[opensuse-factory] Leafnode dropped ?!
Hi guys, I'm wonder leafnode is missing in 11.2 but is in factory !? Dropped ? I hope not it's widely used and still manteined !!! If dropped, is there a valid reason ? Bye. -- *** Linux user # 198661 ---_ ICQ 33500725 *** *** Home http://www.kailed.net *** *** Powered by openSUSE *** -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 21/11/09 14:39, Daniele wrote:
Dropped ? I hope not it's widely used and still manteined !!! If dropped, is there a valid reason ?
Package has no maintainer. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 09:23:49AM -0300, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
On 21/11/09 14:39, Daniele wrote:
Dropped ? I hope not it's widely used and still manteined !!! If dropped, is there a valid reason ?
Package has no maintainer.
That is a huge problem. Pity I do not have the knowledge. Unfortunatly what I am seeing is that openSUSE is becoming more and more only focused on KDE/GNOME and all the rest is pushed back, except the Zypper stuff. Are so many developers gone that software that was maintained in the past does not have a maintainer anymore? Also: is there a list of things that are being dropped because there is no maintainer? houghi -- For a long time now I have tried simply to write the best I can. Sometimes I have good luck and write better than I can. -- Ernest Hemingway -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 03:07:01PM +0100, houghi wrote:
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 09:23:49AM -0300, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
On 21/11/09 14:39, Daniele wrote:
Dropped ? I hope not it's widely used and still manteined !!! If dropped, is there a valid reason ?
Package has no maintainer.
That is a huge problem. Pity I do not have the knowledge. Unfortunatly what I am seeing is that openSUSE is becoming more and more only focused on KDE/GNOME and all the rest is pushed back, except the Zypper stuff.
Are so many developers gone that software that was maintained in the past does not have a maintainer anymore?
Also: is there a list of things that are being dropped because there is no maintainer?
leafnode can easily be picked up by another (even external) maintainer. If someone feels like it, we can surely do that. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi, On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:16:27 +0100 Marcus Meissner <meissner@suse.de> wrote:
leafnode can easily be picked up by another (even external) maintainer.
And, speaking as the former maintainer of the package, it is very low-maintenance, there is not much to do for this package. But even when I was still at SUSE, I was not using leafnode anymore, and I don't think it is good for a package when the maintainer has no real clue of the subject ;) If there are still active users out there, one of them should pick it up, it is really easy to maintain. Have fun, seife -- Stefan Seyfried "Any ideas, John?" "Well, surrounding them's out." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Stefan Seyfried wrote:
On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:16:27 +0100 Marcus Meissner <meissner@suse.de> wrote:
leafnode can easily be picked up by another (even external) maintainer.
And, speaking as the former maintainer of the package, it is very low-maintenance, there is not much to do for this package.
But even when I was still at SUSE, I was not using leafnode anymore, and I don't think it is good for a package when the maintainer has no real clue of the subject ;)
If there are still active users out there, one of them should pick it up, it is really easy to maintain.
Maybe, like houghi already suggested, it would be good with a list of "orphan packages" or "packages seeking maintainer"? /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (0.0°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Stefan Seyfried wrote:
On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:16:27 +0100 Marcus Meissner <meissner@suse.de> wrote:
leafnode can easily be picked up by another (even external) maintainer.
And, speaking as the former maintainer of the package, it is very low-maintenance, there is not much to do for this package.
But even when I was still at SUSE, I was not using leafnode anymore, and I don't think it is good for a package when the maintainer has no real clue of the subject ;)
If there are still active users out there, one of them should pick it up, it is really easy to maintain.
Maybe, like houghi already suggested, it would be good with a list of "orphan packages" or "packages seeking maintainer"? /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (0.0°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Per Jessen wrote:
Maybe, like houghi already suggested, it would be good with a list of "orphan packages" or "packages seeking maintainer"?
$ osc ls openSUSE:Dropped $ osc ls home:hennevogel:TODO cu Ludwig -- (o_ Ludwig Nussel //\ V_/_ http://www.suse.de/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 11:40:41AM +0100, Ludwig Nussel wrote:
Per Jessen wrote:
Maybe, like houghi already suggested, it would be good with a list of "orphan packages" or "packages seeking maintainer"?
$ osc ls openSUSE:Dropped $ osc ls home:hennevogel:TODO
TODO is not "packages seeking maintainer" but "packages seeking devel project". Cheers, Michael. -- Michael Schroeder mls@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF Markus Rex, HRB 16746 AG Nuernberg main(_){while(_=~getchar())putchar(~_-1/(~(_|32)/13*2-11)*13);} -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 11:40:41AM +0100, Ludwig Nussel wrote:
Per Jessen wrote:
Maybe, like houghi already suggested, it would be good with a list of "orphan packages" or "packages seeking maintainer"?
$ osc ls openSUSE:Dropped $ osc ls home:hennevogel:TODO
196 dropped 88 todo Nice. Is there also a way to figure out WHY they have been dropped in an easy way? houghi -- First we thought the PC was a calculator. Then we found out how to turn numbers into letters with ASCII and we thought it was a typewriter. Then we discovered graphics, and we thought it was television. With the World Wide Web, we've realized it's a brochure. -- Douglas Adams. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 09:23:49AM -0300, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
On 21/11/09 14:39, Daniele wrote:
Dropped ? I hope not it's widely used and still manteined !!! If dropped, is there a valid reason ?
Package has no maintainer.
