[opensuse-factory] XGL settings in yast

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Rodrigo Moya

17 Mar 2008 17 Mar '08

11:03

Hi We have now patched gnome-xgl-settings to not contain any configuration at all (it just calls ccsm for all config), so it is now just a simple frontend to gnome-xgl-switch. I've been asking and it seems compiz users in KDE use the same ugly gnome-xgl-settings, so we've been discussing (in #opensuse-factory and -gnome) about having this functionality (calling, or doing what, gnome-xgl-switch does) in YAST. The alternatives being, a) keep gnome-xgl-settings, and b) have a per-desktop solution. For b), in GNOME we would add a 'Desktop effects' tab to the appearance capplet, like Ubuntu does Not sure if as a separate module, or just under the Display config in YAST, since it's just one button ("Enable XGL"). What do you think? -- Rodrigo Moya --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

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CyberOrg

17 Mar 17 Mar

11:18

On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Rodrigo Moya wrote:

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gnome-xgl-switch does) in YAST. The alternatives being, a) keep gnome-xgl-settings, and b) have a per-desktop solution. For b), in GNOME we would add a 'Desktop effects' tab to the appearance capplet, like Ubuntu does

Keeping something simple to enable and disable compiz like option b is better. AIGLX would be default for all the supported hardware so root access is not required just to turn on compiz.

...

Not sure if as a separate module, or just under the Display config in YAST, since it's just one button ("Enable XGL").

To enable/disable Xgl root access is required and would be better in yast, it might confuse users and they would enable Xgl anyway even if AIGLX is enabled. we need to take care that user know that Xgl is optional. Cheers -J --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Rodrigo Moya

16:17

On Mon, 2008-03-17 at 16:48 +0530, CyberOrg wrote:

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On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Rodrigo Moya wrote:

...
gnome-xgl-switch does) in YAST. The alternatives being, a) keep gnome-xgl-settings, and b) have a per-desktop solution. For b), in GNOME we would add a 'Desktop effects' tab to the appearance capplet, like Ubuntu does

Keeping something simple to enable and disable compiz like option b is better.

AIGLX would be default for all the supported hardware so root access is not required just to turn on compiz.

hmm, gnome-xgl-switch will still need root password, right?

...

...
Not sure if as a separate module, or just under the Display config in YAST, since it's just one button ("Enable XGL").

To enable/disable Xgl root access is required and would be better in yast, it might confuse users and they would enable Xgl anyway even if AIGLX is enabled. we need to take care that user know that Xgl is optional.

how does the user enable/disable aiglx in factory? -- Rodrigo Moya --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

CyberOrg

16:26

On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 9:47 PM, Rodrigo Moya wrote:

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On Mon, 2008-03-17 at 16:48 +0530, CyberOrg wrote:

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On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Rodrigo Moya wrote:

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hmm, gnome-xgl-switch will still need root password, right?

Yes.

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how does the user enable/disable aiglx in factory?

To enable nvidia native, we run the commands mentioned here: http://en.opensuse.org/NVIDIA For ATI and Intel is is manual editing of /etc/xorg.conf which is real pain, but as AIGLX would be default on all the supported hardware this will go away. We just need Xgl switch(root access) and compiz switch (user controlled) compiz-manager script will launch compiz with all the required options depending on Xgl/Aiglx or nvidia native mode used. So what is required is to launch compiz before other window manager starts otherwise we get X epileptic seizures before compiz starts. Ciao -J --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Matthias Hopf

17:23

On Mar 17, 08 21:56:06 +0530, CyberOrg wrote:

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For ATI and Intel is is manual editing of /etc/xorg.conf which is real pain, but as AIGLX would be default on all the supported hardware this will go away. We just need Xgl switch(root access) and compiz switch (user controlled)

This is too elaborated. The user doesn't want to select Xgl/compiz, he wants to select Desktop Effects, and don't care about the background until necessary.

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compiz-manager script will launch compiz with all the required options depending on Xgl/Aiglx or nvidia native mode used. So what is required

That will probably a no-brainer, if the patch I'm working on works as anticipated. Always wanted to do that, but time... Still, there's the window decorator to start, and the right options depending on configuration method. CU Matthias -- Matthias Hopf __ __ __ Maxfeldstr. 5 / 90409 Nuernberg (_ | | (_ |__ mat@mshopf.de Phone +49-911-74053-715 __) |_| __) |__ R & D www.mshopf.de --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

JP Rosevear

17:33

On Mon, 2008-03-17 at 21:56 +0530, CyberOrg wrote:

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On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 9:47 PM, Rodrigo Moya wrote:

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On Mon, 2008-03-17 at 16:48 +0530, CyberOrg wrote:

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On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Rodrigo Moya wrote:

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hmm, gnome-xgl-switch will still need root password, right?

