[opensuse-factory] Font Rendering in Beta1
Hi, I went ahead and did an upgrade. It appeared to come off without incident. I'm not pleased that Firefox was switched out from under me when the themes and extensions are not yet ready. The new TabMix Plus gloms all my windows into a single, overloaded window when it restores a session, e.g. This is quite onerous. Presumably it's a bug that the extension's author will fix before the final release is made. What's more troubling is the fact that something has changed with font rendering and it's a degradation. With identical font configuration (in the KDE Control Center), my 10.0 installation is clearly superior in an A-B comparison. This was not so under Alpha5, where they were indistinguishable. Does anyone know what might be different in this configuration? Fonts that rendered very clearly under Alpha5 now show unmistakable artifacts that considerably reduce their legibility and attractiveness. Is it possible the hint interpreter has been disabled and the simple-minded anti-aliasing has been substituted? If so, I'll go on record saying that this is a bad idea, since the TrueType hinting is far superior to anti-aliasing. Randall Schulz --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
I second the font issue... Alpha 5 had beautiful font rendering, unfortunately Beta 1 is really really bad... I even tried a brand new account to see if wiping all the settings would help and it didn't. Oh and I'm using Gnome so apparently its not limited to just one environment... Any ideas? Thanks! ~ Joel W. On 10/26/06, Randall R Schulz <rschulz@sonic.net> wrote:
Hi,
I went ahead and did an upgrade. It appeared to come off without incident.
I'm not pleased that Firefox was switched out from under me when the themes and extensions are not yet ready. The new TabMix Plus gloms all my windows into a single, overloaded window when it restores a session, e.g. This is quite onerous. Presumably it's a bug that the extension's author will fix before the final release is made.
What's more troubling is the fact that something has changed with font rendering and it's a degradation.
With identical font configuration (in the KDE Control Center), my 10.0 installation is clearly superior in an A-B comparison. This was not so under Alpha5, where they were indistinguishable.
Does anyone know what might be different in this configuration? Fonts that rendered very clearly under Alpha5 now show unmistakable artifacts that considerably reduce their legibility and attractiveness. Is it possible the hint interpreter has been disabled and the simple-minded anti-aliasing has been substituted? If so, I'll go on record saying that this is a bad idea, since the TrueType hinting is far superior to anti-aliasing.
Randall Schulz --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 06/10/26 20:52 (GMT-0600) Joel Wampler apparently typed:
On 10/26/06, Randall R Schulz <rschulz@sonic.net> wrote:
What's more troubling is the fact that something has changed with font rendering and it's a degradation.
With identical font configuration (in the KDE Control Center), my 10.0 installation is clearly superior in an A-B comparison. This was not so under Alpha5, where they were indistinguishable.
Does anyone know what might be different in this configuration? Fonts that rendered very clearly under Alpha5 now show unmistakable artifacts that considerably reduce their legibility and attractiveness. Is it possible the hint interpreter has been disabled and the simple-minded anti-aliasing has been substituted? If so, I'll go on record saying that this is a bad idea, since the TrueType hinting is far superior to anti-aliasing.
I second the font issue... Alpha 5 had beautiful font rendering, unfortunately Beta 1 is really really bad... I even tried a brand new account to see if wiping all the settings would help and it didn't. Oh and I'm using Gnome so apparently its not limited to just one environment...
On http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/Font/fonts-face-index-full.html I don't see a significant difference. I'm running 1400x1050 ATM on factory, 1600x1200 normally on 10.0. What are you guys running? -- "The Lord is my strength and my shield; my heart trusts in him, and I am helped." Psalm 28:7 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Felix, On Thursday 26 October 2006 20:54, Felix Miata wrote:
...
I second the font issue... Alpha 5 had beautiful font rendering, unfortunately Beta 1 is really really bad... I even tried a brand new account to see if wiping all the settings would help and it didn't. Oh and I'm using Gnome so apparently its not limited to just one environment...
On http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/Font/fonts-face-index-full.html I don't see a significant difference. I'm running 1400x1050 ATM on factory, 1600x1200 normally on 10.0. What are you guys running?
