[opensuse-factory] Audio mixer
The new version of Opensuse, will offer a decent audio mixer under KDE4? I'm using SuSE, from the version 6.3, and in alll versions, the audio mixer hate plenty controls, but now with Opensuse 11.4, the audio mixer (kmix, or alsamixer), when I try to add more channels (the real channels of the audio card), it fails to add channels, and with proffessional audio cards like ESI waveterminal 192M, only I can hear the right channel. http://www.esi-audio.com/products/wt192m/ Regards -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 13/08/11 12:55, Juan Erbes wrote:
The new version of Opensuse, will offer a decent audio mixer under KDE4?
I'm using SuSE, from the version 6.3, and in alll versions, the audio mixer hate plenty controls, but now with Opensuse 11.4, the audio mixer (kmix, or alsamixer), when I try to add more channels (the real channels of the audio card), it fails to add channels, and with proffessional audio cards like ESI waveterminal 192M, only I can hear the right channel.
http://www.esi-audio.com/products/wt192m/
Regards
I am not sure if this will be of help to you but I always have a problem with my Audigy sound card - and it's all because of pulseaudio. Have you tried this: * in YaST, under Sound deselect pulseaudio in the Other options (bottom right); * install alsamixer and run it on a command line (in a terminal; * press F6 to select your audio card, then press F5 to see all the available channels; * use "m" to mute/unmute a channel, and use the up/down keys to raise lower the volume; * when doing the above it always helps to have something running which outputs sound so that you can hear which channels are operating when you use "m" key. BC -- "To know that we know what we know, and that we do not know what we do not know, that is true knowledge." Confucius -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Friday, August 12, 2011 10:13:31 PM Basil Chupin wrote:
* in YaST, under Sound deselect pulseaudio in the Other options (bottom right);
As soon as you disable PA (pulseaudio) and restart KMix you will have all channels. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 13/08/11 17:08, Rajko M. wrote:
On Friday, August 12, 2011 10:13:31 PM Basil Chupin wrote:
* in YaST, under Sound deselect pulseaudio in the Other options (bottom right); As soon as you disable PA (pulseaudio) and restart KMix you will have all channels.
It may appear that we are talking about different applications here because I just tried engaging KMIX and didn't see anything like the channels one sees in alsamixer. BC -- "To know that we know what we know, and that we do not know what we do not know, that is true knowledge." Confucius -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday, August 13, 2011 02:35:33 AM Basil Chupin wrote:
It may appear that we are talking about different applications here because I just tried engaging KMIX and didn't see anything like the channels one sees in alsamixer.
Yes, it is that KMix :) Maybe simple relogin, or reboot should come between not having and having channels. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 13/08/11 18:38, Rajko M. wrote:
On Saturday, August 13, 2011 02:35:33 AM Basil Chupin wrote:
It may appear that we are talking about different applications here because I just tried engaging KMIX and didn't see anything like the channels one sees in alsamixer. Yes, it is that KMix :)
Maybe simple relogin, or reboot should come between not having and having channels.
Pete gave the magical incantation on how to produce the channels :-) . And the way the channels are presented there are as useful as tits on a bull, AFAIAC. I'll stay with alsamixer/alsamixergui, thanks very much, where "channels are channels" :-) . BC -- "To know that we know what we know, and that we do not know what we do not know, that is true knowledge." Confucius -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 13 August 2011 08:35:33 Basil Chupin wrote:
On 13/08/11 17:08, Rajko M. wrote:
On Friday, August 12, 2011 10:13:31 PM Basil Chupin wrote:
* in YaST, under Sound deselect pulseaudio in the Other options (bottom right);
As soon as you disable PA (pulseaudio) and restart KMix you will have all channels.
It may appear that we are talking about different applications here because I just tried engaging KMIX and didn't see anything like the channels one sees in alsamixer.
BC
PulseAudio really screws with Kmix on this system each slider has it's own tab stupid idea if you dont want any of the claimed bennifits of PA (note i said claimed cus i could not find ONE) then get rid of it . As for Kmix and missing sliders right click on the mixer is a vacant space pick select channels and add or remove at your leisure although with some audio chips the choice is very limited Pete . -- Powered by openSUSE 11.3 (x86_64) Kernel: 2.6.34.10-0.2-desktop KDE Development Platform: 4.6.00 (4.6.0) 09:55 up 4 days 18:51, 4 users, load average: 0.07, 0.13, 0.09 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Peter Nikolic wrote:
On Saturday 13 August 2011 08:35:33 Basil Chupin wrote:
On 13/08/11 17:08, Rajko M. wrote:
On Friday, August 12, 2011 10:13:31 PM Basil Chupin wrote:
* in YaST, under Sound deselect pulseaudio in the Other options (bottom right);
As soon as you disable PA (pulseaudio) and restart KMix you will have all channels.
