Tumbleweed: Nvidia (proprietary) driver 560 when? Any ETA?
Hello, I was told on the forum, that I should use mailing list for my topic so here I go. I’m eagerly awaiting the release of the Nvidia driver 560. It appears that Fedora has been using it for several months, while openSUSE is still on version 550. As a result, we’re unable to fully take advantage of Plasma’s explicit synchronization feature under Wayland, which was introduced with Plasma 6.1 a few months ago. Could you please let me know when Nvidia driver 560 will be available in Tumbleweed’s official Nvidia repository, so that we can update it easily via a simple zypper dup? Thank you for your time and assistance! Best regards, Kai
Hi 555 already supports explicit synchronization under Wayland. --> https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1219718#c28 Unfortunately with 560/CUDA 12.6 nVidia broke package dependancies, so I could not update to it. :-( Thanks, Stefan On Tue, Sep 17, 2024 at 07:09:04PM -0000, via openSUSE Factory wrote:
Hello,
I was told on the forum, that I should use mailing list for my topic so here I go.
I’m eagerly awaiting the release of the Nvidia driver 560. It appears that Fedora has been using it for several months, while openSUSE is still on version 550. As a result, we’re unable to fully take advantage of Plasma’s explicit synchronization feature under Wayland, which was introduced with Plasma 6.1 a few months ago.
Could you please let me know when Nvidia driver 560 will be available in Tumbleweed’s official Nvidia repository, so that we can update it easily via a simple zypper dup?
Thank you for your time and assistance!
Best regards, Kai
Public Key available ------------------------------------------------------ Stefan Dirsch (Res. & Dev.) SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Tel: 0911-740 53 0 Frankenstraße 146 FAX: 0911-740 53 479 D-90461 Nürnberg http://www.suse.de Germany ---------------------------------------------------------------- Geschäftsführer: Ivo Totev, Andrew Myers, Andrew McDonald, Boudien Moerman (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) ----------------------------------------------------------------
Hello, In the Message; Subject : Tumbleweed: Nvidia (proprietary) driver 560 when? Any ETA? Message-ID : <172660014441.125563.6432381645430781111@mailman3.infra.opensuse.org> Date & Time: Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:09:04 -0000 via openSUSE Factory <factory@lists.opensuse.org> has written:
Hello,
I was told on the forum, that I should use mailing list for my topic so here I go.
I’m eagerly awaiting the release of the Nvidia driver 560. It appears that Fedora has been using it for several months, while openSUSE is still on version 550. As a result, we’re unable to fully take advantage of Plasma’s explicit synchronization feature under Wayland, which was introduced with Plasma 6.1 a few months ago.
Could you please let me know when Nvidia driver 560 will be available in Tumbleweed’s official Nvidia repository, so that we can update it easily via a simple zypper dup?
The 560 driver has serious problems with X11, which is probably why it hasn't been released. https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2024/08/nvidia-driver-with-linux-kernel-6-10-c... It seems that there are no problems with Wayland, but is there no way other than installing the proprietary driver yourself? Best Regards. --- ┏━━┓彡 Masaru Nomiya mail-to: nomiya @ lake.dti.ne.jp ┃＼／彡 ┗━━┛ "Microsoft is overhauling its cybersecurity strategy, called the Secure Future Initiative, to incorporate key security features into its core set of technology platforms and cloud services. " -- Microsoft overhauls cyber strategy to finally embrace security by default --
