On 06/19/2012 03:59 PM, Guido Berhoerster wrote:

On 19.06.2012 22:29, Larry Finger wrote:

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If someone is working on the specs for a lighter-weight LXDE CD, or some other desktop, please let me know. If not, I will try to put together a spec file that will result in a Live system that fits on a 700 MB blank with LibreOffice included.

I was planning to do a Xfce LiveCD containing the Xfde default install (consisting of the XFCE-BASIS, XFCE, XFCE-LAPTOP, and XFCE-Office patterns) and have built live images using stock kiwi. So far I haven't had time to figure out how openSUSE:Factory:Live works and have some higher priority issues in Xfce that need to be taken care of before getting back to this. Let me know if you're interested in this, I'd certainly help to maintain it later.

I only mentioned LXDE because I use it on a couple low-powered machines; however, XFCE will be just as good. I will try to setup the configuration files under Factory:Live and then have those available for uploading. Larry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2012-06-20 01:05, Larry Finger wrote:

On 06/19/2012 05:50 PM, Juan Erbes wrote:

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The KDE Live CD, has a tool to setup or repair the grub installation?

As it can do the initial installation, it should be able to handle repairs.

I have used previous versions to fix grub-legacy problems, thus I know how to do it. As to grub2 repairs, I'm sure that the instructions are available somewhere.

In the forums there are some popular tools for repairs developed by people there that would be interesting to include: lspart, updategrub... - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk/hLp4ACgkQIvFNjefEBxr6KwCgibgoRiYLH4WKfwAYq7Kw93vE BdEAnRyV2ndxCjR0LvnW3hp1K2CV76ly =OfEv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

2012/6/20 Stephan Kulow :

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This contribution is not discussing the relative merits of various distributions. It is only reporting on the current state of the Live CDs.

At about 16:00 UTC on June 19, I did an 'osc update' of the Live CD project and used 'osc build' commands to build the resulting Gnome and KDE 64-bit Live CD images.

Both images built without error, and both booted with qemu-kvm. As discussed earlier, neither image will fit on a standard 80 minute/700 MB CD. The KDE version is 738 MiB and the Gnome one is 742 MiB, thus they could be burned to a 90 minute/800 MB blank as long as the user has suitable blanks and burning program. Note that you build the unprofiled CD, which is much larger - the

On 19.06.2012 22:29, Larry Finger wrote: profiled ones are below 700MB now.

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The Gnome CD boots without problems using the standard 512 MB RAM available with qemu-kvm (no swap space). With no swap space available, the KDE version needs roughly 784 MB (712 MB is not enough).

The KDE one is *really* really bad as KDE creates tons of data in the filesystem - which is in RAM. This is most likely due to the great akonadi

Akonadi...This crap is really needed??? I could not uninstall it completely, because it is linked to about half kde. In my system, after installing opensuse 12.2 beta1, the cpu runned at maximal speed, (4 cores) 3.2 GHz. If I do "ps -aux" in konsole, I got about 3 screen of akonadi processes, and about 140 wats of power consumption. After moving to other directory the files /usr/bin/akonadi*, and restarting the system, the cpu runs at 800 MHz, and the power consumption, is about 110 wats (with lcd monitor and the adsl modem), measured by the APC UPS. Regards, Juan -- USA LINUX OPENSUSE QUE ES SOFTWARE LIBRE, NO NECESITAS PIRATEAR NADA Y NI TE VAS A PREOCUPAR MAS POR LOS VIRUS Y SPYWARES: http://www.opensuse.org/es/ Puedes visitar mi blog en: http://jerbes.blogspot.com.ar/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 20.06.2012 16:11, Martin Schlander wrote:

Onsdag den 20. juni 2012 10:04:25 Stephan Kulow skrev:

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The KDE one is *really* really bad as KDE creates tons of data in the filesystem - which is in RAM. This is most likely due to the great akonadi

I thought Will had done some magic so that akonadi doesn't start by default on the live system at least - only on installed systems. I'm afraid you mix akonadi with nepomuk.

So if it's running out of the box in a live session I guess that's worth a bug report.

Of course the default KDE workspace should be configured so as to not start akonadi in an empty default session - live or installed - but that's a different matter ;-)

The german FAQ on akonadi says akonadi is started on demand even if disabled - and the demand comes from the panel clock. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

2012/6/20 Martin Schlander :

Onsdag den 20. juni 2012 16:47:16 Stephan Kulow skrev:

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On 20.06.2012 16:11, Martin Schlander wrote:

...

