[opensuse-factory] thinking about yast2 (slowness)
Hi, all, users complained to me many times about yast2's slowness on forums.o.o, twitter or gtalk groups. (of course in a form of flame war like apt vs. yast, yum vs. yast...I don't want to say much about that.) I didn't believe it, until today I broke my zypp cache, and had to retrieve them all...and I found many ugly things. let me be clear one by one. 1. yast-ncurses. you have to use `LANG=en zypper [option]` if you set your locale to non-En environment. or texts will be displayed as unreadable ??????. see screenshot: http://paste.opensuse.org/40229867 2. if you broke your zypp cache, yast-ncurses will always tell you that you have insufficient permissions so can only see part of its modules, even you logged in with root. (maybe not producible) 3. yast have to download every local package descrs, no matter whether you need it or not. I think just download packages.en.gz and packages.your_locale.gz will be enough. (nowadays it downloads all of them...du, kr, zh_TW, pl, blabla...) and it's the cause of its slowness.. it took me 40 minutes to refresh it all...even with local mirrors on. I have a 4MB download speed, but can only download at a speed of < 10KB/s. I knew it's slow, but I don't know it's that slow... the standard procedure to use yast is: a. launch b. min it and do something else c. after half an hour, operate, min it again d. wait until it closes itself. I think we really need to improve it. like: (1) try merge package descrs among repositories. most of same packages' descrs among repos are the same. we don't need to download it several times. (2) make a daemon to download them in background when system starts. (3) give user options to not download and display descrs/summaries, but to find and install only using package names. just some ideas in thin air....I don't how to implement it. PS: I think we should remove the "OSS might be slow" string from translations and yast itself. a warning is something you can avoid and don't do it. but repositories? you have to enable it not matter how many warnings it warns, if you want to do things using it. but are those things dangerous or risky? no. come on, it's our own OSS repo. it's just slow. and can you avoid that slow? no... so it sounds to warn users something they can't change. useless and feels forcibly. it does us more harms than benefits if you think it deeper. we give our users a bad first impression that it is slow, so it has to be fast like a flash to change their such minds. Regards Marguerite -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, 28 May 2012 00:58:16 +0800 Marguerite Su wrote:
Hi, all,
users complained to me many times about yast2's slowness on forums.o.o, twitter or gtalk groups. (of course in a form of flame war like apt vs. yast, yum vs. yast...I don't want to say much about that.)
I didn't believe it, until today I broke my zypp cache, and had to retrieve them all...and I found many ugly things. let me be clear one by one.
1. yast-ncurses.
you have to use `LANG=en zypper [option]` if you set your locale to non-En environment.
or texts will be displayed as unreadable ??????.
see screenshot: http://paste.opensuse.org/40229867
2. if you broke your zypp cache, yast-ncurses will always tell you that you have insufficient permissions so can only see part of its modules, even you logged in with root. (maybe not producible)
3. yast have to download every local package descrs, no matter whether you need it or not.
I think just download packages.en.gz and packages.your_locale.gz will be enough. (nowadays it downloads all of them...du, kr, zh_TW, pl, blabla...)
and it's the cause of its slowness..
it took me 40 minutes to refresh it all...even with local mirrors on.
I have a 4MB download speed, but can only download at a speed of < 10KB/s.
I knew it's slow, but I don't know it's that slow...
the standard procedure to use yast is: a. launch b. min it and do something else c. after half an hour, operate, min it again d. wait until it closes itself.
I think we really need to improve it. like:
(1) try merge package descrs among repositories. most of same packages' descrs among repos are the same. we don't need to download it several times.
(2) make a daemon to download them in background when system starts.
(3) give user options to not download and display descrs/summaries, but to find and install only using package names.
just some ideas in thin air....I don't how to implement it.
PS: I think we should remove the "OSS might be slow" string from translations and yast itself.
a warning is something you can avoid and don't do it. but repositories?
you have to enable it not matter how many warnings it warns, if you want to do things using it.
but are those things dangerous or risky? no. come on, it's our own OSS repo. it's just slow.
and can you avoid that slow? no...
so it sounds to warn users something they can't change. useless and feels forcibly.
it does us more harms than benefits if you think it deeper.
we give our users a bad first impression that it is slow, so it has to be fast like a flash to change their such minds.
