Hi, On Monday 27 April 2009, Daniel Fuhrmann wrote:

There are many complains about beagle.

Does anybody use this dog?

My first step with a new system is to deinstall beagle. It looks like you're not alone. Have a look at https://features.opensuse.org/305296 This is the highest rated feature for 11.2 and we agreed that Beagle is disabled by default.

Best M -- Michael Löffler, Product Management SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Mon, 2009-04-27 at 08:55 +0200, Daniel Fuhrmann wrote:

There are many complains about beagle.

Does anybody use this dog?

My first step with a new system is to deinstall beagle.

Breaking News: just because *you* don't use an integral part of the system, doesn't mean others don't. I and many others (as seen on the tens of other threads about this) do use it and don't have the issues others seem to. And instead of filing bugs and trying to get them fixed, all that seems to happen is they want to rip desktop search right out of openSUSE. And, really, try to find a mass-market OS that doesn't have a good desktop search client built in (tip: you won't). -- Kevin "Yeaux" Dupuy openSUSE Member www.twitter.com/KevinDupuy -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Am Dienstag, 28. April 2009 00:16:24 schrieb Kevin "Yeaux" Dupuy:

On Mon, 2009-04-27 at 08:55 +0200, Daniel Fuhrmann wrote:

...

There are many complains about beagle.

Does anybody use this dog?

My first step with a new system is to deinstall beagle.

Breaking News: just because *you* don't use an integral part of the system, doesn't mean others don't. I and many others (as seen on the tens of other threads about this) do use it and don't have the issues others seem to.

My intention was only to find out if it is often used or not. If a program is working for you, you wont complain about it, so I can't guess how many users are running it. Other breaking news: It is fact, that beagle brakes performance on older systems. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Beagle can definitely suck the live out of a system, however, gnome-do is really cool and if beagle is needed for the launcher then I will live with the performance hit while beagle does it's indexing. I never use desktop search, thus most of what beagle does is plain useless overhead for me. But gnome-do is the app launcher of choice. Daniel Fuhrmann wrote:

Am Dienstag, 28. April 2009 00:16:24 schrieb Kevin "Yeaux" Dupuy:

...

On Mon, 2009-04-27 at 08:55 +0200, Daniel Fuhrmann wrote:

...

There are many complains about beagle.

Does anybody use this dog?

My first step with a new system is to deinstall beagle.

Breaking News: just because *you* don't use an integral part of the system, doesn't mean others don't. I and many others (as seen on the tens of other threads about this) do use it and don't have the issues others seem to.

My intention was only to find out if it is often used or not.

If a program is working for you, you wont complain about it, so I can't guess how many users are running it.

Other breaking news:

It is fact, that beagle brakes performance on older systems.

-- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Software Engineer Consultant LINUX rschweikert@novell.com 781-464-8147 Novell Making IT Work As One -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 8:19 PM, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:

1. I have not seen any data comparing Beagle with other search options. Most of them are variants of Lucene. 2. I de-install it even on my 4 GB dual-core Athlon/Turion 64 systems. It renders my 512 MB Athlon XP unusable. 3. If Beagle is an integral part of Gnome, perhaps the correct approach is for someone to profile Beagle and find out where the bottlenecks are. And if it's doing something stupid, do something smarter. But as it stands now, I can't think of a use case that would justify installing it given its present behavior.

Well ... from http://beagle-project.org/Development Beagle is written in C# using Mono. The indexing is handled by Lucene.Net, a C# port of the Lucene indexer. The search user interface is written using Gtk#. Anybody here know how to profile a C# app using Mono? -- M. Edward (Ed) Borasky http://www.linkedin.com/in/edborasky I've never met a happy clam. In fact, most of them were pretty steamed. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Maybe it's not a big deal, but I would think a normal user will just feel the interface is broken if you can search and it doesn't work by default.

Note: I don't use beagle and I personally have no strong opinion on whether it should be enabled or disabled by default, except from a user interface point of view. It's actually hard to find someone that does - and that's the point behind the default: off. For every user saying he uses beagle you find 8[1] users saying

On Tuesday 28 April 2009 01:35:17 Vincent Untz wrote: they turn it off as first step.

