Desktop WG meeting (The very first one) https://etherpad.opensuse.org/p/DesktopWorkgroup-20220707 Will be sent to factory@lists.opensuse.org and results@suse.de Attendees: lkocman, dimstar, rbrown, alynx zhou, alarrosa, Benjamin Zeller, Cliff Zhao, Chris Dywan, Daike Yu, Danilo Spinella, Dennis Knorr, Frederic Crozat, Joan Torres, Scott Reeves, Simon Lees, Song Chuan Kang, Vasilis Liaskovitis, Xiaoguang Wang, Yi Fan Jiang, Zhao Cong Jia Yi Fan introduced the WG Topic 1: GDM container Frederic - Raising topic of reboots on desktop introducing GDM container, making sure that the graphical stack (bellow the apps) can be re-deployed without reboot. Dimstar: what about multi user systems, remote access. Frederic: right now gdm is started as a systemd service. It's inheriting user from the host. Any users on the systems are inherited there. Richard: I'm guessing it's highly privileged containers. Frederic if you want to try it, just try MicroOS server. Scott: is there any downsides, to run everything in containers? Richard: sometimes we're moving too fast. We can move GDM faster than the BaseOS. This might be good if customers want that, but it's bad if they don't. We might end up with multiple versions of the same container. It's faster moving than we're used to. We need to be able to take different load at a different pace than we're used. Frederic: putting rpms into baseos is maybe something we can still do. Richard: The reason why we're doing with MicroOS what we're doing is because, we're moving as fast as BaseOS (TW). If we need to move faster or slower we can. Richard: I can see both approaches working for ALP. Scott: we still don't have personas for ALP Desktop. Yi Fan: if we have PM at all before the release, then what? Frederic: right now we're focusing on PoC for September. It's not a comittment of what we need to delvier in ALP. We need something that we can get to people and have a feedback. lkocman: I recommended the same that I recommended to Installer WG. Please submit it to factory as soon as possible, so people (Simon was excited on the call) can get hands on it soon. It's a commitment whether it will be in ALP or not. It's just following our standard development model. Frederic: it's already in OBS, perhaps I could put it to some BCI container :-) Cris: the fact is that everything is root owned and fully privileged. Is this fine, or is it something we should reconsider it? Frederic: The container runs as "gdm", not "root" so it's like it works from a package. It is unpriviledged right now to facilitate the proof of concept. Perhaps if everything is working in the fully priviliged, then we can start reducing permissions. Michal: I commented on confluence and added a link to bugreport where wayland was not working on a specific graphical adaptor (Matrox, AST), these do work with xserver but not work with wayland. How do we solve this, desktop on these adapters would be super slow. There are some options. Can this be fixed in wayland? Simon: if ALP is going to be wayland only, then someone in the community will be crazy to add X11. lkocman: what about Xwayland? Michal: the problem is that if Wayland will not work then XWayland on top of Wayland will not work either. lkocman: I've heard that there is an option that we'd have only x86-64- v3, would these graphical adapters still make sense on 2017+ old/new hardware? Michal: yes, these adapters are still used on a new hardware. Just to clarify: are we talking about issues with wayland protocol, or about things like gnome? There might be ways, to work inside wayland to make it less demanding, or maybe not. Simon: every implementation of wayland in some way use opengl ES, the card, must support it. Yi Fan - we should leave technical details outside of this meeting (please fill the name in) Desktop QE I will try to test it in next few days https://github.com/fcrozat/gdm-container X11 drop discussion: Frederic: The time why Product Management is recommending to drop X11 now, is because it's right time. If we start with X11, it will be impossible to drop it in the future, even if we ship it in the container. Yes there might be issues with AST chipset, perhaps it's an opportunity to have a new codebase and do not maintain code that we do not want for next 20 years. Yi Fan: you've had a nice hackweek project, do you want to share it today, or leave it to the next meeting: Remote access: Do you want to share what is coming Joan? Joan: I'm working on gnome-remote-desktop. It works sharing the desktop on a local "standard" session. But, on the headless use case there are still some things that need to be done, although it can work with some dirty workarounds. Gnome-remote-desktop is a session systemd daemon that provides a remote connection using VNC/RDP protocols. We want to have also a system daemon that provides a headless gdm on new connections and once you login it handovers to a new or an existing gnome session. I'm joining forces with the upstream, so we can have gnome-desktop via gnome-remote-desktop on wayland. I working with same help from Vasilis and Daike. Michael: It might be interesting to run the remote desktop on these problematic adapters, and see if performance of remote desktop is better than directly on the hardware. We're working with gnome-remote-desktop which provides VNC server as well as RDP server. Seems like nowadays is trend to move from VNC to RDP. Dominique: Gnome Boxes was planning to drop RDP support Frederic, perhaps it's just moved to a different program. Vasilis: I've spent hackweek looking into some deficiency on VNC. Seems like on RDP there is a support for desktop resizing in RDP, but not in VNC. Doesn't seem to be difficult to add, seems like GNOME developers are really focusing on RDP. I focus on VNC, but I see that I'll have to focus on RDP as wqell. Alynx: I've started to add some missing parts to gnome-remote-desktop, besides from RDP, VNC. If we want to support headless, than we need to revisit credentials. Yi Fan, do I get it right that we might not catch the september prototype with remote desktop. As in nothing will be there. Yi Fan: Any more topics: lkocman: I'd like to make a call to community to install MicroOS Desktop for two weeks, and share his experirence with us. This would be a valueable feedback for the team. We could do also a blog post from such experience (like my week/two with Immutable Desktop or similar). https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/factory@lists.opensuse.org/message/... Yi Fan: What about the flatpak version? Richard: we use upstream flatpak. In regards to community edition, we should go upstream first, with regards to Enterprise distro that's to be clarified. Frederic: this one is old and untested https://github.com/fcrozat/opensuse-flatpak-runtime If you look at what BCI did with SLE, we have different BCI bases for different language sets, go one could go faster, python could go slower ... users won't care