Onsdag den 20. juni 2012 10:04:25 Stephan Kulow skrev:

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The KDE one is *really* really bad as KDE creates tons of data in the filesystem - which is in RAM. This is most likely due to the great akonadi> I thought Will had done some magic so that akonadi doesn't start by default on the live system at least - only on installed systems.

I'm afraid you mix akonadi with nepomuk.

...

So if it's running out of the box in a live session I guess that's worth a bug report.

Of course the default KDE workspace should be configured so as to not start akonadi in an empty default session - live or installed - but that's a different matter ;-)

The german FAQ on akonadi says akonadi is started on demand even if disabled - and the demand comes from the panel clock.

Yeah. The panel clock option to display KOrganizer events  and a couple of krunners ('contacts' and 'calendar events') cause the default workspace to start Akonadi, that's why those items should be disabled in our default KDE workspace configuration :-)

Would save a whole bunch of megs of ram and a few secs of KDE startup time for most users in my not very scientific opinion - and also spare people of the "flickering" caused by the various "akonadi migrators" running on the first run of akonadi.

But of course the people who actually need/want korganizer events in the panel clock tooltip would need to figure out how to turn it back on, but I still think it's worth it. --

Now, when I have resolved the akonadi issues, moving the executables, yet I found other similar crap, and it comes from gnome, and is the tracker-extract which uses a lot of cpu and memory, with about 10 proceses. I do'nt know if it was installed as a dependency of zeitgeist. I prefer the old style of the findutils-locate, which is accesible via console. Regards, Juan -- USA LINUX OPENSUSE QUE ES SOFTWARE LIBRE, NO NECESITAS PIRATEAR NADA Y NI TE VAS A PREOCUPAR MAS POR LOS VIRUS Y SPYWARES: http://www.opensuse.org/es/ Puedes visitar mi blog en: http://jerbes.blogspot.com.ar/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 06/21/2012 04:58 AM, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:

On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 7:13 PM, Juan Erbes wrote:

...

Now, when I have resolved the akonadi issues, moving the executables, yet I found other similar crap, and it comes from gnome, and is the tracker-extract which uses a lot of cpu and memory, with about 10 proceses. I do'nt know if it was installed as a dependency of zeitgeist.

I prefer the old style of the findutils-locate, which is accesible via console.

Regards, Juan

I'm not sure of the exact connections between "zeitgeist" and "tracker" just yet, but you're right - like Akonaid / Strigi / Nepomuk, it's indexing certain parts of your filesystem the first time it comes up for something called a "semantic desktop". It should be suppressable for a LiveCD via standard GNOME configuration tools, though. It should come up on an *installed* system and index the first time the system boots.

sorry, but i think Akonaid and etc should launch on live systems both when and *if* the user wants such enough to click the buttons necessary to set it up to launch.. as it is, the new-to-linux crowd have no idea how to reclaim the snappiness they had with Windows (yep)! [survey the forums and note the multitude of questions like "What is eating my CPU?"] of course, i just disable/uninstall the offenders and install findutils-locate. anyway (imo) at very least a default cron should launch such speed-sinks some time (30 minutes?) after system startup, and it should be launched with nice, so that it actually is. ymmv dd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Quoting DenverD :

On 06/21/2012 04:58 AM, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:

anyway (imo) at very least a default cron should launch such speed-sinks some time (30 minutes?) after system startup, and it should be launched with nice, so that it actually is.

Last time I checked, the tracker-extractor IS running with nice 19! That does not mean it can't boost the CPU to 100% though (which it does usually for a rather short time). I haven't seen issues with tracker 'taking away' snappiness of the system in a long time.. geeks looking at a CPU spike don't mind it, if they understand it... Most of the time, though, the users 'noting' the 100% CPU spike are not aware of niceness of the tasks (it does exist on Windows.. but honestly: anybody ever used it more than 'what does this do'?). So instead of advising them to uninstall the 'offender', it might be smarter (although more time consuming) to explain the situation. Dominique -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Le jeudi 21 juin 2012 à 09:28 +0200, Marcus Meissner a écrit :

On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 03:08:32AM -0400, Dominique Leuenberger a.k.a DimStar wrote:

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Quoting DenverD :

...

On 06/21/2012 04:58 AM, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:

anyway (imo) at very least a default cron should launch such speed-sinks some time (30 minutes?) after system startup, and it should be launched with nice, so that it actually is.

