On Wednesday 30 Jan 2013 08:05:19 Dominique Leuenberger wrote:

In no way do I suggest to become maintainer of Mono, but we as a project should either be sticking together and 'fix that bug' or decide to do the same with the Mono stack as we did with the Mono team and sack that thing.

ISTR this situation even when the Mono team when part of SUSE, because they were content to ignore packaging it for openSUSE. Upstream GNOME seems to be doing a rip and replace on default apps based on Mono from the glory days of Mono at Novell (f-spot, Tomboy... Banshee?). Is there any interest in keeping it by SLE packagers, given that Novell was promoting it as the cross-platform platform for its customers? Otherwise, is there a good argument for our spending resources on keeping it in openSUSE? Will -- Will Stephenson, openSUSE Board, Booster, KDE Developer SUSE LINUX GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstraße 5 90409 Nürnberg Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Quoting Karl Eichwalder :

Will Stephenson writes:

...

[...] (f-spot, Tomboy... Banshee?). [...] Otherwise, is there a good argument for our spending resources on keeping it in openSUSE?

Assuming that people were actually using these tools, we must tell those user how that can access their media data without these tools.

At least 'Factory users' seem not to be keen on using them: the only app which I had bug reports about was banshee (which crashed on startup.. just like the others do) Even though f-spot (we use shotwell as default) and bareftp (many more ftp clients available) did not even start until yesterday evening.. and this situation was likely there for a few months... Dominique -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

All the @novell accounts were dead. Still there are supposed to be 15 maintainers of Mono in openSUSE... I hope to get an answer at least from cseader and/or Xamarin. On 30 January 2013 09:34, Cristian Morales Vega wrote:

Adding every single maintainer/bugowner of a Mono or Mono:* project CC (I will resend this in a few minutes once I get a list of emails not working).

The thread starts here: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2013-01/msg00537.html

On 30 January 2013 07:05, Dominique Leuenberger wrote:

...

On Sat, 2013-01-26 at 11:04 +0000, Cristian Morales Vega wrote:

...

Could somebody clarify the situation with Mono in openSUSE after Attachmate fired the entire mono team?

I can only share this sentiment...

...

First, somebody knows for sure if bnc-team-mono@forge.provo.novell.com goes somewhere other than /dev/null?

And then, given Andrew doesn't want to be the *main* maintainer of anything (https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=796901#c3). Could whoever is a real maintainer of the Mono projects clean the situation? "ajorgensen" is set as the only maintainer of a lot of packages. And what's worse, that's a dead account... Andrew now uses the user "ajorg".

There are six packages from Mono:Factory failing to build for Factory... it has been that way for more than a month and a half. If there is a lack of real maintainers (I hope there is at least one) you should publicly ask for more.

I just looked at a few mono apps yesterday (f-spot, pdfmod, bareftp) and even though they 'built' in Factory, not a single one of those was starting (they live in GNOME:Apps namespace).

Our current Mono packages in Factory / 12.3 are in a REALLY bad state (some fixes are on their way to Factory... but there are more to come).

In no way do I suggest to become maintainer of Mono, but we as a project should either be sticking together and 'fix that bug' or decide to do the same with the Mono stack as we did with the Mono team and sack that thing.

Dropping Mono of course is not just as simple as it sounds: a bunch of additional packages will have to be either adopted to build without mono or have to go with it...

(In a first round, as I'm currently busy, I'm working on fixing the apps I can find that are built with mono.. in most cases it's a mismatch between .Net 2.0 and .Net 4.0 targets being linked together.)

@Coolo: this entire 'fix exercise means you get probably a bunch of weird looking SRs these days..

Dominique

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As I need Mono on openSUSE I'm willing to help maintaining it but I'm new to openSUSE so I need your help. Tomorrow, as tonight I'm too tired to do programming tasks, I'll try to get all logs from osc and look at them. Bye Stefano PS: I suggested to use openSUSE to a customer of ours mostly because of the support of mono out of the box. Cristian Morales Vega at "Wed, 30 Jan 2013 09:34:39 +0000" wrote: CMV> Adding every single maintainer/bugowner of a Mono or Mono:* project CC CMV> (I will resend this in a few minutes once I get a list of emails not CMV> working). CMV> The thread starts here: CMV> http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2013-01/msg00537.html CMV> On 30 January 2013 07:05, Dominique Leuenberger CMV> wrote:

...

