21.01.2018 21:21, Richard Brown пишет:

On 21 January 2018 at 15:43, Antoine Belvire wrote:

...

Hi,

I've moved to the new layout so I've written something on how to do it: https://www.alionet.org/content.php?801-openSUSE-change-son-%AB-partitionnem....

The explanations are in French but the commands are the same in English ;-)

This guide is wrong, dangerous, and should not be followed

_I strongly recommend against anyone using this guide_

To summarise it's key flaws

#1 The guide does not make clear that the new structure should NOT BE USED on Leap 42.3 or earlier distributions. Anyone using a flat /var subvolume on Leap 42.3 or earlier WILL break their system when rolling back because rpm still locates it's database in /var/lib/rpmdb in that version, and hundreds of packages store their fillup-templates in /var/adm still.

You cannot forbid users to chose arbitrary filesystem layout during installation. If this is so dangerous, snapper should refuse to perform rollback (or even create snapshots actually). If snapper allows it, how can you blame users? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Op zondag 21 januari 2018 20:02:26 CET schreef Andrei Borzenkov:

21.01.2018 21:21, Richard Brown пишет:

...

On 21 January 2018 at 15:43, Antoine Belvire

wrote:

...

Hi,

I've moved to the new layout so I've written something on how to do it: https://www.alionet.org/content.php?801-openSUSE-change-son-%AB-partition nement-%BB-Btrfs/view/2.

The explanations are in French but the commands are the same in English ;-)

This guide is wrong, dangerous, and should not be followed

_I strongly recommend against anyone using this guide_

To summarise it's key flaws

#1 The guide does not make clear that the new structure should NOT BE USED on Leap 42.3 or earlier distributions. Anyone using a flat /var subvolume on Leap 42.3 or earlier WILL break their system when rolling back because rpm still locates it's database in /var/lib/rpmdb in that version, and hundreds of packages store their fillup-templates in /var/adm still.

You cannot forbid users to chose arbitrary filesystem layout during installation. If this is so dangerous, snapper should refuse to perform rollback (or even create snapshots actually). If snapper allows it, how can you blame users?

I don't see Richard forbidding things. Strongly recommending against it, yes. No software can completely armour itself against user misconfiguration. -- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 21 January 2018 at 20:02, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

You cannot forbid users to chose arbitrary filesystem layout during installation. If this is so dangerous, snapper should refuse to perform rollback (or even create snapshots actually). If snapper allows it, how can you blame users?

Users cannot customise a separate /var filesystem in our basic tools provided. Neither the standard workflow nor the easy "Guided Setup" workflow allows it. We allow users to do lots of stupid stuff in the Expert partitioner, that's why it's the _Expert_ partitioner, and provides that question where the user must state that they know what they are doing If a user chooses a separate /var filesystem on a version of openSUSE that stores it's rpm database in /var (ie. Leap 42.3 and earlier), then either - a) the user is doing something stupid and they shouldn't have said they know what they are doing when opening the Expert partioner - b) the user knows what they are doing and have a custom solution to snapshot & restore /var in parallel to / Either way, it's not snapper's fault that the user has chosen to go above and beyond the default configuration we've provided. When we warn users with stuff like the Expert Partitioner warning, users should absolutely take responsibility for the decisions they make in such tooling. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Sun, Jan 21, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

You cannot forbid users to chose arbitrary filesystem layout during installation. If this is so dangerous, snapper should refuse to perform rollback (or even create snapshots actually). If snapper allows it, how can you blame users?

Because snapper makes a filesystem snapshot and rollback, not a system snapshot. What is the difference? snapper does not care at all if this is your home partition, data partition or root filesystem. This doesn't make any difference for snapper. And since snapper does not know what you snapshot and if rollback can work, it cannot warn you. That's why snapper/rollback of the root filesystem is only supported with the default filesystem layout (including /@) and nothing else. But this does not mean, that you cannot create a complete different layout which works, too. As we e.g. did for openSUSE Kubic. Thorsten -- Thorsten Kukuk, Distinguished Engineer, Senior Architect SLES & CaaSP SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany GF: Felix Imendoerffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nuernberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Thorsten Kukuk writes:

Everybody not having /@ should do a fresh installation asap if he plans to use snapshots or rollback ...

