[opensuse-factory] Requesting people to test RC1 of RC2 or whatever
A general question, and a whinge, about being asked to test a release of something like RC2 of oS. When such a request is made, what exactly is being asked of the user? I mean, how is it possible to test, for example, something like vlc, which is something essential to my needs, when not all of the dependencies can be satisfied? I can play BluRay DVDs on 12.3 - but there is no way I can do that in 13.1 RC2 (or any other earlier issues of 13.1). So *my* "testing" will result in saying that RC2 is a failure and I would tell others (if they asked) that oS 13.1 is to be avoided. Report this as a "bug"? To whom? And why? It works perfectly well in 12.3 so why shouldn't it work as well in 13.1? (Perhaps it would if the correct repos were available and synchronised with developments?) Or how can I try out some of the games when the GAMES repo in YaST is unavailable? I enjoy playing PySol - but this is not available. However, having some ability to fend for myself, I installed the game from the its source site. It works very well - but it is not quite the same as in 12.3 so somewhere, someone fiddles with PySolFC when it gets on to openSUSE. But who (and why)? (One other anomaly - and I don't know who to direct this question to, sorry: I and my wife also enjoy playing Freecell which is included in the application called 'aisleriot'. Irrespective of what is done to make it open in full screen mode it doesn't. But more annoying is that suddenly (for 13.1) clicking on a card to move it to a new location results in the card/stack of cards becoming invisible and only reappearing when it/they is/are moved to the new location.) 13.1 is now 5 days (my time/date) away from being GM - but not all the repos are available which will contain the final files for GA. Why aren't they available for activation in YaST in RC2? So, what is actually being asked of users when they are asked to, "Test. Test. Test!"? Or is this request just a parrot-like request because it is something which is "The done thing"? BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.11.2 & kernel 3.11.6-3 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 OC 2GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-03 07:04, Basil Chupin wrote:
I mean, how is it possible to test, for example, something like vlc, which is something essential to my needs, when not all of the dependencies can be satisfied?
Nvidia. People with Nvidia cards either fail all the tests, or have to install it "the hard way"... -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
On 03/11/13 23:04, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2013-11-03 07:04, Basil Chupin wrote:
I mean, how is it possible to test, for example, something like vlc, which is something essential to my needs, when not all of the dependencies can be satisfied? Nvidia.
People with Nvidia cards either fail all the tests, or have to install it "the hard way"... Sorry, Carlos, I don't understand what you are trying to say here.
BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.11.2 & kernel 3.11.6-3 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 OC 2GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-03 13:38, Basil Chupin wrote:
On 03/11/13 23:04, Carlos E. R. wrote:
People with Nvidia cards either fail all the tests, or have to install it "the hard way"... Sorry, Carlos, I don't understand what you are trying to say here.
That the Nvidia driver is not available as rpm till after release. I'm not complaining, just stating a fact. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
Hello, Am Sonntag, 3. November 2013 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
On 2013-11-03 13:38, Basil Chupin wrote:
On 03/11/13 23:04, Carlos E. R. wrote:
People with Nvidia cards either fail all the tests, or have to install it "the hard way"...
Sorry, Carlos, I don't understand what you are trying to say here.
That the Nvidia driver is not available as rpm till after release.
I'm not complaining, just stating a fact.
You can build it yourself in the "official" way easily: osc co X11:Drivers:Video nvidia-gfx$version ($version has to match your graphics card - if in doubt, check what you had on 12.3 or check the %description in the spec file) Then follow the README in the checked out directory - basically you have to run "fetch.sh" and then two "osc build" commands. AFAIK Stefan will submit the "official" packages to the nvidia repo after his vacation, which means in about 3 weeks. That said - the nvidia-gfx02 driver causes an X segfault for me since the factory update on 2013-10-30. I didn't change the kernel or the nvidia driver around this time, so it must be another change in Factory that causes this. (There's no bugreport about it yet, but I mailed Stefan my Xorg.0.log while discussing some other questions around the nvidia driver, and wait for his response.) In the meantime, I'm using nouveau ;-) Regards, Christian Boltz -- Die Jungs von FreePascal portieren zur Zeit auf alles was nach Prozessor aussieht oder Prozessor im Namen hat ;-) [Gerald Goebel in suse-programming] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-03 16:20, Christian Boltz wrote:
Hello,
Am Sonntag, 3. November 2013 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
On 2013-11-03 13:38, Basil Chupin wrote:
On 03/11/13 23:04, Carlos E. R. wrote:
People with Nvidia cards either fail all the tests, or have to install it "the hard way"...
Sorry, Carlos, I don't understand what you are trying to say here.
That the Nvidia driver is not available as rpm till after release.
I'm not complaining, just stating a fact.
You can build it yourself in the "official" way easily:
I know that :-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
On Sunday 2013-11-03 16:20, Christian Boltz wrote:
That said - the nvidia-gfx02 driver causes an X segfault for me since the factory update on 2013-10-30.
Check the README. Not only is NVIDIA slow to respond to kernel updates, but even slower on Xorg API updates -- though this usually means the X server won't start at all, thanks to the X server doing a version check between itself and its plugins when loading them. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
El 03/11/13 03:04, Basil Chupin escribió:
A general question, and a whinge, about being asked to test a release of something like RC2 of oS.
When such a request is made, what exactly is being asked of the user?
I mean, how is it possible to test, for example, something like vlc, which is something essential to my needs, when not all of the dependencies can be satisfied?
I don't know what are you talking about, vlc works just fine.
Or how can I try out some of the games when the GAMES repo in YaST is unavailable?
The games repo is not part of the distribution, we are asking people to test what is included in the official release. Fixing that repo should be a matter of just adding a new build target.
13.1 is now 5 days (my time/date) away from being GM - but not all the repos are available which will contain the final files for GA. Why aren't they available for activation in YaST in RC2?
Because nobody has enabled build for them. -- "Judging by their response, the meanest thing you can do to people on the Internet is to give them really good software for free". - Anil Dash -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-03 15:15, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 03/11/13 03:04, Basil Chupin escribió:
A general question, and a whinge, about being asked to test a release of something like RC2 of oS.
When such a request is made, what exactly is being asked of the user?
I mean, how is it possible to test, for example, something like vlc, which is something essential to my needs, when not all of the dependencies can be satisfied?
I don't know what are you talking about, vlc works just fine.
Impossible. There is no packman repo. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
On Sunday 03 November 2013 16:00:59 Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2013-11-03 15:15, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 03/11/13 03:04, Basil Chupin escribió:
A general question, and a whinge, about being asked to test a release of something like RC2 of oS.
When such a request is made, what exactly is being asked of the user?
I mean, how is it possible to test, for example, something like vlc, which is something essential to my needs, when not all of the dependencies can be satisfied?
I don't know what are you talking about, vlc works just fine.
Impossible. There is no packman repo.
Get it from videolan.org: http://download.videolan.org/pub/vlc/SuSE/13.1/vlc.ymp Regards, Stefan -- Stefan Brüns / Bergstraße 21 / 52062 Aachen phone: +49 241 53809034 mobile: +49 151 50412019
El 03/11/13 12:00, Carlos E. R. escribió:
Impossible. There is no packman repo.
I see.. I am using packman factory that's why it works for me.. afaik packman developers are going to provide a 13.1 repo later though. -- "Judging by their response, the meanest thing you can do to people on the Internet is to give them really good software for free". - Anil Dash -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-03 16:50, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 03/11/13 12:00, Carlos E. R. escribió:
Impossible. There is no packman repo.
I see.. I am using packman factory that's why it works for me.. afaik packman developers are going to provide a 13.1 repo later though.
Exactly :-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
Hello, On Sun, 03 Nov 2013, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 03/11/13 12:00, Carlos E. R. escribió:
Impossible. There is no packman repo.
There is. It's just intentionally not published/mirrored yet. Quote: "Syncing is going to be enabled around 13.1 release day." i.e. in about 2 weeks. HTH, -dnh -- Beeping is cute, if you are in the office ;) -- Alan Cox -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday, 2013-11-04 at 16:02 +0100, David Haller wrote:
Hello,
On Sun, 03 Nov 2013, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 03/11/13 12:00, Carlos E. R. escribió:
Impossible. There is no packman repo.
There is. It's just intentionally not published/mirrored yet. Quote:
"Syncing is going to be enabled around 13.1 release day."
i.e. in about 2 weeks.
I know that, it always is. But it means that the testers can not test RC candidates with pacman packages. Again, I'm not complaining, I'm just statating facts... - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlJ40A8ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VzzACcC+aRvhsev/idLJOvMb0nhisl zlIAoIarN+WJPaYbzjwerkd0Q42NA1gi =+kIs -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On 2013-11-03 16:00 (GMT+0100) Carlos E. R. composed:
, Cristian RodrÃguez wrote:
Basil Chupin composed:
how is it possible to test, for example, something like vlc, which is something essential to my needs, when not all of the dependencies can be satisfied?
I don't know what are you talking about, vlc works just fine.
Impossible. There is no packman repo.
This is the 9 day old VLC package that installs if you have only 13.1's oss/non-oss/updates repos enabled: http://download.opensuse.org/factory-snapshot/repo/oss/suse/x86_64/vlc-2.1.0... What exactly is impossible? If you also enable 13.1 VideoLAN repo, this (2 days old) is available: http://download.videolan.org/pub/vlc/SuSE/13.1/x86_64/vlc-2.1.0-69.4.x86_64.... -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Content-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1311032144361.8122@Telcontar.valinor> On Sunday, 2013-11-03 at 11:42 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
Impossible. There is no packman repo.
This is the 9 day old VLC package that installs if you have only 13.1's oss/non-oss/updates repos enabled: http://download.opensuse.org/factory-snapshot/repo/oss/suse/x86_64/vlc-2.1.0...
That version is crippled. No patented/copyrighted codecs.
If you also enable 13.1 VideoLAN repo, this (2 days old) is available: http://download.videolan.org/pub/vlc/SuSE/13.1/x86_64/vlc-2.1.0-69.4.x86_64....
No packman. Most people use packman. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlJ2tgIACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WXpgCaAsKEseDtePenZIuLEOrrVthx Dn4AoJPtGlpSK3cO7g9S7YlsKGDIxVQa =c02w -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-03 21:45 (GMT+0100) Carlos E. R. composed:
Impossible. There is no packman repo.
This is the 9 day old VLC package that installs if you have only 13.1's oss/non-oss/updates repos enabled: http://download.opensuse.org/factory-snapshot/repo/oss/suse/x86_64/vlc-2.1.0...
That version is crippled. No patented/copyrighted codecs.
I was responding to the unqualified word you used, "impossible".
If you also enable 13.1 VideoLAN repo, this (2 days old) is available: http://download.videolan.org/pub/vlc/SuSE/13.1/x86_64/vlc-2.1.0-69.4.x86_64....
