Dne středa 26. dubna 2017 18:31:57 CEST, Marco Calistri napsal(a):

Hello,

I was thinking on how it could be useful to have implemented also into Tumbleweed functions similar as: "apt-get autoclean" "apt-get autoremove", in order to clean the repository cache and get rid of unused installed packages.

If such features are already present in some way, please accept my apologies and please point me on how I can use it on openSUSE TW.

Another appreciable feature to add IMHO, would be removing an entire pattern, including all the packages belonging to it in just one step:

I.E.: "zypper rm Gnome" (obtaining as result the overall remotion of all the gnome related packages, preserving in any case the system dependencies)

Try rpmorphan and in YaST SW management display package categories and see unneeded and orphaned packages. Is it enough? :) -- Vojtěch Zeisek Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux https://www.opensuse.org/ https://trapa.cz/

"zypper packages --orphaned" displays also orphaned packages On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 8:02 PM, Marco Calistri wrote:

Il 26/04/2017 13:57, Vojtěch Zeisek ha scritto:

...

Dne středa 26. dubna 2017 18:31:57 CEST, Marco Calistri napsal(a):

...

Hello,

I was thinking on how it could be useful to have implemented also into Tumbleweed functions similar as: "apt-get autoclean" "apt-get autoremove", in order to clean the repository cache and get rid of unused installed packages.

If such features are already present in some way, please accept my apologies and please point me on how I can use it on openSUSE TW.

Another appreciable feature to add IMHO, would be removing an entire pattern, including all the packages belonging to it in just one step:

I.E.: "zypper rm Gnome" (obtaining as result the overall remotion of all the gnome related packages, preserving in any case the system dependencies)

Try rpmorphan and in YaST SW management display package categories and see unneeded and orphaned packages. Is it enough? :)

Never tested both,

I will give them a look.

Mni tks for the feedback!

Cheers, -- TThheerree''ss aann EEcchhoo iinn hheerree.

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Il 26/04/2017 14:28, Stratos Zolotas ha scritto:

"zypper packages --orphaned" displays also orphaned packages

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 8:02 PM, Marco Calistri wrote:

...

Il 26/04/2017 13:57, Vojtěch Zeisek ha scritto:

...

Dne středa 26. dubna 2017 18:31:57 CEST, Marco Calistri napsal(a):

...

Hello,

I was thinking on how it could be useful to have implemented also into Tumbleweed functions similar as: "apt-get autoclean" "apt-get autoremove", in order to clean the repository cache and get rid of unused installed packages.

If such features are already present in some way, please accept my apologies and please point me on how I can use it on openSUSE TW.

Another appreciable feature to add IMHO, would be removing an entire pattern, including all the packages belonging to it in just one step:

I.E.: "zypper rm Gnome" (obtaining as result the overall remotion of all the gnome related packages, preserving in any case the system dependencies)

Try rpmorphan and in YaST SW management display package categories and see unneeded and orphaned packages. Is it enough? :)

Never tested both,

I will give them a look.

Mni tks for the feedback!

Cheers, -- TThheerree''ss aann EEcchhoo iinn hheerree.

Good to know! Please evaluate also "missing points" by your Genius minds! Regards, -- TThheerree''ss aann EEcchhoo iinn hheerree.

I use this oneliner : sudo zypper rm $(sudo zypper packages --orphaned --unneeded | awk -F "|" '/^i/ {print $3}') and afer clean run "zypper dup" On 26 April 2017 at 19:47, Marco Calistri wrote:

Il 26/04/2017 14:28, Stratos Zolotas ha scritto:

...

"zypper packages --orphaned" displays also orphaned packages

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 8:02 PM, Marco Calistri wrote:

...

Il 26/04/2017 13:57, Vojtěch Zeisek ha scritto:

...

Dne středa 26. dubna 2017 18:31:57 CEST, Marco Calistri napsal(a):

...

Hello,

I was thinking on how it could be useful to have implemented also into Tumbleweed functions similar as: "apt-get autoclean" "apt-get autoremove", in order to clean the repository cache and get rid of unused installed packages.

