New TW install missing $HOME/bin and PATH entry, it was there in TW install from July?
All, Continuing setup of a new TW install, and I get to the point where I build and put my personal utilities and put the resulting executable in $HOME/bin, but I find there is no $HOME/bin. I check PATH and there is no entry for it either. In my earlier TW install from July, I have: /home/david/.local/bin:/home/david/bin:/usr/local/bin:... The only path manipulation I do in .bashrc is: test `expr "$PATH" : ".*gcc-arm-none-eabi*.*"` -eq '0' && export PATH="${PATH}:/opt/gcc-arm-none-eabi/bin" In the new TW, the PATH is: /home/david/.local/bin:/usr/local/bin:... Was there a change removing $HOME/bin from TW or have I just not installed whatever provides it? -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
On Mon, Mar 3, 2025 at 9:03 AM David C. Rankin <drankinatty@gmail.com> wrote:
Was there a change removing $HOME/bin from TW or have I just not installed whatever provides it?
Yes, some people think that ~/bin pollutes the users home directory (but all the crappy, useless directories created by Desktops not) and removed it from the skel directory. Easy fix: - mkdir ~/bin - logout/login And everything should be as before. Thorsten -- Thorsten Kukuk, Distinguished Engineer, Senior Architect, Future Technologies SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH, Frankenstraße 146, 90461 Nuernberg, Germany Managing Director: Ivo Totev, Andrew McDonald, Werner Knoblich (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg)
On Mon, 3 Mar 2025 at 10:26, Thorsten Kukuk via openSUSE Factory < factory@lists.opensuse.org> wrote:
My prod tumbleweed hosts + VMs are happy about the change (small as it is) + no Desktop stuff polluting various developer homedirs there. Makes the ugly shit their beloved vscode drops, stand out better :-) Patrick
On 3/3/25 3:31 AM, Patrick Schaaf via openSUSE Factory wrote:
For what it is worth, using SuSE/openSUSE for 20+ years I always considered ~/bin a welcomed "feature" and not pollution in any way. I'd much rather have that functionality that Documents, Downloads, Pictures, Media, Videos, etc... I'll create and re-add and re-add to skel. This is another one to file under "If it ain't broke, DON'T FIX IT!" -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
Think about it from user experience perspective. If you ask to a non technical user what a directory named Documents mean, they will not have problem to explain. Then try to ask what a directory named bin in their user home mean. I agree that some default desktop directories are annoying. Does anyone use the Template directory? Em 06/03/2025 02:23, David C. Rankin escreveu:
On Thu, Mar 06, 2025 at 11:38:47PM -0300, Heitor Moreira wrote:
bin is what some elsewhere call Trash. I once fished some discardable files and (what they called) "folders" from a charming new Linux desktop user's ~/bin :-) I can see the benefit in simplication and the annoyance from ingrained filesystem naming shorthand/layout from the 1970's. At least more experienced users have tab-completion along paths in our shells ;-) Daniel
Am Freitag, 7. März 2025, 10:35:11 CET schrieb Daniel Morris via openSUSE Factory:
So if someone under Linux doesn't know what the bin directory stands for, then they have no business using Linux. Sometimes you still have to work things out for yourself and not get everything in your lap. The bin directory is also extremely useful in the home directory. Gruß Eric
Am Freitag, 7. März 2025, 11:54:09 CET schrieb Jan Engelhardt:
What are you trying to say? Is that all you can think of? The directory existed for decades. It was used for decades. For decades it didn't take up any disk space. And now many users have to touch the system to get it back. Completely unnecessary work. That makes a lot of sense. Gruß Eric PS: Please reply to the mailing list only. Thank you.
On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 23:38:47 -0300, Heitor Moreira <heitor@opensuse.org> wrote:
80% disagree. Yes, if you switched from Windows, it makes sense. If your background is 40 years of Unix, Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, OSF-1 and the lot, it makes no sense whatsoever.
I agree that some default desktop directories are annoying. Does anyone use the Template directory?
I have always wondered why a newly created /home/xxx folder has subfolders like Music, Pictures, Public, Templates and Videos which I have never used in my entire life on *ux. Documents and Downloads make some sense, though I usually have them on /data or /work OTOH, the skeleton is just a template. The proposed changes won't remove the useful ~/bin, ~/lib and all. They will be there till the user removes them themselves, so why care? Personally I think this should be a switch/option to useradd. That is the moment where the administrator should know what kind of user it is and what they want. In yast2 it could be a tickbox. (for me the default should be bin/lib, but I could live with Documents/Media)
-- H.Merijn Brand https://tux.nl Perl Monger http://amsterdam.pm.org/ using perl5.00307 .. 5.37 porting perl5 on HP-UX, AIX, and Linux https://tux.nl/email.html http://qa.perl.org https://www.test-smoke.org
On Mon, Mar 3, 2025 at 9:03 AM David C. Rankin <drankinatty@gmail.com> wrote:
Was there a change removing $HOME/bin from TW or have I just not installed whatever provides it?
Yes, some people think that ~/bin pollutes the users home directory (but all the crappy, useless directories created by Desktops not) and removed it from the skel directory. Easy fix: - mkdir ~/bin - logout/login And everything should be as before. Thorsten -- Thorsten Kukuk, Distinguished Engineer, Senior Architect, Future Technologies SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH, Frankenstraße 146, 90461 Nuernberg, Germany Managing Director: Ivo Totev, Andrew McDonald, Werner Knoblich (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg)
On Mon, 3 Mar 2025 at 10:26, Thorsten Kukuk via openSUSE Factory < factory@lists.opensuse.org> wrote:
My prod tumbleweed hosts + VMs are happy about the change (small as it is) + no Desktop stuff polluting various developer homedirs there. Makes the ugly shit their beloved vscode drops, stand out better :-) Patrick
On 3/3/25 3:31 AM, Patrick Schaaf via openSUSE Factory wrote:
For what it is worth, using SuSE/openSUSE for 20+ years I always considered ~/bin a welcomed "feature" and not pollution in any way. I'd much rather have that functionality that Documents, Downloads, Pictures, Media, Videos, etc... I'll create and re-add and re-add to skel. This is another one to file under "If it ain't broke, DON'T FIX IT!" -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
Think about it from user experience perspective. If you ask to a non technical user what a directory named Documents mean, they will not have problem to explain. Then try to ask what a directory named bin in their user home mean. I agree that some default desktop directories are annoying. Does anyone use the Template directory? Em 06/03/2025 02:23, David C. Rankin escreveu:
On Thu, Mar 06, 2025 at 11:38:47PM -0300, Heitor Moreira wrote:
bin is what some elsewhere call Trash. I once fished some discardable files and (what they called) "folders" from a charming new Linux desktop user's ~/bin :-) I can see the benefit in simplication and the annoyance from ingrained filesystem naming shorthand/layout from the 1970's. At least more experienced users have tab-completion along paths in our shells ;-) Daniel
participants (9)
-
Andrei Borzenkov -
Daniel Morris -
David C. Rankin -
Eric Schirra -
H.Merijn Brand -
Heitor Moreira -
Jan Engelhardt -
Patrick Schaaf -
Thorsten Kukuk