No packman. Most people use packman.
Please cite a source for your asserted fact "most people". AFAICT, most people use Windows, which doesn't require Packman for VLC to fully function. Even if only most openSUSE users or most Linux users, where is the authority? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Sunday 03 November 2013 17:04:09 Basil Chupin wrote:
A general question, and a whinge, about being asked to test a release of something like RC2 of oS.
When such a request is made, what exactly is being asked of the user?
I worked hard to try and answer that question: http://news.opensuse.org/?p=16783 If that article is not helpful to you, please tell me how I can improve it.
I mean, how is it possible to test, for example, something like vlc, which is something essential to my needs, when not all of the dependencies can be satisfied?
I can play BluRay DVDs on 12.3 - but there is no way I can do that in 13.1 RC2 (or any other earlier issues of 13.1). So *my* "testing" will result in saying that RC2 is a failure and I would tell others (if they asked) that oS 13.1 is to be avoided. Report this as a "bug"? To whom? And why? It works perfectly well in 12.3 so why shouldn't it work as well in 13.1? (Perhaps it would if the correct repos were available and synchronised with developments?)
Or how can I try out some of the games when the GAMES repo in YaST is unavailable? I enjoy playing PySol - but this is not available. However, having some ability to fend for myself, I installed the game from the its source site. It works very well - but it is not quite the same as in 12.3 so somewhere, someone fiddles with PySolFC when it gets on to openSUSE. But who (and why)?
(One other anomaly - and I don't know who to direct this question to, sorry: I and my wife also enjoy playing Freecell which is included in the application called 'aisleriot'. Irrespective of what is done to make it open in full screen mode it doesn't. But more annoying is that suddenly (for 13.1) clicking on a card to move it to a new location results in the card/stack of cards becoming invisible and only reappearing when it/they is/are moved to the new location.)
13.1 is now 5 days (my time/date) away from being GM - but not all the repos are available which will contain the final files for GA. Why aren't they available for activation in YaST in RC2?
So, what is actually being asked of users when they are asked to, "Test. Test. Test!"? Or is this request just a parrot-like request because it is something which is "The done thing"?
You have been on the openSUSE-factory mailing list since 2006. That is 7 years. Are you saying that you don't know how we work? After all that time? You don't know we do not ship multimedia codecs and why we don't? You don't know these are provided by a third party (pacman)? And how? You never experienced that repositories are not yet available for an unreleased openSUSE version? You still have no idea why that is? It's not like you haven't asked about this before, like, for the previous release: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2013-03/msg00125.html Please, show at least a LITTLE respect to the hard work of people on this list and don't distract them with questions you really should know the answer to. Thanks, Jos
BC
Please, show at least a LITTLE respect to the hard work of people on this list and don't distract them with questions you really should know the answer to. Honestly - I ignore every thread Basil or Linda take part in. I wonder if we can somehow automate that. Perhaps a opensuse-factory-sane list
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 04.11.2013 12:33, Jos Poortvliet wrote: that is feed by opensuse-factory posts but automatically filters such threads and posts? I'm afraid as long as opensuse-factory mailing list is passively moderated, we will continue seeing people not subscribing to this collection of nonsense with small interferences of useful information. Greetings, Stephan -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iD8DBQFSd5dbwFSBhlBjoJYRAniDAJwPSMV0wlrm5jhizgsAFaqG+444UACg245I vj4xj37h2ZCiHeByb7AMAM4= =k2Cn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/4/2013 7:47 AM, Stephan Kulow wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 04.11.2013 12:33, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
Please, show at least a LITTLE respect to the hard work of people on this list and don't distract them with questions you really should know the answer to. Honestly - I ignore every thread Basil or Linda take part in. I wonder if we can somehow automate that. Perhaps a opensuse-factory-sane list that is feed by opensuse-factory posts but automatically filters such threads and posts?
I'm afraid as long as opensuse-factory mailing list is passively moderated, we will continue seeing people not subscribing to this collection of nonsense with small interferences of useful information.
Add me to that list. Linda gets a little hard to track sometimes but basically she asks perfectly valid and pointed questions which no one actually answers. If it were an actual debat Linda won hands down many times over. But it's not a debate it's a popularity contest. -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-04 12:33 (GMT+0100) Jos Poortvliet composed:
Basil Chupin wrote:
A general question, and a whinge, about being asked to test a release of something like RC2 of oS.
When such a request is made, what exactly is being asked of the user?
I worked hard to try and answer that question: http://news.opensuse.org/?p=16783
If that article is not helpful to you, please tell me how I can improve it.
I think you did a nice job. Improving it significantly doesn't seem likely possible to me. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Sunday 03 November 2013 17:04:09 Basil Chupin wrote:
A general question, and a whinge, about being asked to test a release of something like RC2 of oS.
When such a request is made, what exactly is being asked of the user?
I worked hard to try and answer that question: http://news.opensuse.org/?p=16783
If that article is not helpful to you, please tell me how I can improve it.
I think testing of the changed network interface naming might be useful. If you upgrade, there's no change, but new installations will see some pretty odd names (to people who aren't used to them). In the past, many assumptions have been made based on the name of the interface, all of those have been invalidated. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (10.1°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, 4 Nov 2013 20:16, Per Jessen <per@...> wrote:
Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Sunday 03 November 2013 17:04:09 Basil Chupin wrote:
A general question, and a whinge, about being asked to test a release of something like RC2 of oS.
When such a request is made, what exactly is being asked of the user?
I worked hard to try and answer that question: http://news.opensuse.org/?p=16783
If that article is not helpful to you, please tell me how I can improve it.
I think testing of the changed network interface naming might be useful. If you upgrade, there's no change, but new installations will see some pretty odd names (to people who aren't used to them). In the past, many assumptions have been made based on the name of the interface, all of those have been invalidated.
And please give hints how to find out about this names, e.g. calling: "/sbin/route" (looking for line '^default' -> last field: Iface) "/usr/bin/ip" (looking for line ^default via [IP-ADDR] dev [Iface]) "/sbin/ifconfig" (first line is most likely: ^e... *Link encap:Ethernet) All these commands work as 'normal' non-privileged user. That would at least give some help, and makes the life for support easier. - Yamaban. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/04/2013 01:31 PM, Yamaban wrote:
And please give hints how to find out about this names, e.g. calling:
"/sbin/route" (looking for line '^default' -> last field: Iface)
"/usr/bin/ip" (looking for line ^default via [IP-ADDR] dev [Iface])
"/sbin/ifconfig" (first line is most likely: ^e... *Link encap:Ethernet)
All these commands work as 'normal' non-privileged user.
That would at least give some help, and makes the life for support easier.
Good suggestions. If people use NetworkManager, the new names are a problem in only one case that I know about. If the wireless driver fails to register as a wireless device, the new naming system knows they are network devices, concludes that they are ethernet types, and gives them a name of en.... rather than wl... When this happens, NM will not connect to the device. Larry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am 04.11.2013 21:50, schrieb Larry Finger:
If people use NetworkManager, the new names are a problem in only one case that I know about. If the wireless driver fails to register as a wireless device, the new naming system knows they are network devices, concludes that they are ethernet types, and gives them a name of en.... rather than wl... When this happens, NM will not connect to the device.
really? I don't think this is related to the name, the driver is probably just broken? Or did it start to work once you fixed the udev rule to name it "wlan0"? I always since years have named my interfaces "cable" and "air" (in order to find buggy software that relies on "ethX" or "wlanX") and have not had a problem with networkmanager and such because of this. I found bugs in other software, though :-) -- Stefan Seyfried "If your lighter runs out of fluid or flint and stops making fire, and you can't be bothered to figure out about lighter fluid or flint, that is not Zippo's fault." -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/05/2013 09:54 AM, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
Am 04.11.2013 21:50, schrieb Larry Finger:
If people use NetworkManager, the new names are a problem in only one case that I know about. If the wireless driver fails to register as a wireless device, the new naming system knows they are network devices, concludes that they are ethernet types, and gives them a name of en.... rather than wl... When this happens, NM will not connect to the device.
really? I don't think this is related to the name, the driver is probably just broken? Or did it start to work once you fixed the udev rule to name it "wlan0"?
When a new udev rule was added to name it wlanX, then it started to work.
I always since years have named my interfaces "cable" and "air" (in order to find buggy software that relies on "ethX" or "wlanX") and have not had a problem with networkmanager and such because of this.
I agree that the root cause is a buggy driver, but those won't be fixed by 13.1 release, which is why I brought up the point here. Larry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am 05.11.2013 16:59, schrieb Larry Finger:
On 11/05/2013 09:54 AM, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
Am 04.11.2013 21:50, schrieb Larry Finger:
If people use NetworkManager, the new names are a problem in only one case that I know about. If the wireless driver fails to register as a wireless device, the new naming system knows they are network devices, concludes that they are ethernet types, and gives them a name of en.... rather than wl... When this happens, NM will not connect to the device.
really? I don't think this is related to the name, the driver is probably just broken? Or did it start to work once you fixed the udev rule to name it "wlan0"?
When a new udev rule was added to name it wlanX, then it started to work.
Ok, I would not have imagined that. In the end it means that there is broken legacy code somewhere in NM that looks for interface names instead of properties... :-( But for users hit by this problem, it is important to have a solution.
I always since years have named my interfaces "cable" and "air" (in order to find buggy software that relies on "ethX" or "wlanX") and have not had a problem with networkmanager and such because of this.
I agree that the root cause is a buggy driver, but those won't be fixed by 13.1 release, which is why I brought up the point here.
Yes, that's surely important to know if someone comes for help with WLAN problems. I personally would not have thought of this as a problem, so it's good to know for debugging issues and possibly helping people. -- Stefan Seyfried "If your lighter runs out of fluid or flint and stops making fire, and you can't be bothered to figure out about lighter fluid or flint, that is not Zippo's fault." -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday, 2013-11-04 at 20:16 +0100, Per Jessen wrote:
I think testing of the changed network interface naming might be useful. If you upgrade, there's no change, but new installations will see some pretty odd names (to people who aren't used to them). In the past, many assumptions have been made based on the name of the interface, all of those have been invalidated.
In a test I did, upgrading meant no network. The old eth0 interface did not work at all. And the newly named interface neither, because it was not configured. Both interfaces showed in Yast. I did a post about that: Subject: [opensuse-factory] [13.1 RC1] - upgrade test: no network device I plan to test another upgrade with RC2, but I'm still downloading it, my netowrk is slow. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlJ40UEACgkQtTMYHG2NR9U/tgCfUkBXRq/cn6wWNUybl5YU2FXr DkgAn3XSvbPhSg7dkOWGF/FZIvJUSoJY =/ZUd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Sunday 03 November 2013 17:04:09 Basil Chupin wrote:
A general question, and a whinge, about being asked to test a release of something like RC2 of oS.
