[opensuse-factory] zypper dup 12.2 -> 13.1 fail
I upgraded a machine yesterday via "zypper dup" from 12.2 -> 13.1. Several things went wrong. Instead of creating a bunch of bugs in bugzilla (which I don't have time for anyway) and having half of them be irrelevant, already fixed, etc. I thought I'd run these issues by the mailing list first in case anyone wants to step up to investigate. An edited log of the upgrade is here: http://pastebin.com/YYr9gGT7 Note, "Installing" lines are only shown for those RPMs that spit out errors. Problems are listed in order of severity most to least... Problem #1: After the upgrade, /boot/grub/menu.lst was empty (contained zero choices). In other words, zypper left my system in an unbootable state. I have no idea why this happened. Fortunately I had a backup which I edited to match the new kernel and installed before rebooting. Problem #2: The upgrade hung during "Installing rtkit-0.11_git201205151338-5.2.1" The stuck process was: dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest=org.freedesktop.DBus / org.freedesktop.DBus.ReloadConfig > /dev/null 2>&1 I had to kill -9 this process in order to get zypper running again. Problem #3: Several mkinitrd's failed due to "plymouth: symbol lookup error: plymouth: undefined symbol: ply_logger_is_tracing_enabled" Several RPMs run the mkinitrd stuff in %post. At first these worked, then they started failing with the above error, and then later they started working again once plymouth had been installed. Perhaps there is a missing Requires(post): dependency? Problem #4: Multiple errors of the form "/etc/init.d/foo: No such file or directory" For example: Installing: at-3.1.13-5.4.1 .... /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.DPrmiC: line 8: /etc/init.d/atd: No such file or directory Problem #5: Lots and lots of other random errors in various %post scripts. See the log... http://pastebin.com/YYr9gGT7 -Archie -- Archie L. Cobbs -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 4:56 PM, Archie Cobbs <archie@dellroad.org> wrote:
I upgraded a machine yesterday via "zypper dup" from 12.2 -> 13.1.
Several things went wrong.
Instead of creating a bunch of bugs in bugzilla (which I don't have time for anyway) and having half of them be irrelevant, already fixed, etc. I thought I'd run these issues by the mailing list first in case anyone wants to step up to investigate.
Archie, sometimes you can skip a release like you are trying, but it is never supported via zypper dup. The only supported method via zypper is to update 12.2 => 12.3; zypper patch; 12.3 => 13.1 I think it is supported to go straight from 12.2 => 13.1 if you use the DVD, but I'm not sure. In fact, if you have BtrFS for the system drive, I'm sure that too will fail. An example: == Problem #2: The upgrade hung during "Installing rtkit-0.11_git201205151338-5.2.1" The stuck process was: dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest=org.freedesktop.DBus / org.freedesktop.DBus.ReloadConfig > /dev/null 2>&1 I had to kill -9 this process in order to get zypper running again. == Known bug. The solution was released as a 12.3 patch. Since you were upgrading without that patch installed, you got bit. Greg -- Greg Freemyer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Greg Freemyer <greg.freemyer@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 4:56 PM, Archie Cobbs <archie@dellroad.org> wrote:
I upgraded a machine yesterday via "zypper dup" from 12.2 -> 13.1.
Several things went wrong.
Archie, sometimes you can skip a release like you are trying, but it is never supported via zypper dup.
Well that explains a lot :) That's a nice booby trap. Hey, I just had an idea. How about zypper not letting you do this? Or at least giving a warning? Or at least documenting that this is not supported in the man page? Or at least putting a warning on the "SDB:System upgrade" wiki page? (actually I just submitted that) -Archie -- Archie L. Cobbs -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Hi, I did the same you did without reading the 12.3 release notes so I skipped a couple of interesting steps that would have helped me. Skipping a version do not mean you can skip the release notes. That is the lesson I learned. On Thursday 05 December 2013 17:08:46 Archie Cobbs wrote:
On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Greg Freemyer <greg.freemyer@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 4:56 PM, Archie Cobbs <archie@dellroad.org> wrote:
I upgraded a machine yesterday via "zypper dup" from 12.2 -> 13.1.
Several things went wrong.
Archie, sometimes you can skip a release like you are trying, but it is never supported via zypper dup.
Well that explains a lot :)
That's a nice booby trap. Hey, I just had an idea.
How about zypper not letting you do this?
Or at least giving a warning?
Or at least documenting that this is not supported in the man page?