If such features are already present in some way, please accept my apologies and please point me on how I can use it on openSUSE TW.

Another appreciable feature to add IMHO, would be removing an entire pattern, including all the packages belonging to it in just one step:

I.E.: "zypper rm Gnome" (obtaining as result the overall remotion of all the gnome related packages, preserving in any case the system dependencies)

Try rpmorphan and in YaST SW management display package categories and see unneeded and orphaned packages. Is it enough? :)

Never tested both,

I will give them a look.

Mni tks for the feedback!

Cheers, -- TThheerree''ss aann EEcchhoo iinn hheerree.

Good to know!

Please evaluate also "missing points" by your Genius minds!

Regards,

-- TThheerree''ss aann EEcchhoo iinn hheerree. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Noted! Thanks, Marco Il 26/04/2017 15:25, Ondřej Súkup ha scritto:

I use this oneliner : sudo zypper rm $(sudo zypper packages --orphaned --unneeded | awk -F "|" '/^i/ {print $3}')

and afer clean run "zypper dup"

On 26 April 2017 at 19:47, Marco Calistri wrote:

...

Il 26/04/2017 14:28, Stratos Zolotas ha scritto:

...

"zypper packages --orphaned" displays also orphaned packages

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 8:02 PM, Marco Calistri wrote:

...

Il 26/04/2017 13:57, Vojtěch Zeisek ha scritto:

...

Dne středa 26. dubna 2017 18:31:57 CEST, Marco Calistri napsal(a):

...

Hello,

I was thinking on how it could be useful to have implemented also into Tumbleweed functions similar as: "apt-get autoclean" "apt-get autoremove", in order to clean the repository cache and get rid of unused installed packages.

If such features are already present in some way, please accept my apologies and please point me on how I can use it on openSUSE TW.

Another appreciable feature to add IMHO, would be removing an entire pattern, including all the packages belonging to it in just one step:

I.E.: "zypper rm Gnome" (obtaining as result the overall remotion of all the gnome related packages, preserving in any case the system dependencies)

Try rpmorphan and in YaST SW management display package categories and see unneeded and orphaned packages. Is it enough? :)

Never tested both,

I will give them a look.

Mni tks for the feedback!

Cheers, -- TThheerree''ss aann EEcchhoo iinn hheerree.

Good to know!

Please evaluate also "missing points" by your Genius minds!

Regards,

-- TThheerree''ss aann EEcchhoo iinn hheerree. .

-- TThheerree''ss aann EEcchhoo iinn hheerree. N�����r��y隊Z)z{.���r�+�맲��r��z�^�ˬz��N�(�֜��^� ޭ隊Z)z{.���r�+��0�����Ǩ�

On 26 April 2017 at 20:29, Nate Graham wrote:

On 04/26/2017 11:28 AM, Stratos Zolotas wrote:

...

"zypper packages --orphaned" displays also orphaned packages

$ zypper packages --orphaned Loading repository data... Reading installed packages... S | Repository | Name | Version | Arch --+------------+-----------------------+-------------+------- i | @System | SpiderOak | 2:6.1.9-1 | x86_64 i | @System | dropbox-servicemenu | 0.16.1-2.14 | noarch i | @System | libqscintilla2-qt5-12 | 2.9.3-1.3 | x86_64 i | @System | luckybackup | 0.4.8-1.32 | x86_64

libqscintilla2-qt5 is probably a real orphan, but the remaining three are packages I specifically installed myself from repos that are now disabled. Is there a way to make it ignore packages that are orphaned solely because their repo is disabled?

of course , packages without repository are set as @System repo and considered orphaned way is "zypper lock package"

I really wish more software were available in the main repos...

Nate

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Il 26/04/2017 16:14, Anton Aylward ha scritto:

On 26/04/17 02:25 PM, Ondřej Súkup wrote:

...

I use this oneliner : sudo zypper rm $(sudo zypper packages --orphaned --unneeded | awk -F "|" '/^i/ {print $3}')

OOH NASTY!

