[Fwd: [opensuse] Re: [opensuse-factory] Plans and Issues for ATI fglrx Driver for 11.2?]
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [opensuse] Re: [opensuse-factory] Plans and Issues for ATI fglrx Driver for 11.2? Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 13:31:14 -0500 From: David C. Rankin <drankinatty@suddenlinkmail.com> Organization: Rankin Law Firm, PLLC To: suse <opensuse@opensuse.org> References: <49DEF757.4000103@suddenlinkmail.com> <20090410123829.GA3247@suse.de> <49E84821.5000204@suddenlinkmail.com> <20090417100233.GA22234@suse.de> Stefan Dirsch wrote:
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 04:13:05AM -0500, David C. Rankin wrote:
Stefan Dirsch wrote:
I don't see what the openSUSE community can do here. ATI is only interested in bugs, if they affect and being reported by big vendors like e.g. HP. But these big vendors are only interested in using SLES/SLED.
Hmm..
Stefan, I'm not sure I follow here. Isn't openSuSE the forerunner for what will end up in SLES/SLED? If so, it just seems to make more sense from a quality assurance perspective to address any issues at the beta (openSuSE) stage before they end up having to (react) to problems with SLES/SLED. The proactive/reactive issue. Moving the bug identification/resolution a bit further upstream if you will.
The absolute crushing blow ATI is dealing its users by dropping support for all R300-R500 cards is simply amazing. Nvidia still provides support for all it cards with the legacy driver. If there is ever a contact at ATI it would be worth suggesting a similar "legacy driver". That just seems like common sense. But then that too is uncommon in todays world. (i.e. a global economy built on "credit default swaps" -- give me a break...)
Hopefully we can find someone with a fglrx.com email address that will entertain some candid feedback and suggestions instead of the current "linux driver feedback" which from what I can tell == /dev/null
If you're interested in becoming a beta tester for the fglrx driver, just let me know. Then you can play the proxy between the openSUSE community and ATI and will notice that ATI ignores the feedback of beta testers as well.
Best regards, Stefan
Oh, Great?! That's encouraging... It seems that ATI commitment to its Linux driver program is superficial at best. That's is the real bottom line here. It's a "take what you get" mentality. All of it's great lip service about wanting "Linux Driver Feedback" and "being interest" in resolving driver issues, is not worth the silicon its written on. You have worked far more of these issues than I have, and we have worked issues together through bugzilla at lease since late 2007, but I have never in my life seen the absolute ignoring of Linux user driver problems than I have in the past 6-8 months. As mentioned, I have filed ATI feedback cases on every single release since 8-10, provided all logs, confs, hardware specks, and it is very apparent that ATI hasn't lifted a finger to even try and identify the issue. The only finger lifted was to hit the [del] key. It has had a positive impact though. I will never purchase another laptop with ATI hardware in it. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi, On Fri, 17 Apr 2009, David C. Rankin wrote:
Stefan Dirsch wrote:
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 04:13:05AM -0500, David C. Rankin wrote:
Stefan Dirsch wrote:
I don't see what the openSUSE community can do here. ATI is only interested in bugs, if they affect and being reported by big vendors like e.g. HP. But these big vendors are only interested in using SLES/SLED.
Hmm..
Stefan, I'm not sure I follow here. Isn't openSuSE the forerunner for what will end up in SLES/SLED? If so, it just seems to make more sense from a quality assurance perspective to address any issues at the beta (openSuSE) stage before they end up having to (react) to problems with SLES/SLED. The proactive/reactive issue. Moving the bug identification/resolution a bit further upstream if you will.
The absolute crushing blow ATI is dealing its users by dropping support for all R300-R500 cards is simply amazing. Nvidia still provides support for all it cards with the legacy driver. If there is ever a contact at ATI it would be worth suggesting a similar "legacy driver". That just seems like common sense. But then that too is uncommon in todays world. (i.e. a global economy built on "credit default swaps" -- give me a break...)
Hopefully we can find someone with a fglrx.com email address that will entertain some candid feedback and suggestions instead of the current "linux driver feedback" which from what I can tell == /dev/null
If you're interested in becoming a beta tester for the fglrx driver, just let me know. Then you can play the proxy between the openSUSE community and ATI and will notice that ATI ignores the feedback of beta testers as well.
Oh, Great?!
That's encouraging...