Or at least putting a warning on the "SDB:System upgrade" wiki page? (actually I just submitted that)
-Archie
-- Agustin Benito Bethencourt openSUSE Team Lead at SUSE abebe@suse.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 El 2013-12-05 a las 17:08 -0600, Archie Cobbs escribió:
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 17:08:46 -0600 From: Archie Cobbs <archie@dellroad.org> Reply-To: OS-fctry <opensuse-factory@opensuse.org> To: OS-fctry <opensuse-factory@opensuse.org> Subject: Re: [opensuse-factory] zypper dup 12.2 -> 13.1 fail
On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Greg Freemyer <greg.freemyer@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 4:56 PM, Archie Cobbs <archie@dellroad.org> wrote:
I upgraded a machine yesterday via "zypper dup" from 12.2 -> 13.1.
Several things went wrong.
Archie, sometimes you can skip a release like you are trying, but it is never supported via zypper dup.
Well that explains a lot :)
That's a nice booby trap. Hey, I just had an idea.
How about zypper not letting you do this?
Or at least giving a warning?
Or at least documenting that this is not supported in the man page?
Or at least putting a warning on the "SDB:System upgrade" wiki page? (actually I just submitted that)
It is: «Starting with openSUSE 11.2, a live upgrade from the prior version is officially supported.» It says "from the prior version". It should be clearer, but it is there :-} - -- Cheers Carlos E. R. (from 11.4, with Evergreen, x86_64 "Celadon" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlKiUsYACgkQja8UbcUWM1xgQgD/bN2tLmhcjC83Fpqyai8dZ9nU NRHpOWC39ZlYA55k60oA/1rqdaQcOsn+x7JNcvcKyBxFAmorAEMNFbp9Uo4qw+4w =2Oij -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
I upgraded a machine yesterday via "zypper dup" from 12.2 -> 13.1.
Several things went wrong.
That's a nice booby trap. Hey, I just had an idea.
How about zypper not letting you do this?
Or at least giving a warning?
Or at least documenting that this is not supported in the man page?
Or at least putting a warning on the "SDB:System upgrade" wiki page? (actually I just submitted that)
It is:
«Starting with openSUSE 11.2, a live upgrade from the prior version is officially supported.»
It says "from the prior version". It should be clearer, but it is there :-}
Right... You help prove my point, which is that this is pathetically inadequate. The fact that nobody seems to care does not inspire confidence... -Archie -- Archie L. Cobbs -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
* Archie Cobbs <archie@dellroad.org> [12-06-13 18:13]:
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Carlos E. R. [...]
«Starting with openSUSE 11.2, a live upgrade from the prior version is officially supported.»
It says "from the prior version". It should be clearer, but it is there :-}
Right... You help prove my point, which is that this is pathetically inadequate.
The fact that nobody seems to care does not inspire confidence...
Amazing. Please assume *responsibility*. It is not the world's fault that you fail[ed] to read the release notes. Or even the multitude of posts in this forum where it has been *repeatedly* announced that while sometimes an upgrade beyond the next version is successful, it is not recommend or supported. You *do* read where you post? It is *your* own fault, assume the blame! -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Patrick Shanahan <paka@opensuse.org> wrote:
* Archie Cobbs <archie@dellroad.org> [12-06-13 18:13]:
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Carlos E. R. [...]
«Starting with openSUSE 11.2, a live upgrade from the prior version is officially supported.»
It says "from the prior version". It should be clearer, but it is there :-}
Right... You help prove my point, which is that this is pathetically inadequate.
The fact that nobody seems to care does not inspire confidence...
Amazing. Please assume *responsibility*. It is not the world's fault that you fail[ed] to read the release notes. Or even the multitude of posts in this forum where it has been *repeatedly* announced that while sometimes an upgrade beyond the next version is successful, it is not recommend or supported. You *do* read where you post?
It is *your* own fault, assume the blame!
I have always accepted complete responsibility - after all, the software is free and you get what you pay for, right? That was never the issue. The point I'm trying to make: I don't know who is in charge of the openSUSE project's "mission" or whatever (I'm just a lowly user), but if the goal is to be a distribution where you have to be in a special club and know all the secrets to be successful, then let's keep doing what we're doing. On the other hand, if the goal includes doing things to attract new users who are not already openSUSE experts, the project has a problems. In particular, allowing people to perform upgrades that leave their systems unbootable - even if they are so outrageous as to not read the release notes - is not helping that cause. -Archie -- Archie L. Cobbs -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2013-12-07 00:45, Archie Cobbs wrote:
On the other hand, if the goal includes doing things to attract new users who are not already openSUSE experts, the project has a problems. In particular, allowing people to perform upgrades that leave their systems unbootable - even if they are so outrageous as to not read the release notes - is not helping that cause.