When such a request is made, what exactly is being asked of the user?
I worked hard to try and answer that question: http://news.opensuse.org/?p=16783
If that article is not helpful to you, please tell me how I can improve it.
I would be more careful with things like this: a) find if it is really a bug (can be reproduced) Just because something cannot be (easily) reproduced, does not mean it isn't a bug. It is easier to debug/diagnose if it is reproducable, that's all. I have seen bugreports closed as WORKSFORME just because somebody could not reproduce the issue. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (9.6°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Sunday 03 November 2013 17:04:09 Basil Chupin wrote:
A general question, and a whinge, about being asked to test a release of something like RC2 of oS.
In here 64 bit RC2 works pretty well. Two most annoying things: 1. No Acro Reader. 2. Knode locked up even minute in searching new message headers. This happens on lively forums, for example nntp.opensuse.og. I wonder degradation, because knode performs much better on openSUSE 12.3 -- Viljo -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Quoting Viljo Mustonen <viljo.mustonen@pp.inet.fi>:
On Sunday 03 November 2013 17:04:09 Basil Chupin wrote:
A general question, and a whinge, about being asked to test a release of something like RC2 of oS.
In here 64 bit RC2 works pretty well.
Two most annoying things:
1. No Acro Reader.
That's a feature, thanks to Adobe: 202001 State:accepted By:scarabeus_factory When:2013-10-03T12:38:53 delete: openSUSE:Factory:NonFree/acroread Review by Group is new: legal-auto Review by Group is new: factory-auto From: review(msmeissn) Descr: now unmaintained by adobe. bnc#843835 Comment: Dropping as this broke factory-auto so it won't in fact be ever reviewed by those. Dominique -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2013-11-05 15:52, Dominique Leuenberger a.k.a. Dimstar wrote:
Quoting Viljo Mustonen <>:
1. No Acro Reader.
That's a feature, thanks to Adobe: 202001 State:accepted By:scarabeus_factory When:2013-10-03T12:38:53 delete: openSUSE:Factory:NonFree/acroread Review by Group is new: legal-auto Review by Group is new: factory-auto From: review(msmeissn) Descr: now unmaintained by adobe. bnc#843835 Comment: Dropping as this broke factory-auto so it won't in fact be ever reviewed by those.
Please, could you please explain what does this mean? - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlJ5BtoACgkQtTMYHG2NR9V+0wCgicdklHrXqu/LmhibxrhrEQbP dQ8Ani8O1ZVU2Nig/0ZAbOO7U7LDzSrS =iA9v -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Dne Út 5. listopadu 2013 15:55:22, Carlos E. R. napsal(a):
On 2013-11-05 15:52, Dominique Leuenberger a.k.a. Dimstar wrote:
Quoting Viljo Mustonen <>:
1. No Acro Reader.
That's a feature, thanks to Adobe: 202001 State:accepted
By:scarabeus_factory When:2013-10-03T12:38:53 delete: openSUSE:Factory:NonFree/acroread Review by Group is new: legal-auto Review by Group is new: factory-auto From: review(msmeissn) Descr: now unmaintained by adobe. bnc#843835 Comment: Dropping as this broke factory-auto so it won't in fact be ever reviewed by those.
Please, could you please explain what does this mean?
Exactly what the bug and the commit say. Adobe dropped support for acroread we provide so we had to drop it as there won't be any further security fixes. And they are quite prone for sec-holes as we all know. Nothing more, nothing less. Cheers Tom
Quoting Tomáš Chvátal <tchvatal@suse.cz>:
Dne Út 5. listopadu 2013 15:55:22, Carlos E. R. napsal(a):
On 2013-11-05 15:52, Dominique Leuenberger a.k.a. Dimstar wrote:
Quoting Viljo Mustonen <>:
1. No Acro Reader.
That's a feature, thanks to Adobe: 202001 State:accepted
By:scarabeus_factory When:2013-10-03T12:38:53 delete: openSUSE:Factory:NonFree/acroread Review by Group is new: legal-auto Review by Group is new: factory-auto From: review(msmeissn) Descr: now unmaintained by adobe. bnc#843835 Comment: Dropping as this broke factory-auto so it won't in fact be ever reviewed by those.
Please, could you please explain what does this mean?
Exactly what the bug and the commit say.
The bug is quiet to non-Suse employees :) It's secret
Adobe dropped support for acroread we provide so we had to drop it as there won't be any further security fixes. And they are quite prone for sec-holes as we all know.
Nothing more, nothing less.
But I'm sure that paraphrases the content of the bug :) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Nov 05, 2013 at 04:05:28PM +0100, Dominique Leuenberger a.k.a. Dimstar wrote:
Quoting Tomáš Chvátal <tchvatal@suse.cz>:
Dne Út 5. listopadu 2013 15:55:22, Carlos E. R. napsal(a):
On 2013-11-05 15:52, Dominique Leuenberger a.k.a. Dimstar wrote:
Quoting Viljo Mustonen <>:
1. No Acro Reader.
That's a feature, thanks to Adobe: 202001 State:accepted
By:scarabeus_factory When:2013-10-03T12:38:53 delete: openSUSE:Factory:NonFree/acroread Review by Group is new: legal-auto Review by Group is new: factory-auto From: review(msmeissn) Descr: now unmaintained by adobe. bnc#843835 Comment: Dropping as this broke factory-auto so it won't in fact be ever reviewed by those.
Please, could you please explain what does this mean?
Exactly what the bug and the commit say.
The bug is quiet to non-Suse employees :) It's secret
Was originally intended for our Enterprise Desktop. There is not much in it, but I opened it now.
Adobe dropped support for acroread we provide so we had to drop it as there won't be any further security fixes. And they are quite prone for sec-holes as we all know.
Nothing more, nothing less.
But I'm sure that paraphrases the content of the bug :)
Correct. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2013-11-05 at 18:32 +0100, Marcus Meissner wrote:
On Tue, Nov 05, 2013 at 04:05:28PM +0100, Dominique Leuenberger a.k.a. Dimstar wrote:
Quoting Tomáš Chvátal <tchvatal@suse.cz>:
Exactly what the bug and the commit say.
The bug is quiet to non-Suse employees :) It's secret
Was originally intended for our Enterprise Desktop.
There is not much in it, but I opened it now.
Anybody has a number for it, please? - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlJ5YswACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XgmQCfdO6gltRcuVa6sK3VKzUc8cKZ ACYAnR592P+Clm/WdTFVukx74OmKBnaG =Pjg6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On 11/05/2013 09:55 AM, Carlos E. R. pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 2013-11-05 15:52, Dominique Leuenberger a.k.a. Dimstar wrote:
Quoting Viljo Mustonen <>:
1. No Acro Reader.
That's a feature, thanks to Adobe: 202001 State:accepted By:scarabeus_factory When:2013-10-03T12:38:53 delete: openSUSE:Factory:NonFree/acroread Review by Group is new: legal-auto Review by Group is new: factory-auto From: review(msmeissn) Descr: now unmaintained by adobe. bnc#843835 Comment: Dropping as this broke factory-auto so it won't in fact be ever reviewed by those.
Please, could you please explain what does this mean?
Simply means that the product is no longer maintained for linux and is dropped. If you want acrobat reader you will need to download and install it and maintain it yourself. -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2013-11-05 16:02, Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:
On 11/05/2013 09:55 AM, Carlos E. R. pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
Simply means that the product is no longer maintained for linux and is dropped. If you want acrobat reader you will need to download and install it and maintain it yourself.
This should go to the release notes. It is important enough not to install 13.1, or to install Windows instead. :-/ - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlJ5CR8ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XtdgCdFZ5DkVp9Pd5/cwXyaxhts6Rd Up0AmgPQjYvGPXZrYQagnFAcfD0htzJY =jPM4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Quoting "Carlos E. R." <carlos.e.r@opensuse.org>:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 2013-11-05 16:02, Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:
On 11/05/2013 09:55 AM, Carlos E. R. pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
Simply means that the product is no longer maintained for linux and is dropped. If you want acrobat reader you will need to download and install it and maintain it yourself.
This should go to the release notes. It is important enough not to install 13.1, or to install Windows instead. :-/
Really? you 'RELY' on closed source software while advocating open source? There are a bunch of PDF readers in openSUSE... which all came a long way. You can still get the last release of AcroRead from Adobe.. security issues included (but not fixed). Dominique -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-05 16:11, Dominique Leuenberger a.k.a. Dimstar wrote:
Quoting "Carlos E. R." <>:
Really? you 'RELY' on closed source software while advocating open source?
There are a bunch of PDF readers in openSUSE... which all came a long way.
My government uses pdf forms. This do not work well, sometimes not at all, with those alternatives. I HAVE to use adobe reader, no choice. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 05.11.2013 16:15, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2013-11-05 16:11, Dominique Leuenberger a.k.a. Dimstar wrote:
Quoting "Carlos E. R." <>:
Really? you 'RELY' on closed source software while advocating open source?
There are a bunch of PDF readers in openSUSE... which all came a long way.
My government uses pdf forms. This do not work well, sometimes not at all, with those alternatives.
I HAVE to use adobe reader, no choice.
Tried wine? Greetings, Stephan -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iD8DBQFSeQvYwFSBhlBjoJYRAoZpAKDiF3x2RSdRwJlVkASEec54yUR6tgCeMN4z Pc31eNXVYN0sldgjkxe3qvE= =gxPC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-05 16:16, Stephan Kulow wrote:
On 05.11.2013 16:15, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I HAVE to use adobe reader, no choice.
Tried wine?
I'll have to... :-/ -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
Quoting "Carlos E. R." <robin.listas@telefonica.net>:
On 2013-11-05 16:16, Stephan Kulow wrote:
On 05.11.2013 16:15, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I HAVE to use adobe reader, no choice.
Tried wine?
I'll have to... :-/
Feel free to join awareness-groups, trying to convince Adobe that it's worthy to invest the efforts into a Linux version. Like http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-we-want-to-always... It's been ongoing for > 12 months and already has 20 subscribers (hmm. seems demand is not high or nobody knows about it). Dominique -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-05 16:26, Dominique Leuenberger a.k.a. Dimstar wrote:
Feel free to join awareness-groups, trying to convince Adobe that it's worthy to invest the efforts into a Linux version.
Like http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-we-want-to-always...
It's been ongoing for > 12 months and already has 20 subscribers (hmm. seems demand is not high or nobody knows about it).
I had no idea that adobe had dropped the Linux reader :-( Thus no idea about the petition. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
On Nov 05, 13 16:29:27 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Feel free to join awareness-groups, trying to convince Adobe that it's worthy to invest the efforts into a Linux version.
Like http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-we-want-to-always...