It seems that ATI commitment to its Linux driver program is superficial at best. That's is the real bottom line here. It's a "take what you get" mentality. All of it's great lip service about wanting "Linux Driver Feedback" and "being interest" in resolving driver issues, is not worth the silicon its written on.
You have worked far more of these issues than I have, and we have worked issues together through bugzilla at lease since late 2007, but I have never in my life seen the absolute ignoring of Linux user driver problems than I have in the past 6-8 months. As mentioned, I have filed ATI feedback cases on every single release since 8-10, provided all logs, confs, hardware specks, and it is very apparent that ATI hasn't lifted a finger to even try and identify the issue. The only finger lifted was to hit the [del] key.
It has had a positive impact though. I will never purchase another laptop with ATI hardware in it.
ATI is part of AMD now, and point one they have claimed to "open" ATI driver development (whatever that means), and point two SUSE has excellent (in communication at least) connections to AMD. So just let's wait and hope, and later infringe SUSE if necessary. Viele Grüße Eberhard Mönkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org) -- Eberhard Mönkeberg Arbeitsgruppe IT-Infrastruktur E-Mail: emoenke@gwdg.de Tel.: +49 (0)551 201-1551 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gesellschaft für wissenschaftliche Datenverarbeitung mbH Göttingen (GWDG) Am Fassberg 11, 37077 Göttingen URL: http://www.gwdg.de E-Mail: gwdg@gwdg.de Tel.: +49 (0)551 201-1510 Fax: +49 (0)551 201-2150 Geschäftsführer: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Neumair Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Dipl.-Kfm. Markus Hoppe Sitz der Gesellschaft: Göttingen Registergericht: Göttingen Handelsregister-Nr. B 598 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Saturday 18 April 2009, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:
Hi,
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009, David C. Rankin wrote:
Stefan Dirsch wrote:
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 04:13:05AM -0500, David C. Rankin wrote:
Stefan Dirsch wrote:
I don't see what the openSUSE community can do here. ATI is only interested in bugs, if they affect and being reported by big vendors like e.g. HP. But these big vendors are only interested in using SLES/SLED.
Hmm..
Stefan, I'm not sure I follow here. Isn't openSuSE the forerunner for what will end up in SLES/SLED? If so, it just seems to make more sense from a quality assurance perspective to address any issues at the beta (openSuSE) stage before they end up having to (react) to problems with SLES/SLED. The proactive/reactive issue. Moving the bug identification/resolution a bit further upstream if you will.
The absolute crushing blow ATI is dealing its users by dropping support for all R300-R500 cards is simply amazing. Nvidia still provides support for all it cards with the legacy driver. If there is ever a contact at ATI it would be worth suggesting a similar "legacy driver". That just seems like common sense. But then that too is uncommon in todays world. (i.e. a global economy built on "credit default swaps" -- give me a break...)
Hopefully we can find someone with a fglrx.com email address that will entertain some candid feedback and suggestions instead of the current "linux driver feedback" which from what I can tell == /dev/null
If you're interested in becoming a beta tester for the fglrx driver, just let me know. Then you can play the proxy between the openSUSE community and ATI and will notice that ATI ignores the feedback of beta testers as well.
Oh, Great?!
That's encouraging...
It seems that ATI commitment to its Linux driver program is superficial at best. That's is the real bottom line here. It's a "take what you get" mentality. All of it's great lip service about wanting "Linux Driver Feedback" and "being interest" in resolving driver issues, is not worth the silicon its written on.
You have worked far more of these issues than I have, and we have worked issues together through bugzilla at lease since late 2007, but I have never in my life seen the absolute ignoring of Linux user driver problems than I have in the past 6-8 months. As mentioned, I have filed ATI feedback cases on every single release since 8-10, provided all logs, confs, hardware specks, and it is very apparent that ATI hasn't lifted a finger to even try and identify the issue. The only finger lifted was to hit the [del] key.
It has had a positive impact though. I will never purchase another laptop with ATI hardware in it.
ATI is part of AMD now, and point one they have claimed to "open" ATI driver development (whatever that means), and point two SUSE has excellent (in communication at least) connections to AMD.
So just let's wait and hope, and later infringe SUSE if necessary.
