So you haven't answered the most important question. Which browser should be the default browser?
Shouldn't the choice of default browser be made by the respective desktop teams (kde, gnome etc.) anyway? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday, June 28, 2011 08:02:41 AM Martin Schlander wrote:
Tirsdag den 28. juni 2011 16:27:25 skrev Wolfgang Rosenauer:
Am 28.06.2011 16:13, schrieb Kim Leyendecker:
I want to ask you, f there some plans to change the default browser. The background of that is, that Mozilla, and the new model of development, could be a factor of more work for our packagers and testers.
Switching to another browser by default could be more easy to us, because Firefox could be a potential breaker for the next releases (I remember, that there where several add-ons which didin´t worked with FF 4 and now doesn´t for with FF 5 too.
Maybe a change from Firefox to Iceweasel could be the solution. From my point of view, Mozilla is doing a lot wrong from the release of Firefox 4.0 till today and this could destroy the goal, to deliver a *stable* release.
I agree that the release policy can be an issue. There are a lot of pros and cons but how do you think Iceweasel would help in any way? It's just an unbranded Firefox.
So you haven't answered the most important question. Which browser should be the default browser?
Shouldn't the choice of default browser be made by the respective desktop teams (kde, gnome etc.) anyway? I say, let the Gnome team keep Firefox... though Chromium could be a shiny alternative. AN d I fully support Rekonq on KDE. Its a little rough around the edges, but is quite functional. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:07:21 AM Roger Luedecke wrote:
AN d I fully support Rekonq on KDE. Its a little rough around the edges, but is quite functional.
Browser is as good as number of web pages it renders properly. Browser is also central piece of user web experience, so having rough around the edges as default is at least not responsible. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 01 July 2011 05:17:13 Rajko M. wrote:
On Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:07:21 AM Roger Luedecke wrote:
AN d I fully support Rekonq on KDE. Its a little rough around the edges, but is quite functional.
Why would we want to dispose of possibly the best browser around for something that is sub functional at very best , I design a number of web sites as a hobby more than anything else (all motor sport related sites) i have been thru most of the browsers and whilst there are a couple of mighty annoying problems with FF5 it is far better than the rest of the compertition so once again why change . Time would be better spent doing away with systemd. Pete . -- Powered by openSUSE 11.3 (x86_64) Kernel: 2.6.34.8-0.2-desktop KDE Development Platform: 4.6.00 (4.6.0) 07:09 up 4 days 11:09, 4 users, load average: 0.01, 0.03, 0.00 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, Jul 01, 2011 at 07:15:49AM +0100, Peter Nikolic wrote:
On Friday 01 July 2011 05:17:13 Rajko M. wrote:
On Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:07:21 AM Roger Luedecke wrote:
AN d I fully support Rekonq on KDE. Its a little rough around the edges, but is quite functional.
Why would we want to dispose of possibly the best browser around for something that is sub functional at very best , I design a number of web sites as a hobby more than anything else (all motor sport related sites) i have been thru most of the browsers and whilst there are a couple of mighty annoying problems with FF5 it is far better than the rest of the compertition so once again why change .
Firefox 5 was pushed to 11.4 updates yesterday... Did anyone notice? :) Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 01/07/2011 08:20, Marcus Meissner a écrit :
Firefox 5 was pushed to 11.4 updates yesterday... Did anyone notice? :)
? still have 4.01 jdd (and ff5 by my own dl) -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.youtube.com/user/jdddodinorg http://jdd.blip.tv/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, Jul 01, 2011 at 08:26:17AM +0200, jdd wrote:
Le 01/07/2011 08:20, Marcus Meissner a écrit :
Firefox 5 was pushed to 11.4 updates yesterday... Did anyone notice? :)
? still have 4.01
There should be a "firefox50-upgrade" patch available and get installed default. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Fredag den 1. juli 2011 08:20:15 skrev Marcus Meissner:
Firefox 5 was pushed to 11.4 updates yesterday... Did anyone notice? :)
Didn't notice any problems yet, other than apparent incompatibility with the Moonlight extension. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 2011/07/01 08:48 (GMT+0200) Martin Schlander composed:
Didn't notice any problems yet, other than apparent incompatibility with the Moonlight extension.