It may appear that we are talking about different applications here because I just tried engaging KMIX and didn't see anything like the channels one sees in alsamixer.
BC
PulseAudio really screws with Kmix on this system each slider has it's own tab stupid idea if you dont want any of the claimed bennifits of PA (note i said claimed cus i could not find ONE) then get rid of it .
As for Kmix and missing sliders right click on the mixer is a vacant space pick select channels and add or remove at your leisure although with some audio chips the choice is very limited
Pete .
I have disabled Pulse for a long time because, although the concept is nice, it's broken as far as any use I might have. Same old story, devs all want to tout "All hail me for all the new features I've added..." and socialize at community get-togethers for mutual ego stroking but nobody wants to do the unglamorous and hidden grunt work of fixing problems. </rant> I don't know if this may have changed in later times, but I remember once upon a time there used to be two KMix's, one "normal" and the other a "KMix- PulseAudio". I remember when trying to use Pulse having to remove the former and install the latter and reversing it when I ultimately always ended up disabling PulseAudio. I won't use Pulse because for way too long (numerous versions full of new 'features') any system notification will cause a loud clicking "spitch". It's especially annoying when playing music and this happens. Been doing this for years and doesn't seem it's going to get fixed anytime soon. -Mike -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Peter Nikolic wrote:
On Saturday 13 August 2011 08:35:33 Basil Chupin wrote:
On 13/08/11 17:08, Rajko M. wrote:
On Friday, August 12, 2011 10:13:31 PM Basil Chupin wrote:
* in YaST, under Sound deselect pulseaudio in the Other options (bottom right); As soon as you disable PA (pulseaudio) and restart KMix you will have all channels. It may appear that we are talking about different applications here because I just tried engaging KMIX and didn't see anything like the channels one sees in alsamixer.
BC PulseAudio really screws with Kmix on this system each slider has it's own tab stupid idea if you dont want any of the claimed bennifits of PA (note i said claimed cus i could not find ONE) then get rid of it .
As for Kmix and missing sliders right click on the mixer is a vacant space pick select channels and add or remove at your leisure although with some audio chips the choice is very limited
Pete .
I have disabled Pulse for a long time because, although the concept is nice, it's broken as far as any use I might have. Same old story, devs all want to tout "All hail me for all the new features I've added..." and socialize at community get-togethers for mutual ego stroking but nobody wants to do the unglamorous and hidden grunt work of fixing problems. </rant>
I don't know if this may have changed in later times, but I remember once upon a time there used to be two KMix's, one "normal" and the other a "KMix- PulseAudio". I remember when trying to use Pulse having to remove the former and install the latter and reversing it when I ultimately always ended up disabling PulseAudio.
I won't use Pulse because for way too long (numerous versions full of new 'features') any system notification will cause a loud clicking "spitch". This 'spitch' issue has been in openFATE for almost a year now. If it actually is
On 08/13/2011 01:55 PM, Michael Powell wrote: the same that annoys you. I almost got deaf while listening to music on my laptop + headphones. https://features.opensuse.org/310668 Just add this line to /etc/pulse/daemon.conf: flat-volumes = no R.
It's especially annoying when playing music and this happens. Been doing this for years and doesn't seem it's going to get fixed anytime soon.
-Mike
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madworm_de.novell@spitzenpfeil.org wrote: [snip[
This 'spitch' issue has been in openFATE for almost a year now. If it actually is the same that annoys you. I almost got deaf while listening to music on my laptop + headphones.