That is a huge problem. Pity I do not have the knowledge. Unfortunatly what I am seeing is that openSUSE is becoming more and more only focused on KDE/GNOME and all the rest is pushed back, except the Zypper stuff. I agree! Leafdnode -> dropped
Il lunedì 23 novembre 2009, houghi scrisse: phpMyadmin -> only in build server the list could be long..
Are so many developers gone that software that was maintained in the past does not have a maintainer anymore?
Also: is there a list of things that are being dropped because there is no maintainer?
What about an unmanteined repo ? With packages that build without issue and without known security bugs.. No, I don't have the knowledge :) It could be done by the build server, package marked "unmanteined" -> go to unmanteined repo. Bye. -- *** Linux user # 198661 ---_ ICQ 33500725 *** *** Home http://www.kailed.net *** *** Powered by openSUSE *** -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 07:30:16PM +0100, Daniele wrote:
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 09:23:49AM -0300, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
On 21/11/09 14:39, Daniele wrote:
Dropped ? I hope not it's widely used and still manteined !!! If dropped, is there a valid reason ?
Package has no maintainer.
That is a huge problem. Pity I do not have the knowledge. Unfortunatly what I am seeing is that openSUSE is becoming more and more only focused on KDE/GNOME and all the rest is pushed back, except the Zypper stuff. I agree! Leafdnode -> dropped
Il lunedì 23 novembre 2009, houghi scrisse: phpMyadmin -> only in build server the list could be long..
Are so many developers gone that software that was maintained in the past does not have a maintainer anymore?
Also: is there a list of things that are being dropped because there is no maintainer?
What about an unmanteined repo ? With packages that build without issue and without known security bugs.. No, I don't have the knowledge :) It could be done by the build server, package marked "unmanteined" -> go to unmanteined repo.
Unfortunately, I think this just isn't feasible, e.g. consider the latest change in rpm which required fixing of huge amount of packages so that their patches apply without fuzz. These changes seem to happen occassionally and after some time, only few packages would manage to remain there. The best way to help is to _get_ the knowledge, and pick up few easy packages. :) It really is not as hard as it seems, once you get the courage. I wonder if there is any "easy RPM packaging" HOWTO we can point people at? -- Petr "Pasky" Baudis A lot of people have my books on their bookshelves. That's the problem, they need to read them. -- Don Knuth -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
2009/11/23 Petr Baudis <pasky@suse.cz>:
The best way to help is to _get_ the knowledge, and pick up few easy packages. :) It really is not as hard as it seems, once you get the courage. I wonder if there is any "easy RPM packaging" HOWTO we can point people at?
Perhaps Maximum RPM? openSUSE had a package to build things cleaner than you can do just by running rpm with build options on local machine. Rob -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Il lunedì 23 novembre 2009, Petr Baudis scrisse:
What about an unmanteined repo ? With packages that build without issue and without known security bugs.. No, I don't have the knowledge :) It could be done by the build server, package marked "unmanteined" -> go to unmanteined repo.
Unfortunately, I think this just isn't feasible, e.g. consider the latest change in rpm which required fixing of huge amount of packages so that their patches apply without fuzz. These changes seem to happen occassionally and after some time, only few packages would manage to remain there. But why don't try ? Nothing to loose..
The best way to help is to _get_ the knowledge, and pick up few easy packages. :) It really is not as hard as it seems, once you get the courage. I wonder if there is any "easy RPM packaging" HOWTO we can point people at?
You're right but damned time, never enough :( It's not only packaging, what if it doens't build ? Bye. -- *** Linux user # 198661 ---_ ICQ 33500725 *** *** Home http://www.kailed.net *** *** Powered by openSUSE *** -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi, 2009/11/24 Daniele <kailed@kailed.net>:
It's not only packaging, what if it doens't build ?
Then you ask on opensuse-packaging and you'll get instant help. Just try it! ;) Have fun, seife -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 12:00:46PM +0100, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
Hi,
2009/11/24 Daniele <kailed@kailed.net>:
It's not only packaging, what if it doens't build ?
Then you ask on opensuse-packaging and you'll get instant help. Just try it! ;)
I did and the whole experience was not a very nice one. I seriously tried to give it a go with one package. Just one. Not even a difficult one I think. I STILL do not know, after many months, how to do basic stuff. And nothing has happend in the mean time. I just frustrated myself and others and wasted a LOT of time that I and others could have used in a much more productive way. Please understand, everybody has its own quealities and what looks easy for one person is impossible for another. houghi -- First we thought the PC was a calculator. Then we found out how to turn numbers into letters with ASCII and we thought it was a typewriter. Then we discovered graphics, and we thought it was television. With the World Wide Web, we've realized it's a brochure. -- Douglas Adams. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
2009/11/23 Daniele <kailed@kailed.net>:
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 09:23:49AM -0300, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
On 21/11/09 14:39, Daniele wrote:
Dropped ? I hope not it's widely used and still manteined !!! If dropped, is there a valid reason ?
Package has no maintainer.
That is a huge problem. Pity I do not have the knowledge. Unfortunatly what I am seeing is that openSUSE is becoming more and more only focused on KDE/GNOME and all the rest is pushed back, except the Zypper stuff. I agree! Leafdnode -> dropped
Il lunedì 23 novembre 2009, houghi scrisse: phpMyadmin -> only in build server the list could be long..
Are so many developers gone that software that was maintained in the past does not have a maintainer anymore?
Also: is there a list of things that are being dropped because there is no maintainer?