<http://64.142.14.4/~rschulz/font-verdana.6-11pt.SuSE10.0.png> <http://64.142.14.4/~rschulz/font-verdana.6-11pt.SuSE10.2b1.png> I picked Verdana for this test, though it does not show as stark a difference as some fonts I use routinely. I also had the X server act up when I went to make the 10.2b5 sample. First it started killing Firefox (2.0) and then, when I tried creating a new Firefox profile, the X server itself crashed, taking my login session with it, of course. I logged in again and was able to create the sample, but clearly there's something unstable about the 10.2b1 X software. Randall Schulz --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 06/10/26 22:30 (GMT-0700) Randall R Schulz apparently typed:
<http://64.142.14.4/~rschulz/font-verdana.6-11pt.SuSE10.2b1.png>
Object not found! The requested URL was not found on this server. If you entered the URL manually please check your spelling and try again. If you think this is a server error, please contact the webmaster. Error 404 64.142.14.4 Thu Oct 26 23:54:31 2006 Apache/2.0.54 (Linux/SUSE) -- "The Lord is my strength and my shield; my heart trusts in him, and I am helped." Psalm 28:7 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
I don't have an earlier screenshot, but here's how mine look now: http://www.iwamp.com/suse/10.2UglyFonts.png Its like the auto hinter has gone haywire and is adding extra thickness to the lines of the fonts or something. The lowercase u in the first firefox tab is a great example. I'm running at 1400x1050 on my laptop. 10.0 and 10.1 both looked fine, and I thought Alpha 5 looked better than ever. I've done a lot of tinkering but haven't been able to get them back. Thanks! Joel W. On 10/27/06, Felix Miata <mrmazda@ij.net> wrote:
On 06/10/26 22:30 (GMT-0700) Randall R Schulz apparently typed:
<http://64.142.14.4/~rschulz/font-verdana.6-11pt.SuSE10.2b1.png>
Object not found!
The requested URL was not found on this server. If you entered the URL manually please check your spelling and try again.
If you think this is a server error, please contact the webmaster. Error 404 64.142.14.4 Thu Oct 26 23:54:31 2006 Apache/2.0.54 (Linux/SUSE) -- "The Lord is my strength and my shield; my heart trusts in him, and I am helped." Psalm 28:7 NIV
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409
Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Freitag, 27. Oktober 2006 10:16 schrieb Joel Wampler:
I don't have an earlier screenshot, but here's how mine look now: http://www.iwamp.com/suse/10.2UglyFonts.png
Its like the auto hinter has gone haywire and is adding extra thickness to the lines of the fonts or something. The lowercase u in the first firefox tab is a great example.
I'm running at 1400x1050 on my laptop. 10.0 and 10.1 both looked fine, and I thought Alpha 5 looked better than ever. I've done a lot of tinkering but haven't been able to get them back.
Yes, we have a new freetype and its authors worked heavily on the auto hinter. Your bug reports are welcome at bugzilla.novell.com Greetings, Stephan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Stephan, On Friday 27 October 2006 01:24, Stephan Kulow wrote:
...
Yes, we have a new freetype and its authors worked heavily on the auto hinter. Your bug reports are welcome at bugzilla.novell.com
Unless they can recover the previous release's quality before 10.2 final, I'm going to be very upset by this. Font rendering quality is a key characteristic for me. (It's far more important to me than, say, 3D performance, e.g.) I spend a lot of time choosing fonts and rendering options in KDE and individual applications so get optimal quality. Lowering the quality system-wide is, to me, a bad, bad thing. What motivated replacing what seemed to me to be a fine implementation?
Greetings, Stephan
Randall Schulz --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Freitag, 27. Oktober 2006 16:20 schrieb Randall R Schulz:
What motivated replacing what seemed to me to be a fine implementation?
I bet you should subscribe to the freetype mailing list and make useful suggestions like this there? Make sure you read the arguments of those in bug#170067 first though. Greetings, Stephan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Stephan, On Friday 27 October 2006 07:27, Stephan Kulow wrote:
Am Freitag, 27. Oktober 2006 16:20 schrieb Randall R Schulz:
What motivated replacing what seemed to me to be a fine implementation?
