[opensuse-factory] BTRFS and Tumbleweed: Is it really stable to be considered default?
Hi guys, I think some of you are following my problem about BTRFS and the "No space left on device" even if I have 1 TiB of unallocated space. If not, I will give a short version: on a daily basis in a production machine with Tumbleweed, I have a problem saying that I do not have free space. Sometimes `btrfs balance` solves it, sometimes only a hard reset works. Today, I experienced a very serious situation. The problem occurred during a `zypper dup` (+4600 packages being installed). When it happened before, I was left with a totally **broken** system. Since I could not spend time to fix it today, I needed to **delete** 7 GiB of data to be able to use the system again. Notice that I have more than 1 TiB of unallocated space. More details in [1]. This problem was reported for upstream and openSUSE more than 1 month ago [2]. I still did not receive any idea of what is happening. Also, I was not able to find any possible workaround for this issue. Hence, I am really thinking in format this machine to install (**again**) Tumbleweed in EXT4 or XFS. Finally, I want to start a discussion to try answer the question if BTRFS is really stable in Tumbleweed. I saw this problem in kernels 4.6 and 4.7. This is serious, I cannot say how much time or work I lost due to it. So, isn't it better to change the default file system or print a warning at the installation for Tumbleweed until all those problems have been fixed? ----------- [1] http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-btrfs/msg58828.html [2] http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-btrfs/msg57925.html Best regards, Ronan Arraes -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2016-09-14 22:42, Ronan Arraes Jardim Chagas wrote:
Finally, I want to start a discussion to try answer the question if BTRFS is really stable in Tumbleweed. I saw this problem in kernels 4.6 and 4.7. This is serious, I cannot say how much time or work I lost due to it. So, isn't it better to change the default file system or print a warning at the installation for Tumbleweed until all those problems have been fixed?
I can only give you my very personal opinion: I would simply not use Tumbleweed in production. Just saying :-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlfZ53AACgkQja8UbcUWM1zIiwD9GycmpNwV5CxALkI+TuHkJUj6 p+z8nCuchSD9295PjXoA/RVaNo+MYODYJyYyn2f7KacXPw3KFnuySG+ZNCH7TIjV =Q122 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
* Carlos E. R.
On 2016-09-14 22:42, Ronan Arraes Jardim Chagas wrote:
Finally, I want to start a discussion to try answer the question if BTRFS is really stable in Tumbleweed. I saw this problem in kernels 4.6 and 4.7. This is serious, I cannot say how much time or work I lost due to it. So, isn't it better to change the default file system or print a warning at the installation for Tumbleweed until all those problems have been fixed?
I can only give you my very personal opinion: I would simply not use Tumbleweed in production.
Just saying :-)
And I have been since the beginning of Tw, Just saying :) -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Il giorno Thu, 15 Sep 2016 02:12:32 +0200
"Carlos E. R."
I can only give you my very personal opinion: I would simply not use Tumbleweed in production.
Even if just for the feel of bringing down an unwarranted myth, I'll state my counter opinion: I *am* using TW in production (3 systems at the moment). Regarding BTRFS, to keep myself in topic, I haven't even had issues with it at the moment. 2 out of the 3 machines use it (one doesn't because the original install is from 2011, and I'm too lazy to reinstall it ;) without any noticeable issue. -- Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team GPG key ID: A29D259B
Hi Luca, Em qui, 2016-09-15 às 07:11 +0200, Luca Beltrame escreveu:
Even if just for the feel of bringing down an unwarranted myth, I'll state my counter opinion: I *am* using TW in production (3 systems at the moment).
Regarding BTRFS, to keep myself in topic, I haven't even had issues with it at the moment. 2 out of the 3 machines use it (one doesn't because the original install is from 2011, and I'm too lazy to reinstall it ;) without any noticeable issue.
Yeah, I think this is a combination of something that happens in my workstation. Can you please answer me if your machines have HDD or SSD? Best regards, Ronan Arraes -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Il giorno Thu, 15 Sep 2016 11:05:08 -0300
Ronan Arraes Jardim Chagas
Yeah, I think this is a combination of something that happens in my workstation. Can you please answer me if your machines have HDD or SSD?
All of these have rotational media, but my laptop, which runs on TW + BTRFS too without hiccups, has a 250G SSD.
Em qui, 2016-09-15 às 16:08 +0200, Luca Beltrame escreveu:
Il giorno Thu, 15 Sep 2016 11:05:08 -0300 All of these have rotational media, but my laptop, which runs on TW + BTRFS too without hiccups, has a 250G SSD.
Ok thanks! I saw the problem only in machines that have HDD. I remember in my laptop I saw this only once sometime ago (beginning of the year I think), but I changed to SSD just after this and nothing happened anymore. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/14/2016 08:12 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
On 2016-09-14 22:42, Ronan Arraes Jardim Chagas wrote:
Finally, I want to start a discussion to try answer the question if BTRFS is really stable in Tumbleweed. I saw this problem in kernels 4.6 and 4.7. This is serious, I cannot say how much time or work I lost due to it. So, isn't it better to change the default file system or print a warning at the installation for Tumbleweed until all those problems have been fixed?
I can only give you my very personal opinion: I would simply not use Tumbleweed in production.
Just saying :-)
- -- Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
I agree with Carlos, you never use an experimental OS in a production environment, you're just asking for problems. IMNSHO You really should be using SLES for production machines, that's what it is geared towards. -- Ken linux since 1994 S.u.S.E./openSUSE since 1996 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, 2016-09-15 at 09:48 -0400, Ken Schneider wrote:
I agree with Carlos, you never use an experimental OS in a production environment, you're just asking for problems. IMNSHO You really should be using SLES for production machines, that's what it is geared towards.
Different people have different definitions of 'production machine' - Mind, for some their 'primary workstation', 'home server' or 'private website' is their production machine - Tumbleweed can serve those uses very well and keep them up-to-date. If the machine happens to have a downtime of 2 days (just a bad assumption), there is no real damage done An enterprise relying on the technology though is less likely to find their fun in Tumbleweed and any rolling release for the matter - they are more likely to care for stability and the support offerings around SLE - version numbers do not care. Without further knowing what your peer talks about when he mentions 'production machine' - you cannot do an assessment of the risk factors that implies for him. Not even a bad consultant would do that without asking back... Cheers, Dominique
Hi Dominique, Em qui, 2016-09-15 às 15:56 +0200, Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar escreveu:
Different people have different definitions of 'production machine' - Mind, for some their 'primary workstation', 'home server' or 'private website' is their production machine - Tumbleweed can serve those uses very well and keep them up-to-date. If the machine happens to have a downtime of 2 days (just a bad assumption), there is no real damage done
An enterprise relying on the technology though is less likely to find their fun in Tumbleweed and any rolling release for the matter - they are more likely to care for stability and the support offerings around SLE - version numbers do not care.
Without further knowing what your peer talks about when he mentions 'production machine' - you cannot do an assessment of the risk factors that implies for him. Not even a bad consultant would do that without asking back...
You are 100% right. My definition of production machine is the workstation that I used daily to do my job :) It is not ON 24/7. The problem is that this BTRFS bug is making me loss work, since when this happens I cannot even save a file. I have already move everything I work with to the EXT4 partition to avoid such problem. Also, it is kind annoying have to reboot the machine randomly 3 of 4 times everyday. By the Murphy's law, it always happens in the worst cases, for example, when I am showing some results to someone :D Best regards, Ronan Arraes -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
participants (6)
-
Carlos E. R. -
Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar -
Ken Schneider -
Luca Beltrame -
Patrick Shanahan -
Ronan Arraes Jardim Chagas