[opensuse-factory] Reply to:
Someone needs to add a Reply to: opensuse-factory@opensuse.org header to all the mails on this list. It gets very annoying to use without this since by default response will go back directly to the mailbox of the sender, not to the list. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 08/04/2008, Andreas van dem Helge <joakimsen@gmail.com> wrote:
Someone needs to add a Reply to: opensuse-factory@opensuse.org header to all the mails on this list. It gets very annoying to use without this since by default response will go back directly to the mailbox of the sender, not to the list.
This has been discussed (and voted upon) several times before. Better mail clients have a reply-to list feature, and the majority preferred to not have the list alter the reply-to header. Personally I would prefer having reply-to set to the list, even if it is wrong, as a lot of mail clients are broken in this respect. But the majority disagree. -- Benjamin Weber --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 08 April 2008 15:10, Andreas van dem Helge wrote:
Someone needs to add a Reply to: opensuse-factory@opensuse.org header to all the mails on this list. It gets very annoying to use without this since by default response will go back directly to the mailbox of the sender, not to the list.
If Google wants to present themselves as the premiere provider of Internet-savvy software (in this case GMail), they should damn well implement the W3C standards relevant to that software. To do otherwise undermines the very foundation of world-wide interoperability. Think of what would happen if implementors of TCP took such an attitude. There'd be no Internet, no Worldwide Web and all these issues of substandard implementations of RFC 2822 and related standards would be moot. As a Linux user, I invite you to use one of the proper implementations of a W3C-compliant Mail User Agent. I like KMail. Thunderbird is OK, too, though not personally to my taste. Randall Schulz --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 09/04/2008, Randall R Schulz <rschulz@sonic.net> wrote:
As a Linux user, I invite you to use one of the proper implementations of a W3C-compliant Mail User Agent. I like KMail. Thunderbird is OK, too, though not personally to my taste.
That is not a practical solution for people who move around a lot, don't use a single laptop, and would rather have all their mail and mail settings in one place. That's the reason I use GMail. It's also not just GMail doing this -- do any other of the major web mail providers follow this? Personally I think it's crazy to have a setting benefiting all users who can actually easily configure the behaviour (i.e. using clients like KMail, Thunderbird) to behave differently, those who would never have to put up with a constant hassle (like we do), but I'm not exactly keen on pushing this going on the previous discussions. Kind thoughts, -- Francis Giannaros http://francis.giannaros.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 08 April 2008 16:46, Francis Giannaros wrote:
On 09/04/2008, Randall R Schulz <rschulz@sonic.net> wrote:
As a Linux user, I invite you to use one of the proper implementations of a W3C-compliant Mail User Agent. I like KMail. Thunderbird is OK, too, though not personally to my taste.
That is not a practical solution for people who move around a lot, don't use a single laptop, and would rather have all their mail and mail settings in one place. That's the reason I use GMail.
Find an ISP that provides IMAP, then. And if you're "moving around a lot" and need information services, why _don't_ you have a laptop? If email is important, why do you allow yourself to be at the mercy of whatever internet-connected computer you can manage to find?
It's also not just GMail doing this -- do any other of the major web mail providers follow this? ...
Why should I care how many people or organizations do it wrong? The reason email is such a hell-hole is in part 'cause all these haphazard implementations. Randall Schulz --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 16:53 -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Tuesday 08 April 2008 16:46, Francis Giannaros wrote:
On 09/04/2008, Randall R Schulz <rschulz@sonic.net> wrote:
As a Linux user, I invite you to use one of the proper implementations of a W3C-compliant Mail User Agent. I like KMail. Thunderbird is OK, too, though not personally to my taste.
That is not a practical solution for people who move around a lot, don't use a single laptop, and would rather have all their mail and mail settings in one place. That's the reason I use GMail.
Find an ISP that provides IMAP, then. And if you're "moving around a lot" and need information services, why _don't_ you have a laptop? If email is important, why do you allow yourself to be at the mercy of whatever internet-connected computer you can manage to find?