Then create bugzillas about those issues you find. Those instructions are a wiki, you can enter the discussion page, or add the information yourself (it has to be accepted by the supervisor group). There are very few people writing those articles, help is needed. I try to keep track of those I write, but the online update page is not one of them. I do the offline upgrade one, and I need to find time to add things to it. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4, with Evergreen, x86_64 "Celadon" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iF4EAREIAAYFAlKiZ48ACgkQja8UbcUWM1xkLQD9Fdu5ocHPgfwX8FVVMqb/+Cg7 aUjQD6Xy7Wsz4wpkpAMA/2UR18FANKcd4IhL3Z7MCZ03xdY9+9+a39NRYiOxpVG5 =nzr2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 6:10 PM, Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
Then create bugzillas about those issues you find.
As mentioned, I want to but wanted to run them by the list first. Several have already been reported (as expected).
Those instructions are a wiki, you can enter the discussion page, or add the information yourself (it has to be accepted by the supervisor group). There are very few people writing those articles, help is needed. I try to keep track of those I write, but the online update page is not one of them. I do the offline upgrade one, and I need to find time to add things to it.
I already did submit a wiki change as mentioned in the OP. As for updating the zypper man page, here's pull request: https://github.com/openSUSE/zypper/pull/42 As for altering the behavior of zypper itself, that's currently beyond my ability (and would probably just annoy the zypper developers). But I think this is an important and very needed addition. -Archie -- Archie L. Cobbs -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-12-07 03:43, Archie Cobbs wrote:
As for altering the behavior of zypper itself, that's currently beyond my ability (and would probably just annoy the zypper developers). But I think this is an important and very needed addition.
You can use bugzilla with the feature request status, or enter a feature request at <https://features.opensuse.org/> -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
On Saturday 2013-12-07 00:45, Archie Cobbs wrote:
if the goal is to be a distribution where you have to be in a special club and know all the secrets to be successful
Yes, we'll admit, you need passport A38 to make proper use of it… Just like you need a driver's license and knowledge in handling a particular vehicle to be succesful in using that. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am 07.12.2013 00:22, schrieb Patrick Shanahan:
It is *your* own fault, assume the blame!
While this is certainly one view of the issue, there is another one: Could we do something in our software to avoid this happening? Zypper recognizing that it is going to da version update and checking the versions if they are "compatible" for updating, and if not issuing a BIG FAT HONKING WARNING! I have no idea how this could be implemented, but it is maybe something to think about. -- Stefan Seyfried "If your lighter runs out of fluid or flint and stops making fire, and you can't be bothered to figure out about lighter fluid or flint, that is not Zippo's fault." -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
In data sabato 07 dicembre 2013 10:27:09, Stefan Seyfried ha scritto:
Am 07.12.2013 00:22, schrieb Patrick Shanahan:
It is *your* own fault, assume the blame!
While this is certainly one view of the issue, there is another one:
Could we do something in our software to avoid this happening?
Zypper recognizing that it is going to da version update and checking the versions if they are "compatible" for updating, and if not issuing a BIG FAT HONKING WARNING!
I have no idea how this could be implemented, but it is maybe something to think about.
I think that at first we need rpm transaction. This for clean installation and for avoid some issue. Than, what about a script/software called after zypper dup that takes care of special things that need to be done/checked/fixed ? An upgrade package that check OS version and do the needed stuff at least for fixing known issue. This package could be extendend at each release so you could support upgrade from more release. I mean: upgrade from x.x to x.x+1 call upgrade-x.x-x.x+1.sh upgrade from x.x to x.x+2 call upgrade-x.x--x.x-x.x+1.sh and upgrade- x.x--x.x-x.x+2.sh Clearly should be smart enough to do thing only if needed and only one time. Just an idea, I don't known if really doable... Daniele. -- *** Linux user # 198661 ---_ ICQ 33500725 *** *** Home http://www.kailed.net *** *** Powered by openSUSE *** -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2013-12-07 13:38, Daniele wrote:
Than, what about a script/software called after zypper dup that takes care of special things that need to be done/checked/fixed ?
An upgrade package that check OS version and do the needed stuff at least for fixing known issue. This package could be extendend at each release so you could support upgrade from more release.
Not after, but before and after. Or instead of zypper dup, so that you tell it the version to upgrade to, it takes care of changing the repos, and of known issues.
I mean: upgrade from x.x to x.x+1 call upgrade-x.x-x.x+1.sh upgrade from x.x to x.x+2 call upgrade-x.x--x.x-x.x+1.sh and upgrade- x.x--x.x-x.x+2.sh
Yes, something like that. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlKjF5MACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XrWQCfS1v7N2lVZUm3lcS1XqKS8q2j LbIAnioHiWArf9wmxXVADqEvOhaecIw/ =EzpD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 12/6/2013 3:22 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
It is *your* own fault, assume the blame!
