On Wed, Jun 14, 2006 at 11:37:43AM -0400, Michael Galloway wrote:

i get this error when trying to update using smart:

Failed to download packages: http://software.opensuse.org/download/home:/cthiel1/SL-10.0/i586/smart-gui-0...: Not Found

That's an outdated version, please go to http://software.opensuse.org/download/home:/cthiel1/SL-10.0/repodata/ and select the current version of the package you like to download. Cheers, Michael. -- Michael Schroeder mls@suse.de main(_){while(_=~getchar())putchar(~_-1/(~(_|32)/13*2-11)*13);} --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory-help@opensuse.org

Torsdag 15 juni 2006 08:59 skrev Pascal Bleser:

...

* I can see no way to tell it to only install X, and Y of the currently available updates, but not the other 20. I prefer to be in control when I want to.

smart upgrade foo

And for the GUI, I don't see what you mean... View -> Hide non-upgrades View -> Hide installed and you get a list of upgrade candidates. There, as with YaST2, you can right click a package and select "Install" (or just double-click the package).

Could you give some more details here ?

As Pascal suggets you can install updates individually. A likely scenario however is that you'd want to install maybe 9/10 updates. In that case just right click on the one you don't want > lock this version. And then hit the "upgrade all packages"-button. Very easy, and you're very much in control at the same time. Don't know if this feedback will somehow find it's way to the devs, but the only things that bother me are: - As with Volker the nasty gtk gui. Works nicely but certainly not pretty - not even for gtk standards. Has almost all the functionality that one would need - only I'd like more search options, particularly with regards to provides/requires issues. - All packages are downloaded before installation - if a download or a package fails everything stops - you can't just skip that one - but have to sort out the issue before you can continue. - Ksmarttray doesn't update the repos I think - I don't seem to get notice of any updates unless I manually update the channels - and that makes ksmarttray pretty useless I think. Don't know if ksmarttray is officially a part of Smart. Would be nice if you could tell it to update certain channels at certain intervals. All of the above is based on 0.41 - will install 0.42 in a few minutes. Nice job maintaining that package Christoph - the devs should be happy to have such a diligent maintainer at a major vendor. Martin / cb400f --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory-help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 (cross-posting on the smart list) Klaus Kaempf wrote:

* Martin Schlander [Jun 15. 2006 11:38]:

...

- All packages are downloaded before installation - if a download or a package fails everything stops - you can't just skip that one - but have to sort out the issue before you can continue.

One probably has to group packages into 'dependency groups'. If a package of one group fails download, the whole group will fail. But this shouldn't influence the other groups.

Not that easy to get right.

Indeed. And you often have dependencies that are needed by more than one package. Imagine you install the packages moo and shmoo, and both require libblah You'd have two "dependency groups": - - moo `-> requires: libblah - - shmoo `-> requires: libblah Not impossible to do, but you'd have to - - download libblah - - download moo - - install moo + libblah in one RPM transaction - - not download/install libblah because you already did - - download shmoo - - install shmoo in one RPM transaction Well, smart considers a "commit" to be a single transaction and hence, it first downloads everything to make sure the transaction will be able to proceed as a whole (unless you specify "--stepped"). That approach has advantages and drawbacks ;) And as Christoph wrote, there's "--stepped" for the CLI and shell interfaces (which is not available in the GUI). Maybe the solution would just be to - - provide a "stepped" boolean option in the GUI - - a persistent "stepped" option, to set the default mode to "stepped" if that's what you prefer Doesn't sound too hard to do. cheers - -- -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/ /\\ _\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEknQsr3NMWliFcXcRAlmXAJoDHG/qr1hkNHh9MjsUJlm0d61WBgCfTmHf WiNMi7l22zdQJfG1WFf5nu0= =1VSJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory-help@opensuse.org

On Thu, 15 Jun 2006, Martin Schlander wrote:

- All packages are downloaded before installation - if a download or a package fails everything stops - you can't just skip that one - but have to sort out the issue before you can continue.

You should use "--stepped -y" to prevent smart from downloading all packages prior to installing them (this is what ZYPP does). There are pros and cons for both methods -- stepped vs. one big transaction. Regards Christoph --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory-help@opensuse.org

Not correct. The handling of URLs and protocols is independent of each repository type. What do you mean with "some types can only be fetched from some locations" ?

It is non-obvious for me what all the characteristics of all the repository types are. As smart doesn't work it out itself (not smart therefore ;) ), I have to play trial and error. I had rather a lot of error - including working out which bit of path it wants. Quite frankly, I don't care about repository formats, I want a tool which I can tell "go there and fix it for me". I understood the name to be implying that.

You must always explicitly tell smart that it's a rpm-md, apt-rpm, yast2, ... type of channel you're creating.

Channel? Is that edible? The termonilogy is a pain. And neither --help nor man smart are helping. It's confusing.

...