What about an unmanteined repo ? With packages that build without issue and without known security bugs.. No, I don't have the knowledge :) It could be done by the build server, package marked "unmanteined" -> go to unmanteined repo.
Why don't you try installing an 11.1 version for now? http://download.openuse.org/distribution/11.1/repo/oss/suse/i586/leafnode-1.... I built rpm's for things not included in SuSE and usually the binaries worked fine on release upgrades. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Il lunedì 23 novembre 2009, Rob OpenSuSE scrisse:
2009/11/23 Daniele <kailed@kailed.net>:
Il lunedì 23 novembre 2009, houghi scrisse:
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 09:23:49AM -0300, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
On 21/11/09 14:39, Daniele wrote:
Dropped ? I hope not it's widely used and still manteined !!! If dropped, is there a valid reason ?
Package has no maintainer.
That is a huge problem. Pity I do not have the knowledge. Unfortunatly what I am seeing is that openSUSE is becoming more and more only focused on KDE/GNOME and all the rest is pushed back, except the Zypper stuff.
I agree! Leafdnode -> dropped phpMyadmin -> only in build server the list could be long..
Are so many developers gone that software that was maintained in the past does not have a maintainer anymore?
Also: is there a list of things that are being dropped because there is no maintainer?
What about an unmanteined repo ? With packages that build without issue and without known security bugs.. No, I don't have the knowledge :) It could be done by the build server, package marked "unmanteined" -> go to unmanteined repo.
Why don't you try installing an 11.1 version for now?
http://download.openuse.org/distribution/11.1/repo/oss/suse/i586/leaf node-1.11.6-72.37.i586.rpm Got it from factory:
dan@kailed:~> rpm -qi leafnode Name : leafnode Relocations: (not relocatable) Version : 1.11.7 Vendor: openSUSE Release : 1.3 Build Date: sab 16 mag 2009 20:29:41 CEST <snip> Bye. -- *** Linux user # 198661 ---_ ICQ 33500725 *** *** Home http://www.kailed.net *** *** Powered by openSUSE *** -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 23/11/09 11:07, houghi wrote:
what I am seeing is that openSUSE is becoming more and more only focused on KDE/GNOME and all the rest is pushed back, except the Zypper stuff.
What makes you think that ? see..there is a damn huge amount of stuff to be taken care of... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 04:48:39PM -0300, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
On 23/11/09 11:07, houghi wrote:
what I am seeing is that openSUSE is becoming more and more only focused on KDE/GNOME and all the rest is pushed back, except the Zypper stuff.
What makes you think that ?
For one they dropped leafnode.
see..there is a damn huge amount of stuff to be taken care of...
I understand and the reson why I asked if there is a list of dropped packages because of not having a packager anymore. That way we can determine how big the issue is and IF there is an issue at all. Perhaps there isn't and it would be great to have that confirmed. houghi -- First we thought the PC was a calculator. Then we found out how to turn numbers into letters with ASCII and we thought it was a typewriter. Then we discovered graphics, and we thought it was television. With the World Wide Web, we've realized it's a brochure. -- Douglas Adams. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi 2009/11/23 houghi <houghi@houghi.org>:
For one they dropped leafnode.
Holy crap. I wrote on the 20th of August that I would drop it. Nobody objected. I asked inside SUSE if anybody was using it. Nobody used it. Now it turns out that somebody still uses it. So go ahead and take the package. You will be a better maintainer than I was for the last 3 years - because I would not even have noticed if it segfaulted immediately during start, because I did not use it. Period. And it is pretty easy to maintain. I can even offer you help (meaning "you can ask me if something related to packaging does not work"), but just asking on the packagers list if there is any problem will get you instant help anyway. So why not stop complaining and start fixing? ;-) Have fun. seife -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
2009/11/24 Cristian Rodríguez <crrodriguez@opensuse.org>:
On 24/11/09 06:52, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
So why not stop complaining and start fixing? ;-)
Likely because complaining is easier than fixing ;-)
Actually, especially in the leafnode case, the energy spent complaining here would be enough to maintain the package for at least 3 years ;) Have fun, seife -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
2009/11/24 Stefan Seyfried <stefan.seyfried@googlemail.com>:
Likely because complaining is easier than fixing ;-)
Actually, especially in the leafnode case, the energy spent complaining here would be enough to maintain the package for at least 3 years ;)
I have a soft spot for leafnode, having used it extensively in the past. But I haven't used USEnet for years, if there's anything worth while there, so I would actually use it, then I may volunteer my ISP does still offer a feed and what's not to like about "low maintenance"? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 12:04:48PM +0100, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
2009/11/24 Cristian Rodríguez <crrodriguez@opensuse.org>:
On 24/11/09 06:52, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
So why not stop complaining and start fixing? ;-)
Likely because complaining is easier than fixing ;-)
Actually, especially in the leafnode case, the energy spent complaining here would be enough to maintain the package for at least 3 years ;)
You have apparently no idea how bad I am at doing things like that. ;-) And it is NOT about leafnode that I complain. It is about the whole process. You could even think about not only dropped packages, but packages that were never included. The issue is that packages are dropped apparently because there are not enough developers or maintainers. Now how much I would love to be one, I must also understand my limitations. So we should be going to the bottom and look as to why there are not enough and what we can do to change that. Do other distributions have the same issues and how do they solve it? Almost each and every package is available under Debian. How do they do that and what can we learn from that, so we can implement that or even do it better. If the answer is more package maintainers, the perhaps we must see how we can do that. What are the problems people face who are trying to become one. Perhaps the learning cruve is to big. Perhaps people are afraid of the resposability for one package. Perhaps there are other things. houghi -- First we thought the PC was a calculator. Then we found out how to turn numbers into letters with ASCII and we thought it was a typewriter. Then we discovered graphics, and we thought it was television. With the World Wide Web, we've realized it's a brochure. -- Douglas Adams. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
<snip>
Almost each and every package is available under Debian.