I bet you should subscribe to the freetype mailing list and make useful suggestions like this there? Make sure you read the arguments of those in bug#170067 first though.
Is that a SuSE FreeType list, or a global one? I've read bugs 170076 and 186109 (well, so far I've just skimmed 186109--there's a lot of information there). If I can get the old behavior by tweaking /etc/fonts/suse-hinting.conf and / or /etc/sysconfig/fonts-config, I will. If I can get the old quality by recompiling FreeType, I will (I did just that to enable the so-called "byte code interpreter" under 9.3, I think it was). I will do absolutely anything in my power to get the best possible font rendering. It is the single most important usability issue for me on any system.
Greetings, Stephan
Randall Schulz --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Randall R Schulz <rschulz@sonic.net> さんは書きました:
If I can get the old behavior by tweaking /etc/fonts/suse-hinting.conf and / or /etc/sysconfig/fonts-config, I will. If I can get the old quality by recompiling FreeType, I will (I did just that to enable the so-called "byte code interpreter" under 9.3, I think it was).
If you prefer the byte code interpreter, why do you use the autohinter? -- Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> http://www.suse.de/~mfabian 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Mike, On Friday 27 October 2006 09:03, Mike FABIAN wrote:
Randall R Schulz <rschulz@sonic.net> さんは書きました:
If I can get the old behavior by tweaking /etc/fonts/suse-hinting.conf and / or /etc/sysconfig/fonts-config, I will. If I can get the old quality by recompiling FreeType, I will (I did just that to enable the so-called "byte code interpreter" under 9.3, I think it was).
If you prefer the byte code interpreter, why do you use the autohinter?
Eh? I'm reporting on a change that occurred between Alpha5 and Beta1. I didn't choose one or the other in either case. It's a degradation of quality in an installed system that was upgraded. Randall Schulz --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi, On Friday 27 October 2006 07:53, Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Friday 27 October 2006 07:27, Stephan Kulow wrote:
... Make sure you read the arguments of those in bug#170067 first though.
...
I've read bugs 170076 and 186109 (well, so far I've just skimmed 186109--there's a lot of information there).
<https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=215602> apparently addresses the same issue. Randall Schulz --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Randall R Schulz <rschulz@sonic.net> さんは書きました:
Hi,
On Friday 27 October 2006 07:53, Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Friday 27 October 2006 07:27, Stephan Kulow wrote:
... Make sure you read the arguments of those in bug#170067 first though.
...
I've read bugs 170076 and 186109 (well, so far I've just skimmed 186109--there's a lot of information there).
<https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=215602> apparently addresses the same issue.
It's related, but it is not the same. Verdana has good byte code and renders excellently when the byte code interpreter is used instead of the autohinter. The Japanese IPA fonts don't have any byte code at all, when the autohinter is not used, the fonts get a blurred appearance. That is very different from the sharp appearance of Verdana when used with the byte code interpreter. -- Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> http://www.suse.de/~mfabian 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Mike, On Friday 27 October 2006 12:02, Mike FABIAN wrote:
...
<https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=215602> apparently addresses the same issue.
It's related, but it is not the same.
Verdana has good byte code and renders excellently when the byte code interpreter is used instead of the autohinter.
The Japanese IPA fonts don't have any byte code at all, when the autohinter is not used, the fonts get a blurred appearance. That is very different from the sharp appearance of Verdana when used with the byte code interpreter.
Gotcha' RRS --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
"Joel Wampler" <wampler@gmail.com> さんは書きました:
I don't have an earlier screenshot, but here's how mine look now: http://www.iwamp.com/suse/10.2UglyFonts.png
That screen shot is not directly comparable to the screen shot posted by Randall R Schulz. Randalls screen shot apparently uses sub-pixel hinting, your screen shot does not.
Its like the auto hinter has gone haywire and is adding extra thickness to the lines of the fonts or something. The lowercase u in the first firefox tab is a great example.