Hello, Thanks for your reply @Stefan. I'm not sure but zypper dup doesn't seem to pull 555 on my end. Or are you refering to the Nvidia's open-drivers? I think that one does not support my GPU yet (afaik it supports Turing and up, mine is Pascal - GTX 1050 Ti). Should have mentioned that I'm focusing for Wayland and not X11, due to my gamer personality :) On xorg everything feels a bit janky but on wayland its superduper smooth. -----+ @Nomiya If you mean that installing nvidia driver by following the "hard way", I prefer not to use that approach, rumors say that using nvidia's .run file doesn't work well in the long run. Kind regards, Kai
Hello, In the Message; Subject : Re: Tumbleweed: Nvidia (proprietary) driver 560 when? Any ETA? Message-ID : <172661291000.128653.15003620866902048611@mailman3.infra.opensuse.org> Date & Time: Tue, 17 Sep 2024 22:41:50 -0000 [KS] == Kai Smith via openSUSE Factory <factory@lists.opensuse.org> has written: KS> Hello, KS> Thanks for your reply @Stefan. I'm not sure but zypper dup KS> doesn't seem to pull 555 on my end. Or are you refering to the KS> Nvidia's open-drivers? I think that one does not support my GPU KS> yet (afaik it supports Turing and up, mine is Pascal - GTX 1050 KS> Ti). The open-gpu-kernel-module supports your GPU. In fact, NVIDIA recommends that we migrate to open-gpu. KS> @Nomiya KS> If you mean that installing nvidia driver by following the "hard KS> way", I prefer not to use that approach, rumors say that using KS> nvidia's .run file doesn't work well in the long run. On SNS? Foolish rumors, as always. What you should be looking at is the change in stance towards nvidia by the kernel developers since 6.7. Best Regards. --- ┏━━┓彡 Masaru Nomiya mail-to: nomiya @ lake.dti.ne.jp ┃＼／彡 ┗━━┛ "To hire for skills, firms will need to implement robust and intentional changes in their hiring practices ― and change is hard." -- Employers don’t practice what they preach on skills-based hiring --
On Wed, Sep 18, 2024 at 09:59:30AM +0900, Masaru Nomiya wrote:
KS> Thanks for your reply @Stefan. I'm not sure but zypper dup KS> doesn't seem to pull 555 on my end. Or are you refering to the KS> Nvidia's open-drivers? I think that one does not support my GPU KS> yet (afaik it supports Turing and up, mine is Pascal - GTX 1050 KS> Ti).
The open-gpu-kernel-module supports your GPU.
That's not correct. Pascal is not yet supported by this open driver. Turing+ is. Pascal is too old.
In fact, NVIDIA recommends that we migrate to open-gpu.
That's correct though. For people using Turing+. Thanks, Stefan Public Key available ------------------------------------------------------ Stefan Dirsch (Res. & Dev.) SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Tel: 0911-740 53 0 Frankenstraße 146 FAX: 0911-740 53 479 D-90461 Nürnberg http://www.suse.de Germany ---------------------------------------------------------------- Geschäftsführer: Ivo Totev, Andrew Myers, Andrew McDonald, Boudien Moerman (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) ----------------------------------------------------------------
On Wed, Sep 18, 2024 at 06:51:39AM +0300, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
18.09.2024 01:41, Kai Smith via openSUSE Factory wrote:
Hello,
Thanks for your reply @Stefan. I'm not sure but zypper dup doesn't seem to pull 555 on my end.
zypper dup is not expected to do it automagically. Did you try to check what packages are available and install them?
I referred to https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1219718#c28 'zypper dup' isn't mentioned there at all. Thanks, Stefan Public Key available ------------------------------------------------------ Stefan Dirsch (Res. & Dev.) SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Tel: 0911-740 53 0 Frankenstraße 146 FAX: 0911-740 53 479 D-90461 Nürnberg http://www.suse.de Germany ---------------------------------------------------------------- Geschäftsführer: Ivo Totev, Andrew Myers, Andrew McDonald, Boudien Moerman (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) ----------------------------------------------------------------
I referred to
https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1219718#c28
'zypper dup' isn't mentioned there at all.