You're limiting your perspective of use cases. I agree that imap gives flexibility. However, limiting yourself to a single laptop machine you take everywhere doesn't allow for flexibility. Some of us don't like lugging our laptops around day in and day out. In my opinion, you're more at the mercy of the laptop than at multiple machines available to you at work, home and such. Bryen --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 19:00 -0500, Bryen wrote:
ou can manage to find?
You're limiting your perspective of use cases. I agree that imap gives flexibility. However, limiting yourself to a single laptop machine you take everywhere doesn't allow for flexibility. Some of us don't like lugging our laptops around day in and day out. In my opinion, you're more at the mercy of the laptop than at multiple machines available to you at work, home and such.
How about using a crackberry... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 09/04/2008, Randall R Schulz <rschulz@sonic.net> wrote:
Find an ISP that provides IMAP, then.
Like GMail? I'm not going to synchronise something like 1GB of mails on several computers because (i) it's completely unpractical, (ii) not possible for University, (iii) unfair for others that share the computer, (iv) a hassle to set up the mail settings in several locations.
And if you're "moving around a lot" and need information services, why _don't_ you have a laptop?
I'm a student and I don't have a lot of money. If you want to donate the money to me to buy one, I promise I won't ever complain about the mailing list reply-to behaviour again. Deal?
If email is important, why do you allow yourself to be at the mercy of whatever internet-connected computer you can manage to find?
I don't understand this point at all. It's precisely _because_ email is important that I don't want to have it accessible from only one location.
Why should I care how many people or organizations do it wrong?
Because others doing it wrong means that other (innocent) people will also "have it wrong" if you keep the "right" way that doesn't make much sense, and currently only benefits those who have the power to have whatever behaviour they like. Regards, -- Francis Giannaros http://francis.giannaros.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 2008/04/08 16:53 (GMT-0700) Randall R Schulz apparently typed:
Why should I care how many people or organizations do it wrong?
The reason email is such a hell-hole is in part 'cause all these haphazard implementations.
Unless I'm mistaken after many years here, this and the opensuse list are intended to be public discussion lists, not public questions private replies lists. As such, the default behavior regardless of email access method should for replies to goto everyone, not to goto the originator of the thread or follow-ups thereto. How difficult or not it is to deviate from the default reply target should not be relevant at all. It's inane that every time this discussion resurfaces that this fundamental problem is so infrequently touched on. What mail clients do or don't do or what RFC is or is not properly implemented by which email clients are not, or at least should not be, the point discussed when noobs are baffled by the lack of reply to list not being default. -- "Either the constitution controls the judges, or the judges rewrite the constitution." Judge Robert Bork Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 08 April 2008 07:13:14 pm Felix Miata wrote:
On 2008/04/08 16:53 (GMT-0700) Randall R Schulz apparently typed:
Why should I care how many people or organizations do it wrong?
The reason email is such a hell-hole is in part 'cause all these haphazard implementations.
Unless I'm mistaken after many years here, this and the opensuse list are intended to be public discussion lists, not public questions private replies lists. As such, the default behavior regardless of email access method should for replies to goto everyone, not to goto the originator of the thread or follow-ups thereto. How difficult or not it is to deviate from the default reply target should not be relevant at all. It's inane that every time this discussion resurfaces that this fundamental problem is so infrequently touched on. What mail clients do or don't do or what RFC is or is not properly implemented by which email clients are not, or at least should not be, the point discussed when noobs are baffled by the lack of reply to list not being default.