The autohinter of the current version of freetype does render most glyphs a lot bolder than before. I still think that is better than rendering only the diagonals very bold and all vertical and horizontal lines not bold as it was the case in SuSE 10.1 with sub-pixel hinting switched on. See http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=170067 Anyway, most of the fonts which are discussed here (Microsoft fonts like Verdana, Agfa Fonts, Déjà Vu fonts, ...) have good TrueType byte code instructions, using the byte code interpreter for these fonts instead of the autohinter seems to produce far better results. I'll try to disable the autohinter for these fonts *if* the byte code interpreter is compiled into freetype2. Currently the byte code interpreter is compiled into our freetype2 package. -- Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> http://www.suse.de/~mfabian 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Joel, On Friday 27 October 2006 01:16, Joel Wampler wrote:
I don't have an earlier screenshot, but here's how mine look now: http://www.iwamp.com/suse/10.2UglyFonts.png
Its like the auto hinter has gone haywire and is adding extra thickness to the lines of the fonts or something. The lowercase u in the first firefox tab is a great example.
Yes. That describes what I'm seeing, too. Some fonts are actually much worse than the Verdana sample I posted.
...
Thanks! Joel W.
Randall Schulz --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi, On Thursday 26 October 2006 23:57, Felix Miata wrote:
On 06/10/26 22:30 (GMT-0700) Randall R Schulz apparently typed:
<http://64.142.14.4/~rschulz/font-verdana.6-11pt.SuSE10.2b1.png>
Object not found!
Sorry. Try now: <http://64.142.14.4/~rschulz/font-verdana.6-10pt.SuSE10.0.png> <http://64.142.14.4/~rschulz/font-verdana.6-10pt.SuSE10.2b1.png> (Note: The names changed, use these links.) Randall Schulz --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Randall R Schulz <rschulz@sonic.net> さんは書きました:
Hi,
On Thursday 26 October 2006 23:57, Felix Miata wrote:
On 06/10/26 22:30 (GMT-0700) Randall R Schulz apparently typed:
<http://64.142.14.4/~rschulz/font-verdana.6-11pt.SuSE10.2b1.png>
Object not found!
Sorry. Try now:
<http://64.142.14.4/~rschulz/font-verdana.6-10pt.SuSE10.0.png> <http://64.142.14.4/~rschulz/font-verdana.6-10pt.SuSE10.2b1.png>
(Note: The names changed, use these links.)
I still get a 404 on the second URL. -- Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> http://www.suse.de/~mfabian 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 27 October 2006 09:00, Mike FABIAN wrote:
...
<http://64.142.14.4/~rschulz/font-verdana.6-10pt.SuSE10.0.png> <http://64.142.14.4/~rschulz/font-verdana.6-10pt.SuSE10.2b1.png>
(Note: The names changed, use these links.)
I still get a 404 on the second URL.
Sorry. It's fixed for real, now. RRS -- P.S. Would you consider removing the Reply-To header from you list postings? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Randall R Schulz <rschulz@sonic.net> さんは書きました:
On Friday 27 October 2006 09:00, Mike FABIAN wrote:
...
<http://64.142.14.4/~rschulz/font-verdana.6-10pt.SuSE10.0.png> <http://64.142.14.4/~rschulz/font-verdana.6-10pt.SuSE10.2b1.png>
(Note: The names changed, use these links.)
I still get a 404 on the second URL.
Sorry. It's fixed for real, now.
Thank you. The second screen shot is bolder, yes. But it is more consistent. In your first screen shot, the 'w', 'x', and 'y' in the 11pt line are bolder than the other glyphs in that line.
P.S. Would you consider removing the Reply-To header from you list postings?
I prefer to get replies *both* to the list and in my inbox because I don't want to poll all lists to check whether there has been a reply to one of my postings. Just use something like "Group Reply" to send you answer both to the list and to the address in my Reply-to. -- Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> http://www.suse.de/~mfabian 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Mike, On Friday 27 October 2006 09:41, Mike FABIAN wrote:
...
The second screen shot is bolder, yes. But it is more consistent.