On Sat, 2013-01-26 at 11:04 +0000, Cristian Morales Vega wrote:

...

Could somebody clarify the situation with Mono in openSUSE after Attachmate fired the entire mono team?

I can only share this sentiment...

...

First, somebody knows for sure if bnc-team-mono@forge.provo.novell.com goes somewhere other than /dev/null?

And then, given Andrew doesn't want to be the *main* maintainer of anything (https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=796901#c3). Could whoever is a real maintainer of the Mono projects clean the situation? "ajorgensen" is set as the only maintainer of a lot of packages. And what's worse, that's a dead account... Andrew now uses the user "ajorg".

There are six packages from Mono:Factory failing to build for Factory... it has been that way for more than a month and a half. If there is a lack of real maintainers (I hope there is at least one) you should publicly ask for more.

I just looked at a few mono apps yesterday (f-spot, pdfmod, bareftp) and even though they 'built' in Factory, not a single one of those was starting (they live in GNOME:Apps namespace).

Our current Mono packages in Factory / 12.3 are in a REALLY bad state (some fixes are on their way to Factory... but there are more to come).

In no way do I suggest to become maintainer of Mono, but we as a project should either be sticking together and 'fix that bug' or decide to do the same with the Mono stack as we did with the Mono team and sack that thing.

Dropping Mono of course is not just as simple as it sounds: a bunch of additional packages will have to be either adopted to build without mono or have to go with it...

(In a first round, as I'm currently busy, I'm working on fixing the apps I can find that are built with mono.. in most cases it's a mismatch between .Net 2.0 and .Net 4.0 targets being linked together.)

@Coolo: this entire 'fix exercise means you get probably a bunch of weird looking SRs these days..

Dominique

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-- Stefano Canepa aka sc: sc@linux.it - http://www.stefanocanepa.it Three great virtues of a programmer: laziness, impatience and hubris. Le tre grandi virtù di un programmatore: pigrizia, impazienza e arroganza. (Larry Wall) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Quoting Alan :

Or you could simply get in touch with the team, as you've just done. There's no need to start suggesting such drastic measures in the very first email people get.

Alan, thank you for your message... it's motivating to see somebody being 'alive' when it comes to mono.

I no longer use opensuse so I would not be the right person for the job. However if there is a maintainer I will give them whatever help/advice they need to fix issues they encounter. Secondly, what are the issues you've been encountering? As far as I am aware, we (Xamarin) still build RPMs for openSUSE and also maintain the spec files. Everything should Just Work (TM) for mono itself, if it does not it is definitely something we will want to fix. If you can point me towards cases where mono itself cannot be compiled in full I will do my best to get it sorted within the next week.

Your description seems to match around all of the addresses of that mail: nobody cares for / uses openSUSE of the mono crew. As such, the few packages depending on mono are questionable to be worthy top be maintained. Mono itself works... it was even upgraded to Mono 3.0.x.. which, in fact, causes a bunch of 'hidden' problems. Seems nobody noted that half of the packages were build against sdk 4, while the other half wa built for sdk 2... needless to say: apps don't like that... and most refused to start. This was until about a week ago where this thread started and I fixed countless packages (to at least start.. no Idea if the apps work). Some were simply dropped by now, like mono-tools: the latest release is still 2.10.x, which does not build.. not even the git master branch builds with mono 3.. so obviously, a useless 'tool set'

If you are having issues with third party applications (anything based on mono, but not mono itself) I'm not sure who'd be the best one to maintain that. Probably not Xamarin.

Most of those 3rd parties had simple fixes, by specifying -sdk:4 as parameter to gmcs... the only 'bug' I can note, as such, is that the man page of gmcs says sdk:4 is the default... obviously not, if specifying it fixes the issues. Best regards, Dominique -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org