That was one of arguments before vote that decided to use current method. Some people like to have ability to send private email, if appropriate. Though you have a point. New users with web mail from their provider may have problem. -- Regards, Rajko http://en.opensuse.org/Portal needs helpful hands. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Rajko M. schreef:
On Tuesday 08 April 2008 07:13:14 pm Felix Miata wrote:
Unless I'm mistaken after many years here, this and the opensuse list are intended to be public discussion lists, not public questions private replies lists. As such, the default behavior regardless of email access method should for replies to goto everyone, not to goto the originator of the thread or follow-ups thereto. How difficult or not it is to deviate from the default reply target should not be relevant at all. It's inane that every time this discussion resurfaces that this fundamental problem is so infrequently touched on. What mail clients do or don't do or what RFC is or is not properly implemented by which email clients are not, or at least should not be, the point discussed when noobs are baffled by the lack of reply to list not being default.
That was one of arguments before vote that decided to use current method. Some people like to have ability to send private email, if appropriate. Though you have a point. New users with web mail from their provider may have problem.
Would it be very difficult to change default to reply to list? -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 3.1" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Oddball schreef:
Rajko M. schreef:
On Tuesday 08 April 2008 07:13:14 pm Felix Miata wrote:
Unless I'm mistaken after many years here, this and the opensuse list are intended to be public discussion lists, not public questions private replies lists. As such, the default behavior regardless of email access method should for replies to goto everyone, not to goto the originator of the thread or follow-ups thereto. How difficult or not it is to deviate from the default reply target should not be relevant at all. It's inane that every time this discussion resurfaces that this fundamental problem is so infrequently touched on. What mail clients do or don't do or what RFC is or is not properly implemented by which email clients are not, or at least should not be, the point discussed when noobs are baffled by the lack of reply to list not being default.
That was one of arguments before vote that decided to use current method. Some people like to have ability to send private email, if appropriate. Though you have a point. New users with web mail from their provider may have problem.
Would it be very difficult to change default to reply to list?
I understand now i've read all the comments. The arguments against changing the defaults win. To set up a decent way to get your mail, like proposed on a flashdrive, has to be done only once. Maybe the opposers did not think of that method. I am also a little 'old school': 'If' you do something, do it 'right'. ( i donot have anything against left, i used to be left before cutting of some pieces of my finger and thumb. ;) -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.25-rc8-12-default x86_64 Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha3 KDE: 4.00.68 (KDE 4.0.68 >= 20080402) "release 3.1" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Felix Miata wrote:
On 2008/04/08 16:53 (GMT-0700) Randall R Schulz apparently typed:
Unless I'm mistaken after many years here, this and the opensuse list are intended to be public discussion lists, not public questions private replies lists. As such, the default behavior regardless of email access method should for replies to goto everyone, not to goto the originator of the thread or follow-ups thereto. How difficult or not it is to deviate from the default reply target should not be relevant at all. It's inane that every time this discussion resurfaces that this fundamental problem is so infrequently touched on. What mail clients do or don't do or what RFC is or is not properly implemented by which email clients are not, or at least should not be, the point discussed when noobs are baffled by the lack of reply to list not being default.
Amen!! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Those who are REAL annoyed with GMail's lack of a "Reply to list" option might consider suggesting this feature to the people at Google/Gmail http://mail.google.com/support/bin/request.py?contact_type=suggest --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi, On Tuesday, April 08, 2008 at 20:13:14, Felix Miata wrote:
How difficult or not it is to deviate from the default reply target should not be relevant at all.
Very wise spoken. The other matter in this discussion is already decided on: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2006-08/msg00438.html End of Thread Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
* Francis Giannaros <francis@opensuse.org> [04-08-08 19:48]:
On 09/04/2008, Randall R Schulz <rschulz@sonic.net> wrote:
As a Linux user, I invite you to use one of the proper implementations of a W3C-compliant Mail User Agent. I like KMail. Thunderbird is OK, too, though not personally to my taste.
That is not a practical solution for people who move around a lot, don't use a single laptop, and would rather have all their mail and mail settings in one place. That's the reason I use GMail.