Neither my FF5 nor 3.6.18's "get addons" can find any "Moonlight" addon/extension. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 2011/07/01 08:20 (GMT+0200) Marcus Meissner composed:
Firefox 5 was pushed to 11.4 updates yesterday... Did anyone notice? :)
More than 13.5 hours ago installed here. I laugh to myself whenever "default browser" comes up. I open apps first, then choose what to open in them. Web browsers usually take up half the "recently used applications" space in my KDE starter. About the only time "default browser" comes into play here is from click errors, which on most of my logins brings up Konq, not FF. When it's FF, all I see is the choose profile window. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 01/07/11 16:20, Marcus Meissner wrote:
On Fri, Jul 01, 2011 at 07:15:49AM +0100, Peter Nikolic wrote:
On Friday 01 July 2011 05:17:13 Rajko M. wrote:
On Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:07:21 AM Roger Luedecke wrote:
AN d I fully support Rekonq on KDE. Its a little rough around the edges, but is quite functional.
Why would we want to dispose of possibly the best browser around for something that is sub functional at very best , I design a number of web sites as a hobby more than anything else (all motor sport related sites) i have been thru most of the browsers and whilst there are a couple of mighty annoying problems with FF5 it is far better than the rest of the compertition so once again why change . Firefox 5 was pushed to 11.4 updates yesterday... Did anyone notice? :)
Ciao, Marcus
Yes, but I thought that it was the day before... No matter - it's working extra fine :-) . BC -- The Annual General Meeting of Psychics has been cancelled due to unforseen circumstances. The Organising Committee -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Fri, 1 Jul 2011 08:20:15 +0200 schrieb Marcus Meissner <meissner@suse.de>:
Firefox 5 was pushed to 11.4 updates yesterday... Did anyone notice? :)
I saw and installed it, but sadly everything just kept working. This is really unfair! It denies me my constitutional rights on having a good rant! :-P Of course it would be good if FACTORY could also get it. Or is the 4.99 there technically (and security-wise) the same as the one from 11.4? -- Stefan Seyfried "Dispatch war rocket Ajax to bring back his body!" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 1 July 2011 08:43, Stefan Seyfried <stefan.seyfried@googlemail.com> wrote:
Am Fri, 1 Jul 2011 08:20:15 +0200 schrieb Marcus Meissner <meissner@suse.de>:
Firefox 5 was pushed to 11.4 updates yesterday... Did anyone notice? :)
I saw and installed it, but sadly everything just kept working.
I noticed to, I had to change "branding" on SuSE Studio install to have the update complete. So far (disappointingly) FF5 is working as well for me as it has done under Win 7. All my "Add Ons" work, guess I'll just have to be grumpy about KDE4 or GNOME3 instead.. oh well :) Rob -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, 2011-07-01 at 08:48 +0100, Rob OpenSuSE wrote:
On 1 July 2011 08:43, Stefan Seyfried <stefan.seyfried@googlemail.com> wrote:
Am Fri, 1 Jul 2011 08:20:15 +0200 schrieb Marcus Meissner <meissner@suse.de>
Firefox 5 was pushed to 11.4 updates yesterday... Did anyone notice? : I saw and installed it, but sadly everything just kept working. I noticed to, I had to change "branding" on SuSE Studio install to have the update complete So far (disappointingly) FF5 is working as well for me as it has done under Win 7. All my "Add Ons" work, guess I'll just have to be grumpy about KDE4 or GNOME3 instead.. oh well :)
Same here, the FF5 update was completely painless. And on some of our intranet apps the performance improvement is nothing short of *amazing*. Those *@^&@ developers! What is a LINUX desktop user to do when everything just-works?! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Fredag den 1. juli 2011 11:44:48 skrev Adam Tauno Williams:
Those *@^&@ developers! What is a LINUX desktop user to do when everything just-works?!
Surely there are some OBS repos one can add to fix that situation. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am 01.07.2011 09:43, schrieb Stefan Seyfried:
Am Fri, 1 Jul 2011 08:20:15 +0200 schrieb Marcus Meissner <meissner@suse.de>:
Firefox 5 was pushed to 11.4 updates yesterday... Did anyone notice? :)
I saw and installed it, but sadly everything just kept working.