I had no idea that adobe had dropped the Linux reader :-( Thus no idea about the petition.
Do we have a petition for improving PDF-Forms (and annotations etc..) in Okular? I'd rather sign that. cheers, JW- -- o \ Juergen Weigert paint it green! __/ _=======.=======_ <V> | jw@suse.de back to ascii! __/ _---|____________\/ \ | 0911 74053-508 say #263A!__/ (____/ /\ (/) | _____________________________/ _/ \_ vim:set sw=2 wm=8 SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, J.Guild, F.Imendoerffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg), Maxfeldstrasse 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany SuSE. Supporting Linux since 1992. ☺ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-05 16:36 (GMT+0100) Juergen Weigert composed:
On Nov 05, 13 16:29:27 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Feel free to join awareness-groups, trying to convince Adobe that it's worthy to invest the efforts into a Linux version.
Like http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-we-want-to-always...
I had no idea that adobe had dropped the Linux reader :-(
And neither Flash?
Thus no idea about the petition.
Do we have a petition for improving PDF-Forms (and annotations etc..) in Okular? I'd rather sign that.
I suggest to those whose government foists necessity for proprietary software on its constituents act to get their government to embrace FOSS. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Nov 05, 2013 at 11:15:56AM -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-11-05 16:36 (GMT+0100) Juergen Weigert composed:
On Nov 05, 13 16:29:27 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Feel free to join awareness-groups, trying to convince Adobe that it's worthy to invest the efforts into a Linux version.
Like http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-we-want-to-always...
I had no idea that adobe had dropped the Linux reader :-(
And neither Flash?
Flash is also on the way out, the current version is still maintained, but the next will not be maintained for Linux anymore. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 05 November 2013 11:15:56 Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-11-05 16:36 (GMT+0100) Juergen Weigert composed:
Do we have a petition for improving PDF-Forms (and annotations etc..) in Okular? I'd rather sign that.
I suggest to those whose government foists necessity for proprietary software on its constituents act to get their government to embrace FOSS.
This requires too long period of time. Or does not happen ever. Jorgen`s thought would be good. -- Viljo -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
From: Viljo Mustonen <viljo.mustonen@pp.inet.fi> To: opensuse-factory@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse-factory] No more acroread? Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2013 19:59:57 +0200 On Tuesday 05 November 2013 11:15:56 Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-11-05 16:36 (GMT+0100) Juergen Weigert composed:
Do we have a petition for improving PDF-Forms (and annotations etc..) in Okular? I'd rather sign that.
I suggest to those whose government foists necessity for proprietary software on its constituents act to get their government to embrace FOSS.
This requires too long period of time. Or does not happen ever. Jorgen`s thought would be good. -----Original Message----- Well, instead of a such petition, you can ask your administration to send all forms no longer in pdf but in microsoft-word format. Such request will be accepted much sooner >:-[&] A couple of versions ago we got rid of xpdf, and now of acroread: what is the next intended victim? hw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
El 05/11/13 16:15, Felix Miata escribió:
And neither Flash?
flash in mozilla is getting replaced by "shumway" and chromium has its own implementation "pepper flash". -- "Judging by their response, the meanest thing you can do to people on the Internet is to give them really good software for free". - Anil Dash -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-05 19:57, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 05/11/13 16:15, Felix Miata escribió:
And neither Flash?
flash in mozilla is getting replaced by "shumway" and chromium has its own implementation "pepper flash".
I use a bank that does not work with mozilla. For some reason, the download account data in "excel" file format does not work. I have to use chrome instead. As this happens only after you are identified as client, I can not report the bug anywhere. Maybe they use flash. (and before anybody suggest me to change bank, I wish I could. Search about the "preferentes fraud" in Spain). -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
(and before anybody suggest me to change bank, I wish I could. Search about the "preferentes fraud" in Spain).
You can also complain with the bank. However, a nice and fun mayhem is expectable when adobe's flash looses support. Alternatives work some of the time, more recently than before, but they're still spotty, and when they fail, it's usually when you have no choice (ie: corporate sites and stuff that matters, not a video that won't play, not that that doesn't matter just as well). This will probably kill flash. Or rather, it will be the coup de grace. About acroread, I've never needed it ever since evince and all the others. They do a really good job. In fact, OSS's write capabilities far outmatch any commercial tool. Is there any kind of document OS alternatives don't handle well? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 05 November 2013 18.20:55 Claudio Freire wrote:
About acroread, I've never needed it ever since evince and all the others. They do a really good job. In fact, OSS's write capabilities far outmatch any commercial tool. Is there any kind of document OS alternatives don't handle well?
Yes try to open a 3dpdf with any oss tools you will certainly miss some important part, could really annoying when your job depend on that. Another things that only Adobe Acrobat reader has is the efficient print in booklet mode. And this one I can't understand that none floss software is able to propose a solution. (I mean one that a lambda user could run, not a series of | jungling with latex, ghostcript, cups-filter, even if that would solve a lot of trouble :-) -- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch openSUSE Member GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-05 21:39, Bruno Friedmann wrote:
Another things that only Adobe Acrobat reader has is the efficient print in booklet mode.
I never managed to produce something usable from that mode.
And this one I can't understand that none floss software is able to propose a solution.
Because there are CLI tools to produce the same effect. :-p -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
On 2013-11-05 21:20, Claudio Freire wrote:
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
(and before anybody suggest me to change bank, I wish I could. Search about the "preferentes fraud" in Spain).
You can also complain with the bank.
Oh, I did. They closed the issue when they found out that chrome works. And Iexplorer too. That's all that matters. There are worst issues, like having to wait two hours to do a withdrawal. I'm also "satisfied" if I can work in Linux, even if I have to use proprietary software. I prefer open, but I'm open about that.
However, a nice and fun mayhem is expectable when adobe's flash looses support. Alternatives work some of the time, more recently than before, but they're still spotty, and when they fail, it's usually when you have no choice (ie: corporate sites and stuff that matters, not a video that won't play, not that that doesn't matter just as well).
That's the issue.
This will probably kill flash. Or rather, it will be the coup de grace.
About acroread, I've never needed it ever since evince and all the others. They do a really good job. In fact, OSS's write capabilities far outmatch any commercial tool. Is there any kind of document OS alternatives don't handle well?
Tax forms. There was a long thread in the forums... let me see... this one: http://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php?t=487656 PDF Document XFA forms are unsupported! The form has buttons, and these do not work except in acroread. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 5:56 PM, Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
This will probably kill flash. Or rather, it will be the coup de grace.
About acroread, I've never needed it ever since evince and all the others. They do a really good job. In fact, OSS's write capabilities far outmatch any commercial tool. Is there any kind of document OS alternatives don't handle well?
Tax forms.
There was a long thread in the forums... let me see... this one:
http://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php?t=487656 PDF Document XFA forms are unsupported!
The form has buttons, and these do not work except in acroread.
For tax, complain to the government. No government should ever require all tax payers to BUY software. They should always allow you to fill out a hardcopy in manuscript and fax it over or something like that. And complain, because complaining is the right thing to do. Force them to consider open access to the tools needed to PAY TAXES. In the meanwhile, drink some wine. ;-) On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 5:58 PM, Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
And this one I can't understand that none floss software is able to propose a solution.
Because there are CLI tools to produce the same effect. :-p
Well, if there are CLI tools, it should be rather simple providing a button that does the CLI mangling for you. Did you open the issue and they refused? (I'd find that hard to believe - but if they did... a patch may speak louder). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-05 22:01, Claudio Freire wrote:
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 5:56 PM, Carlos E. R. <> wrote:
For tax, complain to the government. No government should ever require all tax payers to BUY software.
And they don't, acroread was gratis.
They should always allow you to fill out a hardcopy in manuscript and fax it over or something like that.
Oh, yes, you can do that. But we are in the computer age.
And complain, because complaining is the right thing to do. Force them to consider open access to the tools needed to PAY TAXES.
PDFs were considered open, because they could be handled on any platform. What they understand for open, that is. Previously, they used special software that only worked in Windows (or plain paper), so PDFs were an advance.
In the meanwhile, drink some wine. ;-)
Ha ha.
Because there are CLI tools to produce the same effect. :-p
Well, if there are CLI tools, it should be rather simple providing a button that does the CLI mangling for you. Did you open the issue and they refused? (I'd find that hard to believe - but if they did... a patch may speak louder).
I have no issue with printing booklets from PDFs, I know how to do them. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 6:10 PM, Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
On 2013-11-05 22:01, Claudio Freire wrote:
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 5:56 PM, Carlos E. R. <> wrote:
For tax, complain to the government. No government should ever require all tax payers to BUY software.
And they don't, acroread was gratis.
They should always allow you to fill out a hardcopy in manuscript and fax it over or something like that.
Oh, yes, you can do that. But we are in the computer age.
And complain, because complaining is the right thing to do. Force them to consider open access to the tools needed to PAY TAXES.
PDFs were considered open, because they could be handled on any platform. What they understand for open, that is.
Well... was being the operative word.
Previously, they used special software that only worked in Windows (or plain paper), so PDFs were an advance.
Maybe. But PDFs with forms? They're an abomination. HTML is for forms. And that's probably why okular and evince have a hard time dealing with them. They used to think they were rendering *documents*, now they have forms and code, it's way out of their scope. Though, Okular's page does say they're working on it. This move from Adobe will only push them to go faster. I suggest you open your issues on their bug tracker, to put some visibility on it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2013-11-05 at 19:20 -0200, Claudio Freire wrote:
Maybe. But PDFs with forms? They're an abomination. HTML is for forms.
Huh, no way. PDFs, or some equivalent, are ideal for filling forms in administrations. The users can not modify the form, they can only fill the fields, using no more than the given space. It is possible to add checking code so that what they fill is correct. They can do operations on the fields. They can add a page of "dot-codes", that can be read by automated machines, instead of OCR scanning the document. It is possible to submit the form automatically on an intranet, using a special adobe server. They may be signed. Some public and open standard could exist for this, but adobe arrived first and they dominate this niche market. I know no equivalent open project. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlJ5ZMwACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UB7gCfftFlf9AQu/JneHm/6z3g/GGP W54AnRUxdvTFrXjmZzoZGlOCt/KF0xRt =msKy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 6:36 PM, Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
On Tuesday, 2013-11-05 at 19:20 -0200, Claudio Freire wrote:
Maybe. But PDFs with forms? They're an abomination. HTML is for forms.
Huh, no way. PDFs, or some equivalent, are ideal for filling forms in administrations.
The users can not modify the form, they can only fill the fields, using no more than the given space. It is possible to add checking code so that what they fill is correct. They can do operations on the fields. They can add a page of "dot-codes", that can be read by automated machines, instead of OCR scanning the document. It is possible to submit the form automatically on an intranet, using a special adobe server. They may be signed.