<snip> The Debian project also has a very long list of orphaned packages and packages up for adoption. http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/rfa_bypackage http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/orphaned Anyway, what other distros do is not necessarily our concern. Fact is that there are not enough maintainers. I do agree that a list for orphaned packages in openSUSE would be nice. This should probably be generated once a month and maybe packages that have not found a home in 6 month get dropped. Having a counter next to an orphaned package indicating how much time is left before the package gets dropped would be nice. Maybe a "popup" during install could inform people installing an orphaned package that the package is on the orphaned list and might be dropped soon. Robert -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Software Engineer Consultant LINUX rschweikert@novell.com 781-464-8147 Novell Making IT Work As One -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 08:26:05AM -0500, Robert Schweikert wrote:
The Debian project also has a very long list of orphaned packages and packages up for adoption.
http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/rfa_bypackage http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/orphaned
OK.
Anyway, what other distros do is not necessarily our concern. Fact is that there are not enough maintainers.
I agree. But look and taking what is good and leave what is bad should be the idea.
I do agree that a list for orphaned packages in openSUSE would be nice. This should probably be generated once a month and maybe packages that have not found a home in 6 month get dropped. Having a counter next to an orphaned package indicating how much time is left before the package gets dropped would be nice. Maybe a "popup" during install could inform people installing an orphaned package that the package is on the orphaned list and might be dropped soon.
That would indeed be already a good start. (next to looking how we could be getting more maintainers.) houghi -- First we thought the PC was a calculator. Then we found out how to turn numbers into letters with ASCII and we thought it was a typewriter. Then we discovered graphics, and we thought it was television. With the World Wide Web, we've realized it's a brochure. -- Douglas Adams. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 24 of November 2009, houghi wrote:
On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 12:04:48PM +0100, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
Actually, especially in the leafnode case, the energy spent complaining here would be enough to maintain the package for at least 3 years ;)
You have apparently no idea how bad I am at doing things like that. ;-)
And it is NOT about leafnode that I complain. It is about the whole process. You could even think about not only dropped packages, but packages that were never included.
The issue is that packages are dropped apparently because there are not enough developers or maintainers. Now how much I would love to be one, I must also understand my limitations.
It's sometimes amazing how much people can learn if they really would love to. Trust me, there are much more difficult things that are still doable than maintaining a reasonable package. Maybe the biggest limitation is people thinking there are limitations.
So we should be going to the bottom and look as to why there are not enough and what we can do to change that. Do other distributions have the same issues and how do they solve it?
Almost each and every package is available under Debian. How do they do that and what can we learn from that, so we can implement that or even do it better.
If the answer is more package maintainers, the perhaps we must see how we can do that. What are the problems people face who are trying to become one. Perhaps the learning cruve is to big. Perhaps people are afraid of the resposability for one package. Perhaps there are other things.
Perhaps people sometimes need to realize that 'we' includes 'I'. That, incidentally, would answer also the questions above. -- Lubos Lunak KDE developer -------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: l.lunak@suse.cz , l.lunak@kde.org Lihovarska 1060/12 tel: +420 284 084 672 190 00 Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 11/24/2009 01:51 PM, houghi wrote:
On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 12:04:48PM +0100, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
2009/11/24 Cristian Rodríguez <crrodriguez@opensuse.org>:
On 24/11/09 06:52, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
So why not stop complaining and start fixing? ;-)
Likely because complaining is easier than fixing ;-)
Actually, especially in the leafnode case, the energy spent complaining here would be enough to maintain the package for at least 3 years ;)
You have apparently no idea how bad I am at doing things like that. ;-)
And it is NOT about leafnode that I complain. It is about the whole process. You could even think about not only dropped packages, but packages that were never included.
The issue is that packages are dropped apparently because there are not enough developers or maintainers. Now how much I would love to be one, I must also understand my limitations.
So we should be going to the bottom and look as to why there are not enough and what we can do to change that. Do other distributions have the same issues and how do they solve it?
Almost each and every package is available under Debian. How do they do that and what can we learn from that, so we can implement that or even do it better.
If the answer is more package maintainers, the perhaps we must see how we can do that. What are the problems people face who are trying to become one. Perhaps the learning cruve is to big. Perhaps people are afraid of the resposability for one package. Perhaps there are other things.
