[opensuse-factory] YOU userfriendliness - "YaST crashed" false reports
Hi, this is just a little bit of feedback or a notification about something you might already know, but maybe it's not clear enough: The new way YOU behaves is confusing and causes many, many false bug reports in user forums. YOU used to display to-be-installed patches only in the past. Now it displays all patches, even the already installed ones and the ones which don't apply at all: - To-be-installed patches have a black sign in the checkbox, already installed ones have a dark blue sign. Many users cannot distinguish them and report in user forums: "YaST crashed" if YOU exits without doing anything because all patches are already installed. - Patches which don't apply to a system, e.g. because the base packages are not installed at all, are visible in the patches selection. Many users do not understand this and report in user forums: "YaST does not select critical security patches for me". Then they select the patches, which results in MySQL, Postgresql etc. being installed on desktop systems. - Sometimes both things are even combined: A user selects all patches, even those that don't apply to his system at all, installs them, goes back to YOU, notices the dark blue signs, concludes that the patches are not installed and then repeats the procedure again, again and again - but YOU doesn't do anything because the patches are already installed. The resulting problem report is: "YaST does not install patches and crashes all the time". This is not a request to change things, I just want to make sure that you know what's going on out there. Together with the common impression that "package management doesn't work in 10.1", the result is that people make very fast conclusions and consider things as "not working" or "crashed" even if they are working just fine. Andreas Hanke --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory-help@opensuse.org
YOU used to display to-be-installed patches only in the past. Now it displays all patches, even the already installed ones and the ones which don't apply at all:
Yes, I needed a double-take on the different tick marks too. I don't think it's a good idea tp show that as default. Also previously there was a selection field for "show all available patches", "show all installable patches" and "show appliccable patches only", or something to that effect. I think that was a very good idea. And do start with the third of those settings, I'd imagine people are most interested in what they should be installing next, rather than what they could be doing if only they had that software X on their disk, or what they installed already yesterday. Yes, this is a change suggestion :) Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann is list0570 with the domain in header http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory-help@opensuse.org
Volker Kuhlmann wrote:
Yes, I needed a double-take on the different tick marks too.
I just take a look at YOU, and the color/tick use is not understandable and the help don't help :-( the color meaning is not given (at least I didn't find the meaning), the help say the tick mean "need to be installed", but ticked pathches are not installed (or are already installed) this should be cleared out jddd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory-help@opensuse.org
Dňa Po 12. Jún 2006 08:39 jdd napísal:
Volker Kuhlmann wrote:
Yes, I needed a double-take on the different tick marks too.
I just take a look at YOU, and the color/tick use is not understandable and the help don't help :-(
the color meaning is not given (at least I didn't find the meaning), the help say the tick mean "need to be installed", but ticked pathches are not installed (or are already installed)
this should be cleared out
We are looking into this. Please, consider it to be another "rough edge" introduced by ZYPP. Functionality was first to be cleaned up... Stano --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory-help@opensuse.org
Stanislav Visnovsky wrote:
Dňa Po 12. Jún 2006 08:39 jdd napísal:
Volker Kuhlmann wrote:
Yes, I needed a double-take on the different tick marks too.
I just take a look at YOU, and the color/tick use is not understandable and the help don't help :-(
the color meaning is not given (at least I didn't find the meaning), the help say the tick mean "need to be installed", but ticked pathches are not installed (or are already installed)
this should be cleared out
We are looking into this. Please, consider it to be another "rough edge" introduced by ZYPP. Functionality was first to be cleaned up...
Stano
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no problem, discussion can continue on bugzilla (not really discussion, but adding facts) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory-help@opensuse.org
Hi, Volker Kuhlmann schrieb:
Also previously there was a selection field for "show all available patches", "show all installable patches" and "show appliccable patches only", or something to that effect. I think that was a very good idea.
Good proposal... I'm currently thinking a bit about how to improve the UI here. Actually I think that different colours and different symbols won't work, even if they are better distinguishable. They would still be confusing. Not showing unapplicable patches at all by default is the most promising approach IMHO. There are several ways to achieve that: - Use a drop-down menu, as suggested by Volker. The advantage is that it resembles what we had in 10.0. So it's familiar to those who used 10.0 and OK for those who start with 10.1. The disadvantage is that there is already a drop-down menu, the one where the user can switch between the updater and the normal installer. - Introduce some checkboxes. They could be below the left frame where the patches are shown. They could look like this: [ ] Show already installed patches [ ] Show unapplicable patches They should be unchecked by default, so less experienced people see only what they need and can basically click "Accept" all the time, but more experienced people can still access the full information. Applicable and to-be-installed patches should always be shown, of course. But the question is, what are applicable patches. Patches for installed packages are applicable. Patches for not installed packages are not applicable. But patches with no base packages in the normal installation source - like netbeans, and maybe also msttcorefonts, if they come back - are applicable. Is there a way to determine this status automatically? Another place where some improvements can be made is the way YOU exits if there is nothing to do. I'm not sure if this is still necessary after implementing something similar to the above proposal, but just in case: The "Do you want to install further stuff?" dialog from sw_single could be reused here. 10.0 didn't have that and it was OK without it, so it's just an idea how to make sure the user doesn't think that YOU crashed. Andreas Hanke --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory-help@opensuse.org
Hi, for information, today a Bugzilla ticked was submitted for this issue: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=183735 I consider this a Blocker for 10.2. It is unacceptable that YOU is in a state which many users perceive as constantly crashing. It's just too hard to use (and painful to support). Andreas Hanke --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory-help@opensuse.org
participants (4)
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Andreas Hanke -
jdd -
Stanislav Visnovsky -
Volker Kuhlmann