Sure it is. I pop email and access my home computer from anywhere that I want to see my email. Also, this way, I use *my* choice of email client rather than gmail's :^) -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 09/04/2008, Patrick Shanahan <ptilopteri@gmail.com> wrote:
* Francis Giannaros <francis@opensuse.org> [04-08-08 19:48]:
On 09/04/2008, Randall R Schulz <rschulz@sonic.net> wrote:
As a Linux user, I invite you to use one of the proper implementations of a W3C-compliant Mail User Agent. I like KMail. Thunderbird is OK, too, though not personally to my taste.
That is not a practical solution for people who move around a lot, don't use a single laptop, and would rather have all their mail and mail settings in one place. That's the reason I use GMail.
Sure it is. I pop email and access my home computer from anywhere that I want to see my email. Also, this way, I use *my* choice of email client rather than gmail's :^)
See below for more of an explanation, POP is not good for me because I heavily rely on filters and folders/labels. I also really like GMail apart from this little behaviour (and the thread-breaking on title-change). Kind thoughts, -- Francis Giannaros http://francis.giannaros.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
* Francis Giannaros <francis@opensuse.org> [04-08-08 20:08]:
See below for more of an explanation,
but there is nothing below...
POP is not good for me because I heavily rely on filters and folders/labels.
that's what procmail is for. I also rely heavily on filters...
I also really like GMail apart from this little behaviour (and the thread-breaking on title-change).
And GMail still has all of my mail which has passed thru :^) and may be accessed from anywhere via http -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 09/04/2008, Patrick Shanahan <ptilopteri@gmail.com> wrote:
* Francis Giannaros <francis@opensuse.org> [04-08-08 20:08]:
See below for more of an explanation,
but there is nothing below...
Or above, rather -- I was referring to my other email.
POP is not good for me because I heavily rely on filters and folders/labels.
that's what procmail is for. I also rely heavily on filters...
Which means I'll have to set up my mail settings in multiple locations -- that's a big hassle for me. I don't consider POP a solution at all. Procmail is also not an option on restricted computers at University.
I also really like GMail apart from this little behaviour (and the thread-breaking on title-change).
And GMail still has all of my mail which has passed thru :^) and may be accessed from anywhere via http
And then I'm using yet another place for getting to my email, when I want to centralise and have it in one location, with all my settings in one place. Not changing it every time I go to a new place, and not wasting hours setting up the same settings in multiple places, and then changing them for multiple locations each time, etc. Kind thoughts, -- Francis Giannaros http://francis.giannaros.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
* Francis Giannaros <francis@opensuse.org> [04-08-08 20:26]:
On 09/04/2008, Patrick Shanahan <ptilopteri@gmail.com> wrote:
that's what procmail is for. I also rely heavily on filters...
Which means I'll have to set up my mail settings in multiple locations -- that's a big hassle for me. I don't consider POP a solution at all. Procmail is also not an option on restricted computers at University.
And GMail still has all of my mail which has passed thru :^) and may be accessed from anywhere via http
And then I'm using yet another place for getting to my email, when I want to centralise and have it in one location, with all my settings in one place. Not changing it every time I go to a new place, and not wasting hours setting up the same settings in multiple places, and then changing them for multiple locations each time, etc.
My email is maintained in *one* location, filters and all, my home computer which is accessable from anywhere via ssh. You are making it hard for no reason. -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 09/04/2008, Patrick Shanahan <ptilopteri@gmail.com> wrote:
* Francis Giannaros <francis@opensuse.org> [04-08-08 20:26]:
On 09/04/2008, Patrick Shanahan <ptilopteri@gmail.com> wrote:
that's what procmail is for. I also rely heavily on filters...
Which means I'll have to set up my mail settings in multiple locations -- that's a big hassle for me. I don't consider POP a solution at all. Procmail is also not an option on restricted computers at University.
And GMail still has all of my mail which has passed thru :^) and may be accessed from anywhere via http
And then I'm using yet another place for getting to my email, when I want to centralise and have it in one location, with all my settings in one place. Not changing it every time I go to a new place, and not wasting hours setting up the same settings in multiple places, and then changing them for multiple locations each time, etc.