In my case that would remove: flash-plugin kabikaboo lightzone pdfgrep Ruby/RubyTk

All of which I use.

Sorry, not acceptable.

We need definetely a "packages dependencies sensitive" easy and strict way to do these operations on openSUSE, as we can do on Ubuntu with apt-get. Regards, -- TThheerree''ss aann EEcchhoo iinn hheerree.

On 26/04/17 01:28 PM, Stratos Zolotas wrote:

"zypper packages --orphaned" displays also orphaned packages

No, not 'also'. Far from it. That display packages for which there is no repository and hence there can be no updates. 'rpmorphan" has an entirely different algorithm and display an entirely different set. It determines which packages have no other packages depending on their installation. Well, usually. It isn't quite infallible, I've found. And sometimes those 'terminal' nodes on the tree are actually programs that you want to keep. Feeding the *all* into "zypper rm" is a serious mistake. -- Power, money, persuasion, supplication, persecution -- these can lift at a colossal humbug--push it a little--weaken it a little over the course of a century; but only laughter can blow it to rags and atoms at a blast. Against the assault of laughter nothing can stand. -- Mark Twain -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 2017-04-26 20:29, Nate Graham wrote:

I really wish more software were available in the main repos...

Step up, become a package maintainer. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

2017-04-26 19:20 GMT-03:00 Nate Graham :

On 04/26/2017 02:19 PM, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

...

On Wednesday 2017-04-26 20:29, Nate Graham wrote:

...

I really wish more software were available in the main repos...

Step up, become a package maintainer.

So all of the software I would like to be in the main repo is already available in various other OBS repos (KDE:Extra, devel:tools:ide, graphics, etc.), with maintainers listed. Is it just a matter of asking them to submit their packages to factory?

Nate

Probably yes! Regards, Luiz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

2017-04-26 22:06 GMT-03:00 Nate Graham :

On 04/26/2017 05:51 PM, Luiz Fernando Ranghetti wrote:

...

2017-04-26 19:20 GMT-03:00 Nate Graham :

...

On 04/26/2017 02:19 PM, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

...

On Wednesday 2017-04-26 20:29, Nate Graham wrote:

...

I really wish more software were available in the main repos...

Step up, become a package maintainer.

So all of the software I would like to be in the main repo is already available in various other OBS repos (KDE:Extra, devel:tools:ide, graphics, etc.), with maintainers listed. Is it just a matter of asking them to submit their packages to factory?

Nate

Probably yes!

Regards,

Luiz

All right, will do! On OBS, I see a "submit package" button when I navigate to some of the packages in question (e.g. https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/KDE:Extra/luckybackup). Is it just a matter of making a submission request to the "openSUSE:Factory" project?

Nate

Yes, but will be better to talk with the mantainers first (maybe there is a reason why that package isn't in main repo yet - not stable enought, not all dependencies are on main repo, etc) You can find the mantainer(s) on Users tab or in .changes file Rrgards, Luiz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 19:06:02 -0600 Nate Graham wrote:

On 04/26/2017 05:51 PM, Luiz Fernando Ranghetti wrote:

...

2017-04-26 19:20 GMT-03:00 Nate Graham :

...

On 04/26/2017 02:19 PM, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

...

On Wednesday 2017-04-26 20:29, Nate Graham wrote:

...

I really wish more software were available in the main repos...

Step up, become a package maintainer.

So all of the software I would like to be in the main repo is already available in various other OBS repos (KDE:Extra, devel:tools:ide, graphics, etc.), with maintainers listed. Is it just a matter of asking them to submit their packages to factory?

Nate

Probably yes!

Regards,

Luiz

All right, will do! On OBS, I see a "submit package" button when I navigate to some of the packages in question (e.g. https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/KDE:Extra/luckybackup). Is it just a matter of making a submission request to the "openSUSE:Factory" project?

Nate

On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 19:06:02 -0600 Nate Graham wrote:

On 04/26/2017 05:51 PM, Luiz Fernando Ranghetti wrote:

...