This is really unfair! It denies me my constitutional rights on having a good rant! :-P
Of course it would be good if FACTORY could also get it. Or is the 4.99 there technically (and security-wise) the same as the one from 11.4?
It's basically technically the same as it's beta7 which had no source changes to the final version. The difference is that it uses the beta channel (shipping the feedback addon) and is built from another HG tree. But it'll be added soon. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
El 01/07/11 05:09, Wolfgang Rosenauer escribió:
Am 01.07.2011 09:43, schrieb Stefan Seyfried:
Am Fri, 1 Jul 2011 08:20:15 +0200 schrieb Marcus Meissner <meissner@suse.de>:
Firefox 5 was pushed to 11.4 updates yesterday... Did anyone notice? :)
I saw and installed it, but sadly everything just kept working.
This is really unfair! It denies me my constitutional rights on having a good rant! :-P
Of course it would be good if FACTORY could also get it. Or is the 4.99 there technically (and security-wise) the same as the one from 11.4?
It's basically technically the same as it's beta7 which had no source changes to the final version. The difference is that it uses the beta channel (shipping the feedback addon) and is built from another HG tree.
I like the interface that is used in windows 7 ..why is it that there are multiple GUIs for the same program ? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am 02.07.2011 20:40, schrieb Cristian Rodríguez:
It's basically technically the same as it's beta7 which had no source changes to the final version. The difference is that it uses the beta channel (shipping the feedback addon) and is built from another HG tree.
I like the interface that is used in windows 7 ..why is it that there are multiple GUIs for the same program ?
I guess it's meant to integrate into the target platform as much as possible. Not sure what difference you mean exactly though? Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
El 02/07/11 15:00, Wolfgang Rosenauer escribió:
Am 02.07.2011 20:40, schrieb Cristian Rodríguez:
It's basically technically the same as it's beta7 which had no source changes to the final version. The difference is that it uses the beta channel (shipping the feedback addon) and is built from another HG tree.
I like the interface that is used in windows 7 ..why is it that there are multiple GUIs for the same program ?
I guess it's meant to integrate into the target platform as much as possible. Not sure what difference you mean exactly though?
All of it http://www.blognotes.in/firefox-4-final-ui-in-windows-7-screenshots/ It is totally different from the linux version which looks like http://www.tuxarena.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/firefox4beta7.png -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am 02.07.2011 21:27, schrieb Cristian Rodríguez:
El 02/07/11 15:00, Wolfgang Rosenauer escribió:
Am 02.07.2011 20:40, schrieb Cristian Rodríguez:
It's basically technically the same as it's beta7 which had no source changes to the final version. The difference is that it uses the beta channel (shipping the feedback addon) and is built from another HG tree.
I like the interface that is used in windows 7 ..why is it that there are multiple GUIs for the same program ?
I guess it's meant to integrate into the target platform as much as possible. Not sure what difference you mean exactly though?
All of it
http://www.blognotes.in/firefox-4-final-ui-in-windows-7-screenshots/
It is totally different from the linux version which looks like
http://www.tuxarena.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/firefox4beta7.png
The "Firefox Button" can be enabled on Linux as well by disabling the menu bar. It's different though as there is no way to move the UI into the window decoration bar with Gtk2. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 2 July 2011 20:52, Wolfgang Rosenauer <wolfgang@rosenauer.org> wrote:
Am 02.07.2011 21:27, schrieb Cristian Rodríguez:
El 02/07/11 15:00, Wolfgang Rosenauer escribió:
Am 02.07.2011 20:40, schrieb Cristian Rodríguez:
It's basically technically the same as it's beta7 which had no source changes to the final version. The difference is that it uses the beta channel (shipping the feedback addon) and is built from another HG tree.
I like the interface that is used in windows 7 ..why is it that there are multiple GUIs for the same program ?
I guess it's meant to integrate into the target platform as much as possible. Not sure what difference you mean exactly though?
All of it
http://www.blognotes.in/firefox-4-final-ui-in-windows-7-screenshots/
It is totally different from the linux version which looks like
http://www.tuxarena.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/firefox4beta7.png
The "Firefox Button" can be enabled on Linux as well by disabling the menu bar. It's different though as there is no way to move the UI into the window decoration bar with Gtk2.
