-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2008-11-16 at 03:50 -0600, David C. Rankin wrote:

In KDE4, I think I first saw this mess in konqueror when I went to save a web page. I had already saved a similar page and my thought was to choose the previously saved filename and then add -01 at the end of the name and save. As soon as I chose the filename, the dialog immediately closed, selecting the original filename and then immediately proposed to overwrite the very file I wanted to keep. This is the nuttiest half-Gnome bastardization of the very core of a desktop that is wholly unacceptable.

Please, don't use gnome as an insult. I suspect that you found a bug, or that you have the option of "single click to open" activated, instead of double click. I always change that. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkkgF80ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XSuACeP4NTxY7QduqlAS1cUIV1NfGf z+QAmwSgN3DGT6txNAFjaOnAc3MB1YfZ =5Ei8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. wrote:

On Sunday, 2008-11-16 at 03:50 -0600, David C. Rankin wrote:

...

In KDE4, I think I first saw this mess in konqueror when I went to save a web page. I had already saved a similar page and my thought was to choose the previously saved filename and then add -01 at the end of the name and save. As soon as I chose the filename, the dialog immediately closed, selecting the original filename and then immediately proposed to overwrite the very file I wanted to keep. This is the nuttiest half-Gnome bastardization of the very core of a desktop that is wholly unacceptable.

Please, don't use gnome as an insult.

I suspect that you found a bug, or that you have the option of "single click to open" activated, instead of double click. I always change that.

-- Cheers, Carlos E. R.

Carlos, Sorry about the gnome insult. I'm still touchy on the subject since the Firefox 3 save as fiasco. Is this single-click to open a desktop setting somewhere I can check? I didn't set it because until your email, I have never heard about it before. Where should I look to confirm? -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. | Rankin Law Firm, PLLC | Countdown for openSuSE 11.1 510 Ochiltree Street | http://counter.opensuse.org/11.1/small Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 | Telephone: (936) 715-9333 | openSoftware und SystemEntwicklung Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 | http://www.opensuse.org/ www.rankinlawfirm.com | -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Anders Johansson wrote:

On Sunday 16 November 2008 22:40:55 David C. Rankin wrote:

...

Sorry about the gnome insult. I'm still touchy on the subject since the Firefox 3 save as fiasco. Is this single-click to open a desktop setting somewhere I can check? I didn't set it because until your email, I have never heard about it before. Where should I look to confirm?

Single-click is not the reason. I always have single-click to open (can't stand double-click), and my file dialog still doesn't behave like you suggest. I still think it's a bug specific to your desktop, due to some sort of configuration. I really would report it

And about the firefox save-as thing. If you're referring to the inability to type the file name in the firefox dialog, I can type the file name perfectly fine. As soon as I start typing, a little text window opens up that lets me type it in, and it works.

Anders

Your right, single-click isn't the problem. I too hate to double-click anything. The FF3 issue isn't an 11.1 issue, it was the whole change of the print to pdf file save dialog's inability to allow you to select an existing file to put the name in the filename text-box so that you can modify the name and then save the file under the new name. It has killed our use of firefox. On a daily basis, the federal court system distributes pleading via download of pdf files. All of the files require that my staff 'save as' from an index distributed by the court. The files require a naming convention of 'cause no.'_'plaintiff'_v_'defendant'_'pleading name'_'attachment no.'.pdf which looks something like this in the real-world: 89CV0010_MyClient_v_TheDefendant_RespMotionSummaryJudgment_Exh01.pdf 89CV0010_MyClient_v_TheDefendant_RespMotionSummaryJudgment_Exh02.pdf 89CV0010_MyClient_v_TheDefendant_RespMotionSummaryJudgment_Exh03.pdf 89CV0010_MyClient_v_TheDefendant_RespMotionSummaryJudgment_Exh04.pdf 89CV0010_MyClient_v_TheDefendant_RespMotionSummaryJudgment_Exh05.pdf 89CV0010_MyClient_v_TheDefendant_RespMotionSummaryJudgment_Exh06.pdf 89CV0010_MyClient_v_TheDefendant_RespMotionSummaryJudgment_Exh07.pdf FF3 went to the gnome type file save as dialog which doesn't all you to pick a previous file name, you can only pick the directory to save the file to. That means that staff can't just select and change 01 to 02, etc., they have to try and (1) remember the exact file name they just used and (2) retype the entire name without error simply to change a single character. That is why this behavior I'm seeing in KDE4 scared the hell out of me. I can just imagine some brilliant sole changing the KDE4 default save as dialog so as to cripple the entire desktop and increase the workload for saving similar files by a multiple that depends on the number of similar files to be saved. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. | Rankin Law Firm, PLLC | Countdown for openSuSE 11.1 510 Ochiltree Street | http://counter.opensuse.org/11.1/small Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 | Telephone: (936) 715-9333 | openSoftware und SystemEntwicklung Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 | http://www.opensuse.org/ www.rankinlawfirm.com | -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2008-11-16 at 16:33 -0600, David C. Rankin wrote: ...