In your first screen shot, the 'w', 'x', and 'y' in the 11pt line are bolder than the other glyphs in that line.
I've added a snapshot of the Verdana sampler using the configuration change you suggested:
<match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="autohint" > <bool>false</bool> </edit> </match>
The complete 10.2b1 ~/.fonts.conf is: -==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==- <!-- Per suggestion from Mike Fabian --> <match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="autohint" > <bool>false</bool> </edit> </match> <match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="rgba" > <const>rgb</const> </edit> </match> <match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="hinting" > <bool>true</bool> </edit> </match> <match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="hintstyle" > <const>hintfull</const> </edit> </match> <match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="antialias" > <bool>true</bool> </edit> </match> -==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==- Here are the snapshot URLs: <http://64.142.14.4/~rschulz/font-verdana.6-10pt.SuSE10.0.png> <http://64.142.14.4/~rschulz/font-verdana.6-10pt.SuSE10.2b1.png> <http://64.142.14.4/~rschulz/font-verdana.6-13pt.SuSE10.2b1+MFabian.png> I've added a "sampler" page at: <http://64.142.14.4/~rschulz/font-sampler.html> So I will say that the 10.0 rendering is still distinctly preferable to me. The clarity and sharpness of the letterforms (in contrast to their faithfulness to the actual outlines that define them) is of paramount importance to me. Also you'll note that diagonal strokes tend to disappear with your autohint setting where they remain nicely stroked in 10.0. For the record, my 10.0 ~/.fonts.conf is: -==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==- <fontconfig> <match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="hinting" > <bool>true</bool> </edit> </match> <match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="hintstyle" > <const>hintfull</const> </edit> </match> <dir>~/.fonts</dir> <match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="rgba" > <const>rgb</const> </edit> </match> </fontconfig> -==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==- By the way, if I use this .fonts.conf on 10.2b1, the results are worse than any depicted in the sampler. Randall Schulz --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Randall R Schulz <rschulz@sonic.net> さんは書きました:
I've added a snapshot of the Verdana sampler using the configuration change you suggested:
Thank you, that is very nice for comparison.
<match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="autohint" > <bool>false</bool> </edit> </match>
The complete 10.2b1 ~/.fonts.conf is:
-==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==- <!-- Per suggestion from Mike Fabian --> <match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="autohint" > <bool>false</bool> </edit> </match>
<match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="rgba" > <const>rgb</const> </edit> </match>
The last rule above switches on sub-pixel-hinting (rgba is set to "rgb"). But when looking at your sampler page one can see that only the SuSE 10.0 screen shot uses sub-pixel-hinting, the others do not. The reason is, that the freetype2 package currently in beta1 has disabled sub-pixel-hinting at compile time. If sub-pixel-hinting is already disabled at compile time in freetype2, it is not possible anymore to switch it on with the setup rule above. Therefore it is difficult to compare your SuSE 10.0 screen shot with the 10.2beta1 screen shot, in a way it is comparing apples and oranges.
I've added a "sampler" page at:
<http://64.142.14.4/~rschulz/font-sampler.html>
So I will say that the 10.0 rendering is still distinctly preferable to me. The clarity and sharpness of the letterforms (in contrast to their faithfulness to the actual outlines that define them) is of paramount importance to me. Also you'll note that diagonal strokes tend to disappear with your autohint setting where they remain nicely stroked in 10.0.
For the record, my 10.0 ~/.fonts.conf is:
-==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==- <fontconfig> <match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="hinting" > <bool>true</bool> </edit> </match> <match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="hintstyle" > <const>hintfull</const> </edit> </match> <dir>~/.fonts</dir>
<match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="rgba" > <const>rgb</const> </edit> </match> </fontconfig> -==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==-
By the way, if I use this .fonts.conf on 10.2b1, the results are worse than any depicted in the sampler.
-- Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> http://www.suse.de/~mfabian 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Mike, On Saturday 28 October 2006 02:34, Mike FABIAN wrote:
...
-==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==- <!-- Per suggestion from Mike Fabian --> <match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="autohint" > <bool>false</bool> </edit> </match>
...