houghi
I must chirp in on this thread. I'm primarily a hardware and embeded assembler person, I have a limited knowledge of linux c and c++ but I noticed a while back, on this list, that the blender package wasn't being maintained properly and ended up maintaining blender and am reading this list while waiting for the latest version to build properly. I also noticed that rosegarden needed a maintainer and took that overas well. Rosegarden uses lilypond and I've taken that package over. I have really learned a lot from research on the net, asking on the opensuse packaging, build-service and programming lists and the devel lists for the packages I maintain, including handling the bugs. Basically if I can do it there must be a lot of people out there in the community that can do it as well and help to turn openSUSE into a really good distro. It's not half as hard to maintain a package as you think and if anyone would like to be pointed in the right direction to where the knowledge is, I will be happy to help. Regards Dave P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday, 2009-11-25 at 11:44 +0200, Dave Plater wrote:
I must chirp in on this thread. I'm primarily a hardware and embeded assembler person, I have a limited knowledge of linux c and c++ but I noticed a while back, on this list, that the blender package wasn't being maintained properly and ended up maintaining blender and am reading this list while waiting for the latest version to build properly. I also noticed that rosegarden needed a maintainer and took that overas well. Rosegarden uses lilypond and I've taken that package over. I have really learned a lot from research on the net, asking on the opensuse packaging, build-service and programming lists and the devel lists for the packages I maintain, including handling the bugs. Basically if I can do it there must be a lot of people out there in the community that can do it as well and help to turn openSUSE into a really good distro. It's not half as hard to maintain a package as you think and if anyone would like to be pointed in the right direction to where the knowledge is, I will be happy to help.
I have another sugestion: Document the entire process. Put it somewhere in the oS web. You say you had to read a lot of documents on many places; you could write it up together in one place so that others can read it and see if they can collaborate or not. :-)) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAksS5pgACgkQtTMYHG2NR9Um+ACfX/9Xwy8Fp10ES6VBd+TvzwfI TskAn22G5pgadG04GDlyuIBcZKqCdAQ/ =d8NH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 11/29/2009 11:24 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On Wednesday, 2009-11-25 at 11:44 +0200, Dave Plater wrote:
I must chirp in on this thread. I'm primarily a hardware and embeded assembler person, I have a limited knowledge of linux c and c++ but I noticed a while back, on this list, that the blender package wasn't being maintained properly and ended up maintaining blender and am reading this list while waiting for the latest version to build properly. I also noticed that rosegarden needed a maintainer and took that overas well. Rosegarden uses lilypond and I've taken that package over. I have really learned a lot from research on the net, asking on the opensuse packaging, build-service and programming lists and the devel lists for the packages I maintain, including handling the bugs. Basically if I can do it there must be a lot of people out there in the community that can do it as well and help to turn openSUSE into a really good distro. It's not half as hard to maintain a package as you think and if anyone would like to be pointed in the right direction to where the knowledge is, I will be happy to help.
I have another sugestion: Document the entire process. Put it somewhere in the oS web.
You say you had to read a lot of documents on many places; you could write it up together in one place so that others can read it and see if they can collaborate or not.
The downside of maintaining packages, you sometimes don't have time for anything else but http://en.opensuse.org/SUSE_Build_Tutorial, which has a link to maximum rpm and http://en.opensuse.org/Packaging/SUSE_Package_Conventions are good starting points. I update those wiki's as well if necessary. Regards Dave P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Il martedì 24 novembre 2009, Stefan Seyfried scrisse:
Hi
2009/11/23 houghi <houghi@houghi.org>:
For one they dropped leafnode.
Holy crap. I wrote on the 20th of August that I would drop it. Where ?
bye. -- *** Linux user # 198661 ---_ ICQ 33500725 *** *** Home http://www.kailed.net *** *** Powered by openSUSE *** -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Daniele wrote:
Il martedì 24 novembre 2009, Stefan Seyfried scrisse:
Hi
2009/11/23 houghi <houghi@houghi.org>:
For one they dropped leafnode.
Holy crap. I wrote on the 20th of August that I would drop it.
Where ?
opensuse-packaging. http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-packaging/2009-08/msg00172.html Personally I doubt if many community members actually read that. /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (11.2°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 24/11/2009 18:54, Per Jessen a écrit :
Personally I doubt if many community members actually read that.
:-( some month ago I made the project to learn packaging. I was strongly discouraged... and family problems stopped the project. I think it should not be so difficult to maintain a packages already living upstream (the problem is completely different if upstream is broken). I see, for example, than digikam kde4 and doc are not maintained when the project is in very good shape. so, if the previous maintainer could write a small doc explaining what is necessary, it would be much easier to find new maintainer jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://valerie.dodin.org http://news.opensuse.org/2009/04/13/people-of-opensuse-jean-daniel-dodin/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 24/11/2009 19:28, Cristian Rodríguez a écrit :
On 24/11/09 14:59, jdd wrote:
I was strongly discouraged...
Ok, Jdd, care to explain WHY you were discouraged to do so ?
I was said it was much too difficult for me. However I usually don't stop so easily, but then I had personal problem and was obliged to drop. I always was sure a good documentation is the key. As LDP coordinator, this should not be surprising :-) However, making a completely new package may prove difficult. taking an already working package much less may be this: http://wiki.tldp.org/Debian-Binary-Package-Building-HOWTO could be a starting point (I can't say myself) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://valerie.dodin.org http://news.opensuse.org/2009/04/13/people-of-opensuse-jean-daniel-dodin/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
jdd wrote:
Le 24/11/2009 19:28, Cristian Rodríguez a écrit :
On 24/11/09 14:59, jdd wrote:
I was strongly discouraged...
Ok, Jdd, care to explain WHY you were discouraged to do so ?
I was said it was much too difficult for me. However I usually don't stop so easily, but then I had personal problem and was obliged to drop.
I always was sure a good documentation is the key. As LDP coordinator, this should not be surprising :-)
However, making a completely new package may prove difficult. taking an already working package much less
may be this:
http://wiki.tldp.org/Debian-Binary-Package-Building-HOWTO
could be a starting point (I can't say myself)
We have a place to get started as well. http://en.opensuse.org/SUSE_Build_Tutorial
jdd
-- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Software Engineer Consultant LINUX rschweikert@novell.com 781-464-8147 Novell Making IT Work As One -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 24 November 2009 13:05:36 Robert Schweikert wrote: ...
