[opensuse-factory] Why group dialout for /etc/ppp?
Hi, does somebody know why the group of /etc/ppp is dialout? It looks like a very old leftover, for pppd it doesn't seem to be needed. To continue the cleanup of the systemusers, I would like to remove this, so that the "filesystem" package only contains directories owned by root and nothing else. This would also allow to finish the split of the system users from aaa_base. Thorsten -- Thorsten Kukuk, Distinguished Engineer, Senior Architect SLES & CaaSP SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany GF: Felix Imendoerffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nuernberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Hi Thorsten, Am 23.05.2017 um 21:16 schrieb Thorsten Kukuk:
To continue the cleanup of the systemusers, I would like to remove this, so that the "filesystem" package only contains directories owned by root and nothing else. This would also allow to finish the split of the system users from aaa_base.
Sadly no one seems to have bothered to think about the ARM JeOS images during those "cleanups", resulting in several udev errors about users being unknown on first boot of Kiwi OEM images. So please either tell us (e.g., on opensuse-arm list) which changes we need to do, or make an SR yourself after changing things in Factory. If we're not told about what is changing and what we may need to do, it's hard for me to fix it on my own. Cf. packagelist.inc in https://build.opensuse.org/request/show/497396 I don't know whether this was a bug in udev or in Kiwi or whether my workaround is the expected solution... We just see the symptoms here. Thanks, Andreas -- SUSE Linux GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, May 23, Andreas Färber wrote:
Hi Thorsten,
Am 23.05.2017 um 21:16 schrieb Thorsten Kukuk:
To continue the cleanup of the systemusers, I would like to remove this, so that the "filesystem" package only contains directories owned by root and nothing else. This would also allow to finish the split of the system users from aaa_base.
Sadly no one seems to have bothered to think about the ARM JeOS images during those "cleanups", resulting in several udev errors about users being unknown on first boot of Kiwi OEM images.
So please either tell us (e.g., on opensuse-arm list) which changes we need to do, or make an SR yourself after changing things in Factory. If we're not told about what is changing and what we may need to do, it's hard for me to fix it on my own.
How this works was announced on factory and packaging mailing list. If you use the patterns, it should just work for you like for everybody else. If you maintain your own package list and not using patterns, you need to follow the changes and add missing packages yourself. Normally, all packages needing system users or groups need to require them. udev is here a special case, since we don't want dependency loops and don't know in advance what udev needs. Thorsten -- Thorsten Kukuk, Distinguished Engineer, Senior Architect SLES & CaaSP SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany GF: Felix Imendoerffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nuernberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/24/2017 04:46 AM, Thorsten Kukuk wrote:
Hi,
does somebody know why the group of /etc/ppp is dialout? It looks like a very old leftover, for pppd it doesn't seem to be needed.
To continue the cleanup of the systemusers, I would like to remove this, so that the "filesystem" package only contains directories owned by root and nothing else. This would also allow to finish the split of the system users from aaa_base.
Thorsten
Not sure if its specifically the reason but historically anything wishing to access the serial port needed to be part of the dialout group. pppd would need to be part of dialout to open a serial port so I guess they were lazy and used that group rather then creating there own. "ll /dev/ttyS*" will show you that all serial ports are still part of the dialout group, so removing it will likely break things. (I added myself back to the dialout group last week to talk to a device over a USB Serial interface with minicom). I guess you could make any application talking to a serial port Require that group but that would still leave unknown groups in /dev/ for those not using it. Swapping serial ports to use a group other then dialout would make us different to any other distro and I guess could break things. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
Am 24.05.2017 um 08:16 schrieb Thorsten Kukuk:
On Tue, May 23, Andreas Färber wrote:
Hi Thorsten,
Am 23.05.2017 um 21:16 schrieb Thorsten Kukuk:
To continue the cleanup of the systemusers, I would like to remove this, so that the "filesystem" package only contains directories owned by root and nothing else. This would also allow to finish the split of the system users from aaa_base.