Regards
Marguerite Hi Sure it's not mirror, ipv6 or isp related?
-- Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890) openSUSE 12.1 (x86_64) Kernel 3.1.10-1.9-desktop up 2 days 0:32, 3 users, load average: 0.01, 0.03, 0.05 CPU Intel i5 CPU M520@2.40GHz | Intel Arrandale GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 1:47 AM, Malcolm
On Mon, 28 May 2012 00:58:16 +0800 Marguerite Su wrote:
Hi, all,
users complained to me many times about yast2's slowness on forums.o.o, twitter or gtalk groups. (of course in a form of flame war like apt vs. yast, yum vs. yast...I don't want to say much about that.)
I didn't believe it, until today I broke my zypp cache, and had to retrieve them all...and I found many ugly things. let me be clear one by one.
1. yast-ncurses.
you have to use `LANG=en zypper [option]` if you set your locale to non-En environment.
or texts will be displayed as unreadable ??????.
see screenshot: http://paste.opensuse.org/40229867
2. if you broke your zypp cache, yast-ncurses will always tell you that you have insufficient permissions so can only see part of its modules, even you logged in with root. (maybe not producible)
3. yast have to download every local package descrs, no matter whether you need it or not.
I think just download packages.en.gz and packages.your_locale.gz will be enough. (nowadays it downloads all of them...du, kr, zh_TW, pl, blabla...)
and it's the cause of its slowness..
it took me 40 minutes to refresh it all...even with local mirrors on.
I have a 4MB download speed, but can only download at a speed of < 10KB/s.
I knew it's slow, but I don't know it's that slow...
the standard procedure to use yast is: a. launch b. min it and do something else c. after half an hour, operate, min it again d. wait until it closes itself.
I think we really need to improve it. like:
(1) try merge package descrs among repositories. most of same packages' descrs among repos are the same. we don't need to download it several times.
(2) make a daemon to download them in background when system starts.
(3) give user options to not download and display descrs/summaries, but to find and install only using package names.
just some ideas in thin air....I don't how to implement it.
PS: I think we should remove the "OSS might be slow" string from translations and yast itself.
a warning is something you can avoid and don't do it. but repositories?
you have to enable it not matter how many warnings it warns, if you want to do things using it.
but are those things dangerous or risky? no. come on, it's our own OSS repo. it's just slow.
and can you avoid that slow? no...
so it sounds to warn users something they can't change. useless and feels forcibly.
it does us more harms than benefits if you think it deeper.
we give our users a bad first impression that it is slow, so it has to be fast like a flash to change their such minds.
Regards
Marguerite Hi Sure it's not mirror, ipv6 or isp related?
Hi, Malcolm, nope. 1. download.opensuse.org didn't work.(it once worked. but slow too) I have to manually pick the nearest mirror. the package download speed is 200KB/s, but descrs <10KB/s. 2. China only have ipv6 in its edu local-network. 3. isp...I don't know much about it. but since there're huge gap between download speed of package and package descrs. I don't think it's ISP... because no isp will limit the speed of smaller packets.... Marguerite
-- Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890) openSUSE 12.1 (x86_64) Kernel 3.1.10-1.9-desktop up 2 days 0:32, 3 users, load average: 0.01, 0.03, 0.05 CPU Intel i5 CPU M520@2.40GHz | Intel Arrandale GPU
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2012-05-27 20:51, Marguerite Su wrote:
the package download speed is 200KB/s, but descrs <10KB/s.
With the redirector, the descriptions can be downloaded from opensuse directly, but the packages from the closest mirror.
2. China only have ipv6 in its edu local-network.
Er... maybe, try editing "/root/.curlrc" and put the single line: - --ipv6 - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk/ChGAACgkQIvFNjefEBxqzvACZAcToMsIQIjweCdEPRnvudvuK mSsAn0QTfqGzGuLpzKqvq6YoKzIgPZd0 =BTlU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Malcolm wrote:
Sure it's not mirror, ipv6 or isp related?