89CV0010_MyClient_v_TheDefendant_RespMotionSummaryJudgment_Exh06.pdf 89CV0010_MyClient_v_TheDefendant_RespMotionSummaryJudgment_Exh07.pdf

FF3 went to the gnome type file save as dialog which doesn't all you to pick a previous file name, you can only pick the directory to save the file to.

I beg to differ, but the gnome save as dialog works fine - at least in 11.0 which is what I can use right now. I tested with gedit. I have an open file, select "save as", and a single click on an existing file copies the name to the edit box, where I can change a single letter if I want. To make sure I also tested with gnumeric, and I see the same dialog. I can save-as just fine. Also, FF3 in 11.0 (gnome) does allow me to save-as and change a letter - I just tried with an html page and a pdf (local file). I can't currently try with factory (broken), but I assure you that the tasks you describe are working here - unless I misunderstood your problem. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkkgzIwACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UE0QCgkRxxhQudZdB2NO+39wI4EhQQ 5JgAn0bIYbGO6YEyXwnIg5aZU4iVGNu+ =he6Q -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2008-11-16 at 20:04 -0600, Rajko M. wrote:

...

I tested with gedit. I have an open file, select "save as", and a single click on an existing file copies the name to the edit box, where I can change a single letter if I want.

The problem is print dialog that will convert html web page to pdf file.

Ah, I see. Print, then print to file. There is a file name (previous one), and directory select. There is no way to see the directory content. Are you sure it was possible before, to browse file names? I agree it is a nuisance. Then, perhaps what I would do is print always to the same name, then copy it to another place with another program. Or use a browser to select any name, and then copy-paste to the print dialog. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkkg2SoACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VQ8QCbBSA2265OnRqE3T61P7EmnYS5 djIAn2qQ08hRFC/msiTe3r2ZKnNkBQb3 =zKdr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Am Sonntag, 16. November 2008 02:41:59 schrieb Anders Johansson:

On Sunday 16 November 2008 10:50:08 David C. Rankin wrote:

...

Of all the things I think of that can wreck a desktop, none can surpass that thing that you use most of all -- The file save and file save as dialog.

In KDE4, I think I first saw this mess in konqueror when I went to save a web page. I had already saved a similar page and my thought was to choose the previously saved filename and then add -01 at the end of the name and save. As soon as I chose the filename, the dialog immediately closed, selecting the original filename and then immediately proposed to overwrite the very file I wanted to keep. This is the nuttiest half-Gnome bastardization of the very core of a desktop that is wholly unacceptable.

It doesn't do that on my system. File a bug for it if it's a real problem, but so far I haven't seen it behave that way.

Are you sure you didn't double-click? Double-clicking has the effect of "select and go", but a single click should just select it

Anders

A bug report already exists: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=427318 -- Gruß Andreas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2008-11-16 at 21:28 -0600, Rajko M. wrote:

...