Yes.

Unless you policykit'ed it for flexibility. -JP -- JP Rosevear Novell, Inc. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Martin Schlander

11:52

Mandag den 17. Marts 2008 12:03:46 skrev Rodrigo Moya:

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I've been asking and it seems compiz users in KDE use the same ugly gnome-xgl-settings, so we've been discussing (in #opensuse-factory and -gnome) about having this functionality (calling, or doing what, gnome-xgl-switch does) in YAST. The alternatives being, a) keep gnome-xgl-settings, and b) have a per-desktop solution. For b), in GNOME we would add a 'Desktop effects' tab to the appearance capplet, like Ubuntu does

Not sure if as a separate module, or just under the Display config in YAST, since it's just one button ("Enable XGL").

What do you think?

I think there are three different (interdependant) steps to consider. 1) Enabling composite extension in X-server If AIGLX/XGL/Nvidia-glx is enabled by default depending on which driver is used, then we don't need a tool to do this. This seems to be the case: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=247374#c37 2) Make compositing window manager launch automatically on startup. It would be great to have some easy way for the user to select window manager (kwin, compiz, compiz+compiz fusion), that would make the window manager automatically start up smoothly with the desktop environment - as opposed to using hackish scripts that replace the window manager after startup. Regardless of which composite extension is used (xgl, aiglx, nvidia-glx). This might require some hacking of the desktop environments, not sure. I also wonder how likely it is that any gnome users would consider using kwin. There's also the question of kde3 users on 11.0. Should there be a gui tool for them to enable Compiz and KWin(4)? Not to mention Xfce users. No clue about their wants and needs. 3) Configuring the window manager For kwin you can use systemsettings, for Compiz Fusion you can use ccsm, but I'm not sure if there's any sensible and easy way to configure (just) Compiz yet - with regard to which plugins are loaded and how they are set up. To sum up. Assuming xgl/aiglx/nvidia-glx is enabled by default and works, all this new tool needs to do is to select the the compositing window manager and make sure it's launched on desktop startup. This is only relevant of course, assuming that a non-negligble number of KDE users will prefer Compiz (Fusion) over KWin. Many things to consider... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Matthias Hopf

14:35

On Mar 17, 08 12:03:46 +0100, Rodrigo Moya wrote:

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We have now patched gnome-xgl-settings to not contain any configuration at all (it just calls ccsm for all config), so it is now just a simple frontend to gnome-xgl-switch.

O-key. Does it still test the graphics card against the database, i.e. does it verify whether Xgl / AIGLX will be able to run on this card at all?

...

I've been asking and it seems compiz users in KDE use the same ugly gnome-xgl-settings, so we've been discussing (in #opensuse-factory and -gnome) about having this functionality (calling, or doing what, gnome-xgl-switch does) in YAST. The alternatives being, a) keep gnome-xgl-settings, and b) have a per-desktop solution. For b), in GNOME we would add a 'Desktop effects' tab to the appearance capplet, like Ubuntu does

This is no in our realm, if the KDE and Gnome guys agree on having this in Yast, this would be awesome. OTOH we should be aware that with Yast we do explicitly NOT mean sax2.

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Not sure if as a separate module, or just under the Display config in YAST, since it's just one button ("Enable XGL").

Hm. IMHO this requires too much low-level knowledge. I would consider the best solution to have a switch for "Enable Desktop Effects", and then some sub-option (with reasonable defaults filled it depending on the graphics card) to select between a) "Xgl" and b) "AIGLX / Native Support" (if you want to be perfect about this, write "Native Support" for nvidia, "AIGLX" for all others). So users who care about the technical foundation can choose, and for all others it's clear that this is not important to look upon. The next question is: should this be a system-wide configuration or a per-user configuration? If Xgl is selected, this just *has* to be system-wide, using Xgl without compiz doesn't make any sense at all, and is typically slower than with using compiz. OTOH with AIGLX/Native this could be a per-user option. I don't know how to solve this issue in a way that it is understandable for a typical not-too-technical user. But as most systems are run as single-user machines anyway, this is probably a no-brainer, and we should just go for system-wide settings. HTH Matthias -- Matthias Hopf __ __ __ Maxfeldstr. 5 / 90409 Nuernberg (_ | | (_ |__ mat@mshopf.de Phone +49-911-74053-715 __) |_| __) |__ R & D www.mshopf.de --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Stanislav Visnovsky