Having to read release notes on points to beware of is a fault of whoever created the "gotchas". One shouldn't have to wonder how many ways they wll be screwed updating, that aren't in the out-of-date release notes that are available before the upgrade. The idea is to make the computers "user friendly". Not blame the user for not having read some arcane document that they've never seen nor heard of. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-12-08 10:36, Linda Walsh wrote:
On 12/6/2013 3:22 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
The idea is to make the computers "user friendly".
Not blame the user for not having read some arcane document that they've never seen nor heard of.
Indeed yes, that's their duty as admins - not users. >:-) (a system upgrade is the task of the admin) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
On 12/8/2013 5:39 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2013-12-08 10:36, Linda Walsh wrote:
On 12/6/2013 3:22 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
The idea is to make the computers "user friendly".
Not blame the user for not having read some arcane document that they've never seen nor heard of.
Indeed yes, that's their duty as admins - not users. >:-)
(a system upgrade is the task of the admin)
I don't see MS advertising or claiming that upgrading to Win 8 is something only a professional should try (nor similar coming from apple). I see this as a problem w/linux. It shouldn't require an admin to update it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-12-08 19:37 (GMT-0800) L.A. Walsh composed:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
Indeed yes, that's their duty as admins - not users. >:-) (a system upgrade is the task of the admin)
I don't see MS advertising or claiming that upgrading to Win 8 is something only a professional should try (nor similar coming from apple).
I see this as a problem w/linux. It shouldn't require an admin to update it.
It doesn't, but it does require appropriate documentation. Zypper and the DVD have weaknesses, but enough strength between them to do a good job. M$ doesn't fill up its installation media with a subset of a whole world of FOSS applications, unlike a Linux DVD, so has an easier job to do. So to overcome the weakness that is the application subset, Linux DVD installation needs the same installation sources configured that zypper has access to, with which the technology on the DVD absent from zypper can be used. IOW, either all the repos available need to be provided on installation or supplemental media, or the deficiency needs to be made up via internet access during installation. Or to make it easy, just use the boot iso (or the linux and initrd it contains) and do the whole upgrade with YaST over the internet, with its access to all repos. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-12-09 05:16, Felix Miata wrote:
It doesn't, but it does require appropriate documentation. Zypper and the DVD have weaknesses, but enough strength between them to do a good job. M$ doesn't fill up its installation media with a subset of a whole world of FOSS applications, unlike a Linux DVD, so has an easier job to do. So to overcome the weakness that is the application subset, Linux DVD installation needs the same installation sources configured that zypper has access to, with which the technology on the DVD absent from zypper can be used. IOW, either all the repos available need to be provided on installation or supplemental media, or the deficiency needs to be made up via internet access during installation. Or to make it easy, just use the boot iso (or the linux and initrd it contains) and do the whole upgrade with YaST over the internet, with its access to all repos.
No, unfortunately you can not use the internet repos during a DVD upgrade, at least not last time I tried. Reason: it downloads everything from internet, giving preference to the online repos against the DVD. This is an absolute NO-NO if you have a slow network, which is precisely one of the reasons for using the DVD in the first place. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
On Mon, Dec 09, 2013 at 01:11:56PM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
No, unfortunately you can not use the internet repos during a DVD upgrade, at least not last time I tried.
Reason: it downloads everything from internet, giving preference to the online repos against the DVD. This is an absolute NO-NO if you have a slow network, which is precisely one of the reasons for using the DVD in the first place.
But you can configure this in /etc/zypp/zypp.conf, check out the "download.media_preference" option. Cheers, Michael. -- Michael Schroeder mls@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF Jeff Hawn, HRB 16746 AG Nuernberg main(_){while(_=~getchar())putchar(~_-1/(~(_|32)/13*2-11)*13);} -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2013-12-09 13:24, Michael Schroeder wrote:
On Mon, Dec 09, 2013 at 01:11:56PM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
No, unfortunately you can not use the internet repos during a DVD upgrade, at least not last time I tried.
Reason: it downloads everything from internet, giving preference to the online repos against the DVD. This is an absolute NO-NO if you have a slow network, which is precisely one of the reasons for using the DVD in the first place.
But you can configure this in /etc/zypp/zypp.conf, check out the "download.media_preference" option.