Are you sure it was possible before, to browse file names? I agree it is a nuisance.

I use print to pdf since David pointed that as possibility to save web pages, but there is long discussion on Mozilla's bugzilla. I have no link, but it is in some of David's earlier complains on this new behavior.

They do not want to add that functionality, or is it too difficult or something? I suppose that, as they use the gtk toolbox they have to use the gnome or gtk print dialog, so maybe they/you have got to convince the gnome team to improve the functionality; but gnome tries very hard to be very simple, so their developers will not want to add that functionality - - I'm just guessing, I do not know.

Current gives you always "mozilla.ps" as a file name, even when you come back to print dialog from the same Firefox session.

Oh... crumbs.

...

Then, perhaps what I would do is print always to the same name, then copy it to another place with another program.

:-) That is a lot of work even for my small needs.

I always have several xterms opened, it would not be very difficult for me. How about... how about opening mozilla.pdf with acrobat, then use acrobat save as function? It is an extra step, but you have to open the pdf anyway, to check that you got what you wanted. Say acrobat or any other viewer that works; perhaps okular, that would give you the kde save as dialog (mind: I believe okular and evince might modify the file: I know one of them at least does, but I forgot which).

...

Or use a browser to select any name, and then copy-paste to the print dialog.

That is what I'm doing right now, but even that is not comfortable because the input field is too short for any practical file name length. Mine are in format: --<date>.pdf and input field is barely longer than mozilla.ps I can't see whole name which doesn't help much when I want to change only date.

Yes, I understand. Quite a nuisance. See? It is better to explain what the problem is instead of just blaming gnome and pissing gnome users ;-) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkkg6gIACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WMaQCfXsGBkHYt3CElweRveQV70CiE kiMAn3eXC+KZpCQpEVY5FokIXVMmuWET =7BrI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. wrote:

On Sunday, 2008-11-16 at 20:04 -0600, Rajko M. wrote:

...

...

I tested with gedit. I have an open file, select "save as", and a single click on an existing file copies the name to the edit box, where I can change a single letter if I want.

...

The problem is print dialog that will convert html web page to pdf file.

Ah, I see. Print, then print to file. There is a file name (previous one), and directory select. There is no way to see the directory content.

Are you sure it was possible before, to browse file names? I agree it is a nuisance.

Then, perhaps what I would do is print always to the same name, then copy it to another place with another program.

Or use a browser to select any name, and then copy-paste to the print dialog.

-- Cheers, Carlos E. R.

Oh Yes, it has been possible since the dawn of time (well almost). In the past you had the ability to use kprinter directly making the kprinter print to pdf function available in Firefox. The kprinter dialog has always been just the normal file save as dialog. Before FF3, you would simple change the Mozilla print command from: lpr ${MOZ_PRINTER_NAME:+'-P'}${MOZ_PRINTER_NAME} to: kprinter And then you would have full kde print capability from within firefox. God I hope openSuSE gets this file "save as" dialog fixed before 11.1 is unleashed. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. | Rankin Law Firm, PLLC | Countdown for openSuSE 11.1 510 Ochiltree Street | http://counter.opensuse.org/11.1/small Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 | Telephone: (936) 715-9333 | openSoftware und SystemEntwicklung Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 | http://www.opensuse.org/ www.rankinlawfirm.com | -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Rajko M. wrote:

On Sunday 16 November 2008 09:30:59 pm David C. Rankin wrote:

...

I solved it!

zypper in opera -- never looked back...

I got to give it a try. Last time I looked it was something broken, so I left it after few days.

So zypper in opera Done. It looks promising.

