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Hi everyone,
while updating lxc to the latest version I came across one question:
Is there any particular reason, why the virtualization-project (https://build.opensuse.org/project/show/Virtualization) is not built against/for tumbleweed? If not, could one of the maintainers please correct that?
Regards, Johannes - -- You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the US of arrogance, and Germany doesn't want to go to war. (aus alt.jokes)
On Thu, Mar 13, Johannes Kastl wrote:
Is there any particular reason, why the virtualization-project (https://build.opensuse.org/project/show/Virtualization) is not built against/for tumbleweed? If not, could one of the maintainers please correct that?
Is there a particular reason why the 13.1 repository in Virtualization is not good enough?
Olaf
* Olaf Hering olaf@aepfle.de [03-14-14 03:58]:
On Thu, Mar 13, Johannes Kastl wrote:
Is there any particular reason, why the virtualization-project (https://build.opensuse.org/project/show/Virtualization) is not built against/for tumbleweed? If not, could one of the maintainers please correct that?
Is there a particular reason why the 13.1 repository in Virtualization is not good enough?
I will try to answer this. Tumbleweed *only* matches 13.1 repos when 13.1 is very new and after aligns more closely with 13.1-Updates but not completely and in the future will be aligned with 13.2 or the successor to 13.1. A Tumbleweed user adding 13.1 repos is looking for future, and maybe even present, unforseen problems
Greg KH advises *only*: openSUSE Current OSS openSUSE Current OSS debug openSUSE Current OSS non-OSS openSUSE Current OSS updates Tumbleweed (standard)
You can see that 13.1 doesn't fit.
Am 14.03.2014 14:37, schrieb Patrick Shanahan:
Greg KH advises *only*: openSUSE Current OSS
which is 13.1
openSUSE Current OSS debug
which is 13.1-debug
openSUSE Current OSS non-OSS
which is 13.1-non-oss
openSUSE Current OSS updates
which is 13.1-updates
Tumbleweed (standard)
You can see that 13.1 doesn't fit.
I cannot see that.
BTW, Virtualization/Tumbleweed also wouldn't fit, so what?
* Stefan Seyfried stefan.seyfried@googlemail.com [03-14-14 19:29]:
Am 14.03.2014 14:37, schrieb Patrick Shanahan:
Greg KH advises *only*: openSUSE Current OSS
which is 13.1
openSUSE Current OSS debug
which is 13.1-debug
openSUSE Current OSS non-OSS
which is 13.1-non-oss
openSUSE Current OSS updates
which is 13.1-updates
Tumbleweed (standard)
You can see that 13.1 doesn't fit.
I cannot see that.
The equate to 13.1 *now*, but when 13.1+ is out, they will not. So that's what.
BTW, Virtualization/Tumbleweed also wouldn't fit, so what?
But it is built for Tumbleweed and while Greg does not advise it, I have it and other *designated* Tumbleweed builds integrated into my desktop system.
Would you advise adding a 12.3 repo to a 13.1 install or the opposite, as 13.1 repo to a 12.3 install. They both might work, for a while, or not.
A little common sense is definitely applicable.
Am 15.03.2014 00:35, schrieb Patrick Shanahan:
The equate to 13.1 *now*, but when 13.1+ is out, they will not. So that's what.
Well, when 13.2 is out, then Virtualization will also get 13.2 enabled.
BTW, Virtualization/Tumbleweed also wouldn't fit, so what?
But it is built for Tumbleweed and while Greg does not advise it, I have it and other *designated* Tumbleweed builds integrated into my desktop system.
But as long as no vital dependencies for the Virtualization packages are much newer in Tumbleweed, that will not make a difference.
Would you advise adding a 12.3 repo to a 13.1 install or the opposite, as 13.1 repo to a 12.3 install. They both might work, for a while, or not.
No, but Tumbleweed is not 13.2, it is 13.1 plus a few selected updates.
* Stefan Seyfried stefan.seyfried@googlemail.com [03-14-14 19:39]:
Am 15.03.2014 00:35, schrieb Patrick Shanahan:
The equate to 13.1 *now*, but when 13.1+ is out, they will not. So that's what.
Well, when 13.2 is out, then Virtualization will also get 13.2 enabled.
But the *idea* of Tumbleweed is a semi-tranparent continual version upgrade and using Tumbleweed repos does not require the <user> to drop one repo and install another as in *this* case.
BTW, Virtualization/Tumbleweed also wouldn't fit, so what?
But it is built for Tumbleweed and while Greg does not advise it, I have it and other *designated* Tumbleweed builds integrated into my desktop system.
But as long as no vital dependencies for the Virtualization packages are much newer in Tumbleweed, that will not make a difference.
And you have included a limiting parameter. *What* if dependencies *are* changed?
Would you advise adding a 12.3 repo to a 13.1 install or the opposite, as 13.1 repo to a 12.3 install. They both might work, for a while, or not.
No, but Tumbleweed is not 13.2, it is 13.1 plus a few selected updates.
That is correct and it is not "13.1" as you have indicated. It is "Tumbleweed".
This argument can continue ad .... and while *you* are *specifically* correct, your logic is not as Tumbleweed is intended and will eventually cause problems, especially for one not understanding.
One may also utilize rpm's from other distros and/or compile from tar-ball and see no *immediate* problems, but will eventually get bit unless he possesses the knowledge, ability and resources to solve the problem he creates.