We have a place to get started as well.
And above is also the answer why more people don't do packaging. The web page is 7 screens long, and requires as prerequisite another few books reading, learning development tools, openSUSE packaging guidelines, probably one or 2 programing languages in order to fix programs that behave, in other words whole semester or more of fun, full time. Packaging is for a long time expert field. -- Regards, Rajko openSUSE Wiki Team: http://en.opensuse.org/Wiki_Team People of openSUSE: http://en.opensuse.org/People_of_openSUSE/About -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi,
On 11/25/2009 at 6:45, "Rajko M." <rmatov101@charter.net> wrote: The web page is 7 screens long, and requires as prerequisite another few books reading, learning development tools, openSUSE packaging guidelines, probably
one or 2 programing languages in order to fix programs that behave, in other
words whole semester or more of fun, full time.
Packaging is for a long time expert field.
I always say: if you can do ./configure; make; make install, then you can easily package it. This is of course the easiest type of package and is certainly not working with everything you can find upstream. But god knows, I've been doing some packages by know and this very often DOES work. I also wrote an article about such a package: http://dominique.leuenberger.net/blog/?p=5 (shameless publicity, I know.. but so be it). Just remember: a spec file is a shell script. So writing simple scripts can help. but if the 'normal' configure ; make works, there is not much to script. Give it a try! Dominique -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 11/25/2009 10:01 AM, Dominique Leuenberger wrote:
Hi,
On 11/25/2009 at 6:45, "Rajko M." <rmatov101@charter.net> wrote:
The web page is 7 screens long, and requires as prerequisite another few books reading, learning development tools, openSUSE packaging guidelines, probably
one or 2 programing languages in order to fix programs that behave, in other
words whole semester or more of fun, full time.
Packaging is for a long time expert field.
I always say: if you can do ./configure; make; make install, then you can easily package it. This is of course the easiest type of package and is certainly not working with everything you can find upstream. But god knows, I've been doing some packages by know and this very often DOES work.
I also wrote an article about such a package: http://dominique.leuenberger.net/blog/?p=5 (shameless publicity, I know.. but so be it).
Just remember: a spec file is a shell script. So writing simple scripts can help. but if the 'normal' configure ; make works, there is not much to script.
Give it a try!
Dominique
I must add that the build service has a wizard that creates an initial spec file that I've used to create a spec file from scratch for rosegarden-qt4. So all you have to do to get started is register a build service account and with the help of the osc man page and maybe ask a bit on the build service list, download the source package, create a package in your home project then upload the source package and use the wizard to create your spec file and chances are you will end up with a built package. Regards Dave P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Tue 24 Nov 2009 06:59:14 PM CET schrieb jdd <jdd@dodin.org>:
so, if the previous maintainer could write a small doc explaining what is necessary, it would be much easier to find new maintainer
Yes, but the is a big BUT. Anticipating caveats usually does not scale. It's the same with FAQs written in advance--questions not asked frequently and, if asked, the answers are not satisfying ;) New packagers are encouraged to ask questions on our fine packaging ML, if they are in trouble. Karl -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Il martedì 24 novembre 2009, Per Jessen scrisse:
Daniele wrote:
Il martedì 24 novembre 2009, Stefan Seyfried scrisse:
Hi
2009/11/23 houghi <houghi@houghi.org>:
For one they dropped leafnode.
Holy crap. I wrote on the 20th of August that I would drop it.
Where ?
opensuse-packaging.
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-packaging/2009-08/msg00172.html
Personally I doubt if many community members actually read that. Me too :( Bye.
-- *** Linux user # 198661 ---_ ICQ 33500725 *** *** Home http://www.kailed.net *** *** Powered by openSUSE *** -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 11/24/2009 07:20 PM, Daniele wrote:
opensuse-packaging.
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-packaging/2009-08/msg00172.html
Personally I doubt if many community members actually read that.
Me too :( Bye.
I think that most of the people that ever tried to package something for openSUSE are already subscribed there. These are also the people who can take over the maintainership of packages. -- Best Regards / S pozdravom, Pavol RUSNAK SUSE LINUX, s.r.o openSUSE Boosters Team Lihovarska 1060/12 PGP 0xA6917144 19000 Praha 9, CR prusnak[at]suse.cz http://www.suse.cz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Pavol Rusnak wrote:
On 11/24/2009 07:20 PM, Daniele wrote:
opensuse-packaging.
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-packaging/2009-08/msg00172.html
Personally I doubt if many community members actually read that.
Me too :( Bye.
I think that most of the people that ever tried to package something for openSUSE are already subscribed there. These are also the people who can take over the maintainership of packages.
Whereas the ones with a vested interest in a package might not be there. /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (11.0°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 07:41:11PM +0100, Pavol Rusnak wrote:
I think that most of the people that ever tried to package something for openSUSE are already subscribed there. These are also the people who can take over the maintainership of packages.
At the conference in Nuernberg it was amazing to hear how many developers where not subscribed to the developers list. Going from there I would not be surprised if people interested in packaging are not subscribed to that list. houghi -- Theologians can pursuade themselves of anything. Anyone who can worship a trinity and insists that his religion is a monotheism can believe anything -- just give him time to rationalize it. Robert A. Heinlein, JOB: A Comedy of Justice -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:20:14 +0100 Daniele <kailed@kailed.net> wrote:
Il martedì 24 novembre 2009, Per Jessen scrisse:
opensuse-packaging.