How should I check and why is a re-install my only option? I might do a re-install (I did that before), but there really ought to be a way of saving the package list and customizations someplace and have the installer use that. I tend to find missing packages or customizations for the first few weeks after a re-install. Regards, Achim. -- +<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+ Factory and User Sound Singles for Waldorf Blofeld: http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSounds -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Sat, 2018-01-27 at 09:26 +0100, Achim Gratz wrote:

Achim Gratz writes:

...

Thorsten Kukuk writes:

...

Everybody not having /@ should do a fresh installation asap if he plans to use snapshots or rollback ...

How should I check

To answer that part of my own question:

$ sudo btrfs subvolume list / ID 257 gen 1112 top level 5 path @ ID 258 gen 225988 top level 257 path @/.snapshots ID 259 gen 225990 top level 258 path @/.snapshots/1/snapshot ID 260 gen 2508 top level 257 path @/boot/grub2/i386-pc ID 261 gen 220922 top level 257 path @/boot/grub2/x86_64-efi ID 262 gen 206044 top level 257 path @/opt ID 263 gen 225942 top level 257 path @/srv ID 264 gen 225988 top level 257 path @/tmp ID 265 gen 225959 top level 257 path @/usr/local ID 266 gen 225974 top level 257 path @/var/cache ID 267 gen 206044 top level 257 path @/var/crash ID 268 gen 1112 top level 257 path @/var/lib/libvirt/images ID 269 gen 1112 top level 257 path @/var/lib/machines ID 270 gen 1112 top level 257 path @/var/lib/mailman ID 271 gen 1112 top level 257 path @/var/lib/mariadb ID 272 gen 1112 top level 257 path @/var/lib/mysql ID 273 gen 1112 top level 257 path @/var/lib/named ID 274 gen 1112 top level 257 path @/var/lib/pgsql ID 275 gen 225990 top level 257 path @/var/log ID 276 gen 206044 top level 257 path @/var/opt ID 277 gen 225987 top level 257 path @/var/spool ID 278 gen 225974 top level 257 path @/var/tmp ID 1030 gen 220891 top level 258 path @/.snapshots/560/snapshot ID 1036 gen 220921 top level 258 path @/.snapshots/561/snapshot ID 1037 gen 221156 top level 258 path @/.snapshots/562/snapshot ID 1039 gen 221165 top level 258 path @/.snapshots/563/snapshot ID 1041 gen 221679 top level 258 path @/.snapshots/564/snapshot ID 1042 gen 221687 top level 258 path @/.snapshots/565/snapshot ID 1043 gen 223958 top level 258 path @/.snapshots/566/snapshot ID 1044 gen 223966 top level 258 path @/.snapshots/567/snapshot ID 1045 gen 224307 top level 258 path @/.snapshots/568/snapshot ID 1046 gen 224309 top level 258 path @/.snapshots/569/snapshot ID 1047 gen 224439 top level 258 path @/.snapshots/570/snapshot ID 1048 gen 224440 top level 258 path @/.snapshots/571/snapshot

ID 1049 gen 225941 top level 258 path @/.snapshots/572/snapshot

ID 1050 gen 225951 top level 258 path @/.snapshots/573/snapshot

So, the latest re-install already got me the @ subvalome that was talked about.

...

and why is a re-install my only option?

So, whatever I could follow from the French guide, I should already have the correct (previous) rootfs structure. I've never did a rollback on this installation, so I still have the first snapshot as default:

$ sudo btrfs subvolume get-default / ID 259 gen 226013 top level 258 path @/.snapshots/1/snapshot

So, if I wanted to try the conversion I'd remove all snapshots except the default one and then boot into a current live Tumbleweed and then follow along with the things done in that guide?

Regards, Achim. -- +<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+

Factory and User Sound Singles for Waldorf rackAttack: http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSounds

I just installed my system on the 22th and according to this I need to do a reinstall?! What are my options here? What is this conversion that you have mentioned? I got on the mailing list only a couple of days ago and must have missed something. Thank you Jeffrey -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Sat, 2018-01-27 at 21:50 +0100, Achim Gratz wrote:

Jeffrey Harris writes:

...