Yup - it's been that way for a while.
https://features.opensuse.org/310668
Just add this line to /etc/pulse/daemon.conf:
flat-volumes = no
Thanks - nice to know. Will give it a try next time I evaluate Pulse Audio. Every so often around major release time I look over past deficiencies to look for improvements. When something is better than what it replaces I go with it, if not I use what was. Case in point: Gstreamer and VLC backends for Phonon still have no equalizer last time I played around. Since when I listen to MP3 streams as quiet background music it is really nice to tweak the response curves when volume is low. SO I still use phonon-xine backend. My problem with the latest and greatest 'new and improved' is I don't consider it useful to me if it isn't at least able to perform features that were once contained in what went before. When 'new and improved with wazoo new features' kills off useful functionality just for the sake of being 'new' I consider it 2 steps forward with 3 back. -Mike -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 13/08/11 22:41, Michael Powell wrote:
madworm_de.novell@spitzenpfeil.org wrote:
[snip[
This 'spitch' issue has been in openFATE for almost a year now. If it actually is the same that annoys you. I almost got deaf while listening to music on my laptop + headphones. Yup - it's been that way for a while.
https://features.opensuse.org/310668
Just add this line to /etc/pulse/daemon.conf:
flat-volumes = no Thanks - nice to know. Will give it a try next time I evaluate Pulse Audio. Every so often around major release time I look over past deficiencies to look for improvements. When something is better than what it replaces I go with it, if not I use what was.
Case in point: Gstreamer and VLC backends for Phonon still have no equalizer last time I played around.
Are we talking about the same vlc? My version is 1.1.11. I use vlc exclusively (used to be xine) and there is an equaliser. Its under Tools>Effects and Filters. BC -- "To know that we know what we know, and that we do not know what we do not know, that is true knowledge." Confucius -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Basil Chupin wrote: [snip]
Case in point: Gstreamer and VLC backends for Phonon still have no equalizer last time I played around.
Are we talking about the same vlc? My version is 1.1.11.
I use vlc exclusively (used to be xine) and there is an equaliser. Its under Tools>Effects and Filters.
Will have to investigate that then, thanks! But VLC the app is only part of the mix, the other being phonon-vlc-backed for KDE. If switching from phonon-xine-backend doesn't grey out the equalizer I should make the move as phonon-xine-backed is no longer supported and I'm only living on borrowed time there. The equalizer in Amarok disappeared (menu greyed out) the last time I tried phonon-gstreamer-backend. Thanks for the heads up! -Mike -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
may be add to the bug report: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=679155 jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.youtube.com/user/jdddodinorg http://jdd.blip.tv/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 08/14/2011 03:32 AM, jdd wrote:
may be add to the bug report:
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=679155
jdd
I added "export KMIX_PULSEAUDIO_DISABLE=1" (without the quotations) to .bashrc and all of the channels are now available. Cheers! Roman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
2011/8/13
On 08/13/2011 01:55 PM, Michael Powell wrote:
Peter Nikolic wrote:
On Saturday 13 August 2011 08:35:33 Basil Chupin wrote:
On 13/08/11 17:08, Rajko M. wrote:
On Friday, August 12, 2011 10:13:31 PM Basil Chupin wrote:
* in YaST, under Sound deselect pulseaudio in the Other options (bottom right);
As soon as you disable PA (pulseaudio) and restart KMix you will have all channels.
It may appear that we are talking about different applications here because I just tried engaging KMIX and didn't see anything like the channels one sees in alsamixer.
BC
PulseAudio really screws with Kmix on this system each slider has it's own tab stupid idea if you dont want any of the claimed bennifits of PA (note i said claimed cus i could not find ONE) then get rid of it .
As for Kmix and missing sliders right click on the mixer is a vacant space pick select channels and add or remove at your leisure although with some audio chips the choice is very limited
Pete .
I have disabled Pulse for a long time because, although the concept is nice, it's broken as far as any use I might have. Same old story, devs all want to tout "All hail me for all the new features I've added..." and socialize at community get-togethers for mutual ego stroking but nobody wants to do the unglamorous and hidden grunt work of fixing problems. </rant>
I don't know if this may have changed in later times, but I remember once upon a time there used to be two KMix's, one "normal" and the other a "KMix- PulseAudio". I remember when trying to use Pulse having to remove the former and install the latter and reversing it when I ultimately always ended up disabling PulseAudio.
I won't use Pulse because for way too long (numerous versions full of new 'features') any system notification will cause a loud clicking "spitch".
This 'spitch' issue has been in openFATE for almost a year now. If it actually is the same that annoys you. I almost got deaf while listening to music on my laptop + headphones.
https://features.opensuse.org/310668
Just add this line to /etc/pulse/daemon.conf:
flat-volumes = no
R.
It's especially annoying when playing music and this happens. Been doing this for years and doesn't seem it's going to get fixed anytime soon.