Why would IPv6 cause a problem? The openSUSE servers have used IPv6 for quite some time and do so without problem. Also, in much of the world, IPv6 is the preferred method, as IPv4 requires large scale NAT because there are not enough IPv4 addresses for all the customers. While I have both IPv4 & IPv6 public addresses, I normally connect to openSUSE with IPv6 and it works well. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
2012/5/27 Marguerite Su :
Hi, all,
users complained to me many times about yast2's slowness on forums.o.o, twitter or gtalk groups. (of course in a form of flame war like apt vs. yast, yum vs. yast...I don't want to say much about that.)
I didn't believe it, until today I broke my zypp cache, and had to retrieve them all...and I found many ugly things. let me be clear one by one.
1. yast-ncurses.
you have to use `LANG=en zypper [option]` if you set your locale to non-En environment.
or texts will be displayed as unreadable ??????.
see screenshot: http://paste.opensuse.org/40229867
2. if you broke your zypp cache, yast-ncurses will always tell you that you have insufficient permissions so can only see part of its modules, even you logged in with root. (maybe not producible)
3. yast have to download every local package descrs, no matter whether you need it or not.
Yes, you and everyone else. It's that metadata that allows zypper to resolve dependencies and other things. If you don't have it available you defeat the whole purpose of a repository.
I think just download packages.en.gz and packages.your_locale.gz will be enough. (nowadays it downloads all of them...du, kr, zh_TW, pl, blabla...)
and it's the cause of its slowness..
it took me 40 minutes to refresh it all...even with local mirrors on.
You most likely have a transparent proxy somewhere in the middle that is introducing erratic behavior or limiting down; that sounds the most reasonable explanation.
I have a 4MB download speed, but can only download at a speed of < 10KB/s.
I can top my home line to 1.2Mbytes/sec (12Mbit ADSL); And I can get far more higher speeds through my office.
I knew it's slow, but I don't know it's that slow...
the standard procedure to use yast is: a. launch b. min it and do something else c. after half an hour, operate, min it again d. wait until it closes itself.
I think we really need to improve it. like:
(1) try merge package descrs among repositories. most of same packages' descrs among repos are the same. we don't need to download it several times.
I would belive that this would introduce chaos and havoc in operational theaters that contemplate concorrent repositories. Why should my repo metadata be replaced by some other repo metadata? Simples example: - My repo has a version of PostgreSQL without UUID support. If you merge metada and mine gets replaced with the one from a repo which has PostgreSQL built with UUID support, users will most likely get a broken PostgreSQL. You will blow up the majority of systems with concorrent repositories.
(2) make a daemon to download them in background when system starts.
Uncool stuff and bloat. How would that feature help a system with 1000 days uptime? You can easilly setup a local repo with mrepo and run a local mirror to overcome all the dificulties you are presenting.
(3) give user options to not download and display descrs/summaries, but to find and install only using package names.
You are away that by doing such, you are suggesting that we strip off zypper functionality that will affect dependency resolution? How will this help? For example: - # zypper install /usr/bin/ssh Now what does zypper do if he can't access the repo metadata? :)
just some ideas in thin air....I don't how to implement it.
PS: I think we should remove the "OSS might be slow" string from translations and yast itself.
a warning is something you can avoid and don't do it. but repositories?
you have to enable it not matter how many warnings it warns, if you want to do things using it.
but are those things dangerous or risky? no. come on, it's our own OSS repo. it's just slow.
and can you avoid that slow? no...
so it sounds to warn users something they can't change. useless and feels forcibly.
it does us more harms than benefits if you think it deeper.
we give our users a bad first impression that it is slow, so it has to be fast like a flash to change their such minds.
Please consider that there is a world outside China ;)
Regards
Marguerite -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-- Nelson Marques // I've stopped trying to understand sandwiches with a third piece of bread in the middle... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2012-05-27 18:58, Marguerite Su wrote:
(2) make a daemon to download them in background when system starts.
Actually, this is what apper and the like do. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk/ChQkACgkQIvFNjefEBxqyRwCgglvqDReCnGSAMkxB28DyZZtW /q0AniYw76e5a4xh2Z5fz0PzYX1DF1tZ =bOCi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
participants (5)
-
Carlos E. R.
-
James Knott
-
Malcolm
-
Marguerite Su
-
Nelson Marques