Some public and open standard could exist for this, but adobe arrived first and they dominate this niche market. I know no equivalent open project.
Yes, it exists, it's called a web form. Especially if you're going to submit to some server automatically. HTML5 even allows the web form to work offline, though, granted, that's rather new. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2013-11-05 at 20:04 -0200, Claudio Freire wrote:
Some public and open standard could exist for this, but adobe arrived first and they dominate this niche market. I know no equivalent open project.
Yes, it exists, it's called a web form. Especially if you're going to submit to some server automatically.
Can you guarantee that it always prints exactly the same, in any computer and operating system? - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlJ5jJYACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WNagCgiAa7uS3KIiIa4gN6XvRMJw0Y P6AAoIhs+Vpo9I97nLhG99e7Ad+lhyJj =t/pu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 9:25 PM, Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
On Tuesday, 2013-11-05 at 20:04 -0200, Claudio Freire wrote:
Some public and open standard could exist for this, but adobe arrived first and they dominate this niche market. I know no equivalent open project.
Yes, it exists, it's called a web form. Especially if you're going to submit to some server automatically.
Can you guarantee that it always prints exactly the same, in any computer and operating system?
Doesn't matter. There'd be no printing involved. But yes, it can be guaranteed. But this is way offtopic. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-06 01:51, Claudio Freire wrote:
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 9:25 PM, Carlos E. R. <> wrote:
Can you guarantee that it always prints exactly the same, in any computer and operating system?
Doesn't matter. There'd be no printing involved. But yes, it can be guaranteed.
Wrong, it is a requirement of the administration procedures.
But this is way offtopic.
If you say so... I'm trying to explain why they use adobe acrobat for this. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
Hello, Am Dienstag, 5. November 2013 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
On Tuesday, 2013-11-05 at 19:20 -0200, Claudio Freire wrote:
Maybe. But PDFs with forms? They're an abomination. HTML is for forms.
Huh, no way. PDFs, or some equivalent, are ideal for filling forms in administrations.
The users can not modify the form, they can only fill the fields, using no more than the given space. It is possible to add checking code so that what they fill is correct.
As long as you talk only about average/non-technical users. If someone wants to enter invalid data, there are always ways to do this. For example, you can open the PDF in GIMP, fill in what you want and print it. Even if the form is submitted online, I'm quite sure there are ways to send invalid data (maybe with a modified PDF, maybe without any PDF at all). It's the old story: client side validation is nice to have, but can be tricked by an attacker (well, "tricked" can be easier than you might think - if a HTML form is validated with javascript, just switch off javascript ;-) - so in the end you can't trust client side validation to only send valid data to the server. Only server-side validation is guaranteed to really validate the data. That all said - given the amount of mails we had about this topic, I just filed bug 849112 to get a notice added to the release notes so that we officially blame Adobe for this ;-) As a side effect, we'll hopefully get less questions on the opensuse-$LANG mailinglists why acroread is no longer included. Regards, Christian Boltz -- [~/.gtkrc] Brauche ich für Mozilla Firebird, sonst macht der "Faustgroße Killerschriften greifen an!" in Formularen. [Ratti in suse-linux] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday, 2013-11-06 at 00:42 +0100, Christian Boltz wrote:
Am Dienstag, 5. November 2013 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
As long as you talk only about average/non-technical users.
Oh, well, of course :-)
That all said - given the amount of mails we had about this topic, I just filed bug 849112 to get a notice added to the release notes so that we officially blame Adobe for this ;-) As a side effect, we'll hopefully get less questions on the opensuse-$LANG mailinglists why acroread is no longer included.
Good idea. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlJ5jf0ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UfsgCeMai2c9DHR1LClTJAZyZtKGcM luQAoIODyLw9tuJd7R5FVtX7K6qY5MTg =uPOs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-05 22:10 (GMT+0100) Carlos E. R. composed:
For tax, complain to the government. No government should ever require all tax payers to BUY software.
And they don't, acroread was gratis.
Acroread's dependency is not gratis. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2013-11-05 at 16:24 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
And they don't, acroread was gratis.
Acroread's dependency is not gratis.
It is the administration generating those forms which pays, not me. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlJ5ZPgACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UEKgCfT61mHJTK29yE6SbnUgGghDa2 YVAAnRDTxTePXxFaFFPjQOKessWdrWW6 =DOgt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-05 22:36 (GMT+0100) Carlos E. R. composed:
acroread was gratis.
Acroread's dependency is not gratis.
It is the administration generating those forms which pays, not me.
It pays for a Windows and/or Mac license for every form filer wishing one? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-05 17:15, Felix Miata wrote:
I suggest to those whose government foists necessity for proprietary software on its constituents act to get their government to embrace FOSS.
Oh, I agree, but it is not practical. Actually, the move to use PDF forms instead of any other thing was an opening, because there was acrobat reader on all platforms. At worst, you can print the form with any viewer, print it, and give the paper to the administration. With acroread, you type in acroread, then print it out. What we submit to the administration is the paper, anyhow. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
On 2013-11-05 16:36, Juergen Weigert wrote:
On Nov 05, 13 16:29:27 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Do we have a petition for improving PDF-Forms (and annotations etc..) in Okular? I'd rather sign that.
Many forms do work, although sometimes they print somewhat differently. No, I think that the worst part is that some forms have code included, I think javascript, and it is this feature that is not supported on open equivalents. In fact, you have to open the same form on different viewers, and compare them with what acroread does, to find out if they work right or not. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
On 11/05/2013 10:26 AM, Dominique Leuenberger a.k.a. Dimstar pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
Quoting "Carlos E. R." <robin.listas@telefonica.net>:
On 2013-11-05 16:16, Stephan Kulow wrote:
On 05.11.2013 16:15, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I HAVE to use adobe reader, no choice.
Tried wine?
I'll have to... :-/
Feel free to join awareness-groups, trying to convince Adobe that it's worthy to invest the efforts into a Linux version.
Like http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-we-want-to-always...
It's been ongoing for > 12 months and already has 20 subscribers (hmm. seems demand is not high or nobody knows about it).
Dominique
Either they don't know about it or the site wants too much personal info. -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 4:20 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2013-11-05 16:16, Stephan Kulow wrote:
On 05.11.2013 16:15, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I HAVE to use adobe reader, no choice.
Tried wine?
I'll have to... :-/
I ask again... why? Just go here: http://get.adobe.com/reader/otherversions/ and download the RPM. Problem solved... no drama required here. C. -- openSUSE 12.3 x86_64, KDE 4.11 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-05 16:27, C wrote:
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 4:20 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2013-11-05 16:16, Stephan Kulow wrote:
On 05.11.2013 16:15, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I HAVE to use adobe reader, no choice.
Tried wine?
I'll have to... :-/
I ask again... why? Just go here: http://get.adobe.com/reader/otherversions/ and download the RPM. Problem solved... no drama required here.
But no more updates. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
* Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> [2013-11-05 16:15]:
On 2013-11-05 16:11, Dominique Leuenberger a.k.a. Dimstar wrote:
Quoting "Carlos E. R." <>:
Really? you 'RELY' on closed source software while advocating open source?
There are a bunch of PDF readers in openSUSE... which all came a long way.
My government uses pdf forms. This do not work well, sometimes not at all, with those alternatives.
I HAVE to use adobe reader, no choice.
Have you tried mupdf? It has decent js and form support and unlike most (all?) other pdf readers in openSUSE it is not based on poppler. -- Guido Berhoerster -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 06 November 2013 09:45:52 Guido Berhoerster wrote:
Have you tried mupdf? It has decent js and form support and unlike most (all?) other pdf readers in openSUSE it is not based on poppler.
I installed mupdf from openSUSE-13.1-oss repo. I can fill pdf form. But I can not find possibility to save and/or print it. I will test again in 13.1 final version. -- Viljo -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Nov 06, 13 09:45:52 +0100, Guido Berhoerster wrote:
Have you tried mupdf? It has decent js and form support and unlike most (all?) other pdf readers in openSUSE it is not based on poppler.
Thank you for the pointer! Good one! Editing forms is still primitive, but works. I understand you are currently expected to type field values on stdin. I'll try it next time if okular should fail. cheers, JW- -- o \ Juergen Weigert paint it green! __/ _=======.=======_ <V> | jw@suse.de back to ascii! __/ _---|____________\/ \ | 0911 74053-508 say #263A!__/ (____/ /\ (/) | _____________________________/ _/ \_ vim:set sw=2 wm=8 SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, J.Guild, F.Imendoerffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg), Maxfeldstrasse 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany SuSE. Supporting Linux since 1992. ☺ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday, 2013-11-06 at 09:45 +0100, Guido Berhoerster wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <> [2013-11-05 16:15]:
My government uses pdf forms. This do not work well, sometimes not at all, with those alternatives.
I HAVE to use adobe reader, no choice.
Have you tried mupdf? It has decent js and form support and unlike most (all?) other pdf readers in openSUSE it is not based on poppler.
Ok, just tried it in 13.1 RC2 (upgraded for testing from 12.3). It can just display the form, but you can not write on it. Further, it hangs. I tried to close it, refused, and had to kill nine it. With evince at least you can write on the form (but the buttons do not work). ** (evince:5005): WARNING **: Unimplemented action: POPPLER_ACTION_JAVASCRIPT, please post a bug report in Evince bugzilla (http://bugzilla.gnome.org) with a testcase. The form I tested is this: http://smarte-forms.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/birth-certificate-appl... Here you have more items: http://www.seg-social.es/Internet_6/Pensionistas/Servicios/Solicitudesdepres... - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlJ6zzwACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XNygCfZt2O9W655lmUHgMEkcHta8UV rrgAnig7v4jKqtq4yfRCV3z3UqT4edlz =Ho7c -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
http://smarte-forms.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/birth-certificate-appl... works with okular You can fill out all forms and use male/female and whatever else buttons. no issues. after filling out you can print it, or if you want to save it fill it out and print it to a .pdf file 2013/11/6 Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net>:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On Wednesday, 2013-11-06 at 09:45 +0100, Guido Berhoerster wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <> [2013-11-05 16:15]:
My government uses pdf forms. This do not work well, sometimes not at all, with those alternatives.
I HAVE to use adobe reader, no choice.
Have you tried mupdf? It has decent js and form support and unlike most (all?) other pdf readers in openSUSE it is not based on poppler.
Ok, just tried it in 13.1 RC2 (upgraded for testing from 12.3). It can just display the form, but you can not write on it. Further, it hangs. I tried to close it, refused, and had to kill nine it.
With evince at least you can write on the form (but the buttons do not work).
** (evince:5005): WARNING **: Unimplemented action: POPPLER_ACTION_JAVASCRIPT, please post a bug report in Evince bugzilla (http://bugzilla.gnome.org) with a testcase.
The form I tested is this:
http://smarte-forms.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/birth-certificate-appl...