Thanks, Stefan
Public Key available ------------------------------------------------------ Stefan Dirsch (Res. & Dev.) SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Tel: 0911-740 53 0 Frankenstraße 146 FAX: 0911-740 53 479 D-90461 Nürnberg http://www.suse.de Germany ---------------------------------------------------------------- Geschäftsführer: Ivo Totev, Andrew Myers, Andrew McDonald, Boudien Moerman (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) ----------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, "only" I mentioned 'zypper dup' in my original question because that is the method I’m looking for the upgrade, rather than a DIY approach from the CUDA repo and such. I tried to make my question as straightforward as possible to get the specific information I was looking for. I was hoping the discussion wouldn’t veer off into workarounds. Please don’t take this the wrong way, but there’s a reason I’m seeking the "official", proprietary solution, rather than using the CUDA, OBS, or .run file methods. I’ve already tried the CUDA repo, and "the hard way" multiple times, both before posting here and on the forum, but I ended up having to roll back with Snapper because my screen resolution was stuck at 1024x768 instead of 1920x1080. I'm trying my best but I'm not that much technical, I'm mainly a gamer, and I'm not even sure if the CUDA driver is good for gaming or not - but doesn't matter because it's not working on my end. That said, now that I understand the reason we can’t get an ETA is because the information is somewhat confidential (? which is odd in an open-source community but it is what it is), and I respect that you have to keep it top-secret, I’m fine with that. At least whoever else tries to find the same information as I did about what is going on in the background now has something to hold on to. Kai
On 2024-09-18 11:51, Kai Smith via openSUSE Factory wrote:
That said, now that I understand the reason we can’t get an ETA is because the information is somewhat confidential (? which is odd in an open-source community but it is what it is), and I respect that you have to keep it top-secret, I’m fine with that. At least whoever else tries to find the same information as I did about what is going on in the background now has something to hold on to.
openSUSE is open-source, but nvidia is not, it is proprietary. They create the .run "driver", and with that someone in the community generates the .rpm packages. But these are not published by openSUSE or SUSE: instead they are transferred to nvidia people which then publish it on their own server (with a caveat in the readme about who is responsible for what). That is more or less the procedure, which is also not publicized. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.5 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On Wed 18 Sep 2024 08:02:55 PM CDT, Carlos E. R. wrote: <snip>
openSUSE is open-source, but nvidia is not, it is proprietary. They create the .run "driver", and with that someone in the community generates the .rpm packages. But these are not published by openSUSE or SUSE: instead they are transferred to nvidia people which then publish it on their own server (with a caveat in the readme about who is responsible for what).
That is more or less the procedure, which is also not publicized.
Hi Carlos There are nvidia-open-driver-G06 and firmware packages in the oss repo for Turing plus cards... The run files (driver or cuda) can provide open or closed source as well during installation I use the run file and open driver here... -- Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890) Tumbleweed 20240917 | GNOME Shell 46.4 | 6.10.9-1-default HP Z440 | Xeon E5-2695 V4 X36 @ 2.10GHz | ARC A380/Quadro T400 up 7:52, 3 users, load average: 0.63, 0.28, 0.09
Hello Kai Yes, I was referring to the open driver. Indeed your Pascal GPU is too old. It needs Turing (from 2018) or newer. We don't have packages for the proprietary kernel driver > 550. This will change with the next release of the production driver branch. Unfortuantely I'm not allowed to talk about the schedule. So don't ask when. ;-) Thanks, Stefan On Tue, Sep 17, 2024 at 10:41:50PM -0000, Kai Smith via openSUSE Factory wrote:
Hello,
Thanks for your reply @Stefan. I'm not sure but zypper dup doesn't seem to pull 555 on my end. Or are you refering to the Nvidia's open-drivers? I think that one does not support my GPU yet (afaik it supports Turing and up, mine is Pascal - GTX 1050 Ti).
Should have mentioned that I'm focusing for Wayland and not X11, due to my gamer personality :) On xorg everything feels a bit janky but on wayland its superduper smooth.
-----+
@Nomiya
If you mean that installing nvidia driver by following the "hard way", I prefer not to use that approach, rumors say that using nvidia's .run file doesn't work well in the long run.
Kind regards, Kai
Public Key available ------------------------------------------------------ Stefan Dirsch (Res. & Dev.) SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Tel: 0911-740 53 0 Frankenstraße 146 FAX: 0911-740 53 479 D-90461 Nürnberg http://www.suse.de Germany ---------------------------------------------------------------- Geschäftsführer: Ivo Totev, Andrew Myers, Andrew McDonald, Boudien Moerman (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) ----------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the answers Stefan. Out of curiosity, any particular reason why we only have the production branch available in Tumbleweed and not the new feature branch? Is this just a matter of manpower or are there other reasons as well? Greetings, Danny
On Wed, Sep 18, 2024 at 08:58:22AM -0000, Danny Grenningloh wrote:
Thanks for the answers Stefan.