22 Mar 22 Mar

03:18

Dňa Monday 17 March 2008 08:35:00 Matthias Hopf ste napísal:

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On Mar 17, 08 12:03:46 +0100, Rodrigo Moya wrote:

...
We have now patched gnome-xgl-settings to not contain any configuration at all (it just calls ccsm for all config), so it is now just a simple frontend to gnome-xgl-switch.

O-key. Does it still test the graphics card against the database, i.e. does it verify whether Xgl / AIGLX will be able to run on this card at all?

...
I've been asking and it seems compiz users in KDE use the same ugly gnome-xgl-settings, so we've been discussing (in #opensuse-factory and -gnome) about having this functionality (calling, or doing what, gnome-xgl-switch does) in YAST. The alternatives being, a) keep gnome-xgl-settings, and b) have a per-desktop solution. For b), in GNOME we would add a 'Desktop effects' tab to the appearance capplet, like Ubuntu does

This is no in our realm, if the KDE and Gnome guys agree on having this in Yast, this would be awesome. OTOH we should be aware that with Yast we do explicitly NOT mean sax2.

Hmmm, but the only tool that configures X is SaX2. What would you propose? Stano --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

CyberOrg

25 Mar 25 Mar

09:19

On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 8:48 AM, Stanislav Visnovsky wrote:

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This is no in our realm, if the KDE and Gnome guys agree on having this in Yast, this would be awesome. OTOH we should be aware that with Yast we do explicitly NOT mean sax2.

Hmmm, but the only tool that configures X is SaX2. What would you propose?

We need something like this, preferably during installation: http://img.linuxexpres.cz/2007/05/sabayon/2.png The code for the above is GPL http://tinyurl.com/2nsq6q Regards -J --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Stefan Dirsch

09:47

On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 02:49:20PM +0530, CyberOrg wrote:

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On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 8:48 AM, Stanislav Visnovsky wrote:

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This is no in our realm, if the KDE and Gnome guys agree on having this in Yast, this would be awesome. OTOH we should be aware that with Yast we do explicitly NOT mean sax2.

Hmmm, but the only tool that configures X is SaX2. What would you propose?

We need something like this, preferably during installation:

http://img.linuxexpres.cz/2007/05/sabayon/2.png

It doesn't make sense for NVIDIA to use AIGLX/Xgl. It's just superfluous. Composite is enough. Since we enable AIGLX/Composite already by default, where we think it makes sense (intel and fglrx at the moment and Composite only for NVIDIA), we only need a tool for enabling Xgl. The advantage is that we therefore even don't need to (re)write xorg.conf. BTW, the help texts on the left side of this picture are rather bogus. Best regards, Stefan Public Key available ------------------------------------------------------ Stefan Dirsch (Res. & Dev.) SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Tel: 0911-740 53 0 Maxfeldstraße 5 FAX: 0911-740 53 479 D-90409 Nürnberg http://www.suse.de Germany ----------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) ----------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Matthias Hopf

27 Mar 27 Mar

19:12

On Mar 25, 08 10:47:10 +0100, Stefan Dirsch wrote:

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Hmmm, but the only tool that configures X is SaX2. What would you propose?

This is not about configuring X. This is about configuring Desktop Effects. People who have been here with Xgl from day one consider this X related, all others don't. Also, it has been decided already, that this is actually something for the login managers. So this can even be implemented on a per-user level.

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We need something like this, preferably during installation: http://img.linuxexpres.cz/2007/05/sabayon/2.png

It doesn't make sense for NVIDIA to use AIGLX/Xgl. It's just superfluous. Composite is enough. Since we enable AIGLX/Composite already by default, where we think it makes sense (intel and fglrx at the moment and Composite only for NVIDIA), we only need a tool for enabling Xgl. The advantage is that we therefore even don't need to (re)write xorg.conf. BTW, the help texts on the left side of this picture are rather bogus.