I did that already and actually I prefer that it is a little different (under KDE) to Win 7 or I could get quite confused about which system I'm on; with sync enabled and similar add on set & user config, I have to look very closely at FF5 (& 4.0.1) to see which OS I'm running on. I note to how Ars Technica sees the advantages of delivering things like "Do Not Track" early, as well as bug fixes & other new features rapidly to the end users - http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2011/06/firefox-5-released-arrives-o... "Another noticeable change is that the checkbox for toggling the Do Not Track (DNT) header has been moved to the Privacy tab of the browser's preference dialog. Mozilla introduced the option for enabling the DNT header in Firefox 4 even though the header was recognized by virtually no advertisers at the time. That proved to be a sound move and has helped accelerate adoption among advertisers and other browser vendors. Now that the header is starting to gain industry acceptance, Mozilla is making Firefox's DNT checkbox more discoverable by moving it from the Advanced tab of the preferences dialog to the Privacy tab. The DNT option has also been added to the Android version of Firefox, which was released concurrently with the new desktop version. Aside from these minor user interface changes and new features, Firefox 5 brings a number of bugfixes and performance improvements that will improve the browsing experience. Although the changes in Firefox 5 don't seem like much, they illustrate some of the advantages of a shorter development cycle. Mozilla will be able to roll out support for emerging Web standards at a faster pace, making it easier for Web developers to take advantage of the latest and greatest capabilities that the Web has to offer. It will also shorten the time window for rolling out optimizations and other similar enhancements that directly benefit regular end users. One downside of the shorter development cycles is that third-party developers have a lot less time to update their Firefox add-ons for compatibility. We tested a bunch of popular add-ons with version 5 and didn't haven much trouble. Mozilla is already hard at work on Firefox 6, the next update on the roadmap. The new version is expected to bring back WebSockets and add support for Server-Sent Events and the HTML progress element. We are really hoping to see full multiprocess browsing in Firefox 7 later this year, but it's not clear yet if that will happen." Now could something like "Do Not Track" Header gain momentum, if it was just a paper proposal with a provisional implementation in a buggy alpha release, not due for general usage till the next year? Rob -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Cristian Rodríguez schrieb:
El 02/07/11 15:00, Wolfgang Rosenauer escribió:
Am 02.07.2011 20:40, schrieb Cristian Rodríguez:
It's basically technically the same as it's beta7 which had no source changes to the final version. The difference is that it uses the beta channel (shipping the feedback addon) and is built from another HG tree.
I like the interface that is used in windows 7 ..why is it that there are multiple GUIs for the same program ?
I guess it's meant to integrate into the target platform as much as possible. Not sure what difference you mean exactly though?
All of it
http://www.blognotes.in/firefox-4-final-ui-in-windows-7-screenshots/
It is totally different from the linux version which looks like
http://www.tuxarena.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/firefox4beta7.png
The blognotes.in article has mockups that were never really implemented this way, the plans for some time in the future are still similar, but not yet fully done even in the in-development Firefox 7 code. You can get some way in the direction of what the Windows 7 UI looks like if you hide the menu bar through the View > Toolbars menu. Unfortunately, we are unable to draw into the window decoration on Linux, so the Firefox button is being shown in the tab bar instead there. The overall style and icons are of course the results of fitting in with the overall platform, and in the Linux case are taken from GTK/GNOME to a large part, through native interfaces. Robert Kaiser -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 01/07/2011 08:15, Peter Nikolic a écrit :
with FF5 it is far better than the rest of the compertition so once again why change .
it's good to have two browsers. I'm pretty sure most problems come from plugins and bad configured web site, but just yesterday I got a loan contract that couldn't display in FF (my config) but did in Konqueror - it was a pdf file only available through some obscure script and I needed it to complete buying my next car, so it was a problem :-). why don't keep Konqueror as kde default browser? it's very capable jdd (bug report impossible, document passwd protected!) -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.youtube.com/user/jdddodinorg http://jdd.blip.tv/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Roger Luedecke wrote:
I fully support Rekonq on KDE. Its a little rough around the edges, but is quite functional.