Out of curiosity, any particular reason why we only have the production branch available in Tumbleweed and not the new feature branch? Is this just a matter of manpower or are there other reasons as well?
Manpower and also technical reason. Once I switch to feature branch driver there is no way back to make an update to the production branch driver. I made this error once. For months we had an unstable feature branch driver and people requested an update for the production driver. Otherwise we would need different driver package names for a feature branch driver. This more or less duplicates the work. We're back to manpower. Things are getting better with the additional 555 opengpu driver, which can be used together with the 555 graphics driver packages from the CUDA repository. But it lacks documentation how to install these. We would have written this documenation already, if NVIDIA wouldn't have broken it right again with 560/CUDA 12.6 release (by running "zypper dup" you might run into bigger troubles updating 555 with 560 driver packages). And it doesn't help users with Pascal or older GPUs from before year 2018 anyway. Sigh. Thanks, Stefan Public Key available ------------------------------------------------------ Stefan Dirsch (Res. & Dev.) SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Tel: 0911-740 53 0 Frankenstraße 146 FAX: 0911-740 53 479 D-90461 Nürnberg http://www.suse.de Germany ---------------------------------------------------------------- Geschäftsführer: Ivo Totev, Andrew Myers, Andrew McDonald, Boudien Moerman (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) ----------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the detailed explanation. So if I understand correctly, technically it is not really possible to include both drivers unless we use different driver package names (Which seems the most sensible anyway, I guess). However, this would cause such an extra workload that you alone can not manage this. Did I summarize this correctly? So, theoretically, if someone from the community would step up and package and maintain the feature branch driver it could be added? Or is there another show stopper in this event?
On Thu, Sep 19, 2024 at 10:23:40AM -0000, Danny wrote:
Thanks for the detailed explanation.
So if I understand correctly, technically it is not really possible to include both drivers unless we use different driver package names (Which seems the most sensible anyway, I guess). However, this would cause such an extra workload that you alone can not manage this. Did I summarize this correctly?
Yes.
So, theoretically, if someone from the community would step up and package and maintain the feature branch driver it could be added? Or is there another show stopper in this event?
Yes, this would be possible. Thanks, Stefan Public Key available ------------------------------------------------------ Stefan Dirsch (Res. & Dev.) SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Tel: 0911-740 53 0 Frankenstraße 146 FAX: 0911-740 53 479 D-90461 Nürnberg http://www.suse.de Germany ---------------------------------------------------------------- Geschäftsführer: Ivo Totev, Andrew Myers, Andrew McDonald, Boudien Moerman (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) ----------------------------------------------------------------
On Wed, Sep 18, 2024 at 06:42:50AM +0900, Masaru Nomiya wrote:
I’m eagerly awaiting the release of the Nvidia driver 560. It appears that Fedora has been using it for several months, while openSUSE is still on version 550. As a result, we’re unable to fully take advantage of Plasma’s explicit synchronization feature under Wayland, which was introduced with Plasma 6.1 a few months ago.
Could you please let me know when Nvidia driver 560 will be available in Tumbleweed’s official Nvidia repository, so that we can update it easily via a simple zypper dup?
The 560 driver has serious problems with X11, which is probably why it hasn't been released.
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2024/08/nvidia-driver-with-linux-kernel-6-10-c...
No, this hasn't been the reason, but thanks for the pointer!
It seems that there are no problems with Wayland, but is there no way other than installing the proprietary driver yourself?