I would say, partially they are just plainly wrong. Except that Xgl does have a few open regressions ATM. Matthias -- Matthias Hopf , SuSE R&D, Zimmer 3.2.06, Tel. 74053-715 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

CyberOrg

19:19

On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 12:42 AM, Matthias Hopf wrote:

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On Mar 25, 08 10:47:10 +0100, Stefan Dirsch wrote:

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Hmmm, but the only tool that configures X is SaX2. What would you propose?

This is not about configuring X. This is about configuring Desktop Effects. People who have been here with Xgl from day one consider this X related, all others don't.

Also, it has been decided already, that this is actually something for the login managers. So this can even be implemented on a per-user level.

Rodrigo just informed that gnome's control-center2 will have desktop effects tab in appearance caplet which will allow users to enable/disable compiz. We still need something similar in KDE. To enable Xgl, just changing /etc/sysconfig/displaymanager DISPLAYMANAGER_XSERVER=Xgl should work? Cheers -J --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Stefan Dirsch

20:42

On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 12:49:16AM +0530, CyberOrg wrote:

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To enable Xgl, just changing /etc/sysconfig/displaymanager DISPLAYMANAGER_XSERVER=Xgl should work?

gnome-xgl-switch can be used for this. Best regards, Stefan Public Key available ------------------------------------------------------ Stefan Dirsch (Res. & Dev.) SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Tel: 0911-740 53 0 Maxfeldstraße 5 FAX: 0911-740 53 479 D-90409 Nürnberg http://www.suse.de Germany ----------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) ----------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Matthias Hopf

31 Mar 31 Mar

13:14

On Mar 28, 08 00:49:16 +0530, CyberOrg wrote:

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On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 12:42 AM, Matthias Hopf wrote:

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On Mar 25, 08 10:47:10 +0100, Stefan Dirsch wrote:

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...
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Hmmm, but the only tool that configures X is SaX2. What would you propose?

This is not about configuring X. This is about configuring Desktop Effects. People who have been here with Xgl from day one consider this X related, all others don't.

Also, it has been decided already, that this is actually something for the login managers. So this can even be implemented on a per-user level.

Rodrigo just informed that gnome's control-center2 will have desktop effects tab in appearance caplet which will allow users to enable/disable compiz. We still need something similar in KDE.

To enable Xgl, just changing /etc/sysconfig/displaymanager DISPLAYMANAGER_XSERVER=Xgl should work?

gnome-xgl-switch (which is a misnomer) has the necessary logic. In principle, this should be enough, but you might have to restart kdm/gdm/xdm (not just the Xserver). CU Matthias -- Matthias Hopf __ __ __ Maxfeldstr. 5 / 90409 Nuernberg (_ | | (_ |__ mat@mshopf.de Phone +49-911-74053-715 __) |_| __) |__ R & D www.mshopf.de --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Stefan Dirsch

25 Mar 25 Mar

09:28

On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 09:18:37PM -0600, Stanislav Visnovsky wrote:

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Dňa Monday 17 March 2008 08:35:00 Matthias Hopf ste napísal:

...
On Mar 17, 08 12:03:46 +0100, Rodrigo Moya wrote:

...
We have now patched gnome-xgl-settings to not contain any configuration at all (it just calls ccsm for all config), so it is now just a simple frontend to gnome-xgl-switch.

O-key. Does it still test the graphics card against the database, i.e. does it verify whether Xgl / AIGLX will be able to run on this card at all?

...
I've been asking and it seems compiz users in KDE use the same ugly gnome-xgl-settings, so we've been discussing (in #opensuse-factory and -gnome) about having this functionality (calling, or doing what, gnome-xgl-switch does) in YAST. The alternatives being, a) keep gnome-xgl-settings, and b) have a per-desktop solution. For b), in GNOME we would add a 'Desktop effects' tab to the appearance capplet, like Ubuntu does

This is no in our realm, if the KDE and Gnome guys agree on having this in Yast, this would be awesome. OTOH we should be aware that with Yast we do explicitly NOT mean sax2.

Hmmm, but the only tool that configures X is SaX2. What would you propose?

An additional YaST module. Best regards, Stefan Public Key available ------------------------------------------------------ Stefan Dirsch (Res. & Dev.) SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Tel: 0911-740 53 0 Maxfeldstraße 5 FAX: 0911-740 53 479 D-90409 Nürnberg http://www.suse.de Germany ----------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) ----------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

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CyberOrg
JP Rosevear
Martin Schlander
Matthias Hopf
Rodrigo Moya
Stanislav Visnovsky
Stefan Dirsch