[opensuse-factory] Related to read only mounted partitions like /usr

Dr. Werner Fink

8 Jul 2011 8 Jul '11

16:52

Hi related to the systemd/sysvinit/udev problematic there is also the problem that currently zypper nor yast2 supports read only mounted partitions. It could be a win if zypper or yast would be able to detect that a path covered by a package is located on a read only mounted partition. For this I'd like to suggest an option to temporary remount such a partiton read/write during installation. This does not only help with old-fashion /usr partitons out there but e.g. also a read only mounted root file system with attached read/write mounted /tmp, /var, and maybe /etc partition, where the last one is mounted in the initramfs. Werrner -- "Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool." -- Edward Burr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

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Rob OpenSuSE

8 Jul 8 Jul

18:49

On 8 July 2011 17:52, Dr. Werner Fink wrote:

...

related to the systemd/sysvinit/udev problematic there is also the problem that currently zypper nor yast2 supports read only mounted partitions. It could be a win if zypper or yast would be able to detect that a path covered by a package is located on a read only mounted partition. For this I'd like to suggest an option to temporary remount such a partiton read/write during installation.

Having studied this, my opinion is supporting the ro / suggestion and wanting to test it. This is better, than lashing up seprate / & /usr. Looking at what's stored now in /lib/modules, /sbin & /lib for example it makes more sense to combine / & /usr; but have /var & /tmp in seperate filesystems.

...

This does not only help with old-fashion /usr partitons out there but e.g. also a read only mounted root file system with attached read/write mounted /tmp, /var, and maybe /etc partition, where the last one is mounted in the initramfs.

/boot unmounted or ro, is detected and super user can "mount -o remount,rw /boot" & retry for example. In 10.3 days I actually had kernel update make system unbootable because /boot was not mounted. If /tmp or /var is not writeable, then it's simple... it's a config or maintenance problem that needs sorting. May be we ought to support tmpfs /tmp better, I've done it but had issue in past that KDE sockets were in /tmp, rather than /var/tmp and in SuSE 7/8 days KDE was slow to make them. There could be problems with what you can do in such a file system, making /var a requirement for certain things (though RH guy has subitted patches to tmpfs to hand user_xattrs for rpm builds to work better). A work round could be to save special files from /tmp & recreate them after remount tmpfs /tmp, with tool like rsync. I notice /etc/zypp has data like repo lists stored there, perhaps thought has to be given to moving /etc/zypp/{locks,repos.d,services.d} belong better in /var, so repo changes can be made "safely" with no possibility of accidents. That would also allow / to be on ro media, like CD/DVD, or write protected device, where you might like to prepare an update (download all for example, but only do it when scheduled). There's likely to be other cases, where programs write to /etc. But I dislike automatic changing of mount options. The ppl who bother about having ro partitions, are unlikely to appreciate the "assistance". So I think the behaviour that kernel update has with /boot is ideal, you can abort or retry after sorting out the problem. The ppl who don't care, will just have a big / that's default rw, so they won't benefit or appreciate the remounting support. After all one reason for a filesystem to be ro, is that it failed fsck, but is necessary to run the system at all ( / & perhaps /usr in future). Regards Rob -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Karl Eichwalder

18:50

New subject: [opensuse-factory] Related to read only mounted partitions like /usr

Am Fri 08 Jul 2011 06:52:13 PM CEST schrieb "Dr. Werner Fink" :

...

It could be a win if zypper or yast would be able to detect that a path covered by a package is located on a read only mounted partition. For this I'd like to suggest an option to temporary remount such a partiton read/write during installation.

If the user manages to mount part of the system ro, he probably knows how to mount it rw for package installation. System changes behind his back is not the way to go. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Rajko M.

9 Jul 9 Jul

03:53

On Friday, July 08, 2011 01:50:03 PM Karl Eichwalder wrote:

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If the user manages to mount part of the system ro, he probably knows how to mount it rw for package installation. System changes behind his back is not the way to go.

What if user didn't do anything to mount part of the system read only, but it is part of installation setup? I guess, then system utilities should take hassle and change read only to read write without asking user for help, as in this case user can be perfectly incapable to issue command to remount them read write. Even those that know how to do that will have not small task of finding correct partition names and pasting them into mount command :) -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Rob OpenSuSE

07:11

On 9 July 2011 04:53, Rajko M. wrote:

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On Friday, July 08, 2011 01:50:03 PM Karl Eichwalder wrote:

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If the user manages to mount part of the system ro, he probably knows how to mount it rw for package installation. System changes behind his back is not the way to go.

What if user didn't do anything to mount part of the system read only, but it is part of installation setup?

Why would you provide such an installer feature? Firstly that will involve developing yet more software to maintain the system after. Secondly that software shall be unwanted by the main market for the feature "ro / system filesystem". Thirdly if it becomes a requirement to support this re-mounting, then you loose opportunity to deploy on some media that's physically not writeable eg) DVD. If you automatically undo ro mounting of / or /usr, you just loose the main benefit of the feature; which is no unintended changes except by planned maintenance! So such a feature to end users is pure cost, undoing the benefits accrued to those willing to issue "mount -o remount,rw /" commands or rebuild a fixed snapshot of / for write protected medium. It might be fun project for a developer to implement, but it would not be useful. Regards Rob -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Dr. Werner Fink

11 Jul 11 Jul

15:11

On Sat, Jul 09, 2011 at 08:11:44AM +0100, Rob OpenSuSE wrote:

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On 9 July 2011 04:53, Rajko M. wrote:

...
On Friday, July 08, 2011 01:50:03 PM Karl Eichwalder wrote:

...
If the user manages to mount part of the system ro, he probably knows how to mount it rw for package installation. System changes behind his back is not the way to go.

What if user didn't do anything to mount part of the system read only, but it is part of installation setup?

Why would you provide such an installer feature?

Firstly that will involve developing yet more software to maintain the system after. Secondly that software shall be unwanted by the main market for the feature "ro / system filesystem". Thirdly if it becomes a requirement to support this re-mounting, then you loose opportunity to deploy on some media that's physically not writeable eg) DVD.

If you automatically undo ro mounting of / or /usr, you just loose the main benefit of the feature; which is no unintended changes except by planned maintenance!

I'm talking about planned maintenance. The only thing I'd like to see that zypper is asking about, nothing more and nothing less. Werner -- "Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool." -- Edward Burr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Dr. Werner Fink

15:09

On Fri, Jul 08, 2011 at 08:50:03PM +0200, Karl Eichwalder wrote:

...

Am Fri 08 Jul 2011 06:52:13 PM CEST schrieb "Dr. Werner Fink" :

...
It could be a win if zypper or yast would be able to detect that a path covered by a package is located on a read only mounted partition. For this I'd like to suggest an option to temporary remount such a partiton read/write during installation.

If the user manages to mount part of the system ro, he probably knows how to mount it rw for package installation. System changes behind his back is not the way to go.

Not in back, zypper should ask. Werner -- "Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool." -- Edward Burr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

23:42

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2011-07-11 17:09, Dr. Werner Fink wrote:

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On Fri, Jul 08, 2011 at 08:50:03PM +0200, Karl Eichwalder wrote:

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If the user manages to mount part of the system ro, he probably knows how to mount it rw for package installation. System changes behind his back is not the way to go.

Not in back, zypper should ask.

Right. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk4bin4ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VE5gCfdc48mZSasudyIYDvN8j8AZ6L bwAAn3dLhCQi6CQf28RMe+TFbfDU8UNg =gmr+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

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Carlos E. R.
Dr. Werner Fink
Karl Eichwalder
Rajko M.
Rob OpenSuSE