Rough is right. I just attempted installing it on a KDE3-only 11.4 system with zypper.conf having installRecommends = no, and zypper wanted to install 56 new packages (cln, clucene-core, giflib, gstreamer...kde4-greeter-plugins...branding...branding...theme...theme...soprano, soprano-backend-redland). That seems an absurd number of requires just to add one web browser to one that already has FF, SM & Konq. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 9:17 AM, Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> wrote:
Roger Luedecke wrote:
I fully support Rekonq on KDE. Its a little rough around the edges, but is quite functional.
Rough is right. I just attempted installing it on a KDE3-only 11.4 system with zypper.conf having installRecommends = no, and zypper wanted to install 56 new packages (cln, clucene-core, giflib, gstreamer...kde4-greeter-plugins...branding...branding...theme...theme...soprano, soprano-backend-redland). That seems an absurd number of requires just to add one web browser to one that already has FF, SM & Konq.
When you install a program that is tightly integrated into KDE, it is going to pull in KDE dependencies. I am not sure why that is surprising. It's dependencies are basically just konqueror and kwebkitpart, everything else is pulled in by one of those. I don't think anyone is suggesting making rekonq the default for KDE 3. Not that I am suggesting rekonq be the default quite yet, I would at the very least wait until a couple releases after the extension system is in place in order to work out the kinks, and wait until after qtwebkit has reached at least 2.2 (this will be the first stand-alone release targeted at desktop, the webkit version shipped with qt 4.7 is ancient). -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Friday, July 01, 2011 12:17:53 AM Felix Miata wrote:
Roger Luedecke wrote:
I fully support Rekonq on KDE. Its a little rough around the edges, but is quite functional.
Rough is right. I just attempted installing it on a KDE3-only 11.4 system with zypper.conf having installRecommends = no, and zypper wanted to install 56 new packages (cln, clucene-core, giflib, gstreamer...kde4-greeter-plugins...branding...branding...theme...theme...so prano, soprano-backend-redland). That seems an absurd number of requires just to add one web browser to one that already has FF, SM & Konq. KDE3 is deprecated, and Rekonq uses the libraries of KDE4. I say, let Rekonq be default for KDE4; not Gnome or any other. Making it defaul on antthing but KDE4 would be like making Lynx default on Gnome3. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 2011/07/01 10:34 (GMT-0400) Roger Luedecke composed:
Rekonq uses the libraries of KDE4. I say, let Rekonq be default for KDE4
Konq (last I checked weeks ago) is the last remaining "major" browser capable of rendering sizes accurately (except by accident) according to actual physical display DPI when the DTE has it accurately configured. Current IE, Opera, WebKit (Safari & Rekonq) & Gecko (Firefox, SeaMonkey & several others) browsers all default to arbitrary equation of 16 pixels to 12 points, though Geckos do have a limited non-default/workaround option to be accurate. A switch to Rekonq from Konq would be no small loss. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday, June 30, 2011 09:17:13 PM Rajko M. wrote:
On Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:07:21 AM Roger Luedecke wrote:
AN d I fully support Rekonq on KDE. Its a little rough around the edges, but is quite functional.
Browser is as good as number of web pages it renders properly.
Browser is also central piece of user web experience, so having rough around the edges as default is at least not responsible. Rough around the edges as in not yet as fast as FF4 and Chrome. I have had no issues with rendering. I would be using it as default if I didn't need the GoogleTalk Plugin. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am 28.06.2011 17:02, schrieb Martin Schlander:
So you haven't answered the most important question. Which browser
should be the default browser? Shouldn't the choice of default browser be made by the respective desktop teams (kde, gnome etc.) anyway?
Makes more sense to do a more equal decision for both desktops IMHO. AFAIK Firefox is the default on both, so I think the successor should be too. -- Kim Leyendecker (kdl@k-dl.de.vu) openSUSE Ambassador, openSUSE Wiki Team DE HAVE A LOT OF FUN! http://www.opensuse.org Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute or create your own Linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. http://www.susestudio.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Dienstag, 28. Juni 2011, 21:01:20 schrieb Kim Leyendecker:
Am 28.06.2011 17:02, schrieb Martin Schlander:
Shouldn't the choice of default browser be made by the respective desktop teams (kde, gnome etc.) anyway?