Note 2: btw, another solution could be to replace beagle with something else. Did people investigate how the other players in this field compare to beagle? Are people opposed to beagle specifically or to the fact that an indexer has an impact on performances?

The problem is: if only a minority is using desktop search, why would we enable it by default? Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Le lundi 27 avril 2009, à 20:19 -0700, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky a écrit :

On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 4:35 PM, Vincent Untz wrote:

...

Note 2: btw, another solution could be to replace beagle with something else. Did people investigate how the other players in this field compare to beagle? Are people opposed to beagle specifically or to the fact that an indexer has an impact on performances?

1. I have not seen any data comparing Beagle with other search options. Most of them are variants of Lucene.

The facts that they are variants of Lucene doesn't help compare ;-)

2. I de-install it even on my 4 GB dual-core Athlon/Turion 64 systems. It renders my 512 MB Athlon XP unusable. 3. If Beagle is an integral part of Gnome, perhaps the correct approach is for someone to profile Beagle and find out where the bottlenecks are. And if it's doing something stupid, do something smarter. But as it stands now, I can't think of a use case that would justify installing it given its present behavior.

It's not an integral part of GNOME since upstream doesn't come with something like beagle/tracker/etc. by default (although the code to use them is there). However, the upstream experience for searching is, hrm, not really great. That's why beagle is installed by default in the first place: because it's supposed to help polish the user experience. (of course, it appears that it's failing there for a good bunch of users because of impact on performances) And yes, one useful thing to do would be to have people profile beagle and see what's wrong. Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Am Dienstag, 28. April 2009 schrieb Vincent Untz:

Le mardi 28 avril 2009, à 08:49 +0200, Stephan Kulow a écrit :

...

On Tuesday 28 April 2009 01:35:17 Vincent Untz wrote:

...

Maybe it's not a big deal, but I would think a normal user will just feel the interface is broken if you can search and it doesn't work by default.

Note: I don't use beagle and I personally have no strong opinion on whether it should be enabled or disabled by default, except from a user interface point of view.

It's actually hard to find someone that does - and that's the point behind the default: off. For every user saying he uses beagle you find 8[1] users saying they turn it off as first step.

Missing footnote? :-) As previously said on this thread, we hear people who are unhappy about beagle, but we don't hear people who are happy about it. [...]

I gave my rather old desktop PCs (2 or 3) to my parents and installed and/or updated to the recent openSUSE version since "ever" (7.0--11.1). I never disabled beagle and there never were complaints about unusable desktops or such things! Personally, I disabled beagle only because I wanted to reduce power consumption as much as possible on my laptop, even while being on AC. Gruß Jan -- We cannot imagine how our lives could be more frustrating or complex, but congress can... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 28 April 2009 04:22:41 am Vincent Untz wrote:

As previously said on this thread, we hear people who are unhappy about beagle, but we don't hear people who are happy about it.

We hear only those that want to use openSUSE and at some point took time to investigate what makes computer slower. Those that just install, try and drop, or use, depends on impression, we would not hear and that is for sure the largest group. For me Beagle is just annoyance, never big, but when I add aggressive KMail downloader, number of times when computer doesn't read keyboard, or have jumpy response is getting my attention, and of course I'll remove all that I can to live without. Desktop search is nothing different then any other program. Beagle history of annoying bugs (100% CPU usage, aggressive data collection, breaking reiserfs in a spectacular way [1], leaving large number of temp files) doesn't make it a good candidate for default openSUSE - first impression. I can't remember any other single program that is not "must have" with such history. [1] reiserfs breakage was reiserfs bug, but in years no other program made similar thing. The bad about that problem is that no one in a beagle development team noticed it, which is raising question about their ability to catch serious problems before release hits the street. Letting out problems that affect many openSUSE users doesn't make beagle suitable for openSUSE, specially not as default option. -- Regards, Rajko http://news.opensuse.org/category/people-of-opensuse/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