* I can see no way to tell it to only install X, and Y of the currently available updates, but not the other 20. I prefer to be in control when I want to.

smart upgrade foo

smart --gui, where? I was playing with the gui only. The command line thing was even more confusing. In fact, I find the whole bloody thing confusing.

And for the GUI, I don't see what you mean... View -> Hide non-upgrades View -> Hide installed

I missed that. Looks good.

Hmm.. you get a change summary for every action,

Wtf is a summary window? It's only empty. When I click the green up-arrow it shows what it'll be doing. I don't see half the stuff you're mentioning.

...

* It needs to handle patch and delta rpms.

Ok. I wonder if there's some form of specification for that.

Run rpm with the patch rpm instead of the full rpm, the result is identical to installing the full rpm, provided a previous version of the rpm is already installed. The delta rpm has to be used to create the full rpm to be installed, from and older rpm, or the installed files of an older rpm (some more conditions for the latter case, but that is the one you want, as you don't need install media for doing this).

...

* Log windows can extend way below the bottom of the screen, no scroll bar, and resizing is disabled. At least the "X"-off button at the top-right window corner still works...

Ok. What windows exactly ? (the "operation progress" window is resizable)

Some error output from installation, when it barfed on 80% of packages.

Install the "smart-ksmarttray" package and start "ksmarttray".

Not SUSE 10.1, but as long as it's there that's fine. (Didn't I say as much?)

Wow, I can hardly agree with you here, that sounds a lot like cheap bashing rather than constructive criticism.

It's my evaluation of it. I am a new user, tried to use it to get a job done, and it failed. That means I have serious issues with its user interface, it's far from intuitive. And therefore, as I said, far from being smart. Sorry, whoever chose that name is aksing for it (and is viewing less than a 90% performance rating as a failure - I'll give 0.41 50%). What I'm trying to tell you is that it's difficult to use. Of course you can call me stupid, I don't mind. No I don't have any concrete suggestions, it's less tangible. Nor do I have time for testing 0.42 or writing more bug reports than I already posted, sorry. I've stuck my neck out and put the effort into writing up what I think is wrong with smart, for this week that's my limit, linux has been to greedy with my time already.

Actually, it's saving the day for SUSE 10.1 for quite a lot of people.

That I can believe. It's not the same as "world's best package management" though.

My opinion is that smart sets the bar pretty high for the yast2/zypp package management.

I'm happy to change my opinion and say in public that smart is damn smart, *after* I've convinced myself of that (believe me, I'm very keen on a functional, fast, convenient packager right now). Until then let's agree on different opinions. :) Greetings, Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann is list0570 with the domain in header http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory-help@opensuse.org

On Thu, Jun 15, 2006 at 01:47:17PM +0200, Christoph Thiel wrote:

On Thu, 15 Jun 2006, Pascal Bleser wrote:

...

...

* It needs to handle patch and delta rpms.

Ok. I wonder if there's some form of specification for that. Also, would need to see whether it's doable in a clean way from Python, as it's totally not integrated with rpm itself (i.e. it's not in librpm).

patch rpms works just on top of our librpm. delta rpms work by externally reconstructing the rpm and just using RPM methods. Ciao, Marcus --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory-help@opensuse.org

On Mon, 19 Jun 2006, Martin Schlander wrote:

Torsdag 15 juni 2006 13:47 skrev Christoph Thiel:

...

On Thu, 15 Jun 2006, Pascal Bleser wrote:

Maybe the two of you should cooporate instead of "competing"? :)

We are not really competing -- we are booth driving smart adoption. The biggest challenge in collaboration is the fact that Pascal offers some .channel files, that we at Novell can't ship for different reasons.

Just read that Pascal calls for testing of his patched Smart packages on 64bit systems.

I'm already testing Christoph's packages here on my 64bit system. Not a glitch so far btw.

I'm a bit confused with Pascals patches though - will those have any affect for gui users?

I haven't really looked at Pascals patch, but might merge it into the SUSE smart package, once I looked at it and once we have some feedback on it upstream.

I have 32bit Mplayer installed though 64bit is available - but it seems to have problems with certain codecs. So I mostly use 64bit Kaffeine/Xine and supplement with 32bit Mplayer when needed. Will Pascals patches cause problems with this?

Hopefully not.

Anyway, it's great that development is being done on Smart - and that we get a chance to try things out early with easy installation of packages from repos. But it's getting a bit confusing for us users (or at least me) which version has which patches etc. Any chance you could coordinate? Or is Pascal working on a fork? :)

Pascal will tell you that he can't split of a smart-channels package, to carry the stuff that we can't ship, because his users are used to get the channels preconfigured and it would obviously be confusing to them to change this. Otherwise it would be quite easy to offer only one smart package for SUSE Linux via the Build Service (and of course in the distribution). Anyway, I understand that Pascal is away from mail until Thursday, so we won't get any feedback from him on this until then.

Is a changelog for 0.42 available (yet)?