2017-04-26 19:20 GMT-03:00 Nate Graham :

...

On 04/26/2017 02:19 PM, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

...

On Wednesday 2017-04-26 20:29, Nate Graham wrote:

...

I really wish more software were available in the main repos...

Step up, become a package maintainer.

So all of the software I would like to be in the main repo is already available in various other OBS repos (KDE:Extra, devel:tools:ide, graphics, etc.), with maintainers listed. Is it just a matter of asking them to submit their packages to factory?

Nate

Probably yes!

Regards,

Luiz

All right, will do! On OBS, I see a "submit package" button when I navigate to some of the packages in question (e.g. https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/KDE:Extra/luckybackup). Is it just a matter of making a submission request to the "openSUSE:Factory" project?

Nate

Hi, I appreciate your enthusiasm. Reality is more complicated. I just want to set expectations ;) https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Factory_submissions is a bit out of date, but covers the main steps of how we review and accept packages into Factory and then TW. https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:OpenSUSE_review_team this is also a bit and will update, but gives you a high level view of what we do. Now, there could be many reasons why a maintainer has not put a package into Factory. Quality ? Readiness ? Missing dependencies ? Moreover, when a package lands in Factory, it will end up in TW and eventually Leap. This does oblige, to a certain extent, the maintainer to be ready to fix packaging bugs and in the case of a security issue, work with the security and maintenance teams to produce a fix if possible. Even with the above, I do not want to discourage you to contact maintainers and urge them to submit their packages into Factory. We all benefit, when packages are not hidden in dozens of devel or home projects. Some of them are good useful packages and deserve broader distribution. Thanks, Peter Linnell one of your humble review-team members -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 2017-04-26 16:31, Marco Calistri wrote:

Hello,

I was thinking on how it could be useful to have implemented also into Tumbleweed functions similar as: "apt-get autoclean" "apt-get autoremove", in order to clean the repository cache and get rid of unused installed packages.

If such features are already present in some way, please accept my apologies and please point me on how I can use it on openSUSE TW. you could try calling on your installed openSUSE:

apt-get autoclean and get told that it is unavailable in zypper. The full list of commands without mapping is markauto|unmarkauto|forbid-version|autoclean|autoremove|check|why|why-not

Another appreciable feature to add IMHO, would be removing an entire pattern, including all the packages belonging to it in just one step:

I.E.: "zypper rm Gnome" (obtaining as result the overall remotion of all the gnome related packages, preserving in any case the system dependencies)

the best way to do this is zypper rm -u patterns-openSUSE-gnome -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Marco Calistri wrote:

We need definetely a "packages dependencies sensitive" easy and strict way to do these operations on openSUSE, as we can do on Ubuntu with apt-get.

(OT: IIRC this feature is from Debian, not Ubuntu. Give credit where it's due) Just be aware that none of them is really foolproof, unless it is a 100% standard repo-based system. No self-compiles, no 3rd-party stuff from tgz etc. This is why I'd never run any of those auto-remove-commands blindly on my machines, but only look at what they suggest to do, and decide myself. But looking at todays systems saving space is an ridiculous attempt anyhow. (I might even guess that for e.g. texlive (6000+ packages) the metadata overhead for many of them is more than the package contents...) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 2017-04-26 19:45, Anton Aylward wrote:

BEWARE ! ! !

None of these are to be used indiscriminately for wholesale removal!

The algorithm ONLY checks for these being at the end of some kind of dependency tree. Many should not be removed.

"Orphaned" lists only those rpm that are not included in a repository. It is not exactly a cleanup.

For example, the independently installed Adobe Reader from Xerox shows up, as do many fonts and many icon sets. While these can be removed without actually triggering a cascade of other things, that doesn't mean the SHOULD be removed.

They don't show here :-) And yes, acroread is installed. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

On 27/04/17 09:07 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2017-04-26 19:45, Anton Aylward wrote:

...

BEWARE ! ! !

None of these are to be used indiscriminately for wholesale removal!

The algorithm ONLY checks for these being at the end of some kind of dependency tree. Many should not be removed.

