[opensuse-factory] startx via xinit no longer works with the intel driver on a Dell Precision 5530
Hi list, about a week ago I have rebooted into the (at that point) newest snapshot and since then I can no longer use xinit to launch i3 on Tumbleweed from a tty as an ordinary user. `startx` fails with the following error message: xf86OpenConsole: Cannot open virtual console 1 (Permission denied) (this is also the only error in ~/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.0.log) To make this even stranger: switching the graphics driver to Nvidia via `prime-select nvidia` makes X start again (unfortunately with all the Nvidia related downsides). Switching back to the intel driver via `prime-select intel` breaks `startx` again. Does anyone have an idea what might be the cause of this? Thanks in advance, Dan -- Dan Čermák <dcermak@suse.com> Software Engineer Development tools SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nuremberg Germany (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Managing Director: Felix Imendörffer
You need to make /usr/bin/Xorg setuid root: chmod +s /usr/bin/Xorg Maybe there is a better solution but that is a quick fix. On 11/11/19 10:06 AM, Dan Cermak wrote:
Hi list,
about a week ago I have rebooted into the (at that point) newest snapshot and since then I can no longer use xinit to launch i3 on Tumbleweed from a tty as an ordinary user. `startx` fails with the following error message:
xf86OpenConsole: Cannot open virtual console 1 (Permission denied)
(this is also the only error in ~/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.0.log)
To make this even stranger: switching the graphics driver to Nvidia via `prime-select nvidia` makes X start again (unfortunately with all the Nvidia related downsides).
Switching back to the intel driver via `prime-select intel` breaks `startx` again.
Does anyone have an idea what might be the cause of this?
Thanks in advance,
Dan
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
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On 11/11/2019 10.49, Michael Pujos wrote:
On 11/11/19 10:06 AM, Dan Cermak wrote: Hi list,
about a week ago I have rebooted into the (at that point) newest snapshot and since then I can no longer use xinit to launch i3 on Tumbleweed from a tty as an ordinary user. `startx` fails with the following error message:
xf86OpenConsole: Cannot open virtual console 1 (Permission denied)
(this is also the only error in ~/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.0.log)
To make this even stranger: switching the graphics driver to Nvidia via `prime-select nvidia` makes X start again (unfortunately with all the Nvidia related downsides).
Switching back to the intel driver via `prime-select intel` breaks `startx` again.
Does anyone have an idea what might be the cause of this?
You need to make /usr/bin/Xorg setuid root:
chmod +s /usr/bin/Xorg
Maybe there is a better solution but that is a quick fix.
Please do not top-post. That might be, but it doesn't fit with two points: a) it worked previously, b) it works with the nvidia driver. Dan, if you have not done it before, edit /etc/permissions.local and remove the comment mark on the "/usr/bin/Xorg" line, then run: chkstat --system --set - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXclLxgAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1fDzAJ9HrbXEj9ytMgjVSSw8pB857vK68QCeLtF8eUp3Fy9g5+KSGvna6qNfEOg= =tIS7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
"Carlos E. R." <robin.listas@telefonica.net> writes:
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On 11/11/2019 10.49, Michael Pujos wrote:
On 11/11/19 10:06 AM, Dan Cermak wrote: Hi list,
about a week ago I have rebooted into the (at that point) newest snapshot and since then I can no longer use xinit to launch i3 on Tumbleweed from a tty as an ordinary user. `startx` fails with the following error message:
xf86OpenConsole: Cannot open virtual console 1 (Permission denied)
(this is also the only error in ~/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.0.log)
To make this even stranger: switching the graphics driver to Nvidia via `prime-select nvidia` makes X start again (unfortunately with all the Nvidia related downsides).
Switching back to the intel driver via `prime-select intel` breaks `startx` again.
Does anyone have an idea what might be the cause of this?
You need to make /usr/bin/Xorg setuid root:
chmod +s /usr/bin/Xorg
Maybe there is a better solution but that is a quick fix.
Please do not top-post.
That might be, but it doesn't fit with two points: a) it worked previously, b) it works with the nvidia driver.
But neither does your suggestion, as it does exactly the same thing as what Michael suggested, only via a configuration file, that I never touched and that wasn't touched in the time frame in question. Since setting setuid root was never necessary for Xorg in the past 5 years, I'd honestly like to know why it should suddenly be now (and especially why it depends on the driver that is used).
Dan, if you have not done it before, edit /etc/permissions.local and remove the comment mark on the "/usr/bin/Xorg" line, then run:
chkstat --system --set
- -- Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXclLxgAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1fDzAJ9HrbXEj9ytMgjVSSw8pB857vK68QCeLtF8eUp3Fy9g5+KSGvna6qNfEOg= =tIS7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-- Dan Čermák <dcermak@suse.com> Software Engineer Development tools SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nuremberg Germany (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Managing Director: Felix Imendörffer
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 11/11/2019 13.30, Dan Cermak wrote:
"Carlos E. R." <> writes:
On 11/11/2019 10.49, Michael Pujos wrote:
On 11/11/19 10:06 AM, Dan Cermak wrote: Hi list,
But neither does your suggestion, as it does exactly the same thing as what Michael suggested, only via a configuration file, that I never touched and that wasn't touched in the time frame in question.
Since setting setuid root was never necessary for Xorg in the past 5 years, I'd honestly like to know why it should suddenly be now (and especially why it depends on the driver that is used).
Unfortunately, startx does not work without setuid root since many years. I'm amazed that it worked for you without doing it. Rather you did the change and forgot, or somebody else did it for you. Or you loged in as root, or some unknown bug. It is intentional not to allow startx to run. (The difference of "my" method is that it is the official one and is permanent.) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXclWzwAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1VifAJ4n1zkNfKAlQ3fI5gbkNBzdkxnewACeJDdSxyU5yzslT21l+v0CX1seGpA= =xXYu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
"Carlos E. R." <robin.listas@telefonica.net> writes:
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On 11/11/2019 13.30, Dan Cermak wrote:
"Carlos E. R." <> writes:
On 11/11/2019 10.49, Michael Pujos wrote:
On 11/11/19 10:06 AM, Dan Cermak wrote: Hi list,
But neither does your suggestion, as it does exactly the same thing as what Michael suggested, only via a configuration file, that I never touched and that wasn't touched in the time frame in question.
Since setting setuid root was never necessary for Xorg in the past 5 years, I'd honestly like to know why it should suddenly be now (and especially why it depends on the driver that is used).
Unfortunately, startx does not work without setuid root since many years. I'm amazed that it worked for you without doing it. Rather you did the change and forgot, or somebody else did it for you. Or you loged in as root, or some unknown bug.
Well, it worked consistently for years first on Archlinux/Manjaro, later on Fedora and until last week on Tumbleweed. I have never manually set any setuid bit and (as far as I remember) setuid bits are rarely set on openSUSE and Fedora because that requires quite a bit of paperwork (for good reasons).