More than promising, the browser is awesome. I didn't know what to make of the speeddial feature at first, but now I don't know what I would do without it. ctrl+t for a new tab, and instead of a blank tab, your speeddial page greets you with thumbnails of 9 favorite quick launches of your choosing. The "pause the mouse over a tab and get a thumbnail of the hidden page" is a really cool feature as well. I configured the mailer, but then unconfigured it. It is more than capable and has some neat features, but Thunderbird is still king. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. | Rankin Law Firm, PLLC | Countdown for openSuSE 11.1 510 Ochiltree Street | http://counter.opensuse.org/11.1/small Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 | Telephone: (936) 715-9333 | openSoftware und SystemEntwicklung Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 | http://www.opensuse.org/ www.rankinlawfirm.com | -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2008-11-16 at 22:02 -0600, David C. Rankin wrote:

...

Are you sure it was possible before, to browse file names? I agree it is a nuisance.

Oh Yes, it has been possible since the dawn of time (well almost). In the past you had the ability to use kprinter directly making the kprinter print to pdf function available in Firefox. The kprinter dialog has always been just the normal file save as dialog.

I didn't use kprinter, I used some default setting, and the dialog was very simple. I had to type the filename, and default was mozilla.ps.I would have to boot an old partition to check.

Before FF3, you would simple change the Mozilla print command from:

lpr ${MOZ_PRINTER_NAME:+'-P'}${MOZ_PRINTER_NAME}

to:

kprinter

I assume that you tried and it doesn't work. I think I remember you saying so.

And then you would have full kde print capability from within firefox. God I hope openSuSE gets this file "save as" dialog fixed before 11.1 is unleashed.

If it depends from upstream, I doubt it. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkkhgVsACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XaMACgjJKHq5UxRjb0P6TpZBuKiTy6 OdgAn1uE3GNuTFdv+FXaZlEoy7CAsRUC =rotn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Richard wrote:

On Mon November 17 2008 12:39:00 am David C. Rankin wrote:

...

I configured the mailer, but then unconfigured it. It is more than capable and has some neat features, but Thunderbird is still king.

How do you 'unconfigure', remove mail? Every time I start, it goes and gets/displays mail but doesn't have the features I like that are in Kmail. At least, if the features are there, It's like going from KDE3 to KDE4, it is unintuitive as to how to get to/configure things that 'just work' in KDE3. I do like the browser though but FFox has some extensions that I really like and immediately missed in Opera, eg, the Ad suppression ad on. I have gotten so used to not seeing all the ads and headers and 'crud' from advertising in all of the web pages that when I saw them in Opera and realized how little real information is displayed due to ads taking up all the space, I need to find some equivilent mechanism in Opera before I will use it as my primary browser. Commercials/advertising is a cancer and using FFox, I can remove virtually 100% of that junk and just never see it. I am not giving up on Opera just yet, but the ad filters I get in the FFox ad ons need to have s ome equivilent function in Opera before it becomes my primary. I can just not create a mail account in Opera to solve part of my problem but I'd rather not even take up the memory by loading that 'widget'/feature. Part of it is my own fault by not knowing how to effectively use the product, and partly poor ergonomics in design of the program. If it was more intuitive and logically laid out, it would be much easier to switch. Kinda like KDE desktop needing to be "Windoze" friendly in terms of look and feel. People are used to click and drag and icons representing directories and files, so it is intuitive to manipulate these items when on a learning curve from Windoze to Linux/KDE/Gnome/whichever is your favorite. Going from TBird or KMail or PMMail (win) or Outlook is easy because they have similar 'primary controls' and configuration mechanisms. Opera isn't intuitive and the transition is (for me at least) too steep a learning curve as it is.

What I *did* like was the fact that java/flash, etc, just worked out of the box. Normally with FFox, I have to go in and find/repair links to make it work in the first place, and do the same exercise when I upgrade the product. That Opera 'just worked' out of the box was a welcome relief. It's worth working with and if I can figure out how to add features like the Ad Block ad on, that 'blocker' will go away and I can see myself using Opera as primary....at least as a browser. The mail function is a bit 'iffy' as to if it will ever replace KMail/TBird though it would be nice because it is integrated into the main program. For now however, I will remain with KMail having converted from TBird previously.