Makes more sense to do a more equal decision for both desktops IMHO. AFAIK Firefox is the default on both, so I think the successor should be too.
Not if it does not integrate well enough. And only the users of the regarding DE can decide on that. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am 28.06.2011 16:27, schrieb Wolfgang Rosenauer:
I agree that the release policy can be an issue. There are a lot of pros and cons but how do you think Iceweasel would help in any way? It's just an unbranded Firefox.
So you haven't answered the most important question. Which browser should be the default browser?
Iceweasel is still Firefox-like and based on 3.6.x, which is still in maintaining mode and gets security updates. It´s also supported by the Debian-project, so I think this is an unofficial guarantee. thanks -- Kim Leyendecker (kdl@k-dl.de.vu) openSUSE Ambassador, openSUSE Wiki Team DE HAVE A LOT OF FUN! http://www.opensuse.org Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute or create your own Linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. http://www.susestudio.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am 28.06.2011 21:03, schrieb Kim Leyendecker:
Am 28.06.2011 16:27, schrieb Wolfgang Rosenauer:
I agree that the release policy can be an issue. There are a lot of pros and cons but how do you think Iceweasel would help in any way? It's just an unbranded Firefox.
So you haven't answered the most important question. Which browser should be the default browser?
Iceweasel is still Firefox-like and based on 3.6.x, which is still in maintaining mode and gets security updates. It´s also supported by the Debian-project, so I think this is an unofficial guarantee.
Ok, for now it's totally unclear how long 3.6.x will be updated. The current plan says there will be at least one more update but no guarantee that there will be another. And as much as I appreciate Mike Hommey's work on Debian's Iceweasel I don't think that Debian has the ressources to fully support a Firefox codebase security wise (alone). Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am 28.06.2011 21:01, schrieb Wolfgang Rosenauer:
And as much as I appreciate Mike Hommey's work on Debian's Iceweasel I don't think that Debian has the ressources to fully support a Firefox codebase security wise (alone).
Haven´t we people who are working on FF yet? If we switch, we could use these people for supporting Iceweasel. thanks -- Kim Leyendecker (kdl@k-dl.de.vu) openSUSE Ambassador, openSUSE Wiki Team DE HAVE A LOT OF FUN! http://www.opensuse.org Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute or create your own Linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. http://www.susestudio.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday, June 29, 2011 09:16:03 AM Kim Leyendecker wrote:
Haven´t we people who are working on FF yet? If we switch, we could use these people for supporting Iceweasel.
These people is Wolfgang, so far I know. And again where is the difference between Firefox and Iceweasel? Last time I used Iceweasel it was crashing big time. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
El 28/06/11 15:03, Kim Leyendecker escribió:
Iceweasel is still Firefox-like and based on 3.6.x, which is still in maintaining mode and gets security updates. It´s also supported by the Debian-project, so I think this is an unofficial guarantee.
You have just enumerated reasons on why NOT switching to Iceweasel, old buggy code that barely gets attention with nobody capable of providing the man power needed to maintain that huge codebase. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am 28.06.2011 23:06, schrieb Cristian Rodríguez:
You have just enumerated reasons on why NOT switching to Iceweasel, old buggy code that barely gets attention with nobody capable of providing the man power needed to maintain that huge codebase.
okay, I didn´t thought about that, but quite frankly, the code in the current Firefox releases should be more buggy than the 3.6.x one, because since the 4.0 release it seems to me, that the developers at Mozilla becomes some version-number junkies who just want to release the next major version and the next even with almost the same code inside. This seems not the case with Iceweasel which is still based on the old code but gets more tests as far as I can comment this. By the way: Maybe a "hard" change, which means switching completely to Iceweasel is really *too* hard and needs more resources as I thought. But could it be possible to package a RPM for Iceweasel and let it go to factory as an *alternative* browser? I will try to do it on my own (the package) as soon as I can, but my packaging knowledge is very very limited, so is this possible? thanks -- Kim Leyendecker (kdl@k-dl.de.vu) openSUSE Ambassador, openSUSE Wiki Team DE HAVE A LOT OF FUN! http://www.opensuse.org Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute or create your own Linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. http://www.susestudio.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Kim, Am 29.06.2011 16:31, schrieb Kim Leyendecker:
By the way: Maybe a "hard" change, which means switching completely to Iceweasel is really *too* hard and needs more resources as I thought. But could it be possible to package a RPM for Iceweasel and let it go to factory as an *alternative* browser? I will try to do it on my own (the package) as soon as I can, but my packaging knowledge is very very limited, so is this possible?