It is intentional not to allow startx to run.
That is news to me. Why?
(The difference of "my" method is that it is the official one and is permanent.)
I wasn't meaning to bash your method, only to point out that it does the same as the suggested manual fix. Cheers, Dan -- Dan Čermák <dcermak@suse.com> Software Engineer Development tools SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nuremberg Germany (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Managing Director: Felix Imendörffer
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 11/11/2019 16.17, Dan Cermak wrote:
"Carlos E. R." <> writes:
On 11/11/2019 13.30, Dan Cermak wrote:
"Carlos E. R." <> writes:
On 11/11/2019 10.49, Michael Pujos wrote: > On 11/11/19 10:06 AM, Dan Cermak wrote: Hi list,
But neither does your suggestion, as it does exactly the same thing as what Michael suggested, only via a configuration file, that I never touched and that wasn't touched in the time frame in question.
Since setting setuid root was never necessary for Xorg in the past 5 years, I'd honestly like to know why it should suddenly be now (and especially why it depends on the driver that is used).
Unfortunately, startx does not work without setuid root since many years. I'm amazed that it worked for you without doing it. Rather you did the change and forgot, or somebody else did it for you. Or you loged in as root, or some unknown bug.
Well, it worked consistently for years first on Archlinux/Manjaro, later on Fedora and until last week on Tumbleweed. I have never manually set any setuid bit and (as far as I remember) setuid bits are rarely set on openSUSE and Fedora because that requires quite a bit of paperwork (for good reasons).
It is intentional not to allow startx to run.
That is news to me. Why?
Read the comment in the file I told you to edit. I remember it was discussed long ago in the mail lists, but not what was said. Ok, perhaps this old post: Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 14:18:55 -0000 From: ...@googlemail.com To: opensuse@opensuse.org Subject: [opensuse] Can't startx without root priviliges. Yes, first answer is authoritative and says it is intentional. You can find the whole thread in the archive: https://lists.opensuse.org/ Besides of that, startx is little maintained. [reading from a previous answer on mine on this subject] As a consequence, it lacks certain modern features, like the concept of "seat": the person that seats in front of the computer should have the permission to use sound, the cdrom, external storage devices, etc. The display manager handles giving those permission to the person that logs in, without he needing to belong to the pertinent groups. If a different person logs in, he gets the seat instead, and not the other person - who in traditional usage with groups, he still holds the permissions (normally both would have them). Look, the sound devices: cer@Telcontar:~> l /dev/snd/ total 0 drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 220 Oct 20 10:47 ./ drwxr-xr-x 22 root root 6480 Oct 21 02:35 ../ drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 60 Oct 20 10:47 by-path/ crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 2 Oct 20 10:47 controlC0 crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 7 Oct 20 10:47 hwC0D1 crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 4 Oct 26 12:36 pcmC0D0c crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 3 Oct 28 09:37 pcmC0D0p crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 6 Oct 20 10:48 pcmC0D1c crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 5 Oct 20 10:48 pcmC0D1p crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 1 Oct 20 10:47 seq crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 33 Oct 20 10:47 timer cer@Telcontar:~> See the '+' at the end of the permissions? cer@Telcontar:~> getfacl /dev/snd/controlC0 getfacl: Removing leading '/' from absolute path names # file: dev/snd/controlC0 # owner: root # group: audio user::rw- user:cer:rw- <======= group::rw- mask::rw- other::--- cer@Telcontar:~> My user, 'cer', has been granted extended access attribute. If I switch to the text terminal (ctrl-alt-f1) and log in as root, the extended attributes disappear. If on the graphic session I log on a second simultaneous session as another user, that user gets the acls. If I switch back to the first session, the first user gets the permissions back.
(The difference of "my" method is that it is the official one and is permanent.)
I wasn't meaning to bash your method, only to point out that it does the same as the suggested manual fix.
That manual fix is reverted by a cron job and by updates. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXcmmwQAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1QZ+AJsErjx2B7jrO8PDdXefmv5TgXhnwgCcCEVNMjx9Ft37MBlSVOuBe0GPkYU= =Ap2q -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Dan Cermak composed on 2019-11-11 09:06 (UTC):
about a week ago I have rebooted into the (at that point) newest snapshot and since then I can no longer use xinit to launch i3 on Tumbleweed from a tty as an ordinary user. `startx` fails with the following error message:
xf86OpenConsole: Cannot open virtual console 1 (Permission denied)
(this is also the only error in ~/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.0.log)
To make this even stranger: switching the graphics driver to Nvidia via `prime-select nvidia` makes X start again (unfortunately with all the Nvidia related downsides).
Switching back to the intel driver via `prime-select intel` breaks `startx` again.
Does anyone have an idea what might be the cause of this?
An i3 bug? TW20191109 here: WINDOWMANAGER=/usr/bin/icewm startx works as expected. WINDOWMANAGER=/usr/bin/i3 startx produces the permission denied you observed. TW20191003 WINDOWMANAGER=/opt/kde3/bin/startkde startx works as expected. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> writes:
Dan Cermak composed on 2019-11-11 09:06 (UTC):
about a week ago I have rebooted into the (at that point) newest snapshot and since then I can no longer use xinit to launch i3 on Tumbleweed from a tty as an ordinary user. `startx` fails with the following error message:
xf86OpenConsole: Cannot open virtual console 1 (Permission denied)
(this is also the only error in ~/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.0.log)
To make this even stranger: switching the graphics driver to Nvidia via `prime-select nvidia` makes X start again (unfortunately with all the Nvidia related downsides).
Switching back to the intel driver via `prime-select intel` breaks `startx` again.
Does anyone have an idea what might be the cause of this?
An i3 bug?
TW20191109 here: WINDOWMANAGER=/usr/bin/icewm startx works as expected. WINDOWMANAGER=/usr/bin/i3 startx produces the permission denied you observed. TW20191003 WINDOWMANAGER=/opt/kde3/bin/startkde startx works as expected.
Interesting! I'll raise this upstream. Thank you! -- Dan Čermák <dcermak@suse.com> Software Engineer Development tools SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nuremberg Germany (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Managing Director: Felix Imendörffer
On Monday, November 11, 2019 9:18:42 AM CST, Dan Cermak wrote:
Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> writes:
Dan Cermak composed on 2019-11-11 09:06 (UTC): ...
Interesting! I'll raise this upstream.
Thank you!
-- Dan Čermák <dcermak@suse.com> Software Engineer Development tools SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nuremberg Germany
(HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Managing Director: Felix Imendörffer
It would be weird if this is the issue as the WINDOWMANAGER variable seems completely irrelevant. My WINDOWMANAGER variable is currently set to /usr/bin/start-lumina-desktop and has been that way for quite some time. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 09:06:36AM +0000, Dan Cermak wrote:
Hi list,
about a week ago I have rebooted into the (at that point) newest snapshot and since then I can no longer use xinit to launch i3 on Tumbleweed from a tty as an ordinary user. `startx` fails with the following error message:
xf86OpenConsole: Cannot open virtual console 1 (Permission denied)
(this is also the only error in ~/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.0.log)
I seriously doubt this logfile has been created by xinit or startx. IIRC gnome writes the X logfile there for the Xserver which is being used for the usersession itself (gdm greeter uses its own Xserver or Wayland).