The problem with Beagle is that KDE4 has it's own based on stringi and nepomuk. Therefore, if beagle is so important to gnone, then make it default for the gnome pattern. What is the point in having beagle for KDE4? Further, what is the point of a desktop search. As a paid computer technician, I have related that over 95% of the computers I service with Win on them have a desktop search that is NEVER used and the customer has no idea WHY it was installed nor HOW it came to be installed. Therefore, this type of program has been classified by me to be a huge waste of processor resources, and is one of the first items I ask about and the removal of can make a huge performance boost to a slow system. Desktop Search was made popular by Google Desktop, so then everyone had to have one. You can't install programs like Nero or others on Windows without their own search capabilites that never get used. Unfortunately, Linux is becoming the same way. Personally, I dislike Beagle. I also dislike Mono and see no point in any of the Mono programs. I don't use Silverlight/Moonlight, and see little point in it since Flash has unfortunately cornered the market and it's a program that's in dire need of optimization anyway. Unfortuantelty, since Novell bought Ximian, they forced alot of that stuff on us. Like many other things that have been introduced into openSUSE like KDE4, libzypp(forced into 10.2Beta3 - in a beta. Try to ask to get something else like that into a Beta and you'll get looks like you're stupid, but that's what happened), Beagle wasn't ready. Now, some of these have become very worthwhile like zypper, and many are saying KDE4 is ready for prime time. This is one of the biggest discouragements to me in regards to openSUSE. SuSE was always called a STABLE distro. But, the quest to add new things has moved it away from stability. Way too many bugs that have been reported have been left languishing in the quest to add in new stuff. If I was a programmer, I would do what I could to fix stuff. As it is, I have pretty much given up on filing bug reports. I have had some success on the PPC side, but I've seen too much politicing on the x86 side. Just my opinion. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2009-05-10 at 11:00 +0200, Tamas Sarga wrote:

I also use beagle. It is hard to tell, how much people uses beagle, because if someone has problems, then much people catch up the thread to tell, that it is slow for them too, but no one replies, that hi, it's good for me.

We are simply less vociferous. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkoGxVoACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VvswCgjUZ2Z0u3RhlK0Pv+SR2mzhMC vKYAnifOLd+G5Qhzq4lfsiwO2tf9JqV5 =l9/T -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Tamas Sarga wrote:

Daniel Fuhrmann wrote:

...

Am Dienstag, 28. April 2009 00:16:24 schrieb Kevin "Yeaux" Dupuy:

...

On Mon, 2009-04-27 at 08:55 +0200, Daniel Fuhrmann wrote:

...

There are many complains about beagle.

Does anybody use this dog?

My first step with a new system is to deinstall beagle. Breaking News: just because *you* don't use an integral part of the system, doesn't mean others don't. I and many others (as seen on the tens of other threads about this) do use it and don't have the issues others seem to. My intention was only to find out if it is often used or not.

...

If a program is working for you, you wont complain about it, so I can't guess how many users are running it.

...

Other breaking news:

...

It is fact, that beagle brakes performance on older systems.

Hi,

I also use beagle. It is hard to tell, how much people uses beagle, because if someone has problems, then much people catch up the thread to tell, that it is slow for them too, but no one replies, that hi, it's good for me. I don't mind if beagle becomes disabled by default, just please take a note to the release notes with a link to a doc what describes, how could be enabled as easy as possible.

Cheers, Tamas

I am not a user as stated previously in the thread, also as promised I checked my relative's box last night as he had been complaining of it being very much slower - sure enough, beagled was the culprit, used kill -9 and zypper rm, box (XP3000+/4G memory) is now responsive and he is happy again. I have no problems with it being disabled by default and available to those who find it useful. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support Specialist, Cricket Coach Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

jdd writes:

bea&gle is a nuisance even in dualcore computer

On my workstation it is fine. On my second computer at work it is problematic (and I have had to disable it), but I'm said a patch is now available.

...

Note 2: btw, another solution could be to replace beagle with something else. Did people investigate how the other players in this field compare to beagle? Are people opposed to beagle specifically or to the fact that an indexer has an impact on performances?

updatedb and locate did a very good job and I used it twice a year, si it's enough.

Honestly, updatedb is rather resource hungry (but fast), and locate is very different from beagle. locate only indexes file names--beagle also searches through file contents. Yes, I use the desktop search from time to time. -- Karl Eichwalder R&D / Documentation SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org