Yes, that's a test I want to do. I changed the priorities on my last real upgrade to no avail (when upgrading to 12.3). On my testing for 13.1 I have not tried this issue, only virtual machines available for it. I need to install something relatively big on the test install, something easy to spot and that is not contained on the DVD. Then, do the upgrade. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlKlvasACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WZDQCcC3K/Q4wJZyb+X1EeGnDDU+Vs jsYAnRqUwuHqK34oos6L3d+T18VIIG6f =ltzm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-12-09 04:37, L.A. Walsh wrote:
On 12/8/2013 5:39 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
(a system upgrade is the task of the admin)
I don't see MS advertising or claiming that upgrading to Win 8 is something only a professional should try (nor similar coming from apple).
They don't. But the professionals do say it. Depends on the direction of the money flow ;-)
I see this as a problem w/linux. It shouldn't require an admin to update it.
Linux is a very easy system to use - provided the admin knows his job, the users are fine. ©® Same thing. :-P -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
El 06/12/13 20:10, Archie Cobbs escribió:
Right... You help prove my point, which is that this is pathetically inadequate.
The fact that nobody seems to care does not inspire confidence...
Then propose a workable solution to deal with hundred or thousands of likely problems that you might find when upgrading from 12.3 to 13.1. It is pretty complicated actually.. It may be doable if we gain, let's say 100 more developers and add another 8 months to the development schedule.. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Cristian Rodríguez <crrodriguez@opensuse.org> wrote:
El 06/12/13 20:10, Archie Cobbs escribió:
Right... You help prove my point, which is that this is pathetically inadequate.
The fact that nobody seems to care does not inspire confidence...
Then propose a workable solution to deal with hundred or thousands of likely problems that you might find when upgrading from 12.3 to 13.1.
I already proposed several solutions in the OP. They all are geared toward preventing users from falling into the same trap that I did. Trying to make zypper dup actually work across multiple releases would be much harder and is not something I have ever suggested. -Archie -- Archie L. Cobbs -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-12-07 03:45, Archie Cobbs wrote:
I already proposed several solutions in the OP. They all are geared toward preventing users from falling into the same trap that I did. Trying to make zypper dup actually work across multiple releases would be much harder and is not something I have ever suggested.
But zypper has no idea how many distribution versions it is jumping across. You change the repos, then you tell it to upgrade packages. In fact, you can change the repos to an older release, tell it to upgrade the distribution, and it will happily do the upgrade, which is in fact a downgrade. It is the administrator who has to know what he is doing ;-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 11:42:14PM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
«Starting with openSUSE 11.2, a live upgrade from the prior version is officially supported.»
It says "from the prior version". It should be clearer, but it is there :-}
"Supported" here means tested. It should also work from older versions, but nobody tests it and thus something may break. The last update I did was from 12.1 to 12.3, and it worked well. Bottom line: you should only skip versions if you have enough knowledge to repair things that broke. Cheers, Michael. -- Michael Schroeder mls@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF Jeff Hawn, HRB 16746 AG Nuernberg main(_){while(_=~getchar())putchar(~_-1/(~(_|32)/13*2-11)*13);} -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, Dec 09, 2013 at 11:42:49AM +0100, Michael Schroeder wrote:
On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 11:42:14PM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
«Starting with openSUSE 11.2, a live upgrade from the prior version is officially supported.»
It says "from the prior version". It should be clearer, but it is there :-}
"Supported" here means tested. It should also work from older versions, but nobody tests it and thus something may break. The last update I did was from 12.1 to 12.3, and it worked well.
Bottom line: you should only skip versions if you have enough knowledge to repair things that broke.
The /var/run -> /run move in a live system was an issue we fixed for the 12.3 -> 13.1 transition, but not for 12.2. Such things will just bite occasionaly. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Le lundi 09 décembre 2013 à 11:44 +0100, Marcus Meissner a écrit :
On Mon, Dec 09, 2013 at 11:42:49AM +0100, Michael Schroeder wrote:
On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 11:42:14PM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
«Starting with openSUSE 11.2, a live upgrade from the prior version is officially supported.»
It says "from the prior version". It should be clearer, but it is there :-}
"Supported" here means tested. It should also work from older versions, but nobody tests it and thus something may break. The last update I did was from 12.1 to 12.3, and it worked well.
Bottom line: you should only skip versions if you have enough knowledge to repair things that broke.
The /var/run -> /run move in a live system was an issue we fixed for the 12.3 -> 13.1 transition, but not for 12.2.
No, it was never fixed, unfortunately, because we never did it in a release distribution :( We should still move /var/run to a symlink to /run but I was never able to have it working properly, during a live install. Help welcome.. -- Frederic Crozat <fcrozat@suse.com> SUSE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2013-12-09 11:42, Michael Schroeder wrote:
On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 11:42:14PM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
«Starting with openSUSE 11.2, a live upgrade from the prior version is officially supported.»