Here you have more items:
http://www.seg-social.es/Internet_6/Pensionistas/Servicios/Solicitudesdepres...
- -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
iEYEARECAAYFAlJ6zzwACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XNygCfZt2O9W655lmUHgMEkcHta8UV rrgAnig7v4jKqtq4yfRCV3z3UqT4edlz =Ho7c -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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On 2013-11-07 09:45, Damian Ivanov wrote:
http://smarte-forms.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/birth-certificate-appl... works with okular You can fill out all forms and use male/female and whatever else buttons. no issues. after filling out you can print it, or if you want to save it fill it out and print it to a .pdf file
No. Okular displays a warning, at least on 12.3, which says: This document has XFA forms, which are currently *unsupported* I can not test okular in 13.1, insufficient local resources. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
Yes I am using 13.1 but you get also
This document has XFA forms, which are currently *unsupported* but on the right side (at the line of this message) you have a button "show forms" after that you can fill them and use all the buttons. You can then go to File=> print preview, you will see that the forms are as you filled them
2013/11/7 Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net>:
On 2013-11-07 09:45, Damian Ivanov wrote:
http://smarte-forms.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/birth-certificate-appl... works with okular You can fill out all forms and use male/female and whatever else buttons. no issues. after filling out you can print it, or if you want to save it fill it out and print it to a .pdf file
No.
Okular displays a warning, at least on 12.3, which says:
This document has XFA forms, which are currently *unsupported*
I can not test okular in 13.1, insufficient local resources.
-- Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday, 2013-11-07 at 09:59 +0100, Damian Ivanov wrote:
Yes I am using 13.1 but you get also
This document has XFA forms, which are currently *unsupported* but on the right side (at the line of this message) you have a button "show forms" after that you can fill them and use all the buttons. You can then go to File=> print preview, you will see that the forms are as you filled them
Not all the buttons. For instance, on acroread, you get a calendar when trying to enter the date. The "reset" button in okular (12.3) does not reset the data, and "print" does nothing. All that means that the javscript code is not working. I'm sure that 13.1 will have this improved, but I'm also sure that support is incomplete. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlJ7XqgACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WT8gCfeOEGL8Hoxi2WuKzZ+dcV7yJt 8U8An2Qddy4Bh95ZCOZgaxzzTIIMsgWB =mCcJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 07 November 2013, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Thursday, 2013-11-07 at 09:59 +0100, Damian Ivanov wrote:
Yes I am using 13.1 but you get also
This document has XFA forms, which are currently *unsupported*
but on the right side (at the line of this message) you have a button "show forms" after that you can fill them and use all the buttons. You can then go to File=> print preview, you will see that the forms are as you filled them
Not all the buttons.
For instance, on acroread, you get a calendar when trying to enter the date.
The "reset" button in okular (12.3) does not reset the data, and "print" does nothing.
All that means that the javscript code is not working.
Have you tried google-chrome's built-in viewer? I guess this one would show you the most pdfs correctly (after acroread).
I'm sure that 13.1 will have this improved, but I'm also sure that support is incomplete.
-- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday, 2013-11-07 at 14:42 +0100, Ruediger Meier wrote:
All that means that the javscript code is not working.
Have you tried google-chrome's built-in viewer? I guess this one would show you the most pdfs correctly (after acroread).
Most of the PDFs I use are local. Ok, let's try... they display, but javascript doesn't work. And no certificates. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlJ78W0ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9Wp9ACeI+b6KAYF69TF7eq2N+xGFOgT xUkAoIowQiITNLA6KBvwoSRaPe9OrsGh =xTgL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, 07 Nov 2013 09:54:18 +0100 "Carlos E. R." <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
On 2013-11-07 09:45, Damian Ivanov wrote:
http://smarte-forms.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/birth-certificate-appl... works with okular You can fill out all forms and use male/female and whatever else buttons. no issues. after filling out you can print it, or if you want to save it fill it out and print it to a .pdf file
No.
Okular displays a warning, at least on 12.3, which says:
This document has XFA forms, which are currently *unsupported*
I can not test okular in 13.1, insufficient local resources.
I've just tried this in Okular 0.17.2 in 13.1 and it partially works. I got the same warning as you but clicked on the 'show forms' button and was able to fill in some of the data. For instance, I can fill in 'date of birth' but not change the subsequent 'day', 'month', 'year' values. -- Graham Davis, Bracknell, Berks. openSUSE 13.1-RC2 (64-bit); KDE 4.11.2; AMD Phenom II X2 550 Processor; Kernel: 3.11.6; Video: nVidia GeForce 210 (using nouveau driver); Sound: ATI SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA); Wireless: BCM4306
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 6:11 AM, Graham P Davis <hacker@scarlet-jade.com> wrote:
On Thu, 07 Nov 2013 09:54:18 +0100 "Carlos E. R." <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
On 2013-11-07 09:45, Damian Ivanov wrote:
http://smarte-forms.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/birth-certificate-appl... works with okular You can fill out all forms and use male/female and whatever else buttons. no issues. after filling out you can print it, or if you want to save it fill it out and print it to a .pdf file
No.
Okular displays a warning, at least on 12.3, which says:
This document has XFA forms, which are currently *unsupported*
I can not test okular in 13.1, insufficient local resources.
I've just tried this in Okular 0.17.2 in 13.1 and it partially works. I got the same warning as you but clicked on the 'show forms' button and was able to fill in some of the data. For instance, I can fill in 'date of birth' but not change the subsequent 'day', 'month', 'year' values.
I tried in 13.1 and buttons don't work either. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
* Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> [2013-11-07 08:31]:
Ok, just tried it in 13.1 RC2 (upgraded for testing from 12.3). It can just display the form, but you can not write on it. Further, it hangs. I tried to close it, refused, and had to kill nine it.
It doesn't hang, when activating a form field it prompts you on the console and the pdf you posted can be filled just fine. The problem is that saving pdfs is not implemented in the X11-based UI yet, right now that only seems work on Windows and Android. -- Guido Berhoerster -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday, 2013-11-07 at 11:44 +0100, Guido Berhoerster wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <> [2013-11-07 08:31]:
Ok, just tried it in 13.1 RC2 (upgraded for testing from 12.3). It can just display the form, but you can not write on it. Further, it hangs. I tried to close it, refused, and had to kill nine it.
It doesn't hang, when activating a form field it prompts you on the console and the pdf you posted can be filled just fine.
How weird. Yes, it does that.
The problem is that saving pdfs is not implemented in the X11-based UI yet, right now that only seems work on Windows and Android.
Saving PDFs with forms is also not possible in acroread, so that's not a problem. You can save a copy, though, without data filled in. Correction, the above is no longer true. You can save the filled form in acroread, this is a new feature. It was disabled previously. Another needed feature is certificate verification. I get receipts from banks and other agencies, signed, and adobe is the only one I know that can verify those signatures. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlJ7clUACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UvpgCeMNrtQ0AQZ/mVQ9ySy8wVCIrF AoAAnic9YA7QzJFXVl2rSvBJ+gqAUwSS =a6UE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
* Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> [2013-11-07 11:58]:
On Thursday, 2013-11-07 at 11:44 +0100, Guido Berhoerster wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <> [2013-11-07 08:31]:
Ok, just tried it in 13.1 RC2 (upgraded for testing from 12.3). It can just display the form, but you can not write on it. Further, it hangs. I tried to close it, refused, and had to kill nine it.
It doesn't hang, when activating a form field it prompts you on the console and the pdf you posted can be filled just fine.
How weird. Yes, it does that.
Not weird, the X11-UI does not use a toolkit and is just underdeveloped compared to Android/Windows. I think there were plans to write a GTK-based frontend at some point. mupdf is primarily a library, the mupdf executable is more of a reference implementation of a pdf viewer.
The problem is that saving pdfs is not implemented in the X11-based UI yet, right now that only seems work on Windows and Android.
Saving PDFs with forms is also not possible in acroread, so that's not a problem. You can save a copy, though, without data filled in.
Correction, the above is no longer true. You can save the filled form in acroread, this is a new feature. It was disabled previously.
Since the X11-based mupdf viewer cannot print, saving would actually be necessary to print filled forms.
Another needed feature is certificate verification. I get receipts from banks and other agencies, signed, and adobe is the only one I know that can verify those signatures.
mupdf 1.3 has initial support for signature verification, unfortunately it cannot be updated since openjpeg2 is not in Factory. -- Guido Berhoerster -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday, 2013-11-07 at 12:23 +0100, Guido Berhoerster wrote:
* Carlos E. R. <> [2013-11-07 11:58]:
It doesn't hang, when activating a form field it prompts you on the console and the pdf you posted can be filled just fine.
How weird. Yes, it does that.
Not weird, the X11-UI does not use a toolkit and is just underdeveloped compared to Android/Windows. I think there were plans to write a GTK-based frontend at some point. mupdf is primarily a library, the mupdf executable is more of a reference implementation of a pdf viewer.
...
Since the X11-based mupdf viewer cannot print, saving would actually be necessary to print filled forms.
I see... curious. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlJ776QACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UXAgCgkv+d/n3qfDU/vx0q1dlDZJW4 lWUAn1YnaDOlHJxRMSvYc2faCZG0+uAI =5ZhS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 В Thu, 7 Nov 2013 00:22:25 +0100 (CET) "Carlos E. R." <robin.listas@telefonica.net> пишет:
The form I tested is this:
http://smarte-forms.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/birth-certificate-appl...
It looks promising in evince, although Russian text becomes invisible after you leave input field and there are cosmetic glitches when entering text (font does not fit). I cannot test printing it though. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlJ7wr4ACgkQR6LMutpd94ztTgCgxxMi4ka+MMaKDx0jKj8lr6Dw xaQAoLkAQrH6AmVddbj+eyYv4IRiK5so =1ae0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday, 2013-11-07 at 20:41 +0400, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:
entering text (font does not fit). I cannot test printing it though.
You should be able to print to ps file, then display it. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlJ77yAACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XWUwCdH400N2o9cj6U4MpJZWJIWxy6 rDsAnijiOQR8E8aVsayzu2G88MpnEm+u =ms6+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, 7 Nov 2013 00:22:25 +0100 (CET) Carlos E. R. wrote:
The form I tested is this:
http://smarte-forms.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/birth-certificate-appl...
Try 'qpdfview'. I can fill the forms and save as a new file. The buttons don't work, though. Maintained in home:Lazy_Kent. - -- WBR Kyrill -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iEYEARECAAYFAlJ9M+YACgkQkD2T1YT4wYF8tgCgmh9nldbR4n3S/Coj0nbnoAX2 TlcAnRzSQak9bjQgqN8adKfUJke68Cm7 =7nHP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- N�����r��y隊Z)z{.���r�+�맲��r��z�^�ˬz��N�(�֜��^� ޭ隊Z)z{.���r�+��0�����Ǩ�
* Kyrill Detinov <lazy.kent@opensuse.org> [2013-11-08 19:56]:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On Thu, 7 Nov 2013 00:22:25 +0100 (CET) Carlos E. R. wrote:
The form I tested is this:
http://smarte-forms.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/birth-certificate-appl...