We need to clarify some facts. Iceweasel is Debian's name for Firefox because they don't want to or are not allowed to call it Firefox. If they currently have Firefox 3.6 shipped under the name Iceweasel (I don't now, as Lenny still has 3.5 afaik), then it's not really anything more than Firefox 3.6. You can have Firefox 3.6 on openSUSE immediately by installing it from the mozilla repo and will get updates at least as long as there are any from mozilla.org. If you want to have Firefox 3.6 in Factory then we need to do some ugly changes to not interfere with a possible Firefox version (for example using the same profile directory). It's still doable but before adding something like that to Factory there should be some confidence that we get security updates somehow even after 3.6.19. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:
Kim,
Am 29.06.2011 16:31, schrieb Kim Leyendecker:
By the way: Maybe a "hard" change, which means switching completely to Iceweasel is really *too* hard and needs more resources as I thought. But could it be possible to package a RPM for Iceweasel and let it go to factory as an *alternative* browser? I will try to do it on my own (the package) as soon as I can, but my packaging knowledge is very very limited, so is this possible?
We need to clarify some facts. Iceweasel is Debian's name for Firefox because they don't want to or are not allowed to call it Firefox.
I had no idea what IceWeasel was, so I looked it up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_IceCat -- Per Jessen, Zürich (23.1°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am 29.06.2011 18:23, schrieb Per Jessen:
I had no idea what IceWeasel was, so I looked it up:
Wrong. IceWeasel is the GNU version, Iceweasel the Debian part. thanks -- Kim Leyendecker (kdl@k-dl.de.vu) openSUSE Ambassador, openSUSE Wiki Team DE HAVE A LOT OF FUN! http://www.opensuse.org Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute or create your own Linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. http://www.susestudio.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Kim Leyendecker wrote:
Am 29.06.2011 18:23, schrieb Per Jessen:
I had no idea what IceWeasel was, so I looked it up:
Wrong. IceWeasel is the GNU version, Iceweasel the Debian part.
Sorry, I got confused. I guess there used to be a GNU Iceweasel, which then became a Debian Iceweasel. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (15.6°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 2011/06/28 16:13 (GMT+0200) Kim Leyendecker composed:
*On Firefox, the FF 4.x line ends right now after the release of 5.0
The 4.x line is the 5.x line, just with new labeling. The 3.6.x line is still supported, and will be until whatever major following 5 (looks like 6 may be skipped) is released. The labeling has to do with Marketing. All other major browsers have major versions well beyond "v4": Safari = 5 (for more than a year now) IE = 9 Opera = 11 Chrome = 12 It's hard to look like a competitive major browser to the clueless masses when your "version" looks so old. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 06/28/2011 10:22 AM, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2011/06/28 16:13 (GMT+0200) Kim Leyendecker composed:
*On Firefox, the FF 4.x line ends right now after the release of 5.0
The 4.x line is the 5.x line, just with new labeling. The 3.6.x line is still supported, and will be until whatever major following 5 (looks like 6 may be skipped) is released.
The labeling has to do with Marketing. All other major browsers have major versions well beyond "v4":
Safari = 5 (for more than a year now) IE = 9 Opera = 11 Chrome = 12
It's hard to look like a competitive major browser to the clueless masses when your "version" looks so old. I am running Firefox 6.0a2 on 12.1 and it works very well. It seems the only issue is flash and a x86-64 machine. So does Thunderbird Shredder 3.3a1. At least on the plugins I need to use. -- 73 de Donn Washburn 307 Savoy Street Email:" n5xwb@comcast.net " Sugar Land, TX 77478 LL# 1.281.242.3256 Ham Callsign N5XWB HAMs : " n5xwb@arrl.net " VoIP via Skype:n5xwbg BMWMOA #:4146 Ambassador " http://counter.li.org " #279316 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Kim Leyendecker schrieb:
Maybe a change from Firefox to Iceweasel could be the solution. From my point of view, Mozilla is doing a lot wrong from the release of Firefox 4.0 till today and this could destroy the goal, to deliver a *stable* release.