It says "from the prior version". It should be clearer, but it is there :-}
"Supported" here means tested. It should also work from older versions, but nobody tests it and thus something may break. The last update I did was from 12.1 to 12.3, and it worked well.
At the time when this was said, years ago, Kulow (?)said that not supported meant bugzillas on jumps would be wontfixed directly. I might dig out the reference.
Bottom line: you should only skip versions if you have enough knowledge to repair things that broke.
Right. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlKltVQACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VgxwCfZ8mxtJIIp/BkeTIUPUMfgUPI wtAAniLswz4fJppdVgV5lxtXJ/+691hJ =R7Ai -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, 05 Dec 2013 17:53:13 -0500, Greg Freemyer wrote:
Archie, sometimes you can skip a release like you are trying, but it is never supported via zypper dup.
Yep. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I did an upgrade today on my 12.2 laptop to 13.1 and it blew up all over the place. Rather than sort through the issues, I backed up data (actually did that before the ugprade) and then did a fresh installation on the root partition, preserving the home partition (but whacking the GNOME 3 configuration). Running pretty smoothly now, though I'm finding some of the software I had installed requires outdated libraries - ironically, mostly Novell or former Novell (now NetIQ) stuff (iManager and the Groupwise client in particular). In-place upgrades always - even with supported version upgrades - leave undesirable cruft on the system. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2013-12-08 04:23, Jim Henderson wrote:
Yep. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I did an upgrade today on my 12.2 laptop to 13.1 and it blew up all over the place. Rather than sort through the issues, I backed up data (actually did that before the ugprade) and then did a fresh installation on the root partition, preserving the home partition (but whacking the GNOME 3 configuration).
You could instead have used the DVD Offline System Upgrade Method - boot the DVD (or NetInstall CD), choose upgrade instead of install. It has been known to repair those fiascos.
In-place upgrades always - even with supported version upgrades - leave undesirable cruft on the system.
My system is more or less upgraded since 5.3 - works fine ;-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlKkd1sACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VjFwCfSBHwIAEcWdiyoHRi0rx5GRN0 sqoAnidpLuRKI9RqWV5dY/M1VPXzuB43 =fq7B -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 14:42:51 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 2013-12-08 04:23, Jim Henderson wrote:
Yep. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I did an upgrade today on my 12.2 laptop to 13.1 and it blew up all over the place. Rather than sort through the issues, I backed up data (actually did that before the ugprade) and then did a fresh installation on the root partition, preserving the home partition (but whacking the GNOME 3 configuration).
You could instead have used the DVD Offline System Upgrade Method - boot the DVD (or NetInstall CD), choose upgrade instead of install. It has been known to repair those fiascos.
That's what I actually did. I didn't do a zypper dup.
In-place upgrades always - even with supported version upgrades - leave undesirable cruft on the system.
My system is more or less upgraded since 5.3 - works fine ;-)
Well, good for you. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2013-12-08 23:21, Jim Henderson wrote:
That's what I actually did. I didn't do a zypper dup.
Then what happened? What broke? Because that method does support jumps. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlKlBFMACgkQtTMYHG2NR9U1rQCdG54Qw2WNfuQAe+Sx7WsV4rrK 6xYAnRd/tWhs9lU4CNlMqfRr3sxfW1H5 =uS6R -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, 09 Dec 2013 00:44:19 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 2013-12-08 23:21, Jim Henderson wrote:
That's what I actually did. I didn't do a zypper dup.
Then what happened? What broke? Because that method does support jumps.
Well, GNOME was completely broken for starters. System startup kept locking up, and every time I tried to fix GNOME and restart it, I ended up having to completely reboot the machine (that was the only way to get gdm working). I spent the better part of 3 hours trying to get it working, and in the end, I decided there was some old cruft on the system that was probably causing problems, and I could have spent another day trying to get it to work, or I could just install / from scratch and have a clean setup. I opted for the latter. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-12-09 01:44, Jim Henderson wrote:
On Mon, 09 Dec 2013 00:44:19 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
That's what I actually did. I didn't do a zypper dup.
Then what happened? What broke? Because that method does support jumps.
Well, GNOME was completely broken for starters. System startup kept locking up, and every time I tried to fix GNOME and restart it, I ended up having to completely reboot the machine (that was the only way to get gdm working).
I spent the better part of 3 hours trying to get it working, and in the end, I decided there was some old cruft on the system that was probably causing problems, and I could have spent another day trying to get it to work, or I could just install / from scratch and have a clean setup. I opted for the latter.