Not really -- it's mostly about tons of small fixes :) Regards Christoph --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory-help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Christoph Thiel wrote:

On Mon, 19 Jun 2006, Martin Schlander wrote:

...

Torsdag 15 juni 2006 13:47 skrev Christoph Thiel:

...

On Thu, 15 Jun 2006, Pascal Bleser wrote: Maybe the two of you should cooporate instead of "competing"? :)

We are not really competing -- we are booth driving smart adoption. The biggest challenge in collaboration is the fact that Pascal offers some .channel files, that we at Novell can't ship for different reasons.

Right. Another point is that the BS repos don't have much visibility as of now, at least not as much as mine. Well, we'll see what the best option is. Maybe working together on only one smart package would be better, and just provide a link to a big .channel file with the repos that may not be shipped within a smart package hosted on the BS... Although, frankly, I get a lot of mails and feedback of people who really appreciate that they just had to install the one smart package from my repo and everything was set up properly. I'm not sure I'd want to break this or make it more complicated for end-users.

...

Just read that Pascal calls for testing of his patched Smart packages on 64bit systems.

Yes please :)

...

I'm already testing Christoph's packages here on my 64bit system. Not a glitch so far btw. I'm a bit confused with Pascals patches though - will those have any affect for gui users?

I haven't really looked at Pascals patch, but might merge it into the SUSE smart package, once I looked at it and once we have some feedback on it upstream.

The patch is described here: http://tracker.labix.org/issue177 It's experimental, it really is, so I'd say better don't include it in the BS smart package as of now. I'm waiting for some feedback to see whether it works for others than me (or not). Nothing yet so far :\

...

I have 32bit Mplayer installed though 64bit is available - but it seems to have problems with certain codecs. So I mostly use 64bit Kaffeine/Xine and supplement with 32bit Mplayer when needed. Will Pascals patches cause problems with this?

Hopefully not.

Right, I sure hope not ;) Well, it will cause a "problem", somehow, because when you say $ smart install MPlayer it will install the x86_64 MPlayer RPM, not the 32bit one. You'd have to explicitly say $ smart install MPlayer-1.0....@i586 to install the 32bit one. But I think that should be the case with a pristine smart as well. My patch just changes the behavior of smart when you have a package that's - - both available as 32bit and 64bit - - the 32bit is newer (higher version number and/or release) Pristine smart would install the 32bit package because it has a higher version and/or release number. With my patch, it will install the (older) 64bit package, because it's a 64bit package on a 64bit system ;) A 32bit package will only be installed if there is no 64bit package available - unless, of course, you explicitly run something like $ smart install foo-...@i586 Basically, when you run $ smart install foo smart computes a list of candidate packages to install. That's a sorted list of RPMs (the 1st one from the list being chosen), and an unpatched smart will sort on the version and release number first, while with my patch, it will favor a x86_64 package (on a x86_64 system) first, and then only compare versions. Note that if you already have, e.g., MozillaFirefox installed as 32bit and run $ smart upgrade MozillaFirefox it will upgrade with the 32bit package, not the 64bit one (which is what you'd want). That behavior is already in pristine smart, I didn't change anything there, but just to mention it still works the same way with my patch applied.

...

Anyway, it's great that development is being done on Smart - and that we get a chance to try things out early with easy installation of packages from repos. But it's getting a bit confusing for us users (or at least me) which version has which patches etc. Any chance you could coordinate? Or is Pascal working on a fork? :)

I'm not working on a fork. I've been including a lot of patches, a good part of them having been written by me, but all those patches have been merged upstream (and, hence, are also included in Christoph's smart package), so basically, they're the same, with the exception of: - - the ability to embed mirrors into .channel files (hasn't been merged upstream yet) - - that "better priority handling" for 64bit, but that patch is only in my experimental smart repo, not in the smart package that's available from my main repository

Pascal will tell you that he can't split of a smart-channels package, to carry the stuff that we can't ship, because his users are used to get the channels preconfigured and it would obviously be confusing to them to change this. Otherwise it would be quite easy to offer only one smart package for SUSE Linux via the Build Service (and of course in the distribution).

Exactly. As I wrote above, a lot of people actually like the fact that they get all those channels preconfigured. Putting them into a "smart-channels" package means that users would have to: - - install smart from the BS - - add a repository that contains the smart-channels package - - install the smart-channels package Currently, with my "all-in-one" smart package, the procedure is as follows: http://dev-loki.blogspot.com/2006/05/how-to-install-and-use-smart-on-suse.ht... OTOH, having Christoph, Mauricio and I maintain a single smart package in the BS is of course very compelling. cheers - -- -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/ /\\ _\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEmxtor3NMWliFcXcRAiTjAJ0QvxMTjmp8GaD6QITjS5G1kju0zgCglDrQ SGN+xDZ/6UspNJ4dbveFaPk= =WKTx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory-help@opensuse.org