On the contrary, the new process will create more stable releases if you speak in terms of crash stability. The Firefox 4 release has not been abandoned, but is maintained as the Firefox release series that in the future will just get an update every 6 weeks (not 3 months, it's 6 weeks), with both security fixes and a small amount of feature updates.
Firefox isn´t that bad at all, but I think the new release policy from Mozilla just slam down the distributor´s plans.
It just means that the regular updates are including a small amount of features, but once you swallow that, it fits really fine.
This makes it more difficult for the packagers to deliver a *recent* _and_ *supported* distribution.
No, you just need to deliver the latest release in updates. Previously Mozilla sometimes broke things in "security updates", shipped a pretty large new feature in 3.6.4, and complaints we low to non-existent. Not that we guarantee that we have tested all updates well and they contain a small amount of feature updates as well, you think it's non-acceptable. A strange move in my eyes, driven mostly by fears of bad things, uncertainty of the actual process and doubt that it works.
Maybe a change could be the right way here, but maybe it´s just my personal feeling!?
It's not just your personal feeling, but still I think it's better to work with Mozilla to find a solution and not just run away screaming. Robert Kaiser -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi Robert, Am 28.06.2011 18:49, schrieb Robert Kaiser:
No, you just need to deliver the latest release in updates. Previously Mozilla sometimes broke things in "security updates", shipped a pretty large new feature in 3.6.4, and complaints we low to non-existent. Not that we guarantee that we have tested all updates well and they contain a small amount of feature updates as well, you think it's non-acceptable. A strange move in my eyes, driven mostly by fears of bad things, uncertainty of the actual process and doubt that it works.
You know that a Linux distribution contains thousands of packages and where would we end up when every package would be handled that way? There is a reason why version updates are considered bad if you want to keep a distribution stable. The key point for openSUSE so far is to keep the behaviour of the whole distribution consistent but secure for its lifetime so nobody needs to run into unexpected changes. Both sides have their points and personally I like to have the latest Firefox (I always had anyway) and given the addon compat is improved so people don't need to end up with non-working addons it's probably the better choice. My biggest concern of all is that Mozilla now _properly_ killed every Gecko embedding application (thanks that a lot of consumers have switched to webkit earlier). For example check what's left: wolfi@Hygiea:~> osc whatdependson openSUSE:Factory mozilla-xulrunner20 standard i586 mozilla-xulrunner20 : PackageKit bundle-lang-gnome-extras chmsee gjs gnome-shell gnome-shell-extensions icedtea-web libproxy-plugins rhythmbox the-board wolfi@Hygiea:~> osc whatdependson openSUSE:Factory mozilla-xulrunner192 standard i586 mozilla-xulrunner192 : google-gadgets libgluezilla0 libreoffice libreoffice-bootstrap libreoffice-components libreoffice-libs-extern moonlight moonshine The stuff above is my current concern. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
El 28/06/11 10:13, Kim Leyendecker escribió:
Dear all!
Maybe a change from Firefox to Iceweasel could be the solution.
So, you are suggesting jumping from the mud right into the swamp...?
Firefox isn´t that bad at all, but I think the new release policy from Mozilla just slam down the distributor´s plans.
It has always been that crazy, is it that just official now.
What do you think?
I will left the decision to the people who actually _do_ the painful job of maintaning this beast, As far as can see, that means Wolfang. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
participants (21)
-
Adam Tauno Williams -
Basil Chupin -
Cristian Rodríguez -
Donn Washburn -
Felix Miata -
Greg KH -
jdd -
KaiRo - Robert Kaiser -
Kim Leyendecker -
Marcus Meissner -
Martin Schlander -
Per Jessen -
Peter Nikolic -
Rajko M. -
Rob OpenSuSE -
Robert Kaiser
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Roger Luedecke -
Stefan Seyfried -
Sven Burmeister -
todd rme -
Wolfgang Rosenauer