<match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="rgba" > <const>rgb</const> </edit> </match>
The last rule above switches on sub-pixel-hinting (rgba is set to "rgb").
But when looking at your sampler page one can see that only the SuSE 10.0 screen shot uses sub-pixel-hinting, the others do not. The reason is, that the freetype2 package currently in beta1 has disabled sub-pixel-hinting at compile time. If sub-pixel-hinting is already disabled at compile time in freetype2, it is not possible anymore to switch it on with the setup rule above.
Well, why is it compiled out? Will it be restored in the next release? Remember, in 10.2Alpha5, the results I got were indistinguishable from 10.0 and much preferred to me over what I have now. It still seems these changes are gratuitous and capricious. Randall Schulz --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 27 October 2006 06:30, Randall R Schulz wrote:
<http://64.142.14.4/~rschulz/font-verdana.6-11pt.SuSE10.2b1.png> That's a 404 for me! -- Bill Gallafent. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Randall R Schulz <rschulz@sonic.net> さんは書きました:
Felix,
On Thursday 26 October 2006 20:54, Felix Miata wrote:
...
I second the font issue... Alpha 5 had beautiful font rendering, unfortunately Beta 1 is really really bad... I even tried a brand new account to see if wiping all the settings would help and it didn't. Oh and I'm using Gnome so apparently its not limited to just one environment...
On http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/Font/fonts-face-index-full.html I don't see a significant difference. I'm running 1400x1050 ATM on factory, 1600x1200 normally on 10.0. What are you guys running?
<http://64.142.14.4/~rschulz/font-verdana.6-11pt.SuSE10.0.png> <http://64.142.14.4/~rschulz/font-verdana.6-11pt.SuSE10.2b1.png>
Can you please make the second screen shot available? I get error 404. -- Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> http://www.suse.de/~mfabian 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 06/10/26 22:30 (GMT-0700) Randall R Schulz apparently typed:
On Thursday 26 October 2006 20:54, Felix Miata wrote:
On http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/Font/fonts-face-index-full.html I don't see a significant difference. I'm running 1400x1050 ATM on factory, 1600x1200 normally on 10.0. What are you guys running?
<http://64.142.14.4/~rschulz/font-verdana.6-10pt.SuSE10.0.png> <http://64.142.14.4/~rschulz/font-verdana.6-10pt.SuSE10.2b1.png>
I picked Verdana for this test, though it does not show as stark a difference as some fonts I use routinely.
I also had the X server act up when I went to make the 10.2b5 sample. First it started killing Firefox (2.0) and then, when I tried creating a new Firefox profile, the X server itself crashed, taking my login session with it, of course. I logged in again and was able to create the sample, but clearly there's something unstable about the 10.2b1 X software.
I find the vastly superior kerning of the latter overwhelms any other difference there might be. -- "The Lord is my strength and my shield; my heart trusts in him, and I am helped." Psalm 28:7 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Felix, On Friday 27 October 2006 09:30, Felix Miata wrote:
...
<http://64.142.14.4/~rschulz/font-verdana.6-10pt.SuSE10.0.png> <http://64.142.14.4/~rschulz/font-verdana.6-10pt.SuSE10.2b1.png>
I picked Verdana for this test, though it does not show as stark a difference as some fonts I use routinely.
...
I find the vastly superior kerning of the latter overwhelms any other difference there might be.
For me the sharpness of the 10.0 (and 10.2Alpha5) is by far the overriding factor. I need to use small fonts when programming and in general want to get as much textual information on the screen as possible. Randall Schulz --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Randall R Schulz <rschulz@sonic.net> さんは書きました:
Felix,
On Friday 27 October 2006 09:30, Felix Miata wrote:
...
<http://64.142.14.4/~rschulz/font-verdana.6-10pt.SuSE10.0.png> <http://64.142.14.4/~rschulz/font-verdana.6-10pt.SuSE10.2b1.png>
I picked Verdana for this test, though it does not show as stark a difference as some fonts I use routinely.
...
I find the vastly superior kerning of the latter overwhelms any other difference there might be.