To make this even stranger: switching the graphics driver to Nvidia via `prime-select nvidia` makes X start again (unfortunately with all the Nvidia related downsides).
Switching back to the intel driver via `prime-select intel` breaks `startx` again.
This sounds weird, since the only change is an additional X config file, so NVIDIA GPU is being used for rendering instead of Intel GPU.
Does anyone have an idea what might be the cause of this?
Well, I would have hoped people have stopped using xinit/startx nowadays given that we no longer support it since decades. :-( Just use a proper displaymanager like gdm, sddm, lightdm, xdm like everyone is doing and you'll be happy. Even sound and access to nvidia devices for 3D rendering will just work ... Stefan Public Key available ------------------------------------------------------ Stefan Dirsch (Res. & Dev.) SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Tel: 0911-740 53 0 Maxfeldstraße 5 FAX: 0911-740 53 479 D-90409 Nürnberg http://www.suse.de Germany ---------------------------------------------------------------- (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Geschäftsführer: Felix Imendörffer ---------------------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Stefan Dirsch <sndirsch@suse.de> writes:
On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 09:06:36AM +0000, Dan Cermak wrote:
Hi list,
about a week ago I have rebooted into the (at that point) newest snapshot and since then I can no longer use xinit to launch i3 on Tumbleweed from a tty as an ordinary user. `startx` fails with the following error message:
xf86OpenConsole: Cannot open virtual console 1 (Permission denied)
(this is also the only error in ~/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.0.log)
I seriously doubt this logfile has been created by xinit or startx. IIRC gnome writes the X logfile there for the Xserver which is being used for the usersession itself (gdm greeter uses its own Xserver or Wayland).
You can very well doubt that, but I wouldn't have posted it here if 1.) startx itself hadn't pointed me to this logfile, 2.) the logfile was consistently being filled with content on each startx and 3.) I have already used this logfile for debugging purposes in the past. gnome/gdm is definitely not creating this file, because it is not installed on my system, as is no other display manager.
To make this even stranger: switching the graphics driver to Nvidia via `prime-select nvidia` makes X start again (unfortunately with all the Nvidia related downsides).
Switching back to the intel driver via `prime-select intel` breaks `startx` again.
This sounds weird, since the only change is an additional X config file, so NVIDIA GPU is being used for rendering instead of Intel GPU.
Yes it is very weird. That's why I asked on this list.
Does anyone have an idea what might be the cause of this?
Well, I would have hoped people have stopped using xinit/startx nowadays given that we no longer support it since decades. :-( Just use a proper displaymanager like gdm, sddm, lightdm, xdm like everyone is doing and you'll be happy. Even sound and access to nvidia devices for 3D rendering will just work ...
Stefan
Public Key available ------------------------------------------------------ Stefan Dirsch (Res. & Dev.) SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Tel: 0911-740 53 0 Maxfeldstraße 5 FAX: 0911-740 53 479 D-90409 Nürnberg http://www.suse.de Germany ---------------------------------------------------------------- (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Geschäftsführer: Felix Imendörffer ----------------------------------------------------------------
-- Dan Čermák <dcermak@suse.com> Software Engineer Development tools SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nuremberg Germany (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Managing Director: Felix Imendörffer
On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 03:31:47PM +0000, Dan Cermak wrote:
Stefan Dirsch <sndirsch@suse.de> writes:
On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 09:06:36AM +0000, Dan Cermak wrote:
Hi list,
about a week ago I have rebooted into the (at that point) newest snapshot and since then I can no longer use xinit to launch i3 on Tumbleweed from a tty as an ordinary user. `startx` fails with the following error message:
xf86OpenConsole: Cannot open virtual console 1 (Permission denied)
(this is also the only error in ~/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.0.log)
I seriously doubt this logfile has been created by xinit or startx. IIRC gnome writes the X logfile there for the Xserver which is being used for the usersession itself (gdm greeter uses its own Xserver or Wayland).
You can very well doubt that, but I wouldn't have posted it here if 1.) startx itself hadn't pointed me to this logfile, 2.) the logfile was consistently being filled with content on each startx and 3.) I have already used this logfile for debugging purposes in the past.
gnome/gdm is definitely not creating this file, because it is not installed on my system, as is no other display manager.
Ok. So seems $XDG_DATA_HOME is set to ~/.local/share then. Not sure what's our default here. I haven't set this using xfce ... # man Xorg [...] -logfile filename Use the file called filename as the Xorg server log file. The default log file when running as root is /var/log/Xorg.n.log and for non root it is $XDG_DATA_HOME/xorg/Xorg.n.log where n is the display number of the Xorg server. The default may be [...] CU, Stefan Public Key available ------------------------------------------------------ Stefan Dirsch (Res. & Dev.) SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Tel: 0911-740 53 0 Maxfeldstraße 5 FAX: 0911-740 53 479 D-90409 Nürnberg http://www.suse.de Germany ---------------------------------------------------------------- (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Geschäftsführer: Felix Imendörffer ---------------------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday, November 11, 2019 8:51:45 AM CST, Stefan Dirsch wrote:
On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 09:06:36AM +0000, Dan Cermak wrote:
Hi list,
about a week ago I have rebooted into the (at that point) newest snapshot and since then I can no longer use xinit to launch i3 on Tumbleweed from a tty as an ordinary user. `startx` fails with the following error message: ...
I seriously doubt this logfile has been created by xinit or startx. IIRC gnome writes the X logfile there for the Xserver which is being used for the usersession itself (gdm greeter uses its own Xserver or Wayland).
To make this even stranger: switching the graphics driver to Nvidia via `prime-select nvidia` makes X start again (unfortunately with all the Nvidia related downsides).
Switching back to the intel driver via `prime-select intel` breaks `startx` again.
This sounds weird, since the only change is an additional X config file, so NVIDIA GPU is being used for rendering instead of Intel GPU.
Does anyone have an idea what might be the cause of this?
Well, I would have hoped people have stopped using xinit/startx nowadays given that we no longer support it since decades. :-( Just use a proper displaymanager like gdm, sddm, lightdm, xdm like everyone is doing and you'll be happy. Even sound and access to nvidia devices for 3D rendering will just work ...