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-packaging/2009-08/msg00172.html
Personally I doubt if many community members actually read that. Me too :(
Well, I was seeking for people to take my packages over. I didn't want to SPAM all lists, so I asked where I thought the chance that somebody would step up was reasonably good. And again, I think that the leafnode package is a pretty good one to get into packaging: * it was (hopefully ;) in good shape when I abandoned it * upstream development is slow, at best * it is not heavily patched, IIRC So all you need to do for a start is to keep it up to date with changes in the build service etc. Stricter rules coming up, new compilers being more pedantic, stuff like that. That's actually much easier than it might sound, because whenever something changes in the build service, you are not the only one with the problem and common answers are given quickly on the packagers list. I also do not have the feeling that opensuse-packagers is an especially hostile place. OK, I also refrain from answering the "please can somebody explain me packaging from the beginning?" questions, because I simply don't have the time to, but there should be no need answering such questions when taking over a reasonably maintained package ;) If it really turns out being that bad, you can still drop the package, and somebody else can then step up ;-) And don't forget to have a lot of fun... seife -- "I've never seen this before." "Its a blue light." "What does it do?" "Turns blue." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
2009/11/25 Stefan Seyfried <stefan.seyfried@googlemail.com>:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:20:14 +0100 Daniele <kailed@kailed.net> wrote:
And again, I think that the leafnode package is a pretty good one to get into packaging:
* it was (hopefully ;) in good shape when I abandoned it * upstream development is slow, at best * it is not heavily patched, IIRC ... I also do not have the feeling that opensuse-packagers is an especially hostile place.
Is that where you volunteer to maintain the package, or do you need to apply somewhere else? Rob -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 2009-11-26 10:09:03 +0000, Rob OpenSuSE wrote:
2009/11/25 Stefan Seyfried <stefan.seyfried@googlemail.com>:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:20:14 +0100 Daniele <kailed@kailed.net> wrote:
And again, I think that the leafnode package is a pretty good one to get into packaging:
* it was (hopefully ;) in good shape when I abandoned it * upstream development is slow, at best * it is not heavily patched, IIRC ... I also do not have the feeling that opensuse-packagers is an especially hostile place.
Is that where you volunteer to maintain the package, or do you need to apply somewhere else?
to cut the discussion short: 1. you want to take the package? 2. if you answer yes, i can revive the package for you and give you access. darix p.s.: for more interactive questions/answers see #opensuse-buildservice on freenode. -- openSUSE - SUSE Linux is my linux openSUSE is good for you www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
2009/11/26 Marcus Rueckert <darix@opensu.se>:
to cut the discussion short: 1. you want to take the package? 2. if you answer yes, i can revive the package for you and give you access.
Update, I have been attempting to get leafnode(8) running properly but am stumped as it's not downloading the group list and filling groupinfo file. Attempt to get support from leafnode email list after subscribing failed, message sent to list day after subscription bounced telling me that I have to be subscribed. Whilst I'd be happy using it and packaging it with an active upstream that can offer support, I don't want to be put in position of effectively taking over responsibility for the project and debugging it on my own. Unless leafnode project show they're still active, I'll be giving up. Rob -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Il domenica 06 dicembre 2009, Rob OpenSuSE scrisse:
2009/11/26 Marcus Rueckert <darix@opensu.se>:
to cut the discussion short: 1. you want to take the package? 2. if you answer yes, i can revive the package for you and give you access.
Update, I have been attempting to get leafnode(8) running properly but am stumped as it's not downloading the group list and filling groupinfo file. Attempt to get support from leafnode email list after subscribing failed, message sent to list day after subscription bounced telling me that I have to be subscribed. Leafnode is working fine here!
Name : leafnode Relocations: (not relocatable) Version : 1.11.7 Vendor: openSUSE Release : 1.3 Build Date: sab 16 mag 2009 20:29:41 CEST Install Date: sab 21 nov 2009 18:46:35 CET Build Host: build27 Group : Productivity/Networking/News/Servers Source RPM: leafnode-1.11.7-1.3.src.rpm Size : 875594 License: LGPL v2.1 or later; Public Domain, Freeware; X11/MIT Signature : RSA/8, sab 16 mag 2009 20:30:02 CEST, Key ID b88b2fd43dbdc284 Packager : http://bugs.opensuse.org URL : http://sourceforge.net/projects/leafnode/ Summary : A Leaf Site NNTP Server Bye. -- *** Linux user # 198661 ---_ ICQ 33500725 *** *** Home http://www.kailed.net *** *** Powered by openSUSE *** -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
2009/12/6 Daniele <kailed@kailed.net>:
Leafnode is working fine here!
Name : leafnode Relocations: (not relocatable) Version : 1.11.7 Vendor: openSUSE
Have you had any support from the leafnode mail list? Rob -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Il domenica 06 dicembre 2009, Rob OpenSuSE scrisse:
2009/12/6 Daniele <kailed@kailed.net>:
Leafnode is working fine here!
Name : leafnode Relocations: (not relocatable) Version : 1.11.7 Vendor: openSUSE
Have you had any support from the leafnode mail list? Didn't try. I'm a simple user and for me, leafnode works very well since 10 years. 1.11.7 comes from factory repo (old 11.2 factory), installed without issue. It's ok for me. Bye.