For me the sharpness of the 10.0 (and 10.2Alpha5) is by far the overriding factor. I need to use small fonts when programming and in general want to get as much textual information on the screen as possible.
Then use the byte code interpreter. The rendering with the byte code interpreter for Verdana is even sharper than your first screen shot. Really. Most likely I will make rendering with the byte code interpreter the default for certain list of fonts where it obviously gives superior results. -- Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> http://www.suse.de/~mfabian 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> さんは書きました:
Randall R Schulz <rschulz@sonic.net> さんは書きました:
Felix,
On Friday 27 October 2006 09:30, Felix Miata wrote:
...
<http://64.142.14.4/~rschulz/font-verdana.6-10pt.SuSE10.0.png> <http://64.142.14.4/~rschulz/font-verdana.6-10pt.SuSE10.2b1.png>
I picked Verdana for this test, though it does not show as stark a difference as some fonts I use routinely.
...
I find the vastly superior kerning of the latter overwhelms any other difference there might be.
For me the sharpness of the 10.0 (and 10.2Alpha5) is by far the overriding factor. I need to use small fonts when programming and in general want to get as much textual information on the screen as possible.
Then use the byte code interpreter. The rendering with the byte code interpreter for Verdana is even sharper than your first screen shot. Really.
Most likely I will make rendering with the byte code interpreter the default for certain list of fonts where it obviously gives superior results.
To test how it looks like using the byte code interpreter, put the following in your ~/.fonts.conf file: <?xml version="1.0"?><fontconfig> [...] <match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="autohint" > <bool>false</bool> </edit> </match> [...] </fontconfig> But there are fonts (though not Verdana) which look better if the autohinter is used. Therefore switching the autohinter off always as in the above example is not a perfect solution either. -- Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> http://www.suse.de/~mfabian 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Mike, On Friday 27 October 2006 09:53, Mike FABIAN wrote:
...
Most likely I will make rendering with the byte code interpreter the default for certain list of fonts where it obviously gives superior results.
To test how it looks like using the byte code interpreter, put the following in your ~/.fonts.conf file:
<?xml version="1.0"?><fontconfig>
[...]
<match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="autohint" > <bool>false</bool> </edit> </match>
[...]
</fontconfig>
These elements existed previously (clearly created by the Fonts module of the KDE Control Center). Should I replace them with the ones you gave, or add your to these? If the latter, does ordering matter? <match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="rgba" > <const>rgb</const> </edit> </match> <match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="hinting" > <bool>true</bool> </edit> </match> <match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="hintstyle" > <const>hintmedium</const> </edit> </match> <match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="antialias" > <bool>true</bool> </edit> </match>
But there are fonts (though not Verdana) which look better if the autohinter is used. Therefore switching the autohinter off always as in the above example is not a perfect solution either.
I'm more than willing to refine the configuration as much as required. I'm a fanatic about getting fonts the way I want them (I'll refrain from saying "right," since there clearly are subjective factors in this matter). Where are the various configuration files documented? I think I'm going to need to know all about them. Randall Schulz --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Randall R Schulz <rschulz@sonic.net> さんは書きました:
Mike,
On Friday 27 October 2006 09:53, Mike FABIAN wrote:
...
Most likely I will make rendering with the byte code interpreter the default for certain list of fonts where it obviously gives superior results.
To test how it looks like using the byte code interpreter, put the following in your ~/.fonts.conf file:
<?xml version="1.0"?><fontconfig>
[...]
<match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="autohint" > <bool>false</bool> </edit> </match>
[...]
</fontconfig>
These elements existed previously (clearly created by the Fonts module of the KDE Control Center).
Yes.
Should I replace them with the ones you gave, or add your to these? If the latter, does ordering matter?
<match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="rgba" > <const>rgb</const> </edit> </match>
<match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="hinting" > <bool>true</bool> </edit> </match>
<match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="hintstyle" > <const>hintmedium</const> </edit> </match>
<match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="antialias" > <bool>true</bool> </edit> </match>
Add the elements I quoted. The order does not matter in this case (Of course you should not place them within another match rule). I.e. add the part <match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="autohint" > <bool>false</bool> </edit> </match> at any of the places I mark with * below: * * * * *
But there are fonts (though not Verdana) which look better if the autohinter is used. Therefore switching the autohinter off always as in the above example is not a perfect solution either.