Stefan
Public Key available ------------------------------------------------------ Stefan Dirsch (Res. & Dev.) SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Tel: 0911-740 53 0 Maxfeldstraße 5 FAX: 0911-740 53 479 D-90409 Nürnberg http://www.suse.de Germany ---------------------------------------------------------------- (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Geschäftsführer: Felix Imendörffer ----------------------------------------------------------------
I am getting this also. It only seems to happen on TTY1. I'm not using i3, so seems to have nothing to do with the Window Manager. I am also using an Intel GPU. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
11.11.2019 19:05, simonizor пишет:
I am getting this also. It only seems to happen on TTY1.
Immediately after user logs in on tty1 /dev/tty1 has absolutely weird permissions - no write access to user - which causes open in Xorg to fail. What is even more strange, immediately after startx finishes permissions are reset to normal - and second startx succeeds. I have no idea what changes permissions. It is not startx, it is not logind, it is not udev. c--xr-xr-T 1 bor tty 4, 1 Nov 11 21:03 /dev/tty1 bor@tw:~> startx hostname: Name or service not known xauth: file /home/bor/.serverauth.2565 does not exist X.Org X Server 1.20.5 X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0 Build Operating System: openSUSE SUSE LINUX Current Operating System: Linux tw.0.2.15 5.3.8-1-default #1 SMP Wed Oct 30 07:12:05 UTC 2019 (ea4c828) x86_64 Kernel command line: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-5.3.8-1-default root=UUID=cc072e56-f671-4388-a4a0-2ffee7c98fdb splash=silent quiet showopts 3 Build Date: 22 October 2019 12:00:00PM Current version of pixman: 0.36.0 Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.x.org to make sure that you have the latest version. Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. (==) Log file: "/home/bor/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.0.log", Time: Mon Nov 11 21:03:13 2019 (==) Using config directory: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d" (==) Using system config directory "/usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d" (EE) Fatal server error: (EE) parse_vt_settings: Cannot open /dev/tty0 (Permission denied) (EE) (EE) Please consult the The X.Org Foundation support at http://wiki.x.org for help. (EE) Please also check the log file at "/home/bor/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.0.log" for additional information. (EE) VGA Arbitration: Cannot restore default device. (EE) Server terminated with error (1). Closing log file. xinit: giving up xinit: unable to connect to X server: Connection refused xinit: server error ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- xinit failed. /usr/bin/Xorg is not setuid, maybe that's the reason? If so either use a display manager (strongly recommended) or adjust /etc/permissions.local and run "chkstat --system --set" afterwards Couldn't get a file descriptor referring to the console bor@tw:~> ll /dev/tty1 crw--w---- 1 root tty 4, 1 Nov 11 21:03 /dev/tty1 bor@tw:~> And grepping strace result for tty1 2103 stat("/dev/tty1", {st_mode=S_IFCHR|S_ISVTX|0154, st_rdev=makedev(0x4, 0x1), ...}) = 0 2103 write(1, "/dev/tty1\n", 10 <unfinished ...> 2100 <... read resumed>"/dev/tty1\n", 128) = 10 2104 execve("/usr/bin/expr", ["expr", "/dev/tty1", ":", "/dev/tty[0-9][0-9]*$"], 0x5570fc602490 /* 65 vars */) = 0 2106 write(1, "/dev/tty1\n", 10 <unfinished ...> 2107 read(0, "/dev/tty1\n", 98304) = 10 2125 openat(AT_FDCWD, "/dev/tty1", O_RDWR|O_NONBLOCK) = -1 EACCES (Permission denied) 2125 is Xorg. Hmm ... same weird permissions also on tty2 where I logged in as root. This is in QEMU VM, so no Intel/nVidia at all. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
11.11.2019 21:09, Andrei Borzenkov пишет:
11.11.2019 19:05, simonizor пишет:
I am getting this also. It only seems to happen on TTY1.
Immediately after user logs in on tty1 /dev/tty1 has absolutely weird permissions - no write access to user - which causes open in Xorg to fail. What is even more strange, immediately after startx finishes permissions are reset to normal
But now ownership is wrong.
- and second startx succeeds. I have no idea what changes permissions. It is not startx, it is not logind, it is not udev.
c--xr-xr-T 1 bor tty 4, 1 Nov 11 21:03 /dev/tty1 bor@tw:~> startx hostname: Name or service not known xauth: file /home/bor/.serverauth.2565 does not exist
X.Org X Server 1.20.5 X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0 Build Operating System: openSUSE SUSE LINUX Current Operating System: Linux tw.0.2.15 5.3.8-1-default #1 SMP Wed Oct 30 07:12:05 UTC 2019 (ea4c828) x86_64 Kernel command line: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-5.3.8-1-default root=UUID=cc072e56-f671-4388-a4a0-2ffee7c98fdb splash=silent quiet showopts 3 Build Date: 22 October 2019 12:00:00PM
Current version of pixman: 0.36.0 Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.x.org to make sure that you have the latest version. Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. (==) Log file: "/home/bor/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.0.log", Time: Mon Nov 11 21:03:13 2019 (==) Using config directory: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d" (==) Using system config directory "/usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d" (EE) Fatal server error: (EE) parse_vt_settings: Cannot open /dev/tty0 (Permission denied) (EE) (EE) Please consult the The X.Org Foundation support at http://wiki.x.org for help. (EE) Please also check the log file at "/home/bor/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.0.log" for additional information. (EE) VGA Arbitration: Cannot restore default device. (EE) Server terminated with error (1). Closing log file. xinit: giving up xinit: unable to connect to X server: Connection refused xinit: server error ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- xinit failed. /usr/bin/Xorg is not setuid, maybe that's the reason? If so either use a display manager (strongly recommended) or adjust /etc/permissions.local and run "chkstat --system --set" afterwards Couldn't get a file descriptor referring to the console bor@tw:~> ll /dev/tty1 crw--w---- 1 root tty 4, 1 Nov 11 21:03 /dev/tty1
Of course I as user should not be able to open it either. Still second startx succeeds. Go figure ... And most funny is that opening /dev/tty apparently succeeds, although it should logically point to the same device?
bor@tw:~>
And grepping strace result for tty1
2103 stat("/dev/tty1", {st_mode=S_IFCHR|S_ISVTX|0154, st_rdev=makedev(0x4, 0x1), ...}) = 0 2103 write(1, "/dev/tty1\n", 10 <unfinished ...> 2100 <... read resumed>"/dev/tty1\n", 128) = 10 2104 execve("/usr/bin/expr", ["expr", "/dev/tty1", ":", "/dev/tty[0-9][0-9]*$"], 0x5570fc602490 /* 65 vars */) = 0 2106 write(1, "/dev/tty1\n", 10 <unfinished ...> 2107 read(0, "/dev/tty1\n", 98304) = 10 2125 openat(AT_FDCWD, "/dev/tty1", O_RDWR|O_NONBLOCK) = -1 EACCES (Permission denied)
2125 is Xorg.
Hmm ... same weird permissions also on tty2 where I logged in as root.
This is in QEMU VM, so no Intel/nVidia at all.