-- *** Linux user # 198661 ---_ ICQ 33500725 *** *** Home http://www.kailed.net *** *** Powered by openSUSE *** -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Stefan Seyfried wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:20:14 +0100 Daniele <kailed@kailed.net> wrote:
Il martedì 24 novembre 2009, Per Jessen scrisse:
opensuse-packaging.
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-packaging/2009-08/msg00172.html
Personally I doubt if many community members actually read that. Me too :(
Well, I was seeking for people to take my packages over. I didn't want to SPAM all lists, so I asked where I thought the chance that somebody would step up was reasonably good.
That is where the process breaks though - you ask, nobody answers, package is dropped.
I also do not have the feeling that opensuse-packagers is an especially hostile place. OK, I also refrain from answering the "please can somebody explain me packaging from the beginning?" questions,
Surely those are the most easily answered - it's just the URL for the howto?
because I simply don't have the time to, but there should be no need answering such questions when taking over a reasonably maintained package ;)
The state of the package does not change the requirements put on the packager, me thinks. /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (8.1°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 26 November 2009 16:16:50 Per Jessen wrote:
Stefan Seyfried wrote: ...
Well, I was seeking for people to take my packages over. I didn't want to SPAM all lists, so I asked where I thought the chance that somebody would step up was reasonably good.
That is where the process breaks though - you ask, nobody answers, package is dropped. ...
Yes, and we have wiki that can provide such service like packages for adoption. Single page that can be populated with packages that need maintainer, or more pages that can be populated with different groups and more explanatory text. It is up to package maintainers to come up with required information for successful packaging so that we from wiki team can help with pages that will make nice structure that is easy to browse. -- Regards Rajko, openSUSE Wiki Team: http://en.opensuse.org/Wiki_Team People of openSUSE: http://en.opensuse.org/People_of_openSUSE/About -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
2009/11/24 Per Jessen <per@computer.org>:
opensuse-packaging. http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-packaging/2009-08/msg00172.html
Personally I doubt if many community members actually read that.
Exactly. We have release schedules, so why not put out what's planned to be dropped in the next release in an annoucement, 6 months & 4 months before. Changes like that are soft of thing one expects in release notes. Some may be superceded, some dropped through lack of upstream maintenance, or something like security issues. Telling ppl ahead that it's a package maintainer that is required, is more likely to encourage volunteers. I know it didn't work for KDE3, but that's a big project, not something that most ppl want to take on. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 24/11/09 15:31, Rob OpenSuSE wrote:
so why not put out what's planned to be dropped in the next release in an annoucement,
As far as I know, there is no such plan. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
2009/11/24 Cristian Rodríguez <crrodriguez@opensuse.org>:
On 24/11/09 15:31, Rob OpenSuSE wrote:
so why not put out what's planned to be dropped in the next release in an annoucement,
As far as I know, there is no such plan.
Perhaps there should be to de-cruft? Rob -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
2009/11/24 Rob OpenSuSE <rob.opensuse.linux@googlemail.com>:
2009/11/24 Per Jessen <per@computer.org>:
opensuse-packaging. http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-packaging/2009-08/msg00172.html
Personally I doubt if many community members actually read that.
Exactly. We have release schedules, so why not put out what's planned to be dropped in the next release in an annoucement, 6 months & 4 months before.
I doubt Stefan knew 4 months before that he was going to drop them. Packages get dropped because the maintainer stops working at Novell, because a bus runs over the maintainer or in general because of things the maintainer usually doesn't knows months in advance (if he knew he would have avoided the bus...). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
2009/11/24 Cristian Morales Vega <cmorve69@yahoo.es>:
2009/11/24 Rob OpenSuSE <rob.opensuse.linux@googlemail.com>:
Exactly. We have release schedules, so why not put out what's planned to be dropped in the next release in an annoucement, 6 months & 4 months before.
I doubt Stefan knew 4 months before that he was going to drop them. Packages get dropped because the maintainer stops working at Novell, because a bus runs over the maintainer or in general because of things the maintainer usually doesn't knows months in advance (if he knew he would have avoided the bus...).
Understood. But sometimes packages which are felt not to be heavily used, or appear to duplicate functionality might however be subject to phase out. I am a little incredulous that whether a package like leafnode, gets included in the main distro, is down to chance of whether someone feels like taking it on. The auto-generated list posted seems to be giving a lot of "false" positives, package renames or re-structuring. 2009/11/24 Per Jessen <per@computer.org>:
Pavol Rusnak wrote:
On 11/24/2009 07:20 PM, Daniele wrote:
I think that most of the people that ever tried to package something for openSUSE are already subscribed there. These are also the people who can take over the maintainership of packages.
Whereas the ones with a vested interest in a package might not be there.
Yes, if the complaint is a shortage of maintainers, than wider circulation with specific packages in need, is more likely to get some volunteers, who know at least the basics about a program. Might include ppl familiar with building packages without intention to distribute, so would not have had a reason to join OBS or the packaging list. Rob -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
participants (21)
-
Carlos E. R. -
Cristian Morales Vega -
Cristian Rodríguez -
Daniele -
Dave Plater -
Dominique Leuenberger -
houghi -
jdd -
Karl Eichwalder -
Lubos Lunak -
Ludwig Nussel -
Marcus Meissner -
Marcus Rueckert -
Michael Schroeder -
Pavol Rusnak -
Per Jessen -
Petr Baudis -
Rajko M. -
Rob OpenSuSE -
Robert Schweikert -
Stefan Seyfried