Meanwhile we know that he still has a Pascal GPU, which isn't supported yet by the opengpu driver. Thanks, Stefan Public Key available ------------------------------------------------------ Stefan Dirsch (Res. & Dev.) SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Tel: 0911-740 53 0 Frankenstraße 146 FAX: 0911-740 53 479 D-90461 Nürnberg http://www.suse.de Germany ---------------------------------------------------------------- Geschäftsführer: Ivo Totev, Andrew Myers, Andrew McDonald, Boudien Moerman (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) ----------------------------------------------------------------
Hello, In the Message; Subject : Re: Tumbleweed: Nvidia (proprietary) driver 560 when? Any ETA? Message-ID : <ZuqHdReOvuLBNl5l@suse.de> Date & Time: Wed, 18 Sep 2024 09:55:33 +0200 [SD] == Stefan Dirsch <sndirsch@suse.com> has written: SD> On Wed, Sep 18, 2024 at 06:42:50AM +0900, Masaru Nomiya wrote: [...] MN> > The 560 driver has serious problems with X11, which is probably why it MN> > hasn't been released. MN> > https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2024/08/nvidia-driver-with-linux-kernel-6-10-c... SD> No, this hasn't been the reason, but thanks for the pointer! Are you saying that there are no problems with the nvidia drivers? I'm having problems with a strange phenomenon that became apparent with kernel 6.10. When I looked back, it was indeed a problem that had occurred since kernel 6.7. Did you read this email from Carlos? In the Message; Subject : Re: Again: error with kernel 6.8.1-1 when compiling nVidia Message-ID : <87ef2b94-a54c-4b25-bb6c-629722dad03d@telefonica.net> Date & Time: Tue, 20 Aug 2024 14:07:19 +0200 [CER] == "Carlos E. R." <robin.listas@telefonica.net> has written: CER> [1 <multipart/mixed (7bit)>] CER> [1.1 <text/plain; UTF-8 (base64)>] CER> On 2024-03-23 19:13, Andrei Borzenkov wrote: CER> > On 23.03.2024 19:07, Peter Maffter wrote: CER> >> I expected that someone can explain to me, why they simply dropped out CER> >> DRM_UNLOCKED CER> > CER> > Author: Thomas Zimmermann <tzimmermann@suse.de> CER> > Date: Wed Nov 22 13:09:40 2023 +0100 CER> > CER> > drm: Remove locking for legacy ioctls and DRM_UNLOCKED CER> > CER> > Modern DRM drivers acquire ioctl locks by themselves. Legacy ioctls CER> > for user-space mode setting used to acquire drm_global_mutex. After CER> > removing the ioctl entry points, also remove the locking code. The only CER> > legacy ioctl without global locking was VBLANK_WAIT, which has been CER> > removed as well. Hence remove the related DRM_UNLOCKED flag. CER> > CER> > Signed-off-by: Thomas Zimmermann <tzimmermann@suse.de> CER> > Reviewed-by: David Airlie <airlied@gmail.com> CER> > Reviewed-by: Daniel Vetter <daniel@ffwll.ch> CER> > Acked-by: Alex Deucher <alexander.deucher@amd.com> CER> > Link: CER> > https://patchwork.freedesktop.org/patch/msgid/20231122122449.11588-12-tzimme... CER> It is very interesting to see that the kernel developers claim CER> that nobody uses this variable, intentionally ignoring that CER> nvidia uses it. Politically interesting, that is, and of course CER> intentional, as they hate one another, considering what Linus CER> said about Nvidia some years ago. :-D CER> Me, gladly not buying nvidia anymore. I now understand. Anyway, MN> > It seems that there are no problems with Wayland, but is there MN> > no way other than installing the proprietary driver yourself? SD> Meanwhile we know that he still has a Pascal GPU, which isn't SD> supported yet by the opengpu driver. I wrote in the email that Kai was a user of the GTX 1050 Ti and wanted the 560 driver, and I had indeed confirmed that the 560 driver was supported on the nvidia website. Can you tell me what is wrong with this? Best Regards & Good Night. --- ┏━━┓彡 Masaru Nomiya mail-to: nomiya @ lake.dti.ne.jp ┃＼／彡 ┗━━┛ " Hassabis says that no one really knows for sure that AI will become a major danger. But he is certain that if progress continues at its current pace, there isn’t much time to develop safeguards. "I can see the kinds of things we're building into the Gemini series right, and we have no reason to believe that they won't work," he says." -- "Google DeepMind's CEO Says Its Next Algorithm Will Eclipse ChatGPT" --
On Wed, Sep 18, 2024 at 07:46:06PM +0900, Masaru Nomiya wrote:
MN> > The 560 driver has serious problems with X11, which is probably why it MN> > hasn't been released.
MN> > https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2024/08/nvidia-driver-with-linux-kernel-6-10-c...
SD> No, this hasn't been the reason, but thanks for the pointer!
Are you saying that there are no problems with the nvidia drivers?
I never claimed that.