My email is maintained in *one* location, filters and all, my home computer which is accessable from anywhere via ssh. You are making it hard for no reason.
No, I don't want to use any CLI email client (like most of the world) which is what I presume you're referring to. That method works fine for you -- it (POP, CLI email client, huge waste of time setting up procmail) emphatically does not work for me. Regards, -- Francis Giannaros http://francis.giannaros.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
* Francis Giannaros <francis@opensuse.org> [04-08-08 20:50]:
No, I don't want to use any CLI email client (like most of the world) which is what I presume you're referring to. That method works fine for you -- it (POP, CLI email client, huge waste of time setting up procmail) emphatically does not work for me.
ssh -X and you can use your mouse :^) -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 08 April 2008 07:52:42 pm Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Francis Giannaros <francis@opensuse.org> [04-08-08 20:50]:
No, I don't want to use any CLI email client (like most of the world) which is what I presume you're referring to. That method works fine for you -- it (POP, CLI email client, huge waste of time setting up procmail) emphatically does not work for me.
ssh -X
and you can use your mouse :^)
http://en.opensuse.org/SSH_Tunnels_from_Microsoft_Windows is probably answer on next question, though it can be problem if Francis can't install anything on college computers. Than GMail is the only solution. -- Regards, Rajko http://en.opensuse.org/Portal needs helpful hands. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
* Rajko M. <rmatov101@charter.net> [04-08-08 21:07]:
http://en.opensuse.org/SSH_Tunnels_from_Microsoft_Windows is probably answer on next question, though it can be problem if Francis can't install anything on college computers. Than GMail is the only solution.
Well, not quite. I carry a thumb/flash drive with xming on it. It is completely contained within the flash drive and runs on windoz boxes with a usb port. Provides a portable putty with X capability. Plug in it and access my home computer :^) There is *no* reason to be stuck with web mail when you can serve your own from home... -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 20:41 -0400, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
My email is maintained in *one* location, filters and all, my home computer which is accessable from anywhere via ssh. You are making it hard for no reason.
OK, I have 2 questions: 1) Why is this being discussed on the Factory mailinglist? Isn't this something for opensuse-project? 2) Do you seriously think most users, even those subscribing to a mailinglist, would seriously set up ssh to access their email, when free webmail is so much easier? -- Kevin "Yo" Dupuy | Public Mail <kevin.dupuy@opensuse.org> | Yo.media: 225-590-5961 Swift Change for a Green Future: Kat Swift for President www.VoteSwift.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 08 April 2008 19:15, Kevin Dupuy wrote:
On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 20:41 -0400, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
My email is maintained in *one* location, filters and all, my home computer which is accessable from anywhere via ssh. You are making it hard for no reason.
OK, I have 2 questions:
1) Why is this being discussed on the Factory mailinglist? Isn't this something for opensuse-project?
It cuts across all mailing lists (SuSE and beyond).
2) Do you seriously think most users, even those subscribing to a mailinglist, would seriously set up ssh to access their email, when free webmail is so much easier?
Easy is often wrong. In this case, it most certainly is. If central authorities (such as those that manage this list) continue to give in to this sort of degradation of practice, we'll end up with mush. I applaud Henne V. who refuses to succumb to these slothful user requests. Most lists capitulate to this crap, and they're predictably crappy. Worse than the Reply-To crap is the thread hijacking crap. Those whose mailers implement the pertinent standards relating to threading get mailboxes full of this crap while users of GMail and Outlook / Outlook Express are ignorant of the chaos they perpetrate. I have to deal with people who say "Start a new thread: All you have to do is use 'Reply' and then change the Subject." !! Gag me! The SuSE lists used to demand a higher standard, but in the past few years that has changed. People like me and Patrick S. who wish to maintain standards, both civil and technological, are losing the battle. Sad, but true. This crap is why I now advocate the use of bulletin-board-style forums instead of mailing lists. Randall Schulz --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 8 Apr 2008, Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Tuesday 08 April 2008 19:15, Kevin Dupuy wrote:
On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 20:41 -0400, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
My email is maintained in *one* location, filters and all, my home computer which is accessable from anywhere via ssh. You are making it hard for no reason.