"Orphaned" lists only those rpm that are not included in a repository. It is not exactly a cleanup.

You are failing to differentiate between the command 'rpmorphan' and the command 'zypper packages --orphaned' They are not the same; they produce two different lists. They have two different algorithms. Your assertion is true only for the latter. The former walks the while tree of dependencies in the RPM database looking for what amounts to 'end-nodes', things that have nothing depending on them. Well, OK, if it was _just_ than then it would list every executable :-) So it does a fair bit of pruning. But is is very different from the other command.

...

For example, the independently installed Adobe Reader from Xerox shows up, as do many fonts and many icon sets. While these can be removed without actually triggering a cascade of other things, that doesn't mean the SHOULD be removed.

They don't show here :-)

Try running both the commands. -- Do we, holding that the gods exist, deceive ourselves with insubstantial dreams and lies, while random careless chance and change alone control the world? --Euripides, Hecuba -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 2017-04-27 15:25, Marco Calistri wrote:

So my final question is: why *we cannot implement* such very usefuls (IMHO) features also in openSUSE?

I think, one major problem was that we would need some extra bits per package, such as if we know that it was pulled in as a dependency or explicitly requested by the user because as I understood it, such info is currently extracted from /var/log/zypp/history which is not a good place to update it. M.Andres wanted the bits to be kept in the rpm DB, but that would need some format changes that would be hard to bring upstream. Though I guess, it would not be so hard to make some own(to libzypp) database files for it. Even a DB in plain text files. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Il 26/04/2017 17:18, Jan Engelhardt ha scritto:

On Wednesday 2017-04-26 21:25, Neal Gompa wrote:

...

...

We need definetely a "packages dependencies sensitive" easy and strict way to do these operations on openSUSE, as we can do on Ubuntu with apt-get.

DNF (used in Fedora) has the concept of marking packages as "user-installed" so that actionable history commands and autoremove won't remove them, even if nothing requires them.

So does zypper I believe - it needs to know this for when you use `zypper rm -u`. .

Yeah, its true, I used the "-u" some time ago to remove all the gnome packages in this way: zypper rm -u $(rpm-qa|grep gnome) Regards, -- Marco Calistri Opensuse Tumbleweed 64 bit Intel® Core™ i5-2410M CPU @ 2.30GHz × 4 Intel® Sandybridge Mobile N�����r��y隊Z)z{.���r�+�맲��r��z�^�ˬz��N�(�֜��^� ޭ隊Z)z{.���r�+��0�����Ǩ�

On 27/04/17 02:38 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

You are failing to differentiate between the command 'rpmorphan' and the command 'zypper packages --orphaned' The first one is unknown to me and not installed.

# which rpmorphan /usr/bin/rpmorphan # rpm -qf $(which rpmorphan) rpmorphan-1.15-3.2.noarch # zypper info rpmorphan Information for package rpmorphan: ---------------------------------- Repository: openSUSE-Leap-42.1-Oss Name: rpmorphan Version: 1.15-3.2 Arch: noarch Vendor: openSUSE Installed: Yes Status: up-to-date Installed Size: 179.8 KiB Summary: List the orphaned RPM packages Description: Finds "orphaned" packages on your system. It determines which packages have no other packages depending on their installation, and shows you a list of these packages. It intends to be clone of deborphan debian tools for RPM packages. Of course that might be Repository: openSUSE-Leap-42.2-Oss in your case. For others on this thread, please note the last line of the 'description'. -- I clicked my heels together three times and wished I was in Cuba, but the reality fairy smacked me in the head and flew away laughing! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 28/04/17 08:23 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

# which rpmorphan /usr/bin/rpmorphan My post shows that I installed it to try. Then I removed it instantly, it is useless.

Ah, good! A nice sweeping statement, an absolutists one. nicve and contentious. I have, occasionally, managed to hammer in a mail with the heel of my show. But I've found that my g/f's Jimmy Chou high heels are, just like rpmorphan is for you and some unspecified task, 'useless' for hammering in nails. What is it you were trying to do with rpmorphan for which is is useless to you and which it was of use to me and others?