I disabled PA as Basil said, and then appears de kmix controls. Now I enabled PA, and I will try Your solution to change flat-volumes yo "no" in the /etc/pulse/daemon.conf file, but all the lines are commented with ";" and then this file has no effect. Thanks -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 13/08/11 18:59, Peter Nikolic wrote:
On Saturday 13 August 2011 08:35:33 Basil Chupin wrote:
On 13/08/11 17:08, Rajko M. wrote:
On Friday, August 12, 2011 10:13:31 PM Basil Chupin wrote:
* in YaST, under Sound deselect pulseaudio in the Other options (bottom right); As soon as you disable PA (pulseaudio) and restart KMix you will have all channels. It may appear that we are talking about different applications here because I just tried engaging KMIX and didn't see anything like the channels one sees in alsamixer.
BC PulseAudio really screws with Kmix on this system each slider has it's own tab stupid idea if you dont want any of the claimed bennifits of PA (note i said claimed cus i could not find ONE) then get rid of it .
As for Kmix and missing sliders right click on the mixer is a vacant space pick select channels and add or remove at your leisure although with some audio chips the choice is very limited
Pete .
Oh, THAT'S how you get to the channels! What a way to do it! :-( . SOOO much easier and sensible doing it using alsamixer or alsamixergui. Having set the channels and volumes using alsamixer I have no need for the kmix "gidget" except to set the volume there to (almost) maximum - after which I simply forget about it. BC -- "To know that we know what we know, and that we do not know what we do not know, that is true knowledge." Confucius -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
* in YaST, under Sound deselect pulseaudio in the Other options (bottom right);
As soon as you disable PA (pulseaudio) and restart KMix you will have all channels.
Just curious: Why does PulseAudio disable channels? Is this on purpose? Is this a deficiency? Werner -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday, August 13, 2011 02:35:36 AM Werner LEMBERG wrote:
Just curious: Why does PulseAudio disable channels? Is this on purpose? Is this a deficiency?
It is some Gnome mixer that told me that no control was enabled, so I enabled all of them and they show up in that mixer. It seems that every mixer has its own data sources (where it will pickup configuration) and that might be a problem. KMix is problem on its own. It works with ALSA directly (or it is over a Phonon), but with PA it shows some amateurish, halfway functional interface. Now I have PulseAudio (PA) installed for n-th time, manually adding just about every package that answered on a search with "pulse" string, and it seems that even with all tools, setup is going to be an efficient time killer :) PA is choosing sources and sinks (output) on its own, and that is probably a big problem when sink is device that exist, but it is not connected to anything that will covert electrical signals to audible vibrations, like my Nvidia HDMI audio built in a graphic card. It is possible to shut down devices like that, but control is well hidden in PA manager, just as about any other manual setting that should override a PA auto detection generated misconception. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 08/13/2011 02:08 AM, Rajko M. wrote:
On Friday, August 12, 2011 10:13:31 PM Basil Chupin wrote:
* in YaST, under Sound deselect pulseaudio in the Other options (bottom right);
As soon as you disable PA (pulseaudio) and restart KMix you will have all channels.
Been there, done that here turned pulseaudio off via Yast2>Hardware>Sound and it still did not fix kmix. If I call up any other mixer pauvcontrol or gmixer more controls show up. Also kmix seems to have all of the control names messed up meaning. Three control handle one input and others are missing. That is in 12.1 and was not in 11.4 The sound module here is a snd-hd-intel. Baudline shows the stereo in hardly working. That is a HAM related program -- 73 de Donn Washburn 307 Savoy Street Email:" n5xwb@comcast.net " Sugar Land, TX 77478 LL# 1.281.242.3256 Ham Callsign N5XWB HAMs : " n5xwb@arrl.net " VoIP via Skype:n5xwbg BMWMOA #:4146 Ambassador " http://counter.li.org " #279316 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
2011/8/13 Donn Washburn
On 08/13/2011 02:08 AM, Rajko M. wrote:
On Friday, August 12, 2011 10:13:31 PM Basil Chupin wrote:
* in YaST, under Sound deselect pulseaudio in the Other options (bottom right);
As soon as you disable PA (pulseaudio) and restart KMix you will have all channels.