Viele Grüße Eberhard Mönkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org)
And whilst we sit around waiting for some fictisus little ouik to get off it's butt and do something we meanwhile have computers that are effectivley crippled because we chips from a pissant manafuacturer that could not give a monkeys ! . Do i start shouting at'em or do i make it a front page press jobby . ATI are a bunch of idiots that are totally ignoring their paying customers requests for support because they think they are superiour i may well start laying into them i think cus i am sick of this load of C******S too much pussy footing about when we maybe need the sledge hammer approach . As was said by John Bird (collected broadcasts of Idi Amin) A bullet in di head am always good for starters. Pete . -- Opensuse 10.3 x86_64 (Linux is like a wigwam no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside.) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
peter nikolic wrote:
On Saturday 18 April 2009, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:
ATI is part of AMD now, and point one they have claimed to "open" ATI driver development (whatever that means), and point two SUSE has excellent (in communication at least) connections to AMD.
So just let's wait and hope, and later infringe SUSE if necessary.
Viele Grüße Eberhard Mönkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org)
And whilst we sit around waiting for some fictisus little ouik to get off it's butt and do something we meanwhile have computers that are effectivley crippled because we chips from a pissant manafuacturer that could not give a monkeys ! .
Do i start shouting at'em or do i make it a front page press jobby .
ATI are a bunch of idiots that are totally ignoring their paying customers requests for support because they think they are superiour i may well start laying into them i think cus i am sick of this load of C******S too much pussy footing about when we maybe need the sledge hammer approach .
As was said by John Bird (collected broadcasts of Idi Amin) A bullet in di head am always good for starters.
Pete .
And... if that doesn't work, we can always start a whisper campaign about AMD's possession of WMD's and see if that doesn't get the appropriate resources brought to bare;-) I don't care what kind of company your are big --or-- small, you take care of your customers. Especially if you are a major processor and graphics company in a tight market. Nothing makes worse business sense than to dupe your customers in with flashy marketing and great claims of speed only to take no action when problems arise with the driver. Don't get me wrong, I know ATI is a windows shop, but when you put out a driver and represent it will support card X, then it better support card X or, from a corporate honesty standpoint, you should amend your support representation or step up to the plate and fix the driver so it supports card X. Nvidia has kicked the tar out of AMD in the past 12 months in the gpu market, not only from a speed standpoint, but from a support standpoint as well. The GeForce 295 is running circles around the competition. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-geforce-gtx,2270.html and the Byline for AMD's latest offering (the 4890) says it all. "ATI Radeon HD 4890: Playing To Win Or Played Again?" http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-4890,2262.html Think about it a little bit, "Played Again", just what do you think that is intended to mean? It's not just me that feels cheated by the company. Bottom line, AMD/ATI customer support for it's Linux customers has got to change or there will be no more Linux customers for AMD/ATI. If there is something that Novell can do from it large FOSS customer status, then Novell should step up to the plate for its users as well and figure out how to solve this problem. It's not rocket science, it's a driver bug that should be fixed. Both parties have a stake in getting it right. We know what wait and see will accomplish, you just "wait and see..." I'm just glad their processor division fully and energetically supports its Linux customers. It just seems like a really, really bad dream and I just hope ATI will step up to the plate and give its Linux driver the attention it has badly needed since October '08 so people stuck with ATI cards in their laptops are not left with partially crippled hardware. My Toshiba 205D with radeon x1200 hardware has no upgrade path to 11.1 or 11.2 because the ATI driver locks the system. While on 11.0 with the September '08 driver, it works great. There is a problem, that has been identified, and as mentioned before, ATI has been made aware of it on 6 (SIX) occasions and provided with all logs, install details, and config files; and so far all ATI has said in response is "kiss off".[1] That's customer service for you. [1] I could give the exact details of ATI response to my Linux driver feedback cases, but that would just disclose the complete and utter incompetence of AMD/ATI's outsourced tech support and would be far more maligning to AMD/ATI than just the summary above. (Although, if you search the list archives you will find the sad sorted details;-) cc: atilinuxnovellbugs@ati.com (ATI See thread: Plans and Issues for ATI fglrx Driver for 11.2?; opensuse-factory@opensuse.org for full details) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday April 19 2009, David C. Rankin wrote:
...
And... if that doesn't work, we can always start a whisper campaign about AMD's possession of WMD's and see if that doesn't get the appropriate resources brought to bare;-)
Nothing gets the job done like a resource that has been bared.
...
-- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC
You practitioners of the law sure can turn a phrase! RRS -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
participants (4)
-
David C. Rankin -
Eberhard Moenkeberg -
peter nikolic -
Randall R Schulz