I'm more than willing to refine the configuration as much as required. I'm a fanatic about getting fonts the way I want them (I'll refrain from saying "right," since there clearly are subjective factors in this matter).
Yes, there is a fair amount of subjectivity here. -- Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> http://www.suse.de/~mfabian 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Mike, On Friday 27 October 2006 09:53, Mike FABIAN wrote:
...
<?xml version="1.0"?><fontconfig>
[...]
<match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="autohint" > <bool>false</bool> </edit> </match>
[...]
</fontconfig>
When used in place of the elements that were in my ~/.fonts.conf that certainly yielded an improvement, but it's not yet as good as what I had before. I'm looking at /etc/fonts/fonts.dtd for an explanation of these elements. Is there more documentation elsewhere? Randall Schulz --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Randall R Schulz <rschulz@sonic.net> さんは書きました:
Mike,
On Friday 27 October 2006 09:53, Mike FABIAN wrote:
...
<?xml version="1.0"?><fontconfig>
[...]
<match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="autohint" > <bool>false</bool> </edit> </match>
[...]
</fontconfig>
When used in place of the elements that were in my ~/.fonts.conf that certainly yielded an improvement, but it's not yet as good as what I had before.
Screen shot?
I'm looking at /etc/fonts/fonts.dtd for an explanation of these elements. Is there more documentation elsewhere?
Not much, as far as I know. There are a few simple examples at http://www.suse.de/~mfabian/suse-cjk/fonts-xft-fontconfig.html It would be nice to have better documentation of course. -- Mike FABIAN <mfabian@suse.de> http://www.suse.de/~mfabian 睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le vendredi 27 octobre 2006 10:53, Mike FABIAN a écrit : [....]
I'm looking at /etc/fonts/fonts.dtd for an explanation of these elements. Is there more documentation elsewhere?
Not much, as far as I know. There are a few simple examples at
http://www.suse.de/~mfabian/suse-cjk/fonts-xft-fontconfig.html
It would be nice to have better documentation of course.
Is there a documentation, howto, manual, etc. that explains what software components are involved in the font rendering and how they can be configured? And maybe there is a document out there that explains the lingo generally used? I have a hard time telling subpixel-hinting from auto-hinting and anti-aliasing, or what the bytecode-interpreter does. -- TIA Andreas --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
2006/10/26, Randall R Schulz <rschulz@sonic.net>:
Hi,
I went ahead and did an upgrade. It appeared to come off without incident.
I'm not pleased that Firefox was switched out from under me when the themes and extensions are not yet ready. The new TabMix Plus gloms all my windows into a single, overloaded window when it restores a session, e.g. This is quite onerous. Presumably it's a bug that the extension's author will fix before the final release is made.
What's more troubling is the fact that something has changed with font rendering and it's a degradation.
With identical font configuration (in the KDE Control Center), my 10.0 installation is clearly superior in an A-B comparison. This was not so under Alpha5, where they were indistinguishable.
Does anyone know what might be different in this configuration? Fonts that rendered very clearly under Alpha5 now show unmistakable artifacts that considerably reduce their legibility and attractiveness. Is it possible the hint interpreter has been disabled and the simple-minded anti-aliasing has been substituted? If so, I'll go on record saying that this is a bad idea, since the TrueType hinting is far superior to anti-aliasing.
I got this problem under alpha 5 plus (appeared with Xorg 7), but now setting in the xorg.conf the parameter Option "RenderAccell" "no", do'nt resolves the problem with the nvidia driver, and I must to switch from the "nvidia" driver to "nv", for continue to using the system without accelleration, but with the right font rendering. Regards --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
participants (8)
-
Andreas -
Felix Miata -
Joel Wampler -
Juan Erbes -
Mike FABIAN -
Randall R Schulz -
Stephan Kulow -
William Gallafent