I just installed my system on the 22th and according to this I need to do a reinstall?!

Well if you meant the 22nd of January _and_ have used a current image (later than 2017-01-17) you should be fine.

Regards, Achim. -- +<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+

Factory and User Sound Singles for Waldorf Blofeld: http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSounds

My snapshot was from the 22 of January but this is the output of "sudo btrfs subvolume list /" ID 257 gen 1210 top level 5 path var/tmp ID 258 gen 1284 top level 5 path var/spool ID 259 gen 55 top level 5 path var/opt ID 260 gen 1284 top level 5 path var/log ID 261 gen 18 top level 5 path var/lib/pgsql ID 262 gen 20 top level 5 path var/lib/named ID 263 gen 24 top level 5 path var/lib/mysql ID 264 gen 28 top level 5 path var/lib/mariadb ID 265 gen 30 top level 5 path var/lib/mailman ID 266 gen 61 top level 5 path var/lib/machines ID 267 gen 36 top level 5 path var/lib/libvirt/images ID 268 gen 55 top level 5 path var/crash ID 269 gen 1164 top level 5 path var/cache ID 270 gen 1141 top level 5 path usr/local ID 271 gen 1284 top level 5 path tmp ID 272 gen 967 top level 5 path srv ID 273 gen 967 top level 5 path opt ID 274 gen 1028 top level 5 path .snapshots ID 275 gen 1284 top level 274 path .snapshots/1/snapshot ID 281 gen 78 top level 274 path .snapshots/2/snapshot ID 333 gen 471 top level 274 path .snapshots/51/snapshot ID 334 gen 482 top level 274 path .snapshots/52/snapshot ID 350 gen 579 top level 274 path .snapshots/67/snapshot ID 351 gen 580 top level 274 path .snapshots/68/snapshot ID 352 gen 582 top level 274 path .snapshots/69/snapshot ID 353 gen 583 top level 274 path .snapshots/70/snapshot ID 354 gen 585 top level 274 path .snapshots/71/snapshot ID 355 gen 589 top level 274 path .snapshots/72/snapshot ID 356 gen 593 top level 274 path .snapshots/73/snapshot ID 357 gen 594 top level 274 path .snapshots/74/snapshot ID 358 gen 998 top level 274 path .snapshots/75/snapshot ID 359 gen 1002 top level 274 path .snapshots/76/snapshot Thank you for your quick response Jeffrey -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Sun, 2018-01-28 at 07:52 +0100, Achim Gratz wrote:

Jeffrey Harris writes:

...

My snapshot was from the 22 of January but this is the output of "sudo btrfs subvolume list /"

Well, the installer you used obviously didn't have the change to create just a single /var subvolume yet.

Regards, Achim. -- +<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+

DIY Stuff: http://Synth.Stromeko.net/DIY.html

That is correct. It also does not have the @/ directory, that would lead me to assume the installer I used (full DVD download from 1/22/18) must have had a regression or used a previous installer in it. I would like to be able to use the snapshot feature of btrfs. If I need to do a reinstall I will but I would love to try a fix. Thank you again Jeffrey -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

I filed a bug yesterday concerning the Tumbleweed Installer. I experienced the same problem with no @ subvolume and various subvolumes under /var. For me it depended upon the choice whether to work with the suggestion made by the installer or the actual partition layout. I normally choose to define my own layout, as I have a seperate /home partition I keep between installs. When trying that, however, I noticed that the installer would use the old subvolume structure (multiple subvolumes under /var, no @). When using the suggestion and changing that to my needs by removing all unnecessary partitions, i got the “correct” structure. I had to manually delete my root btrfs via the rescuesystem for this to work, however. Am Sonntag, 28. Januar 2018, 19:46:54 CET schrieb Achim Gratz:

Jeffrey Harris writes:

...

That is correct. It also does not have the @/ directory, that would lead me to assume the installer I used (full DVD download from 1/22/18) must have had a regression or used a previous installer in it. I would like to be able to use the snapshot feature of btrfs. If I need to do a reinstall I will but I would love to try a fix.

My best guess is that you actually installed Leap, not Tumbleweed? Otherwise I'll have to leave your question to the folks providing the install DVD images.

Regards, Achim.

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org