Sadly no one seems to have bothered to think about the ARM JeOS images during those "cleanups", resulting in several udev errors about users being unknown on first boot of Kiwi OEM images.
So please either tell us (e.g., on opensuse-arm list) which changes we need to do, or make an SR yourself after changing things in Factory. If we're not told about what is changing and what we may need to do, it's hard for me to fix it on my own.
How this works was announced on factory and packaging mailing list.
Really? I just see an RFC from February on packaging list, which is different from telling us that action is needed now. After that I only see complaints that users wwwrun and nobody are gone.
If you use the patterns, it should just work for you like for everybody else. If you maintain your own package list and not using patterns, you need to follow the changes and add missing packages yourself.
I did not take either decision. I am downloading tarballs or .raw.xz files that were now broken, and I am seeing that communication is bad trying to investigate how to fix. Your RFC said nothing about udev. If you hide big announcements in package changelogs in Tumbleweed reviews or wherever, that's not the same as actively making sure that system installation doesn't break by letting people know visibly about changes they need to make. Regards, Andreas -- SUSE Linux GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, May 24, Simon Lees wrote:
Not sure if its specifically the reason but historically anything wishing to access the serial port needed to be part of the dialout group. pppd would need to be part of dialout to open a serial port so I guess they were lazy and used that group rather then creating there own.
pppd is not part of the dialout group today.
"ll /dev/ttyS*" will show you that all serial ports are still part of the dialout group, so removing it will likely break things. (I added myself back to the dialout group last week to talk to a device over a USB Serial interface with minicom).
The access rights of /dev/ttyS* have nothing to do with access rights to /etc/ppp. And I don't speak about removing users from some groups or adding them. Thorsten -- Thorsten Kukuk, Distinguished Engineer, Senior Architect SLES & CaaSP SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany GF: Felix Imendoerffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nuernberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/24/2017 06:51 PM, Thorsten Kukuk wrote:
On Wed, May 24, Simon Lees wrote:
Not sure if its specifically the reason but historically anything wishing to access the serial port needed to be part of the dialout group. pppd would need to be part of dialout to open a serial port so I guess they were lazy and used that group rather then creating there own.
pppd is not part of the dialout group today.
"ll /dev/ttyS*" will show you that all serial ports are still part of the dialout group, so removing it will likely break things. (I added myself back to the dialout group last week to talk to a device over a USB Serial interface with minicom).
The access rights of /dev/ttyS* have nothing to do with access rights to /etc/ppp.
Ok, In a previous age ppp would have likely used a serial dialup modem and to do so would have been a member of dialout which is likely where this came from. I was just trying to point out the history of how things used to be. Myself I have only configured ppp once and that was on a debian machine but maybe surprisingly only 2-3 years back. (Its amazing the technology some companies still use) -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
On Wednesday 24 May 2017, Simon Lees wrote:
On 05/24/2017 06:51 PM, Thorsten Kukuk wrote:
On Wed, May 24, Simon Lees wrote:
Not sure if its specifically the reason but historically anything wishing to access the serial port needed to be part of the dialout group. pppd would need to be part of dialout to open a serial port so I guess they were lazy and used that group rather then creating there own.
pppd is not part of the dialout group today.
"ll /dev/ttyS*" will show you that all serial ports are still part of the dialout group, so removing it will likely break things. (I added myself back to the dialout group last week to talk to a device over a USB Serial interface with minicom).
The access rights of /dev/ttyS* have nothing to do with access rights to /etc/ppp.
Ok, In a previous age ppp would have likely used a serial dialup modem and to do so would have been a member of dialout which is likely where this came from. I was just trying to point out the history of how things used to be.
Myself I have only configured ppp once and that was on a debian machine but maybe surprisingly only 2-3 years back. (Its amazing the technology some companies still use)
What is wrong with ppp? Why shouldn't it be used? cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
participants (4)
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Andreas Färber -
Ruediger Meier -
Simon Lees -
Thorsten Kukuk