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On Nov 11 2019, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
c--xr-xr-T 1 bor tty 4, 1 Nov 11 21:03 /dev/tty1
Mode --xr-xr-T is 01154 == 620. Looks like some program or config file is using decimal notation where it should have used octal 0620. Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, SUSE Labs, schwab@suse.de GPG Key fingerprint = 0196 BAD8 1CE9 1970 F4BE 1748 E4D4 88E3 0EEA B9D7 "And now for something completely different." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday, November 11, 2019 8:51:45 AM CST, Stefan Dirsch wrote:
On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 09:06:36AM +0000, Dan Cermak wrote:
Hi list,
about a week ago I have rebooted into the (at that point) newest snapshot and since then I can no longer use xinit to launch i3 on Tumbleweed from a tty as an ordinary user. `startx` fails with the following error message: ...
I seriously doubt this logfile has been created by xinit or startx. IIRC gnome writes the X logfile there for the Xserver which is being used for the usersession itself (gdm greeter uses its own Xserver or Wayland).
To make this even stranger: switching the graphics driver to Nvidia via `prime-select nvidia` makes X start again (unfortunately with all the Nvidia related downsides).
Switching back to the intel driver via `prime-select intel` breaks `startx` again.
This sounds weird, since the only change is an additional X config file, so NVIDIA GPU is being used for rendering instead of Intel GPU.
Does anyone have an idea what might be the cause of this?
Well, I would have hoped people have stopped using xinit/startx nowadays given that we no longer support it since decades. :-( Just use a proper displaymanager like gdm, sddm, lightdm, xdm like everyone is doing and you'll be happy. Even sound and access to nvidia devices for 3D rendering will just work ...
Stefan
Public Key available ------------------------------------------------------ Stefan Dirsch (Res. & Dev.) SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Tel: 0911-740 53 0 Maxfeldstraße 5 FAX: 0911-740 53 479 D-90409 Nürnberg http://www.suse.de Germany ---------------------------------------------------------------- (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Geschäftsführer: Felix Imendörffer ---------------------------------------------------------------- Hey buddy, xinit is fully valid. Keep your irrelevant opinions to yourself. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am Montag, 11. November 2019, 17:10:36 CET schrieb simonizor:
Hey buddy, xinit is fully valid. Keep your irrelevant opinions to yourself.
Can you please stop publish your brain farts here. Without Stefan, you wouldn't see *anything* graphical on your monitor (apart from grub and plymouth maybe). With your last three messages, you proved yourself being an antisocial member of our society. Congrats! In this way, you actively weaken the *project*, by making a valuable member feel bad. Stop that immediately. Thanks. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 11/11/2019 17.10, simonizor wrote:
On Monday, November 11, 2019 8:51:45 AM CST, Stefan Dirsch wrote:
...
Hey buddy, xinit is fully valid. Keep your irrelevant opinions to yourself.
Seriously? You say that to Stefan Dirsch? :-O :-O Man, you have just classified yourself as a jerk in everybody eyes. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXcmoQgAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1Q90AKCQ4+gjMSTO4DS7lPRmkwh3XC5PwwCfWpzPIuIjhtEa+L3UJ7HIxjXbDLY= =9nDe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday, November 11, 2019 12:28:19 PM CST, Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 11/11/2019 17.10, simonizor wrote:
On Monday, November 11, 2019 8:51:45 AM CST, Stefan Dirsch wrote:
...
Hey buddy, xinit is fully valid. Keep your irrelevant opinions to yourself.
Seriously? You say that to Stefan Dirsch? :-O :-O
Man, you have just classified yourself as a jerk in everybody eyes.
- -- Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXcmoQgAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1Q90AKCQ4+gjMSTO4DS7lPRmkwh3XC5PwwCfWpzPIuIjhtEa+L3UJ7HIxjXbDLY= =9nDe -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
My intent was not to be rude, but I really do not care if everyone views me as a jerk for calling out someone who thinks that xinit is not longer a valid way to start Xorg. That's simply false. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Op maandag 11 november 2019 23:04:57 CET schreef simonizor:
On Monday, November 11, 2019 12:28:19 PM CST, Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 11/11/2019 17.10, simonizor wrote:
On Monday, November 11, 2019 8:51:45 AM CST, Stefan Dirsch wrote: ...
Hey buddy, xinit is fully valid. Keep your irrelevant opinions to yourself.
Seriously? You say that to Stefan Dirsch? :-O :-O
Man, you have just classified yourself as a jerk in everybody eyes.
- -- Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXcmoQgAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1Q90AKCQ4+gjMSTO4DS7lPRmkwh3XC5PwwCfWpzPIuIjhtEa+L3UJ7HIxjXbDLY= =9nDe -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
My intent was not to be rude You were, and not the first time. , but I really do not care if everyone views me as a jerk for calling out someone who thinks that xinit is not longer a valid way to start Xorg. That's simply false. No matter how wrong the other person can be, you never have the right to insult others. Never.
-- Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 11/11/2019 23.04, simonizor wrote:
On Monday, November 11, 2019 12:28:19 PM CST, Carlos E. R. wrote: On 11/11/2019 17.10, simonizor wrote:
On Monday, November 11, 2019 8:51:45 AM CST, Stefan Dirsch wrote:
...
Hey buddy, xinit is fully valid. Keep your irrelevant opinions to yourself.
Seriously? You say that to Stefan Dirsch? :-O :-O
Man, you have just classified yourself as a jerk in everybody eyes.
My intent was not to be rude, but I really do not care if everyone views me as a jerk for calling out someone who thinks that xinit is not longer a valid way to start Xorg. That's simply false.
I'm sorry, but you can not insult contributors that way. Sure you can express your opinion - I think that xinit has it place - but you can not say "Keep your irrelevant opinions to yourself" to a valued contributor. That's not good manners. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXcng0AAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1R99AJ9U5VgQXjA67nTLPj8AxLkg2m+CaACeMhwXGDpi9PhTgW1Iu9kLg8YGHts= =A7Tj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday, November 11, 2019 4:29:47 PM CST, Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 11/11/2019 23.04, simonizor wrote:
On Monday, November 11, 2019 12:28:19 PM CST, Carlos E. R. wrote: On 11/11/2019 17.10, simonizor wrote: ...
My intent was not to be rude, but I really do not care if everyone views me as a jerk for calling out someone who thinks that xinit is not longer a valid way to start Xorg. That's simply false.
I'm sorry, but you can not insult contributors that way. Sure you can express your opinion - I think that xinit has it place - but you can not say "Keep your irrelevant opinions to yourself" to a valued contributor. That's not good manners.