On Fri, Mar 14, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
- Stefan Seyfried stefan.seyfried@googlemail.com [03-14-14 19:39]:
Am 15.03.2014 00:35, schrieb Patrick Shanahan:
The equate to 13.1 *now*, but when 13.1+ is out, they will not. So that's what.
Well, when 13.2 is out, then Virtualization will also get 13.2 enabled.
But the *idea* of Tumbleweed is a semi-tranparent continual version upgrade and using Tumbleweed repos does not require the <user> to drop one repo and install another as in *this* case.
If thats the case, you certainly have a point.
But as of today it would mean that all "openSUSE_13.1" repos get dropped in favor of a "openSUSE_Tumbleweed" repo. And by the time Tumbleweed builds against the next release (13.2) everything gets a "openSUSE_13.1" repo, but no "openSUSE_13.2" repo.
While I can easily adjust Virtualization to burn more OBS and mirroring resources, its not the call of Virtualization maintainers to make such decision. Instead some clear guidelines have to be defined and written down (with reasoning!) how addon repos have to look like.
Olaf
* Olaf Hering olaf@aepfle.de [03-17-14 05:28]:
On Fri, Mar 14, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
- Stefan Seyfried stefan.seyfried@googlemail.com [03-14-14 19:39]:
Am 15.03.2014 00:35, schrieb Patrick Shanahan:
The equate to 13.1 *now*, but when 13.1+ is out, they will not. So that's what.
Well, when 13.2 is out, then Virtualization will also get 13.2 enabled.
But the *idea* of Tumbleweed is a semi-tranparent continual version upgrade and using Tumbleweed repos does not require the <user> to drop one repo and install another as in *this* case.
If thats the case, you certainly have a point.
But as of today it would mean that all "openSUSE_13.1" repos get dropped in favor of a "openSUSE_Tumbleweed" repo. And by the time Tumbleweed builds against the next release (13.2) everything gets a "openSUSE_13.1" repo, but no "openSUSE_13.2" repo.
No, iiuc, Greg KH determines when openSUSE "Version", 13.2 in the current case, is palatable and redirects the openSUSE "Current ..." and Tumbleweed (standard ...) repos to use 13.2 builds. Tumbleweed repos essentially represent *Current* versions builds. "Or" I misunderstand your statement.
While I can easily adjust Virtualization to burn more OBS and mirroring resources, its not the call of Virtualization maintainers to make such decision. Instead some clear guidelines have to be defined and written down (with reasoning!) how addon repos have to look like.
While *many* packagers appear to have decided on their own to provide Tumbleweed builds, some packagers have provided Tw builds based on user requests. I fail to understand the need for guidelines other than acknowledging user *requests*.
Aside the current conversation, your contributions as a packager are much appreciated. Thankyou
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On 17.03.14 10:25 Olaf Hering wrote:
While I can easily adjust Virtualization to burn more OBS and mirroring resources,
I would appreciate, if you could enable building against Tumbleweed.
its not the call of Virtualization maintainers to make such decision. Instead some clear guidelines have to be defined and written down (with reasoning!) how addon repos have to look like.
I cannot say if there is a need for this, but I am just an end user...
Regards, Johannes - -- I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect. (Linus Torvalds)
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On 17.03.2014 10:25 Olaf Hering wrote:
While I can easily adjust Virtualization to burn more OBS and mirroring resources, its not the call of Virtualization maintainers to make such decision.
I was away for some time, has anything been happening in regard to this issue?
Regards, Johannes - -- Is our children learning? (George W. Bush)
Hi Johannes,
Am 22.03.2014 08:26, schrieb Johannes Kastl:
On 17.03.2014 10:25 Olaf Hering wrote:
While I can easily adjust Virtualization to burn more OBS and mirroring resources, its not the call of Virtualization maintainers to make such decision.
I was away for some time, has anything been happening in regard to this issue?
There is no issue. The 13.1 repositories will just work fine with Tumbleweed.
If they no longer do, we can consider spending build cycles on yet another repository.
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Hi Stefan,
On 22.03.14 15:32 Stefan Seyfried wrote:
Am 22.03.2014 08:26, schrieb Johannes Kastl:
On 17.03.2014 10:25 Olaf Hering wrote:
While I can easily adjust Virtualization to burn more OBS and mirroring resources, its not the call of Virtualization maintainers to make such decision.
I was away for some time, has anything been happening in regard to this issue?
There is no issue. The 13.1 repositories will just work fine with Tumbleweed.
Actually, I'll have to try it, as no one seems to need this combination but me. So I'll let you know what happens...
Maybe I misunderstood, what Tumbleweed was about. Maybe all the stuff in Virtualization should be in Tumbleweed itself. Greg, wanna have a say?
Regards, Johannes - -- Working with Unix is like wrestling a worthy opponent. Working with windows is like attacking a small whining child who is carrying a .38.
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On 13.03.14 Johannes Kastl wrote:
Is there any particular reason, why the virtualization-project (https://build.opensuse.org/project/show/Virtualization) is not built against/for tumbleweed? If not, could one of the maintainers please correct that?
I would like to bring this up again. Virtualization is built against Factory, maybe we could change this to Tumbleweed to avoid confusion?
Regards, Johannes - -- Programming is like sex: if you make a mistake, you have to support it for the rest of your life. (unknown)
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Johannes Kastl -
Olaf Hering -
Patrick Shanahan -
Stefan Seyfried