Richard

Richard

Easy, 14:52 alchemy~> hist opera 4001 tar -cjf operaMailBU.tar.bz2 ~/.opera/mail 4003 cd ~/.opera/ 4005 rsync -av --delete nirvana:~/.opera/mail . 4005 was pulling the default empty mail profile from another opera install ;-) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. | Rankin Law Firm, PLLC | Countdown for openSuSE 11.1 510 Ochiltree Street | http://counter.opensuse.org/11.1/small Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 | Telephone: (936) 715-9333 | openSoftware und SystemEntwicklung Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 | http://www.opensuse.org/ www.rankinlawfirm.com | -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Rajko M. wrote:

On Sunday 16 November 2008 09:30:59 pm David C. Rankin wrote:

...

I solved it!

zypper in opera -- never looked back...

I got to give it a try. Last time I looked it was something broken, so I left it after few days.

So zypper in opera Done. It looks promising.

Forgot .. again, You can really make opera fly by also changing: Tools->Preferences->Advanced: Max connections to a server: 32 Max total connections: 128 -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. | Rankin Law Firm, PLLC | Countdown for openSuSE 11.1 510 Ochiltree Street | http://counter.opensuse.org/11.1/small Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 | Telephone: (936) 715-9333 | openSoftware und SystemEntwicklung Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 | http://www.opensuse.org/ www.rankinlawfirm.com | -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Mon November 17 2008 3:53:56 pm Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Richard [11-17-08 12:26]: ... ... but the ad filters I get in the FFox ad ons need to

...

have some equivilent function in Opera before it becomes my primary.

privoxy works wonders with ads and provides protection for *all* http access rather than just in ff and, from what I have seen, works better than ff's suppression. -- Patrick Shanahan

Thankyou Patrick, I'll see if I can track it down and take a look. Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Martin Vuk wrote:

On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 5:02 AM, David C. Rankin wrote:

...

Before FF3, you would simple change the Mozilla print command from:

lpr ${MOZ_PRINTER_NAME:+'-P'}${MOZ_PRINTER_NAME}

to:

kprinter

And then you would have full kde print capability from within firefox. God I hope openSuSE gets this file "save as" dialog fixed before 11.1 is unleashed.

You can do this now if you type about:config URL and search for print.print_command. As I understand, the philosophy of Firefox is not to remove advanced functionality, but to hide it from unexperienced user. But print to file dialog prooves me wrong.

Martin

Martin, I made the change to kprinter in print.print_command, but I can't tell any difference. I still get that horrible mozilla print to pdf dialog. Is this what you meant when you said it proved you wrong?? -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. | Rankin Law Firm, PLLC | Countdown for openSuSE 11.1 510 Ochiltree Street | http://counter.opensuse.org/11.1/small Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 | Telephone: (936) 715-9333 | openSoftware und SystemEntwicklung Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 | http://www.opensuse.org/ www.rankinlawfirm.com | -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Wolfgang Woehl wrote:

David C. Rankin:

...

the court. The files require a naming convention of 'cause no.'_'plaintiff'_v_'defendant'_'pleading name'_'attachment no.'.pdf which looks something like this in the real-world:

89CV0010_MyClient_v_TheDefendant_RespMotionSummaryJudgment_Exh01.pdf 89CV0010_MyClient_v_TheDefendant_RespMotionSummaryJudgment_Exh02.pdf [...]

David, on a sidenote, you could probably put a batch file renamer to good use. Here I'm using Namefix (packman has a package) which offers the additional benefit of being well taken care of by perl dudes who know their gear, much unlike those creepy bash types :)

Wolfgang

Thanks Wolfgang ..again..I'll take a look. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. | Rankin Law Firm, PLLC | Countdown for openSuSE 11.1 510 Ochiltree Street | http://counter.opensuse.org/11.1/small Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 | Telephone: (936) 715-9333 | openSoftware und SystemEntwicklung Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 | http://www.opensuse.org/ www.rankinlawfirm.com | -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org