Been there, done that here turned pulseaudio off via Yast2>Hardware>Sound and it still did not fix kmix. If I call up any other mixer pauvcontrol or gmixer more controls show up. Also kmix seems to have all of the control names messed up meaning. Three control handle one input and others are missing. That is in 12.1 and was not in 11.4 The sound module here is a snd-hd-intel. Baudline shows the stereo in hardly working. That is a HAM related program
What's will happen with the Audio Mixer and Pulse Audio in openSUSE 12.1? Thanks, Juan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
2011/8/13 Basil Chupin
On 13/08/11 12:55, Juan Erbes wrote:
The new version of Opensuse, will offer a decent audio mixer under KDE4?
I'm using SuSE, from the version 6.3, and in alll versions, the audio mixer hate plenty controls, but now with Opensuse 11.4, the audio mixer (kmix, or alsamixer), when I try to add more channels (the real channels of the audio card), it fails to add channels, and with proffessional audio cards like ESI waveterminal 192M, only I can hear the right channel.
http://www.esi-audio.com/products/wt192m/
Regards
I am not sure if this will be of help to you but I always have a problem with my Audigy sound card - and it's all because of pulseaudio. Have you tried this:
* in YaST, under Sound deselect pulseaudio in the Other options (bottom right);
Yes, it worked with kmix and alsamixer gui. Thank You -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
HI,
If you are using pulse audio, perhaps PulseAudio Volume Control
(pavucontrol) might be what you are looking for.
Cheers,
Max
On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 2:55 PM, Juan Erbes
The new version of Opensuse, will offer a decent audio mixer under KDE4?
I'm using SuSE, from the version 6.3, and in alll versions, the audio mixer hate plenty controls, but now with Opensuse 11.4, the audio mixer (kmix, or alsamixer), when I try to add more channels (the real channels of the audio card), it fails to add channels, and with proffessional audio cards like ESI waveterminal 192M, only I can hear the right channel.
http://www.esi-audio.com/products/wt192m/
Regards -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Le 13/08/2011 04:55, Juan Erbes a écrit :
The new version of Opensuse, will offer a decent audio mixer under KDE4?
I'm using SuSE, from the version 6.3, and in alll versions, the audio mixer hate plenty controls, but now with Opensuse 11.4, the audio mixer (kmix, or alsamixer), when I try to add more channels (the real channels of the audio card), it fails to add channels, and with proffessional audio cards like ESI waveterminal 192M, only I can hear the right channel.
http://www.esi-audio.com/products/wt192m/
Regards also here; gmixer works jdd
-- http://www.dodin.net http://www.youtube.com/user/jdddodinorg http://jdd.blip.tv/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Lørdag den 13. august 2011 04:55:03 skrev Juan Erbes:
The new version of Opensuse, will offer a decent audio mixer under KDE4?
I'm using SuSE, from the version 6.3, and in alll versions, the audio mixer hate plenty controls, but now with Opensuse 11.4, the audio mixer (kmix, or alsamixer), when I try to add more channels (the real channels of the audio card), it fails to add channels, and with proffessional audio cards like ESI waveterminal 192M, only I can hear the right channel.
'setup-pulseaudio --disable' is the magic trick to solve most sound related problems in this day and age. If turning it off doesn't help, and you actually have any use for pulseaudio, you can re-enable it again the same way. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 13/08/11 16:42, Martin Schlander wrote:
The new version of Opensuse, will offer a decent audio mixer under KDE4?
I'm using SuSE, from the version 6.3, and in alll versions, the audio mixer hate plenty controls, but now with Opensuse 11.4, the audio mixer (kmix, or alsamixer), when I try to add more channels (the real channels of the audio card), it fails to add channels, and with proffessional audio cards like ESI waveterminal 192M, only I can hear the right channel.
http://www.esi-audio.com/products/wt192m/ 'setup-pulseaudio --disable' is the magic trick to solve most sound related
Lørdag den 13. august 2011 04:55:03 skrev Juan Erbes: problems in this day and age.
If turning it off doesn't help, and you actually have any use for pulseaudio, you can re-enable it again the same way.
Amen. It is a rather a most unfortunate situation as some people consider that pulseaudio allows them to select and use multiple sources and outputs for their sound, which is fine. But for most people, like the OP and myself and many, many others, pulseaudio is a PITA. BC -- "To know that we know what we know, and that we do not know what we do not know, that is true knowledge." Confucius -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
participants (12)
-
Basil Chupin -
Donn Washburn -
jdd -
Juan Erbes -
M. B. Shah -
madworm_de.novell＠spitzenpfeil.org -
Martin Schlander -
Michael Powell -
Peter Nikolic -
Rajko M. -
Roman Bysh -
Werner LEMBERG