Did you read this email from Carlos?
No.
I wrote in the email that Kai was a user of the GTX 1050 Ti and wanted the 560 driver, and I had indeed confirmed that the 560 driver was supported on the nvidia website. Can you tell me what is wrong with this?
You claimed that the opengpu kernel driver would support it, which is just wrong. Indeed the proprietary kernel driver still supports it. Stefan Public Key available ------------------------------------------------------ Stefan Dirsch (Res. & Dev.) SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Tel: 0911-740 53 0 Frankenstraße 146 FAX: 0911-740 53 479 D-90461 Nürnberg http://www.suse.de Germany ---------------------------------------------------------------- Geschäftsführer: Ivo Totev, Andrew Myers, Andrew McDonald, Boudien Moerman (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) ----------------------------------------------------------------
Hello, In the Message; Subject : Re: Tumbleweed: Nvidia (proprietary) driver 560 when? Any ETA? Message-ID : <umkstkpuvjjdnvc6gzyef6ovlibjsedkxjgmomnk4jj3ms4jw6@rxrjwhecgrs5> Date & Time: Wed, 18 Sep 2024 14:08:05 +0200 [SD] == Stefan Dirsch via openSUSE Factory <factory@lists.opensuse.org> has written: SD> On Wed, Sep 18, 2024 at 07:46:06PM +0900, Masaru Nomiya wrote: [...] MN> > I wrote in the email that Kai was a user of the GTX 1050 Ti and wanted MN> > the 560 driver, and I had indeed confirmed that the 560 driver was MN> > supported on the nvidia website. Can you tell me what is wrong with MN> > this? SD> You claimed that the opengpu kernel driver would support it, SD> which is just wrong. Indeed the proprietary kernel driver still SD> supports it. What! From [1], Note that the kernel modules built here must be used with GSP firmware and user-space NVIDIA GPU driver components from a corresponding 560.35.03 driver release. This can be achieved by installing the NVIDIA GPU driver from the .run file using the --no-kernel-modules option. E.g., sh ./NVIDIA-Linux-[...].run --no-kernel-modules On [2], Linux x64 (AMD64/EM64T) Display Driver 560.35.03 | Linux 64-bit [...] Supported Products [...] GeForce 10 Series GeForce GTX 1080 Ti, GeForce GTX 1080, GeForce GTX 1070 Ti, GeForce GTX 1070, GeForce GTX 1060, GeForce GTX 1050 Ti, GeForce GTX 1050, GeForce GT 1030, GeForce GT 1010 Is Kai's GPU different from the GeForce GTX 1050 Ti described here? [1] https://github.com/NVIDIA/open-gpu-kernel-modules [2] https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/drivers/details/230918/ Best Regards. --- ┏━━┓彡 Masaru Nomiya mail-to: nomiya @ lake.dti.ne.jp ┃＼／彡 ┗━━┛ Think! -- The IBM slogan --
Hello, In the Message; Subject : Re: Tumbleweed: Nvidia (proprietary) driver 560 when? Any ETA? Message-ID : <87wmj81rqt.wl-nomiya@lake.dti.ne.jp> Date & Time: Thu, 19 Sep 2024 08:12:10 +0900 [MN] == Masaru Nomiya <nomiya@lake.dti.ne.jp> has written: [...] SD> You claimed that the opengpu kernel driver would support it, SD> which is just wrong. Indeed the proprietary kernel driver still SD> supports it. MN> What! [...] MN> [1] https://github.com/NVIDIA/open-gpu-kernel-modules MN> [2] https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/drivers/details/230918/ I realized that I was misunderstanding what you were saying. I'm so sorry. Best Regards. --- ┏━━┓彡 Masaru Nomiya mail-to: nomiya @ lake.dti.ne.jp ┃＼／彡 ┗━━┛ "To hire for skills, firms will need to implement robust and intentional changes in their hiring practices ― and change is hard." -- Employers don’t practice what they preach on skills-based hiring --
participants (9)
-
a3a6k8rqo＠mozmail.com -
Andrei Borzenkov -
Carlos E. R. -
Danny -
Danny Grenningloh
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Kai Smith
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Malcolm -
Masaru Nomiya -
Stefan Dirsch