OK, I have 2 questions:
1) Why is this being discussed on the Factory mailinglist? Isn't this something for opensuse-project?
It cuts across all mailing lists (SuSE and beyond).
I am on over 150 email lists and only two have the broken method you want. I really want it to stay the way it is. I use ssh and flash drives for accessing from other computers. I do not want to install anything on other computers. Also, I do not trust them. I want everything encrypted and trusted. This open web is easy access you your systems.
2) Do you seriously think most users, even those subscribing to a mailinglist, would seriously set up ssh to access their email, when free webmail is so much easier?
Easier? not really, I have to use insecure web program that maybe infected, Not as easy as having a flash driver with everything needed configures, secured and using the same program every where. I can also send a private email when necessary. A lot better thought-out and useful method.
Easy is often wrong. In this case, it most certainly is. If central authorities (such as those that manage this list) continue to give in to this sort of degradation of practice, we'll end up with mush. I applaud Henne V. who refuses to succumb to these slothful user requests.
Most lists capitulate to this crap, and they're predictably crappy. Worse than the Reply-To crap is the thread hijacking crap. Those whose mailers implement the pertinent standards relating to threading get mailboxes full of this crap while users of GMail and Outlook / Outlook Express are ignorant of the chaos they perpetrate. I have to deal with people who say "Start a new thread: All you have to do is use 'Reply' and then change the Subject." !! Gag me!
+2 I agrees totally.
The SuSE lists used to demand a higher standard, but in the past few years that has changed. People like me and Patrick S. who wish to maintain standards, both civil and technological, are losing the battle.
Sad, but true.
+1 You not the only one's. We really need to maintain the standards if we are going to get email fixed. Until it is fixed it will be bug/spam ridden.
This crap is why I now advocate the use of bulletin-board-style forums instead of mailing lists.
I understand that, I prefer gated forums, so those of us that do not want to be on the forum with a browser do not have to be, I have everything filtered into the folders I want. I do not really want to go to a method that has so many problems and breaks standards. So I am very against any change to the current behavior. -- Boyd Gerber <gerberb@zenez.com> ZENEZ 1042 East Fort Union #135, Midvale Utah 84047 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 09 April 2008, Francis Giannaros wrote:
On 09/04/2008, Randall R Schulz <rschulz@sonic.net> wrote:
As a Linux user, I invite you to use one of the proper implementations of a W3C-compliant Mail User Agent. I like KMail. Thunderbird is OK, too, though not personally to my taste.
That is not a practical solution for people who move around a lot, don't use a single laptop, and would rather have all their mail and mail settings in one place. That's the reason I use GMail.
It's also not just GMail doing this -- do any other of the major web mail providers follow this? Personally I think it's crazy to have a setting benefiting all users who can actually easily configure the behaviour (i.e. using clients like KMail, Thunderbird) to behave differently, those who would never have to put up with a constant hassle (like we do), but I'm not exactly keen on pushing this going on the previous discussions.
Kind thoughts,
If you will insist on using a web based mailer what can you expect but wondows type behaviour of do it my way or not at all .. Web mail is great for filtering out the bulk spam for you ie yahoo ect but as for a usable mail system forget it . Kmail works very well , Thunderbird works not my cup of tea thou . What you have to remember is this is a Linux mailing list the vast majority of us are using Linux systems to read/send mail we are NOT about to start conforming to some other failed standard just because you can sit back and look then think and work a way of making your chosen FAULTY mailer of choice conform .. Pete . -- SuSE Linux 10.3-Alpha3. (Linux is like a wigwam - no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
2008/4/9, peter nikolic <p.nikolic1@btinternet.com>:
If you will insist on using a web based mailer what can you expect but wondows type behaviour of do it my way or not at all .. Web mail is great for filtering out the bulk spam for you ie yahoo ect but as for a usable mail system forget it .
