Re: [opensuse-factory] Ancient hardware support statement
Hi, On 10/21/2013 03:44 PM, Sascha Peilicke wrote:
Hi guys,
without checking any mail archives, our forums or wikis for prior art, I would like to know if we have any general hardware support statements. I'm currently staring at a maintenance update that disables SSE2 support on certain software because the CPU doesn't support it. The manufacturing of that CPU stopped in 2004, so I'm not really sure what to think of it. Any thoughts?
openSUSE builds for i586 hence SSE2 does not exist there. If we build for i686 instead we wouldn't need such changes. FWIW I am all for changing to i686 as default 32bit target. Regards, ismail -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday 21 October 2013 15:49:28 İsmail Dönmez wrote:
Hi,
On 10/21/2013 03:44 PM, Sascha Peilicke wrote:
Hi guys,
without checking any mail archives, our forums or wikis for prior art, I would like to know if we have any general hardware support statements. I'm currently staring at a maintenance update that disables SSE2 support on certain software because the CPU doesn't support it. The manufacturing of that CPU stopped in 2004, so I'm not really sure what to think of it. Any thoughts?
openSUSE builds for i586 hence SSE2 does not exist there.
Well, according to [0], several pre-64bit iterations of the Pentium 4 did have it o:-D
If we build for i686 instead we wouldn't need such changes. FWIW I am all for changing to i686 as default 32bit target.
That would work for me. [0] http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Pentium_4/TYPE-Desktop%20Pentium%204%20Northwo... -- With kind regards, Sascha Peilicke SUSE Linux GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg, Germany GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg)
İsmail Dönmez wrote:
Hi,
On 10/21/2013 03:44 PM, Sascha Peilicke wrote:
Hi guys,
without checking any mail archives, our forums or wikis for prior art, I would like to know if we have any general hardware support statements. I'm currently staring at a maintenance update that disables SSE2 support on certain software because the CPU doesn't support it. The manufacturing of that CPU stopped in 2004, so I'm not really sure what to think of it. Any thoughts?
openSUSE builds for i586 hence SSE2 does not exist there. If we build for i686 instead we wouldn't need such changes. FWIW I am all for changing to i686 as default 32bit target.
There are a number of low-power embedded CPUs out there that don't have SSE2 for instance - AMD Geode comes to mind (because we have some of those - somewhere). -- Per Jessen, Zürich (18.4°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
El 21/10/13 11:08, Per Jessen escribió:
There are a number of low-power embedded CPUs out there that don't have SSE2 for instance - AMD Geode comes to mind (because we have some of those - somewhere).
Yes, special cases.. I disagree that we should target special cases, instead I believe we should target the most common hardware out there. Apparently computers are usually replaced around every 4.x years, but let's be generous.. let's assume 10 years. SSE2 was introduced 12 years ago.. -- "If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in." - Edsger Dijkstra -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Quoting Cristian Rodríguez <crrodriguez@opensuse.org>:
El 21/10/13 11:08, Per Jessen escribió:
There are a number of low-power embedded CPUs out there that don't have SSE2 for instance - AMD Geode comes to mind (because we have some of those - somewhere).
Yes, special cases.. I disagree that we should target special cases, instead I believe we should target the most common hardware out there.
The most common hardware nowadays is x86_64 and ARM I would say. This reasoning won't help anything. Make a cost/benefit analysis: - how much effort is it to support those boards? - How often do we have to fix something particular for those boards? - What benefit do we gain by no longer supporting them? (not monetary per se.. ANY benefit counts). so? still worthy to discuss the matter? Dominique -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
op 21-10-13 16:37, Dominique Leuenberger a.k.a. Dimstar schreef:
Quoting Cristian Rodríguez <crrodriguez@opensuse.org>:
El 21/10/13 11:08, Per Jessen escribió:
There are a number of low-power embedded CPUs out there that don't have SSE2 for instance - AMD Geode comes to mind (because we have some of those - somewhere).
Yes, special cases.. I disagree that we should target special cases, instead I believe we should target the most common hardware out there.
The most common hardware nowadays is x86_64 and ARM I would say. This reasoning won't help anything.
Make a cost/benefit analysis: - how much effort is it to support those boards? - How often do we have to fix something particular for those boards? - What benefit do we gain by no longer supporting them? (not monetary per se.. ANY benefit counts).
so? still worthy to discuss the matter?
Good questions! We have a 10 year old computer for the children with some kind of AMD Sempron CPU that does not support sse2. The only trouble I have run into (on openSUSE 12.3) is that adobe flash for some years need sse2 to be present, so I need to install some ancient version of flash. Cor -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/21/2013 10:56 AM, Cor Blom wrote:
Good questions!