- -- Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXcng0AAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1R99AJ9U5VgQXjA67nTLPj8AxLkg2m+CaACeMhwXGDpi9PhTgW1Iu9kLg8YGHts= =A7Tj -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
It was not my intention to insult anyone. I was quite instulted by the way that they chose to respond to this problem by simply writing it off as you shouldn't use that anymore. How about we leave the nonsense behind and focus on the issue as we should have been from the start? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Op dinsdag 12 november 2019 00:18:29 CET schreef simonizor:
On Monday, November 11, 2019 4:29:47 PM CST, Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 11/11/2019 23.04, simonizor wrote:
On Monday, November 11, 2019 12:28:19 PM CST, Carlos E. R. wrote: On 11/11/2019 17.10, simonizor wrote: ...
My intent was not to be rude, but I really do not care if everyone views me as a jerk for calling out someone who thinks that xinit is not longer a valid way to start Xorg. That's simply false.
I'm sorry, but you can not insult contributors that way. Sure you can express your opinion - I think that xinit has it place - but you can not say "Keep your irrelevant opinions to yourself" to a valued contributor. That's not good manners.
- -- Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXcng0AAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1R99AJ9U5VgQXjA67nTLPj8AxLkg2m+CaACeMhwXGDpi9PhTgW1Iu9kLg8YGHts= =A7Tj -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
It was not my intention to insult anyone. I was quite instulted by the way that they chose to respond to this problem by simply writing it off as you shouldn't use that anymore. How about we leave the nonsense behind and focus on the issue as we should have been from the start? Again you refer to others' input as 'nonsense', 'writing off'. Which IMNSHO are terms you should not use at all in this case. How many others do you need to see you were insulting? What stops you from making a mature apology? This is not the first time and platform where I see you behaving in a respectless or toxic manner.
-- Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday, November 11, 2019 5:49:28 PM CST, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:
Op dinsdag 12 november 2019 00:18:29 CET schreef simonizor:
On Monday, November 11, 2019 4:29:47 PM CST, Carlos E. R. wrote: ... Again you refer to others' input as 'nonsense', 'writing off'. Which IMNSHO are terms you should not use at all in this case. How many others do you need to see you were insulting? What stops you from making a mature apology? This is not the first time and platform where I see you behaving in a respectless or toxic manner.
I seriously doubt this logfile has been created by xinit or startx. IIRC gnome writes the X logfile there for the Xserver which is being used for the usersession itself (gdm greeter uses its own Xserver or Wayland).
They straight up said that they did not believe that the user's log actually came from where the user said it came from. That is not how anyone should reply to a problem.
Well, I would have hoped people have stopped using xinit/startx nowadays given that we no longer support it since decades. :-( Just use a proper displaymanager like gdm, sddm, lightdm, xdm like everyone is doing and you'll be happy. Even sound and access to nvidia devices for 3D rendering will just work ...
Then they stated that xinit is not supported and suggested that we use xdm instead. Guess what xdm depends on? xinit. This is why I posted these things. It was not at all helpful to tell the user that 1) their log wasn't from where they said it was or 2) to tell the user that xinit is no longer supported and to use a DM that depends directly on xinit. I'm sorry if I came off as offesnive; that was not my intent. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Op dinsdag 12 november 2019 00:56:16 CET schreef simonizor:
On Monday, November 11, 2019 5:49:28 PM CST, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:
Op dinsdag 12 november 2019 00:18:29 CET schreef simonizor:
On Monday, November 11, 2019 4:29:47 PM CST, Carlos E. R. wrote: ...
Again you refer to others' input as 'nonsense', 'writing off'. Which IMNSHO are terms you should not use at all in this case. How many others do you need to see you were insulting? What stops you from making a mature apology? This is not the first time and platform where I see you behaving in a respectless or toxic manner.
I seriously doubt this logfile has been created by xinit or startx. IIRC gnome writes the X logfile there for the Xserver which is being used for the usersession itself (gdm greeter uses its own Xserver or Wayland).
They straight up said that they did not believe that the user's log actually came from where the user said it came from. That is not how anyone should reply to a problem.
Well, I would have hoped people have stopped using xinit/startx nowadays given that we no longer support it since decades. :-( Just use a proper displaymanager like gdm, sddm, lightdm, xdm like everyone is doing and you'll be happy. Even sound and access to nvidia devices for 3D rendering will just work ... Then they stated that xinit is not supported and suggested that we use xdm instead. Guess what xdm depends on? xinit.
This is why I posted these things. It was not at all helpful to tell the user that 1) their log wasn't from where they said it was or 2) to tell the user that xinit is no longer supported and to use a DM that depends directly on xinit.
I'm sorry if I came off as offesnive; that was not my intent. I have not been talking about the technical part, but only about your attitude towards others here. And you should know by now that is an issue. And a pretty basic and serious one. Which only you can solve.
-- Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday, November 11, 2019 6:14:45 PM CST, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:
Op dinsdag 12 november 2019 00:56:16 CET schreef simonizor:
On Monday, November 11, 2019 5:49:28 PM CST, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote: ... I have not been talking about the technical part, but only about your attitude towards others here. And you should know by now that is an issue. And a pretty basic and serious one. Which only you can solve.
I don't see how any of this is relevant to this topic. Please stop. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Op dinsdag 12 november 2019 01:16:52 CET schreef simonizor:
On Monday, November 11, 2019 6:14:45 PM CST, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:
Op dinsdag 12 november 2019 00:56:16 CET schreef simonizor:
On Monday, November 11, 2019 5:49:28 PM CST, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote: ...
I have not been talking about the technical part, but only about your attitude towards others here. And you should know by now that is an issue. And a pretty basic and serious one. Which only you can solve.
I don't see how any of this is relevant to this topic. Please stop. It is relevant to your behaviour. If you display that publicly, expect it to be criticized and discussed likewise. Full stop.
-- Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/12/19 10:26 AM, simonizor wrote:
Well, I would have hoped people have stopped using xinit/startx nowadays given that we no longer support it since decades. :-( Just use a proper displaymanager like gdm, sddm, lightdm, xdm like everyone is doing and you'll be happy. Even sound and access to nvidia devices for 3D rendering will just work ...
Then they stated that xinit is not supported and suggested that we use xdm instead. Guess what xdm depends on? xinit.
This is why I posted these things. It was not at all helpful to tell the user that 1) their log wasn't from where they said it was or 2) to tell the user that xinit is no longer supported and to use a DM that depends directly on xinit.
Given that the person telling you this is the person who maintains the software he is well within his right to tell you that on openSUSE we no longer support not using a display manager and as such wont spend time debugging issues that are caused by using the software in a way that we have chosen not to support. That of course doesn't mean that you are not free to debug and fix the issue yourself and then provide the solution in the distro. As a side note for whatever its worth on openSUSE systems lightdm is generally a better tested more feature full alternative then xdm that doesn't pull in any crazy dependencies and is the default for all the desktops other then gnome and kde. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
On Monday, November 11, 2019 6:23:15 PM CST, Simon Lees wrote:
On 11/12/19 10:26 AM, simonizor wrote:
... Then they stated that xinit is not supported and suggested that we use xdm instead. Guess what xdm depends on? xinit.