Kmail works very well , Thunderbird works not my cup of tea thou .
What you have to remember is this is a Linux mailing list the vast majority of us are using Linux systems to read/send mail we are NOT about to start conforming to some other failed standard just because you can sit back and look then think and work a way of making your chosen FAULTY mailer of choice conform ..
It it possible to be more pragmatic on this issue? Can it be an option in the mailinglist SW that could be sent in as a command? Another thing I wonder about , is something going "wrong" in the mailnglist if "Reply to all" is used when answering on the mailing list. Birger
From the Gmail client as that is the ONLY available where I'm located just now.
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On Wednesday 09 April 2008, Birger Kollstrand wrote:
2008/4/9, peter nikolic <p.nikolic1@btinternet.com>:
If you will insist on using a web based mailer what can you expect but wondows type behaviour of do it my way or not at all .. Web mail is great for filtering out the bulk spam for you ie yahoo ect but as for a usable mail system forget it .
Kmail works very well , Thunderbird works not my cup of tea thou .
What you have to remember is this is a Linux mailing list the vast majority of us are using Linux systems to read/send mail we are NOT about to start conforming to some other failed standard just because you can sit back and look then think and work a way of making your chosen FAULTY mailer of choice conform ..
It it possible to be more pragmatic on this issue? Can it be an option in the mailinglist SW that could be sent in as a command?
Another thing I wonder about , is something going "wrong" in the mailnglist if "Reply to all" is used when answering on the mailing list.
Birger
From the Gmail client as that is the ONLY available where I'm located just now. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Errr Reply to all does just that replies to all ,, but surley if you are using a Mailing list such as this then you replt to the Mailing list that should be sifficent for the vast majority of people .. . And even the most crappy of mailers ihave looked at can reply to almost any address so where's the problem just entering the list address in the to field This has been done to death several times on this list it is about time it is let alone the list works very nicley thank you as is Kmail works a treat A Linux / KDE based mail client it is a LINUX List nuff said do we have to keep having the windBloWs brigade whittering on about the crappy way there junk behaves and trying to force this listy to change i think not . let sleeping dogs lie .. Pete . -- SuSE Linux 10.3-Alpha3. (Linux is like a wigwam - no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 16:33 -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Tuesday 08 April 2008 15:10, Andreas van dem Helge wrote:
Someone needs to add a Reply to: opensuse-factory@opensuse.org header to all the mails on this list. It gets very annoying to use without this since by default response will go back directly to the mailbox of the sender, not to the list.
If Google wants to present themselves as the premiere provider of Internet-savvy software (in this case GMail), they should damn well implement the W3C standards relevant to that software.
To do otherwise undermines the very foundation of world-wide interoperability. Think of what would happen if implementors of TCP took such an attitude. There'd be no Internet, no Worldwide Web and all these issues of substandard implementations of RFC 2822 and related standards would be moot.
As a Linux user, I invite you to use one of the proper implementations of a W3C-compliant Mail User Agent. I like KMail. Thunderbird is OK, too, though not personally to my taste.
Randall Schulz
To add to this, Evolution also supports Reply-to-List with Ctrl+L. Bryen --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
participants (17)
-
Andreas van dem Helge -
Benji Weber -
Birger Kollstrand -
Boyd Lynn Gerber -
Bryen -
Felix Miata -
Francis Giannaros -
Hans Witvliet -
Henne Vogelsang -
Kevin Dupuy -
Oddball -
Patrick Shanahan -
peter nikolic -
Rajko M. -
Randall R Schulz -
Razi Khaja -
Richard Creighton