There are two kinds of cruft after a system upgrade. * One, is that as the DVD is too small to contain the full oss repo, a lot is missing. So you have to do after it: zypper dup zypper up zypper patch And even after that, I recommend running an rpm query to find out if something slipped: [CODE] rpm -q -a --queryformat "%{INSTALLTIME};%{INSTALLTIME:day}; \ %{BUILDTIME:day}; %{NAME};%{VERSION}-%-7{RELEASE};%{arch}; \ %{VENDOR};%{PACKAGER};%{DISTRIBUTION};%{DISTTAG}\n" \ | sort | cut --fields="2-" --delimiter=\; \ | tee rpmlist.csv | less -S or rpm -q -a --queryformat "%{INSTALLTIME}\t%{INSTALLTIME:day} \ %{BUILDTIME:day} %-30{NAME}\t%15{VERSION}-%-7{RELEASE}\t%{arch} \ %25{VENDOR}%25{PACKAGER} == %{DISTRIBUTION} %{DISTTAG}\n" \ | sort | cut --fields="2-" | tee rpmlist | less -S [/CODE] Only after that do I trust running a complex desktop such as KDE or Gnome. Before that I use text mode or a lightweight desktop, if it works (it doesn't always). which means, of course, that I boot to runlevel 3, to avoid problems. * The second issue is stale config files. If you run "rcrpmconfigcheck" you get a list of config files to check. Even on normal updates you get them: Telcontar:~ # rcrpmconfigcheck Searching for unresolved configuration files done Please check the following files (see /var/adm/rpmconfigcheck): /etc/dovecot/conf.d/10-logging.conf.rpmnew /etc/dovecot/conf.d/10-ssl.conf.rpmnew /etc/dovecot/dovecot.conf.rpmsave /etc/zypp/zypp.conf.rpmnew Telcontar:~ # What I do is after coping both files, old and new, to another location, is (example): meld /etc/dovecot/dovecot.conf.rpmsave /etc/dovecot/dovecot.conf which is a kde editor that opens both files and compares them, making it easy to copy entire sections from one file to the other, so that it is easy to migrate new features or old settings, as you wish. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 El 2013-12-05 a las 15:56 -0600, Archie Cobbs escribió:
I upgraded a machine yesterday via "zypper dup" from 12.2 -> 13.1.
Not supported.
Instead of creating a bunch of bugs in bugzilla (which I don't have time for anyway) and having half of them be irrelevant, already fixed, etc. I thought I'd run these issues by the mailing list first in case anyone wants to step up to investigate.
Not suported means that those bugzillas would be inmediately closed as wontfix or something similar. If it works, fine... You can try to recover by doing an Offline System Upgrade (Boot DVD, choose upgrade). - -- Cheers Carlos E. R. (from 11.4, with Evergreen, x86_64 "Celadon" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlKiT7kACgkQja8UbcUWM1ziJAD/ctLuPKTNrRZzY00AIwiCeiep jzRoMsRlGMDK6NIHm74A/3w3RyXzKbBm9lBXRx2DURg6niX5GUBbrNPojZLW4dnS =WZun -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On 12/6/2013 2:29 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
El 2013-12-05 a las 15:56 -0600, Archie Cobbs escribió:
I upgraded a machine yesterday via "zypper dup" from 12.2 -> 13.1.
Not supported.
==== How about 12.2 ->12.3 ->13.1? With no stop in between? Supported? You'd still end up in some sort of hell. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-12-08 10:40, L.A. Walsh wrote:
On 12/6/2013 2:29 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
How about 12.2 ->12.3 ->13.1?
With no stop in between?
Supported? You'd still end up in some sort of hell.
Yes, that is supported, and should work. People do that all the time. But with stops, you are supposed to ensure the system works correctly, and if not, correct the problems. For instance, you have to run "rcrpmconfigcheck" and review the produced list. You also have to run "zypper patch" at least once. You have to read the release notes of each version and see if there are manual changes to apply - for instance, in 13.1 you have to remove certain entries form fstab. If instead of stopping you continue while there are problems, the result is unpredictable. The jump from 12.2 to 13.1 is known to fail. There is a certain update to 12.3 that, if it is not applied, the upgrade to 13.1 breaks. As 12.2 does not have it, it breaks. Maybe this warning should be clearer in the release notes. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2013-12-08 14:50, Carlos E. R. wrote:
The jump from 12.2 to 13.1 is known to fail. There is a certain update to 12.3 that, if it is not applied, the upgrade to 13.1 breaks. As 12.2 does not have it, it breaks.
Maybe this warning should be clearer in the release notes.