This is why I posted these things. It was not at all helpful to tell the user that 1) their log wasn't from where they said it was or 2) to tell the user that xinit is no longer supported and to use a DM that ...
Given that the person telling you this is the person who maintains the software he is well within his right to tell you that on openSUSE we no longer support not using a display manager and as such wont spend time debugging issues that are caused by using the software in a way that we have chosen not to support. That of course doesn't mean that you are not free to debug and fix the issue yourself and then provide the solution in the distro.
As a side note for whatever its worth on openSUSE systems lightdm is generally a better tested more feature full alternative then xdm that doesn't pull in any crazy dependencies and is the default for all the desktops other then gnome and kde.
Mayhap they shouldn't have suggested a DM that depends on the thing they are claiming to be not supported. Either way, this is absolutely silly to be still going on. Lets focus on the problem and stop bickering. This is not helping anything. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/12/19 10:55 AM, simonizor wrote:
On Monday, November 11, 2019 6:23:15 PM CST, Simon Lees wrote:
On 11/12/19 10:26 AM, simonizor wrote:
... Then they stated that xinit is not supported and suggested that we use xdm instead. Guess what xdm depends on? xinit.
This is why I posted these things. It was not at all helpful to tell the user that 1) their log wasn't from where they said it was or 2) to tell the user that xinit is no longer supported and to use a DM that ...
Given that the person telling you this is the person who maintains the software he is well within his right to tell you that on openSUSE we no longer support not using a display manager and as such wont spend time debugging issues that are caused by using the software in a way that we have chosen not to support. That of course doesn't mean that you are not free to debug and fix the issue yourself and then provide the solution in the distro.
As a side note for whatever its worth on openSUSE systems lightdm is generally a better tested more feature full alternative then xdm that doesn't pull in any crazy dependencies and is the default for all the desktops other then gnome and kde.
Mayhap they shouldn't have suggested a DM that depends on the thing they are claiming to be not supported.
I don't think he meant to claim that its entirely unsupported (if that was the case it would be dropped), but that the way you were attempting to use it is no longer supported. In the same way that I as the dbus maintainer am well within my right to say I won't support any bugs you find in dbus if your using bash as your init system instead of systemd. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
On Monday, November 11, 2019 6:36:02 PM CST, Simon Lees wrote:
On 11/12/19 10:55 AM, simonizor wrote:
On Monday, November 11, 2019 6:23:15 PM CST, Simon Lees wrote: ...
I don't think he meant to claim that its entirely unsupported (if that was the case it would be dropped), but that the way you were attempting to use it is no longer supported. In the same way that I as the dbus maintainer am well within my right to say I won't support any bugs you find in dbus if your using bash as your init system instead of systemd.
That stance makes absolutely no sense, sorry. xinit is a prefectly valid way to start a single user system. Most desktop users have single user systems. No other distro claims that they won't help you use xinit, and many of them recommend it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/12/19 11:09 AM, simonizor wrote:
On Monday, November 11, 2019 6:36:02 PM CST, Simon Lees wrote:
On 11/12/19 10:55 AM, simonizor wrote:
On Monday, November 11, 2019 6:23:15 PM CST, Simon Lees wrote: ...
I don't think he meant to claim that its entirely unsupported (if that was the case it would be dropped), but that the way you were attempting to use it is no longer supported. In the same way that I as the dbus maintainer am well within my right to say I won't support any bugs you find in dbus if your using bash as your init system instead of systemd.
That stance makes absolutely no sense, sorry. xinit is a prefectly valid way to start a single user system. Most desktop users have single user systems. No other distro claims that they won't help you use xinit, and many of them recommend it.
Well personally I have no idea if enlightenment as configured in openSUSE still supports xinit because it requires a systemd user session for session management and I have no idea if xinit is capable of setting that up correctly but I know lightdm does. I wouldn't be surprised if other desktops have similar requirements especially those that support wayland. Regardless of what other desktops do its something our maintainer has said they are not supporting but that doesn't mean you or someone else can't help them support it if the stuff required to support it isn't deemed to be detrimental to other systems, such as crazy patches or enabling settings that may cause security issues etc. And that is about all I have to say on this issue. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
simonizor composed on 2019-11-11 17:56 (UTC-0600):
Stefan Dirsch composed on 2019-11-11 15:51 (UTC+0100):
I seriously doubt this logfile has been created by xinit or startx. IIRC gnome writes the X logfile there for the Xserver which is being used for the usersession itself (gdm greeter uses its own Xserver or Wayland).
They straight up said that they did not believe that the user's log actually came from where the user said it came from.
Stefan is actually one of the few people on the planet capable of making that statement with any authority.
That is not how anyone should reply to a problem.
It it was too factual for you maybe you should have asked for an explanation rather than being grossly impolite. That someone is not only the Xorg maintainer - he's the one most likely to provide a solution to an apparently insurmountable Xorg problem help plea, or to fix an Xorg bug reported by a mere mortal openSUSE user, and then upstream when that's the bug's source. He's part of the upstream Xorg team and a long time *contributor* to the whole project, a past board member (one of the earliest <https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Board_history>), and past driver of the whole build system.
Well, I would have hoped people have stopped using xinit/startx nowadays given that we no longer support it since decades. :-( Just use a proper displaymanager like gdm, sddm, lightdm, xdm like everyone is doing and you'll be happy. Even sound and access to nvidia devices for 3D rendering will just work ...
Then they stated that xinit is not supported and suggested that we use xdm instead. Guess what xdm depends on? xinit.
It's not supported as you are using it. If you weren't new here you would know he's repeatedly told us startx has long been deprecated by the project (<https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1120836#c1>). It remains in upstream, and thus in openSUSE, because there are (limited) circumstances requiring it. Report a bug about it and you can expect him to be the one to WONTFIX or upstream it(<https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=929016> <https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=952781> <https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=974660>). If you are a nice upstanding community member, he might fix one (<https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=915006>).
This is why I posted these things. It was not at all helpful to tell the user that 1) their log wasn't from where they said it was or 2) to tell the user that xinit is no longer supported and to use a DM that depends directly on xinit.
That is your opinion, not established fact. Being told the truth is a price you may be expected to pay for inventing opportunities to be offended, as you did in this thread. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 08:15:40PM -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
simonizor composed on 2019-11-11 17:56 (UTC-0600):
Stefan Dirsch composed on 2019-11-11 15:51 (UTC+0100):
I seriously doubt this logfile has been created by xinit or startx. IIRC gnome writes the X logfile there for the Xserver which is being used for the usersession itself (gdm greeter uses its own Xserver or Wayland).
They straight up said that they did not believe that the user's log actually came from where the user said it came from.
Stefan is actually one of the few people on the planet capable of making that statement with any authority.