Try 'qpdfview'. I can fill the forms and save as a new file. The buttons don't work, though. Maintained in home:Lazy_Kent.
That's still using poppler though, so if it doesn't work with evince/okular it work with qpdfview either... -- Guido Berhoerster -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
* Guido Berhoerster <gber@opensuse.org> [2013-11-09 00:14]:
* Kyrill Detinov <lazy.kent@opensuse.org> [2013-11-08 19:56]:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On Thu, 7 Nov 2013 00:22:25 +0100 (CET) Carlos E. R. wrote:
The form I tested is this:
http://smarte-forms.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/birth-certificate-appl...
Try 'qpdfview'. I can fill the forms and save as a new file. The buttons don't work, though. Maintained in home:Lazy_Kent.
That's still using poppler though, so if it doesn't work with evince/okular it work with qpdfview either...
meant to say: it won't work with qpdfview either -- Guido Berhoerster -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2013-11-09 at 00:17 +0100, Guido Berhoerster wrote:
Try 'qpdfview'. I can fill the forms and save as a new file. The buttons don't work, though. Maintained in home:Lazy_Kent.
That's still using poppler though, so if it doesn't work with evince/okular it work with qpdfview either...
meant to say: it won't work with qpdfview either
That the buttons do not work is significative, it means that javascript is not working. It is possible that it does not matter: for reset we can reload, and for print we can use the menu. But there is no assurance that there is no more code in the form that does more things. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlJ9kGoACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VkVACfVfIOhCD7mArrd7VPzio51FxP u9QAnjLL11yDcTQTkmE9qXM0Ly/H9EUq =DAEv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Saturday 2013-11-09 02:31, Carlos E. R. wrote:
That the buttons do not work is significative, it means that javascript is not working. It is possible that it does not matter: for reset we can reload, and for print we can use the menu. But there is no assurance that there is no more code in the form that does more things.
On the upside, that means you are not potentially executing untrusted code :) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2013-11-09 at 03:12 +0100, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
On Saturday 2013-11-09 02:31, Carlos E. R. wrote:
That the buttons do not work is significative, it means that javascript is not working. It is possible that it does not matter: for reset we can reload, and for print we can use the menu. But there is no assurance that there is no more code in the form that does more things.
On the upside, that means you are not potentially executing untrusted code :)
If I'm filling a form from my government, the point is moot. That code is needed, whatever it is. I have to trust my government, even if I don't. For instance, some forms (I don't have a sample) generate a page full of dot codes. When you print the form and submit it in paper they scan those dote codes with a laser hand scanner, and they get all the form data into their computer system. That's one of the reasons the administration love these adobe forms, they are fast and they work. I assume that those dot codes (like bar codes, with way more data), are generated by that javscript code. So, IF I get one of those forms I do have to run the code, no alternative. Obviously I do not want to run code from unknown sources. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlJ9nmQACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XX4ACfeaECPUxBXk5Mxch1soXNN3YR XN4AoJgaYxorp595j6pGJYA6Eb7An6qj =1Td0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Dominique Leuenberger a.k.a. Dimstar wrote:
Quoting "Carlos E. R." <carlos.e.r@opensuse.org>:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 2013-11-05 16:02, Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:
On 11/05/2013 09:55 AM, Carlos E. R. pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
Simply means that the product is no longer maintained for linux and is dropped. If you want acrobat reader you will need to download and install it and maintain it yourself.
This should go to the release notes. It is important enough not to install 13.1, or to install Windows instead. :-/
Really? you 'RELY' on closed source software while advocating open source?
That is an unfortunate truth of life. No matter how much you advocate open source, you will most probably always rely on closed source ditto. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (10.2°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 4:05 PM, Carlos E. R. <carlos.e.r@opensuse.org> wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 2013-11-05 16:02, Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:
On 11/05/2013 09:55 AM, Carlos E. R. pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
Simply means that the product is no longer maintained for linux and is dropped. If you want acrobat reader you will need to download and install it and maintain it yourself.
This should go to the release notes. It is important enough not to install 13.1, or to install Windows instead. :-/
That's rather dramatic.... Okular works for 99% of all PDFs... and if you _really_ need Acroread, getting it from here: http://get.adobe.com/reader/otherversions/ is pretty easy. They provide RPMs of 9.5.5 (the last version of Acroread for Linux). That's really not so different than installing Skype... or Teamviewer... or... C. -- openSUSE 12.3 x86_64, KDE 4.10 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 05 November 2013, Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:
On 11/05/2013 09:55 AM, Carlos E. R. pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 2013-11-05 15:52, Dominique Leuenberger a.k.a. Dimstar wrote:
Quoting Viljo Mustonen <>:
1. No Acro Reader.
That's a feature, thanks to Adobe: 202001 State:accepted By:scarabeus_factory When:2013-10-03T12:38:53 delete: openSUSE:Factory:NonFree/acroread Review by Group is new: legal-auto Review by Group is new: factory-auto From: review(msmeissn) Descr: now unmaintained by adobe. bnc#843835 Comment: Dropping as this broke factory-auto so it won't in fact be ever reviewed by those.
Please, could you please explain what does this mean?
Simply means that the product is no longer maintained for linux and is dropped. If you want acrobat reader you will need to download and install it and maintain it yourself.
Hm, personally I don't use acroread. Nevertheless I think it shouldn't have been removed because we know it's still needed for many cases. Just add it again, don't install per default, warn the user that it's broken and unmaintained. Maybe remove it from DVD but keep it in non-oss repo. For me it makes no sense to remove it completely just to tell everybody that they should download the same manually... BTW what about the update scenario? Will it be removed when upgrading to 13.1? I guess not - so the broken acroread issue is probably not fixed on upgrade anyway. And if our acroread scruples would be really honest then we would need to remove it from 12.x too via zypper patch. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 5:01 PM, Ruediger Meier <sweet_f_a@gmx.de> wrote:
Hm, personally I don't use acroread. Nevertheless I think it shouldn't have been removed because we know it's still needed for many cases.
Just add it again, don't install per default, warn the user that it's broken and unmaintained. Maybe remove it from DVD but keep it in non-oss repo. For me it makes no sense to remove it completely just to tell everybody that they should download the same manually...
BTW what about the update scenario? Will it be removed when upgrading to 13.1? I guess not - so the broken acroread issue is probably not fixed on upgrade anyway. And if our acroread scruples would be really honest then we would need to remove it from 12.x too via zypper patch.
Yes, +1 on these proposals. -- Jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 06.11.2013 00:03, Jon Nelson wrote:
BTW what about the update scenario? Will it be removed when upgrading to 13.1? I guess not - so the broken acroread issue is probably not fixed We remove all orphaned packages unless the user locks it.
Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 2:21 AM, Stephan Kulow <coolo@suse.de> wrote:
On 06.11.2013 00:03, Jon Nelson wrote:
BTW what about the update scenario? Will it be removed when upgrading to 13.1? I guess not - so the broken acroread issue is probably not fixed We remove all orphaned packages unless the user locks it.
Then something went wrong, because when I upgraded a 12.2 machine to the latest 13.1 RC, I ended up with a bunch of orphaned packages - 20 or 30 at least - and none of them were locked. -- Jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 06.11.2013 14:21, Jon Nelson wrote:
On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 2:21 AM, Stephan Kulow <coolo@suse.de> wrote:
On 06.11.2013 00:03, Jon Nelson wrote:
BTW what about the update scenario? Will it be removed when upgrading to 13.1? I guess not - so the broken acroread issue is probably not fixed We remove all orphaned packages unless the user locks it.
Then something went wrong, because when I upgraded a 12.2 machine to the latest 13.1 RC, I ended up with a bunch of orphaned packages - 20 or 30 at least - and none of them were locked.
Official 12.2 packages? If you install packages from 3rd party repos, they will only be dropped if the solver sees no other way. The list of orphaned packages is created from test cases. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday, 2013-11-07 at 12:04 +0100, Stephan Kulow wrote:
On 06.11.2013 14:21, Jon Nelson wrote:
Then something went wrong, because when I upgraded a 12.2 machine to the latest 13.1 RC, I ended up with a bunch of orphaned packages - 20 or 30 at least - and none of them were locked.
Official 12.2 packages? If you install packages from 3rd party repos, they will only be dropped if the solver sees no other way.
The list of orphaned packages is created from test cases.
I don't know if this is the case, but when you upgrade a machine with the offline, DVD, method, there are hundreds of packages not included in the DVD that can not be upgraded and are left from the previous version. The user may not be aware that after a DVD upgrade he has to run zypper up and zypper dup. And even after doing that, there may remain packages from the previous release, or from other repos that have to be taken care manually. The situation could be improved if we could add external repos during the DVD upgrade; you can, but in this case the online repos are prefered and _everything_ is installed from internet instead of taking what is available from the DVD, and only whatever is missing from outside. Changing the priority of the repos do not work. Ie, we would need to add secondary sources, such that if a package exist on the DVD, it is used, even if older than what exist online. This is an specific situation, different than what yast needs to do on normal usage. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlJ7djYACgkQtTMYHG2NR9W7agCdEoGZ1t/3d7I3bzGNJRNcIVOQ gxMAnRqZA8LwQkUhItcwJtDM3vc/gYbt =vrl/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, 2013-11-07 at 12:15 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
The situation could be improved if we could add external repos during the DVD upgrade; you can, but in this case the online repos are prefered and _everything_ is installed from internet instead of taking what is available from the DVD,
Hi I can't see any point with the DVD install or upgrade. Aren't most of the packages you burn out of date? You have to zypper dup afterwards anyway so as you say, why not just get the net image and install from that in the first place? Are there advantages of the DVD? L x -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday, 2013-11-07 at 12:24 +0100, lynn wrote:
Are there advantages of the DVD?
Oh, yes. For example, the current situation is that zypper dup from 12.3 to 13.1 will fail, unless you update certain packages in advance. The DVD upgrade to 13.1 removes certain items in fstab. Zypper dup doesn't, and has to be done by hand. There is also a problem with btrfs on /usr. On certain situations, when the user "destroys" his system, a DVD upgrade to the same version sometimes is capable or repairing it. The DVD is capable of upgrading from 32 to 64 bits. It is not a suported scenario, but it works. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlJ77j0ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9V8IgCdHy4b7bSwuocWbbgfALsC6GGV /g8AmQHcSJp59hySAF65d1JQcErrHZLx =Ajgy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday, 2013-11-07 at 12:24 +0100, lynn wrote:
Are there advantages of the DVD?