Last time I checked, the tracker-extractor IS running with nice 19! That does not mean it can't boost the CPU to 100% though (which it does usually for a rather short time).

I haven't seen issues with tracker 'taking away' snappiness of the system in a long time.. geeks looking at a CPU spike don't mind it, if they understand it...

Most of the time, though, the users 'noting' the 100% CPU spike are not aware of niceness of the tasks (it does exist on Windows.. but honestly: anybody ever used it more than 'what does this do'?). So instead of advising them to uninstall the 'offender', it might be smarter (although more time consuming) to explain the situation.

I actually kill and wipe tracker from my installation as soon as I get slowdowns.

Even nice 19 will not help with IO bandwith drain experience shows.

well, tracker is also setting "idle" for io priority, so it shouldn't drain IO for other processes. -- Frederic Crozat SUSE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 6/20/2012 10:58 PM, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:

On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 7:13 PM, Juan Erbes wrote:

...

Now, when I have resolved the akonadi issues, moving the executables, yet I found other similar crap, and it comes from gnome, and is the tracker-extract which uses a lot of cpu and memory, with about 10 proceses. I do'nt know if it was installed as a dependency of zeitgeist.

I prefer the old style of the findutils-locate, which is accesible via console.

Regards, Juan

I'm not sure of the exact connections between "zeitgeist" and "tracker" just yet, but you're right - like Akonaid / Strigi / Nepomuk, it's indexing certain parts of your filesystem the first time it comes up for something called a "semantic desktop". It should be suppressable for a LiveCD via standard GNOME configuration tools, though. It should come up on an *installed* system and index the first time the system boots.

On an installed 12.1 / GNOME3 desktop, type "tracket-preferences" to get a GUI to adjust the settings. I don't know how to adjust the settings in configuration files but I know there's a way.

Or, and don't kill me for playing devils advocate just trying to be fair and complete, another option is, IF it is decided that the semantic desktop feature is a valuable thing, then maybe it can be pre-indexed and canned, so the livecd is already fully indexed when it first comes up. -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 6/21/2012 2:45 PM, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:

On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 11:24 AM, Brian K. White wrote:

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On 6/20/2012 10:58 PM, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:

...

On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 7:13 PM, Juan Erbes wrote:

...

Now, when I have resolved the akonadi issues, moving the executables, yet I found other similar crap, and it comes from gnome, and is the tracker-extract which uses a lot of cpu and memory, with about 10 proceses. I do'nt know if it was installed as a dependency of zeitgeist.

I prefer the old style of the findutils-locate, which is accesible via console.

Regards, Juan

I'm not sure of the exact connections between "zeitgeist" and "tracker" just yet, but you're right - like Akonaid / Strigi / Nepomuk, it's indexing certain parts of your filesystem the first time it comes up for something called a "semantic desktop". It should be suppressable for a LiveCD via standard GNOME configuration tools, though. It should come up on an *installed* system and index the first time the system boots.

On an installed 12.1 / GNOME3 desktop, type "tracket-preferences" to get a GUI to adjust the settings. I don't know how to adjust the settings in configuration files but I know there's a way.

Or, and don't kill me for playing devils advocate just trying to be fair and complete, another option is, IF it is decided that the semantic desktop feature is a valuable thing, then maybe it can be pre-indexed and canned, so the livecd is already fully indexed when it first comes up.

Semantic desktop is definitely a good thing - just ask the folks who build it. ;-) But seriously, there doesn't seem to be a hard business case for it in the real world - Windows and Macintosh. The indexing / search capabilites built in there do an acceptable job and something "better" like Zeitgeist or Nepomuk is a dream. Of course, you can say the same for the Linux desktop as a whole when you look at the numbers. ;-)

Personally I do disable desktop/home/MyDocument indexing everywhere, windows, linux, etc. In my case it's just a bad trade-off. My machines are slower 100% of the time at 100% of their tasks, just so that .01% of operations .01% of the time can be maybe 50% faster. If I had larger libraries of random documents and they were'nt already indexed by virtue of being contained in some db driven application, just a huge mass of utterly disorganized files, *maybe* then indexing my desktop makes sense. I'd probably have to live to be 400 years old before it becomes that much of a problem. But that's somewhere between merely my personal preference and at best a different conversation about the virtue of indexers at all, where in this case I was only speaking within the scope of "We have some indexers, how to make them behave best?" -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 6/21/2012 2:24 PM, Brian K. White wrote:

Or, and don't kill me for playing devils advocate just trying to be fair and complete, another option is, IF it is decided that the semantic desktop feature is a valuable thing, then maybe it can be pre-indexed and canned, so the livecd is already fully indexed when it first comes up.