It lists many -lang packages, many components of libreoffice. I don't recognize them as orphaned.

I think you have a problem with the definition of 'orphaned' then. In this context it means 'no dependencies'. The core packages can function without the language packages, they are not dependent on them. They can be uninstalled without the main package stop working. The same goes for the font and skins such as libreoffice-icon-theme-breeze libreoffice-icon-theme-oxygen I also see that 'extensions' (aka plugins) and templates (auch as "libreoffice-templates-labels-letter") are listed. Yes, openoffice can function without all of these. (It can function without the KDE4 links and without 'base' as wel.) I keep saying Context is Everything and as I say in this context it means 'no dependencies'. Not 'no parents'. Not 'no use at all, please delete'. I'm sure there is some tag in YaST/Zypper that means "nice to have", or "optional" -- whatzat? "Recommended"? Oh, right. Yes, there lurking in the untoward corners of the man page on Zypper (no 'beware of the leopard' sign here, though) is the following: <quote> install-new-recommends (inr) [options] Install newly added packages recommended by already installed ones. This can typically be used to install language packages recently added to repositories or drivers for newly added hardware. </quote> This, more than anything, is a reason for proliferating your use of application-specific repertoires so you can "inr" for just, for example LibreOffice. YMMV in all this, but calling 'rpmorphan' "useless" in any absolute sense is selling short what it can be used for an a lack of understanding of what 'dependency' means. To repeat: in this context it does not mean 'parentless'. To repeat: it does not mean you should remove all these packages. ============================================= # file $(which rpmorphan) /usr/bin/rpmorphan: symbolic link to `rpmorphan.pl' Oh my! A Perl script. That means easily visible -- AND EASILY MODIFIABLE FOR THOSE OF US WHO KNOW PERL -- code, rather than something like low level libraries (such as libstorage.so.6 that I had to drill down on, see other thread). Heck, even what in /usr/lib/rpmorphan is in Perl! There in the core of all this are calls to 'rpm' for find out what packages have dependencies and what packages don't. Yes, if you are an RPM guru you can do this by hand, but its a multi-step process and if you do the CLI stuff there's the possibility of typos, so you use scripts, don't you? Well this is a script that does all. But wait! You have a problem with scripts other people wrote? -- Everything comes to him who hustles while he waits. Thomas A. Edison -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 28/04/17 09:42 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

Yes, openoffice can function without all of these. (It can function without the KDE4 links and without 'base' as wel.) No, that the basic functions continue working does not define those packages as "not needed". All those things are needed.

My opinion is that is a ridiculous statement. * I do not need, I can do without, the A4 paper package. You might, but then again, not living in North America you might not need the ones I do need :-) * I do not need all those language packages. You might choose to, but I don't. I can imagine that, for example, French speakers might choose not to install the Chinese or Russian packs. I've met some very nationalistic French who seem to wish that the English language could be proscribed (and have tried legislating same). Bleachbit can be very useful :-) * More specifically, about OpenOffice/LibreOffice, I do not need all of libreoffice-icon-theme-breeze AND libreoffice-icon-theme-oxygen AND libreoffice-icon-theme-hicontrast AND libreoffice-icon-theme-tango I'm sure Fraktur fonts are very nice if you are composing degree certificates or transcribing bible passages, but I personally have no use for them. I fact there are a LOT of fonts that I can safely delete without affecting the function of any of my programmes in any way. Rpmorpahn also lists a lot of what seem to be codecs. They too are plugins. They are not essential to the _basic_ operation of many programs, but are _optional_ if you want to process certain content, just as Fraktur fonts are 'essential' if I want to produce fancy-looking degree certificates. If anyone thinks that the output of rpmorphan is a list of packages that *HAVE* to be removed or even *SHOULD* be removed, they are gravely mistaken. That is not what rpmorphan is about. If you want a tool that deals with what should sensibly be removed, then 'bleachbit' is more useful. -- STATUS QUO is Latin for "the mess we're in." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org