Oh, yes.
For example, the current situation is that zypper dup from 12.3 to 13.1 will fail, unless you update certain packages in advance.
The DVD upgrade to 13.1 removes certain items in fstab. Zypper dup doesn't, and has to be done by hand.
That seems broken, and I'd consider that a bug. Can you provide more details? -- Jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday, 2013-11-07 at 16:53 -0600, Jon Nelson wrote:
The DVD upgrade to 13.1 removes certain items in fstab. Zypper dup doesn't, and has to be done by hand.
That seems broken, and I'd consider that a bug. Can you provide more details?
It has been told here before, and devs are onto it already. Subject: Re: [opensuse-factory] release notes 13.1 review - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlJ8PGwACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UC1wCglG2/mJAcrjgngOCbkWuXokZk pxUAni01S/pJR2XLZQC5CGEQsmG8I4A8 =qHUX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 07 November 2013, Stephan Kulow wrote:
On 06.11.2013 14:21, Jon Nelson wrote:
On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 2:21 AM, Stephan Kulow <coolo@suse.de> wrote:
On 06.11.2013 00:03, Jon Nelson wrote:
BTW what about the update scenario? Will it be removed when upgrading to 13.1? I guess not - so the broken acroread issue is probably not fixed
We remove all orphaned packages unless the user locks it.
Then something went wrong, because when I upgraded a 12.2 machine to the latest 13.1 RC, I ended up with a bunch of orphaned packages - 20 or 30 at least - and none of them were locked.
Official 12.2 packages? If you install packages from 3rd party repos, they will only be dropped if the solver sees no other way.
My original 12.3 acroread package was also not uninstalled when upgrading to 13.1. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Ruediger Meier wrote:
On Tuesday 05 November 2013, Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:
On 11/05/2013 09:55 AM, Carlos E. R. pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 2013-11-05 15:52, Dominique Leuenberger a.k.a. Dimstar wrote:
Quoting Viljo Mustonen <>:
1. No Acro Reader.
That's a feature, thanks to Adobe: 202001 State:accepted By:scarabeus_factory When:2013-10-03T12:38:53 delete: openSUSE:Factory:NonFree/acroread Review by Group is new: legal-auto Review by Group is new: factory-auto From: review(msmeissn) Descr: now unmaintained by adobe. bnc#843835 Comment: Dropping as this broke factory-auto so it won't in fact be ever reviewed by those.
Please, could you please explain what does this mean?
Simply means that the product is no longer maintained for linux and is dropped. If you want acrobat reader you will need to download and install it and maintain it yourself.
Hm, personally I don't use acroread. Nevertheless I think it shouldn't have been removed because we know it's still needed for many cases.
Just add it again, don't install per default, warn the user that it's broken and unmaintained. Maybe remove it from DVD but keep it in non-oss repo.
+1. Mark it as deprecated/unsupported etc. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (10.1°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 06.11.2013 10:02, Per Jessen wrote:
Just add it again, don't install per default, warn the user that it's broken and unmaintained. Maybe remove it from DVD but keep it in non-oss repo.
+1. Mark it as deprecated/unsupported etc.
Plus around as you want, but there is no voting going on. We have rules for unmaintained software and they make sense. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Stephan Kulow wrote:
On 06.11.2013 10:02, Per Jessen wrote:
Just add it again, don't install per default, warn the user that it's broken and unmaintained. Maybe remove it from DVD but keep it in non-oss repo.
+1. Mark it as deprecated/unsupported etc.
Plus around as you want, but there is no voting going on.
Be sarcastic all you want - I'm sure you know that meaning of "+1" even outside the context of a vote.
We have rules for unmaintained software and they make sense.
Maybe they don't always. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (12.2°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Quoting Viljo Mustonen <viljo.mustonen@pp.inet.fi>:
On Sunday 03 November 2013 17:04:09 Basil Chupin wrote:
A general question, and a whinge, about being asked to test a release of something like RC2 of oS.
In here 64 bit RC2 works pretty well.
Two most annoying things:
1. No Acro Reader.
By the way: you can still get an rpm from Adobe directly: ftp://ftp.adobe.com/pub/adobe/reader/unix/9.x/9.5.5/enu/ Latest release is 9.5.5.. and as far as communication goes so far, this will also be the last release. Dominique -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Dominique Leuenberger a.k.a. Dimstar <dimstar@opensuse.org> wrote:
Quoting Viljo Mustonen <viljo.mustonen@pp.inet.fi>:
On Sunday 03 November 2013 17:04:09 Basil Chupin wrote:
A general question, and a whinge, about being asked to test a release of something like RC2 of oS.
In here 64 bit RC2 works pretty well.
Two most annoying things:
1. No Acro Reader.
By the way: you can still get an rpm from Adobe directly: ftp://ftp.adobe.com/pub/adobe/reader/unix/9.x/9.5.5/enu/
Latest release is 9.5.5.. and as far as communication goes so far, this will also be the last release.
Unfortunately, I have yet to find *any* open source PDF reader that works with some tax forms, whereas Adobe's reader works just fine. -- Jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/05/2013 08:38 AM, Jon Nelson wrote:
Unfortunately, I have yet to find*any* open source PDF reader that works with some tax forms, whereas Adobe's reader works just fine.
I don't disagree with your observation Jon, but I wonder why the open-source community has trouble with some PDF's. Handling "forms" is one of the shortcomings for me. Another issue is being able to digitally sign a PDF with a smart-card token that is compatible with Adobe software on Windows. Could it be that these, and other features, are patented or copyrighted by Adobe? Regards, Lew -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-05 18:31, Lew Wolfgang wrote:
On 11/05/2013 08:38 AM, Jon Nelson wrote:
Unfortunately, I have yet to find*any* open source PDF reader that works with some tax forms, whereas Adobe's reader works just fine.
I don't disagree with your observation Jon, but I wonder why the open-source community has trouble with some PDF's. Handling "forms" is one of the shortcomings for me. Another issue is being able to digitally sign a PDF with a smart-card token that is compatible with Adobe software on Windows.
Could it be that these, and other features, are patented or copyrighted by Adobe?
Perhaps. Or forms that include code. However, if the filled form differs somehow of what acroread produces, the recipient administration may reject the form. Most of them have not ever heard of Linux, thus they see no difficulty on us using adobe. What I would like to know is why adobe does this to us :-( -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
Am 05.11.2013 21:16, schrieb Carlos E. R.:
On 2013-11-05 18:31, Lew Wolfgang wrote:
On 11/05/2013 08:38 AM, Jon Nelson wrote:
Unfortunately, I have yet to find*any* open source PDF reader that works with some tax forms, whereas Adobe's reader works just fine.
I don't disagree with your observation Jon, but I wonder why the open-source community has trouble with some PDF's. Handling "forms" is one of the shortcomings for me. Another issue is being able to digitally sign a PDF with a smart-card token that is compatible with Adobe software on Windows.
Could it be that these, and other features, are patented or copyrighted by Adobe?
Perhaps. Or forms that include code.
However, if the filled form differs somehow of what acroread produces, the recipient administration may reject the form. Most of them have not ever heard of Linux, thus they see no difficulty on us using adobe.
What I would like to know is why adobe does this to us :-(
They are doing us a favor. In the short term there might be a period where there is no good solution for some PDFs indeed. In the long term however I am sure the lack of the proprietary fallback will help the free PDF viewers and other PDF tools to catch up faster. More users of the free viewers will draw more attention to them which also means more developers. cu Ludwig -- (o_ Ludwig Nussel //\ V_/_ http://www.suse.de/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-05 21:16 (GMT+0100) Carlos E. R. composed:
What I would like to know is why adobe does this to us :-(
$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ Costs it money to develop and distribute for a platform that doesn't generate revenue. Providing for Linux amounts to disincentive for users and businesses to stick with platforms for which it writes software that it gets paid for, i.e. facilitates losing paying customers. Who runs Photoshop or Dreamweaver on Linux, where its ports aren't native, but FOSS alternatives are? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-05 21:50, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-11-05 21:16 (GMT+0100) Carlos E. R. composed:
What I would like to know is why adobe does this to us :-(
$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $
Costs it money to develop and distribute for a platform that doesn't generate revenue.
The windows version is also free of charge, there is no revenue. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
On 2013-11-05 22:02 (GMT+0100) Carlos E. R. composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-11-05 21:16 (GMT+0100) Carlos E. R. composed:
What I would like to know is why adobe does this to us :-(
$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $
Costs it money to develop and distribute for a platform that doesn't generate revenue.
The windows version is also free of charge, there is no revenue.
The free Windows version facilitates upgrading to the pay version, Adobe Acrobat, which generates a lot of output that is not FOSS compatible; and the free version brings additional opportunity to lure users to use other pay Adobe software. It's not completely unlike the printer makers selling cheap inkjet printers that require uncheap replentishment to sustain their utility. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2013-11-05 at 16:22 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-11-05 22:02 (GMT+0100) Carlos E. R. composed:
The windows version is also free of charge, there is no revenue.
The free Windows version facilitates upgrading to the pay version, Adobe Acrobat, which generates a lot of output that is not FOSS compatible; and the free version brings additional opportunity to lure users to use other pay Adobe software. It's not completely unlike the printer makers selling cheap inkjet printers that require uncheap replentishment to sustain their utility.
Well, it is their fault for not producing the adobe creator softwares for Linux and charge for it. I'm sure that people would purchase them. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlJ5ZZsACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XCngCeKc7WbexzN66F72e4BO+UAHl4 yYQAn1PUdKl7+wpHeNbDIj2gQK0TUXW1 =uTfi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-05 22:39 (GMT+0100) Carlos E. R. composed:
Well, it is their fault for not producing the adobe creator softwares for Linux and charge for it. I'm sure that people would purchase them.
It most likely would do so, *if* it felt doing so would be profitable overall long term. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
participants (36)
-
Andrey Borzenkov -
Basil Chupin -
Brian K. White -
Bruno Friedmann -
C -
Carlos E. R. -
Carlos E. R. -
Christian Boltz -
Claudio Freire -
Cristian Rodríguez -
Damian Ivanov -
David Haller -
Dominique Leuenberger a.k.a. Dimstar -
Felix Miata -
Graham P Davis -
Guido Berhoerster -
Hans Witvliet -
Jan Engelhardt -
Jon Nelson -
Jos Poortvliet -
Juergen Weigert -
Ken Schneider - openSUSE -
Kyrill Detinov -
Larry Finger -
Lew Wolfgang -
Ludwig Nussel -
lynn -
Marcus Meissner -
Per Jessen -
Ruediger Meier -
Stefan Brüns -
Stefan Seyfried -
Stephan Kulow -
Tomáš Chvátal -
Viljo Mustonen -
Yamaban