The instructions wiki now clearly says not to jump a version. But this change to the wiki has to be yet accepted by one of the authorized reviewers. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlKkercACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VcswCePhg8bv+3SEa79jlciLiH7o9b uEAAnj95l3wiNm97dXYaUoZyqMKjtzRR =NZNm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
El 05/12/13 18:56, Archie Cobbs escribió:
I upgraded a machine yesterday via "zypper dup" from 12.2 -> 13.1.
dups skipping one distribution version are going to be very bumpy indeed..
Problem #2: The upgrade hung during "Installing rtkit-0.11_git201205151338-5.2.1"
The stuck process was: dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest=org.freedesktop.DBus / org.freedesktop.DBus.ReloadConfig > /dev/null 2>&1
I had to kill -9 this process in order to get zypper running again.
Know problem.
Problem #3: Several mkinitrd's failed due to "plymouth: symbol lookup error: plymouth: undefined symbol: ply_logger_is_tracing_enabled"
those come due to partial upgrade of plymouth, your installation was not fully updated when mkinitrd ran.. It should one run once at the end of rpm transaction, but RPM transactions are not used by zypp.
Several RPMs run the mkinitrd stuff in %post. At first these worked, then they started failing with the above error, and then later they started working again once plymouth had been installed. Perhaps there is a missing Requires(post): dependency?
Problem #4: Multiple errors of the form "/etc/init.d/foo: No such file or directory"
For example:
Installing: at-3.1.13-5.4.1 .... /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.DPrmiC: line 8: /etc/init.d/atd: No such file or directory
Expected. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Dec 07th 2013 00:29 Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
It should one run once at the end of rpm transaction, but RPM transactions are not used by zypp.
And that is done for a reason I guess. Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Philipp Thomas <philipp.thomas2@gmx.net> writes:
On Dec 07th 2013 00:29 Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
It should one run once at the end of rpm transaction, but RPM transactions are not used by zypp.
And that is done for a reason I guess.
More like hysterical raisins. Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, SUSE Labs, schwab@suse.de GPG Key fingerprint = 0196 BAD8 1CE9 1970 F4BE 1748 E4D4 88E3 0EEA B9D7 "And now for something completely different." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, 9 Dec 2013 11:28, Andreas Schwab <schwab@...> wrote:
Philipp Thomas <philipp.thomas2@gmx.net> writes:
On Dec 07th 2013 00:29 Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
It should one run once at the end of rpm transaction, but RPM transactions are not used by zypp.
And that is done for a reason I guess.
More like hysterical raisins.
?? Eh? Did you try to make a funny, or did you mean "historical reasons"? - Yamaban
On 12/09/2013 11:32 AM, Yamaban wrote:
On Mon, 9 Dec 2013 11:28, Andreas Schwab <schwab@...> wrote:
More like hysterical raisins.
?? Eh? Did you try to make a funny, or did you mean "historical reasons"?
http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/H/hysterical-reasons.html -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Sat, Dec 07, 2013 at 11:57:18PM +0100, Philipp Thomas wrote:
On Dec 07th 2013 00:29 Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
It should one run once at the end of rpm transaction, but RPM transactions are not used by zypp.
And that is done for a reason I guess.
Lack of time. AFAIK it'll work with the next openSUSE release. (There was no real need for it before the texlive split. Now we need it.) M. -- Michael Schroeder mls@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF Jeff Hawn, HRB 16746 AG Nuernberg main(_){while(_=~getchar())putchar(~_-1/(~(_|32)/13*2-11)*13);} -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 08:29:28PM -0300, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
those come due to partial upgrade of plymouth, your installation was not fully updated when mkinitrd ran..
It should one run once at the end of rpm transaction, but RPM transactions are not used by zypp.
Well, that looks like a package dependency cycle that includes a "pre" dependency, which is always evil and a packaging bug. The zypper logfile should contain some messages about this. You could somewhat mitigate this running mkinitrd at the end of the transaction, but it's a packaging bug nevertheless. M. -- Michael Schroeder mls@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF Jeff Hawn, HRB 16746 AG Nuernberg main(_){while(_=~getchar())putchar(~_-1/(~(_|32)/13*2-11)*13);} -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
participants (21)
-
agustin benito bethencourt -
Andreas Schwab -
Archie Cobbs -
Bernhard Voelker -
Carlos E. R. -
Carlos E. R. -
Cristian Rodríguez -
Daniele -
Felix Miata -
Frederic Crozat -
Greg Freemyer -
Jan Engelhardt -
Jim Henderson -
L.A. Walsh -
Linda Walsh
-
Marcus Meissner -
Michael Schroeder -
Patrick Shanahan -
Philipp Thomas -
Stefan Seyfried -
Yamaban