I've since read the later posts that it's probably not indexing anything that actually came with the livcd but is indexing the various other drives it discovers plugged in to the system. If that is in fact the case, then as someone else said it should be pretty straightforward to tweak the shipped settings not to autoscan & index discovered drives. Especially it shouldn't be doing any such thing before any user has even logged in and started a session. There is also ionice in addition to regular nice. Is it being used? An ioniced process will still cause some performance hit even if it's i/o is lower priority, just by virtue of flushing the cache let alone the physical disk contention, but it is something and possibly even more apropos than nice. Perhaps the indexer(s) can also be taught to display an activity indicator bubble on the desktop too. "Your cpu is at 100% because we are busy building you a really cool and powerful index of all your stuff as fast as this machine can go, look we're 23% done already... and look, notice everything is still magically working fast even though all this hard work is going on in the background. Dang Linux is powerful stuff, and you, lucky user, now _wield_ that power. Welcome to openSUSE Linux. Do not operate while intoxicated." Maybe something briefer. ;) -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Thursday 21 Jun 2012 14:54:45 Brian K. White wrote:

On 6/21/2012 2:24 PM, Brian K. White wrote:

...

Or, and don't kill me for playing devils advocate just trying to be fair and complete, another option is, IF it is decided that the semantic desktop feature is a valuable thing, then maybe it can be pre-indexed and canned, so the livecd is already fully indexed when it first comes up.

I've since read the later posts that it's probably not indexing anything that actually came with the livcd but is indexing the various other drives it discovers plugged in to the system.

Not the case - it is configured to only index the xdg-user-dirs - ~/Documents/, ~/Music, etc. And it is disabled on the livecd.

There is also ionice in addition to regular nice. Is it being used?

It is being used.

Perhaps the indexer(s) can also be taught to display an activity indicator bubble on the desktop too.

"Your cpu is at 100% because we are busy building you a really cool and powerful index of all your stuff as fast as this machine can go, look we're 23% done already... and look, notice everything is still magically working fast even though all this hard work is going on in the background. Dang Linux is powerful stuff, and you, lucky user, now _wield_ that power. Welcome to openSUSE Linux. Do not operate while intoxicated."

Maybe something briefer. ;)

THere are some notifications, but I guess these could be improved. Although I don't know how to fix people who want all their CPU and RAM idle/unused rather than doing something that is useful to them. Will -- Will Stephenson, openSUSE Board, Booster, KDE Developer SUSE LINUX GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstraße 5 90409 Nürnberg Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

2012/6/21 Karl Eichwalder :

Juan Erbes writes:

...

I prefer the old style of the findutils-locate, which is accesible via console.

That's something different.  locate does not know anything about the contents of your files.

Do you actually use Gnome (and then, does the tacker hurt you?).  Or do you simply do a test installation?

I use KDE (opensuse 12.2 beta1 updated to factory). Yesterday I tested the KDE Live CD build 451, and it works fine, but very slowly. Other Live linux like Knoppix on DVD, are many times faster. The last days I'm dealing with a bug of the dsl configuration, and with the Live CD, I found it works better than opensuse 12.2 beta1 updated to factory, because at least, before leaving the yast dsl configuration screen it shows the dsl configured device, and the other instalation shows nothing. Regards, Juan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 20 Jun 2012 16:47:16 Stephan Kulow wrote:

On 20.06.2012 16:11, Martin Schlander wrote:

...

Onsdag den 20. juni 2012 10:04:25 Stephan Kulow skrev:

...

The KDE one is *really* really bad as KDE creates tons of data in the filesystem - which is in RAM. This is most likely due to the great akonadi

I thought Will had done some magic so that akonadi doesn't start by default on the live system at least - only on installed systems.

I'm afraid you mix akonadi with nepomuk.

Nope, I previously disabled everything that starts Akonadi on demand in the live CD config. If it is starting again, something new started to demand it. Time for some Live CD maintainence to go on my todo list. Nepomuk does not start on-demand, so it is configured off by default (and anyone using it on a Live CD is welcome to enable it, if they have enough RAM).

The german FAQ on akonadi says akonadi is started on demand even if disabled - and the demand comes from the panel clock.

This should already be disabled, as Martin points out. I'll look and see why. Will -- Will Stephenson, openSUSE Board, Booster, KDE Developer SUSE LINUX GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstraße 5 90409 Nürnberg Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org