We have a 10 year old computer for the children with some kind of AMD Sempron CPU that does not support sse2. The only trouble I have run into (on openSUSE 12.3) is that adobe flash for some years need sse2 to be present, so I need to install some ancient version of flash.
I have two machines with PCMCIA hardware that I use to make sure that bitrot is not affecting that hardware. One is a Mac PowerBook G4 and it is outside this discussion; however, the other is a laptop from ~2000 with an AMD K5 CPU. This one requires i586, and I would be very unhappy if support for that architecture were dropped. I am resigned to the fact that the only ISO that will ever work on that machine is the NET install, and that I have to be careful that every new release of gcc has not screwed up the CPU capabilities for the K5. Despite these problems, I do wish to keep that machine running to test new kernels. Larry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
In data lunedì 21 ottobre 2013 17:56:07, Cor Blom ha scritto:
We have a 10 year old computer for the children with some kind of AMD Sempron CPU that does not support sse2. The only trouble I have run into (on openSUSE 12.3) is that adobe flash for some years need sse2 to be present, so I need to install some ancient version of flash. me too. My main Pc is an athlon XP so old flash plugin and no more google-earth :(
Bye. -- *** Linux user # 198661 ---_ ICQ 33500725 *** *** Home http://www.kailed.net *** *** Powered by openSUSE *** -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday 21 October 2013 17:56:07 Cor Blom wrote:
op 21-10-13 16:37, Dominique Leuenberger a.k.a. Dimstar schreef:
Quoting Cristian Rodríguez <crrodriguez@opensuse.org>:
El 21/10/13 11:08, Per Jessen escribió:
There are a number of low-power embedded CPUs out there that don't have SSE2 for instance - AMD Geode comes to mind (because we have some of those - somewhere).
Yes, special cases.. I disagree that we should target special cases, instead I believe we should target the most common hardware out there.
The most common hardware nowadays is x86_64 and ARM I would say. This reasoning won't help anything.
Make a cost/benefit analysis: - how much effort is it to support those boards? - How often do we have to fix something particular for those boards? - What benefit do we gain by no longer supporting them? (not monetary per se.. ANY benefit counts).
so? still worthy to discuss the matter?
Good questions!
We have a 10 year old computer for the children with some kind of AMD Sempron CPU that does not support sse2. The only trouble I have run into (on openSUSE 12.3) is that adobe flash for some years need sse2 to be present, so I need to install some ancient version of flash.
I think you should look into Firefox Nightly, it includes Shumway [0], a pure- JavaScript implementation of the Flash plugin. [0] https://blog.mozilla.org/research/2012/11/12/introducing-the-shumway-open-sw... -- With kind regards, Sascha Peilicke SUSE Linux GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg, Germany GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg)
On Mon, 2013-10-21 at 11:30 -0300, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 21/10/13 11:08, Per Jessen escribió:
There are a number of low-power embedded CPUs out there that don't have SSE2 for instance - AMD Geode comes to mind (because we have some of those - somewhere).
Yes, special cases.. I disagree that we should target special cases, instead I believe we should target the most common hardware out there.
Well, then we should stop building for 32bit.
Apparently computers are usually replaced around every 4.x years, but let's be generous.. let's assume 10 years. SSE2 was introduced 12 years ago..
But the question should be when it became ubiquitous, when when it was introduced. Regards Oliver -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, 21 Oct 2013, ?smail D?nmez wrote:
Hi,
On 10/21/2013 03:44 PM, Sascha Peilicke wrote:
Hi guys,
without checking any mail archives, our forums or wikis for prior art, I would like to know if we have any general hardware support statements. I'm currently staring at a maintenance update that disables SSE2 support on certain software because the CPU doesn't support it. The manufacturing of that CPU stopped in 2004, so I'm not really sure what to think of it. Any thoughts?
openSUSE builds for i586 hence SSE2 does not exist there. If we build for i686 instead we wouldn't need such changes. FWIW I am all for changing to i686 as default 32bit target.
I think you want at least SSE2 support which i686 doesn't provide (in GCC -march terms). SSE2 is introduced with pentium4 while i686 is requivalent to PPro (i586 was Pentium). Richard.
Regards, ismail
-- Richard Biener <rguenther@suse.de> SUSE / SUSE Labs SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nuernberg - AG Nuernberg - HRB 16746 GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imend -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
participants (10)
-
Cor Blom -
Cristian Rodríguez -
Daniele -
Dominique Leuenberger a.k.a. Dimstar -
İsmail Dönmez -
Larry Finger -
Oliver Neukum -
Per Jessen -
Richard Biener -
Sascha Peilicke