[opensuse-factory] Tumblweed has switched to 12.1 and is now empty
Just a short note saying that openSUSE:Tumbleweed has switched over to be based on 12.1, and because of that, it is now "empty". Have fun, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 16.11.2011 23:52, Greg KH wrote:
Just a short note saying that openSUSE:Tumbleweed has switched over to be based on 12.1, and because of that, it is now "empty".
I learned that in a surprising way. I had thought that the installed packages in my 11.4 based TW were about the same as the new "current" and that now there would only be a moderate upgrade to the new 12.1 based TW. This was, I thought, the idea, rolling on without major version upgrades in the first place. Zypper dup installed about everything, over 1200 packages. I think it would have been the same when dup:ing a basic 11.4 installation to 12.1? Was this major upgrade that took place the plan? Or was it maybe because of using a local mirror that wasn't set up properly before my upgrade? Vahis -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Le 17/11/2011 09:14, Vahis a écrit :
Zypper dup installed about everything, over 1200 packages.
I do not use tumbelweed, but factory and I think that for the final release all the packages have been recompiled and they date setup accordingly, because I had the same result from RC2 to GM nothing to surprise me though, it's very often the case jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 17.11.2011 12:21, jdd wrote:
Le 17/11/2011 09:14, Vahis a écrit :
Zypper dup installed about everything, over 1200 packages.
I do not use tumbelweed, but factory and I think that for the final release all the packages have been recompiled and they date setup accordingly, because I had the same result from RC2 to GM
nothing to surprise me though, it's very often the case
Not exactly a rolling release though. Vahis -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2011-11-16T13:52:20, Greg KH <gregkh@suse.de> wrote:
Just a short note saying that openSUSE:Tumbleweed has switched over to be based on 12.1, and because of that, it is now "empty".
Hey Greg, with all due respect, dropping Tumbleweed for 11.4 within a few days of 12.1 is *not* a respectful way of handling your users. Suddenly, you're pulling out all updates from underneath them, no more ability to update, even while 11.4 is still maintained. Putting 11.4-Tumbleweed into maintenance mode and no longer adding any (significant) updates is something else entirely, perhaps even saying "Oh, and by the way, I'll flush it in a month or two" if there's a good reason for doing so. But, you know, sometimes people are on a business trip or at a conference and just didn't have time to go to 12.1 yet. Does the concept of "transition period" ring a bell? And just changing the base version underneath the existing Tumbleweed channel is not exactly an awesome idea either. Makes it too easy to accidentally add Tumbleweed to the wrong base repository, or not notice this change and then suddenly being very surprised. I'd kindly ask you to reconsider your policy for maintaing and phasing out Tumbleweed releases going forward. Right now, I'm really quite annoyed. Regards, Lars -- Architect Storage/HA SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes." -- Oscar Wilde -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday, November 17, 2011 09:40:25 Lars Marowsky-Bree wrote:
On 2011-11-16T13:52:20, Greg KH <gregkh@suse.de> wrote:
Just a short note saying that openSUSE:Tumbleweed has switched over to be based on 12.1, and because of that, it is now "empty".
Hey Greg,
with all due respect, dropping Tumbleweed for 11.4 within a few days of 12.1 is *not* a respectful way of handling your users.
Hi Lars, As Tumbleweed is still a bit new, you had to make some changes to your repos due to the 12.1 release. This was mentioned in the announcement, see news.o.o. Yes, we could have handled this better, like mentioning it earlier on the Tumbleweed wiki page, on this mailing list and other places. Apologies for that. Next time, those who have set up tumbleweed properly (using the 'current' repo) will not notice much of releases (other than a slightly larger set of changed packages than usual). This is the idea of a rolling release: you slowly move from one release to the next, without huge changes at any point. Asking for 'Tumbleweed for 11.4' is like asking for icecream on your fries. Surely you can do it but it doesn't make any sense and you surely didn't get the point of either fries or icecream. Have a lot of fun!
Suddenly, you're pulling out all updates from underneath them, no more ability to update, even while 11.4 is still maintained.
Putting 11.4-Tumbleweed into maintenance mode and no longer adding any (significant) updates is something else entirely, perhaps even saying "Oh, and by the way, I'll flush it in a month or two" if there's a good reason for doing so.
But, you know, sometimes people are on a business trip or at a conference and just didn't have time to go to 12.1 yet. Does the concept of "transition period" ring a bell?
And just changing the base version underneath the existing Tumbleweed channel is not exactly an awesome idea either. Makes it too easy to accidentally add Tumbleweed to the wrong base repository, or not notice this change and then suddenly being very surprised.
I'd kindly ask you to reconsider your policy for maintaing and phasing out Tumbleweed releases going forward. Right now, I'm really quite annoyed.
Regards, Lars
On 2011-11-19T00:44:11, Jos Poortvliet <jos@opensuse.org> wrote:
Next time, those who have set up tumbleweed properly (using the 'current' repo) will not notice much of releases (other than a slightly larger set of changed packages than usual). This is the idea of a rolling release: you slowly move from one release to the next, without huge changes at any point.
Exactly; but it wasn't rolling. The repo was, effectively, a distro-version-specific add-on for 11.4. And that should just have been left around in the state it was on, instead of pulling updates that were available. A "rolling release" rarely should see such large jumps, btw. Most of the time the updates should be phased in.
Asking for 'Tumbleweed for 11.4' is like asking for icecream on your fries. Surely you can do it but it doesn't make any sense and you surely didn't get the point of either fries or icecream.
Kindly don't be so condescending, and kindly don't misquote. I didn't ask for an on-going tumbleweed on 11.4 (that would indeed be silly), just that updates shouldn't suddenly disappear, and re-using a repository that had 11.4 updates for 12.1 ones is not very nice. Given the previous channel setup, a new channel for 12.1 would have been advisable. If we had a true rolling distribution, yes, that point would be moot. Regards, Lars -- Architect Storage/HA SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes." -- Oscar Wilde -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
participants (5)
-
Greg KH -
jdd -
Jos Poortvliet -
Lars Marowsky-Bree -
Vahis