Now I feel a bit embarassed. ;-) I wasn't aware being that popular and that even in a positive sense. ;-) I was indeed wrong in the assumption, that ~/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.n.log would have been created by GNOME and not xinit/startx/Xorg itself. I'm still learning about "new" features of X server using $XDG_DATA_HOME/xorg/Xorg.n.log for regular users meanwhile. It wasn't my intention to define what's appropriate to use and what not, just to make clear that we're no longer looking closely into startx/xinit problems since a long time. Using those should be limited to a special use case, where you know exactly what you're doing and not expecting much help if you are crying for help. ;-) And there are still users around using startx/xinit because they do this since 20 years (or getting told this by people using it since 20 years), for whom it would make things even much easier to use a displaymanager nowadays. It's hard to judge if one of these is writing or a person with a special case depending on xinit/startx, if you don't that person. Funfact: For testing I prefer to start Xorg manually, export my DISPLAY and run the approprite X application that way. I can do this easily also via ssh. ;-) Thanks, Stefan P.S.: I have never been on the openSUSE board. I believe Felix is mixing me up with Stephan Kulow in this aspect here. ;-) Public Key available ------------------------------------------------------ Stefan Dirsch (Res. & Dev.) SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Tel: 0911-740 53 0 Maxfeldstraße 5 FAX: 0911-740 53 479 D-90409 Nürnberg http://www.suse.de Germany ---------------------------------------------------------------- (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Geschäftsführer: Felix Imendörffer ---------------------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/12/19 2:52 PM, Stefan Dirsch wrote:
P.S.: I have never been on the openSUSE board. I believe Felix is mixing me up with Stephan Kulow in this aspect here. ;-)
Or any other Stephan :) Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 12/11/2019 14.52, Stefan Dirsch wrote:
On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 08:15:40PM -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
simonizor composed on 2019-11-11 17:56 (UTC-0600):
Stefan Dirsch composed on 2019-11-11 15:51 (UTC+0100):
I seriously doubt this logfile has been created by xinit or startx. IIRC gnome writes the X logfile there for the Xserver which is being used for the usersession itself (gdm greeter uses its own Xserver or Wayland).
They straight up said that they did not believe that the user's log actually came from where the user said it came from.
Stefan is actually one of the few people on the planet capable of making that statement with any authority.
Now I feel a bit embarassed. ;-) I wasn't aware being that popular and that even in a positive sense. ;-)
I was indeed wrong in the assumption, that ~/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.n.log would have been created by GNOME and not xinit/startx/Xorg itself. I'm still learning about "new" features of X server using $XDG_DATA_HOME/xorg/Xorg.n.log for regular users meanwhile.
It wasn't my intention to define what's appropriate to use and what not, just to make clear that we're no longer looking closely into startx/xinit problems since a long time. Using those should be limited to a special use case, where you know exactly what you're doing and not expecting much help if you are crying for help. ;-)
And there are still users around using startx/xinit because they do this since 20 years (or getting told this by people using it since 20 years), for whom it would make things even much easier to use a displaymanager nowadays.
My use case for startx is simply when the "normal way" fails because of some graphical problem, like when building and checking the nvidia driver. And that's it, never for actual usage ;-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXcrtRwAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1Q6rAJ0UV5ks6sGEGE9yAxo+RmGU/cMKPgCfUYKOmpqu09TA7jPUPyAcd6Hxqpc= =Kp82 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. composed on 2019-11-12 18:35 (UTC+0100):
Stefan Dirsch wrote:
On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 08:15:40PM -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
Stefan is actually one of the few people on the planet capable of making that statement with any authority. ... And there are still users around using startx/xinit because they do this since 20 years (or getting told this by people using it since 20 years), for whom it would make things even much easier to use a displaymanager nowadays.
My use case for startx is simply when the "normal way" fails because of some graphical problem, like when building and checking the nvidia driver. And that's it, never for actual usage ;-)
Mine started years ago, to run one user in native display mode, while others simultaneously on displays :[1-2] using other display modes via the XORGCONFIG= ENVAR. It's seriously more convenient while mostly keyboarding to skip any DM when doing repeated session starts and stops to test startup configs. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Unfortunately, startx does not work without setuid root since many years. I'm amazed that it worked for you without doing it. Rather you did the change and forgot, or somebody else did it for you. Or you loged in as root, or some unknown bug.
This is comnpletely wrong. I have been using startx since I started using Tumbleweed 2 years ago, and I did not start having an issue until very recently. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
I seriously doubt this logfile has been created by xinit or startx. IIRC gnome writes the X logfile there for the Xserver which is being used for the usersession itself (gdm greeter uses its own Xserver or Wayland).
Well, I would have hoped people have stopped using xinit/startx nowadays given that we no longer support it since decades. :-( Just use a proper displaymanager like gdm, sddm, lightdm, xdm like everyone is doing and you'll be happy. Even sound and access to nvidia devices for 3D rendering will just work ...
Just gonna step off topic here for a second... this type of behavior is ridiculous. If you're not helping, don't post.
Unfortunately, startx does not work without setuid root since many years. I'm amazed that it worked for you without doing it. Rather you did the change and forgot, or somebody else did it for you. Or you loged in as root, or some unknown bug.
Same goes for if you don't know what you're talking about. This advice is so far off that it just makes absolutely no sense at all and would only make the issue worse if the user tried to follow it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am Montag, 11. November 2019, 15:51:45 CET schrieb Stefan Dirsch:
Well, I would have hoped people have stopped using xinit/startx nowadays given that we no longer support it since decades. :-( Just use a proper displaymanager like gdm, sddm, lightdm, xdm like everyone is doing and you'll be happy.
Hmm, I remember using it for a specialized POS system, where a display manager won't do any good... Cheers, Pete -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 05:59:34PM +0100, Hans-Peter Jansen wrote:
Am Montag, 11. November 2019, 15:51:45 CET schrieb Stefan Dirsch:
Well, I would have hoped people have stopped using xinit/startx nowadays given that we no longer support it since decades. :-( Just use a proper displaymanager like gdm, sddm, lightdm, xdm like everyone is doing and you'll be happy.
Hmm, I remember using it for a specialized POS system, where a display manager won't do any good...
Sure, that's definitely a one-application scenario, which may even work without a windowmanager. Although I would expect focus issues without having any. Which is still the reason why YaST runs on top of icewm during installation (although you don't see it) ... CU, Stefan Public Key available ------------------------------------------------------ Stefan Dirsch (Res. & Dev.) SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Tel: 0911-740 53 0 Maxfeldstraße 5 FAX: 0911-740 53 479 D-90409 Nürnberg http://www.suse.de Germany ---------------------------------------------------------------- (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Geschäftsführer: Felix Imendörffer ---------------------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
participants (12)
-
Andreas Schwab -
Andrei Borzenkov -
Carlos E. R. -
Dan Cermak -
Felix Miata -
Hans-Peter Jansen -
Knurpht-openSUSE -
Michael Pujos -
Simon Lees -
simonizor -
Stefan Dirsch -
Stephan Kulow