On Thursday, May 26, 2011 13:05:36 Detlef Steuer wrote:

Sorry for the rant that follows, but something seems terribly wrong at the moment with the processes we as hobby packagers have to follow.

I really, really, really get frustrated over the time sr takes.

Now my sr for r-base, a package that made it into 11.4 and now had an upstream update, lasts for 20 days after I changed the licences string to gplv2+. Before I had one or two further tries to get the same new upstream version into 12.1., which went faster but ended in rejections.

Detlef, what is the number? Let's look at the request itself and see why it took so long...

On irc I was told today "shouldn't take too much longer". Fantatstic.

If this continues I see r-base out of 12.1 again. The time differences between milestones are smaller than the time it takes for a single sr?! How is this supposed to work?!

Indeed, this shouldn't be the case.

Hej guys, I do this as a real community service. No money involved on my side, just my time. I do it _just_ _for_ _fun_ and the fun of a few thousand people around the world who use the binaries instead of compiling themselves.

But after building R for all the suse versions since 2001 I never felt nearly as frustrated. For now the fun factor has gone.

I'm really sorry to see this. We're changing tools and it seems that the new process is not good enough yet ;-(

I can go to irc and get some help, all people there are nice and helpful, especially coolo and darix (thx for all the help!), but in the end I have to stare on review licencedigger for 20 days. :-(

A second sr (rkward) is in this state for a week now. The next upstream release coming along in a few days. This is not what collaborating should feel. Indeed it doesn't feel like collaborating for me anymore. More like begging.

How am I supposed to work with turnaround times measured in _weeks_?! Where is documentation I can read and that doesn't constantly change or at least reliably informs me over any changes? Now I try my best, but it always remains trial and error, afterwards some googling or chatting to find out what that "reject" means. Correct some minor changes, next try.

Jürgen, what are your plans to improve this?

I understand the need for a legal review, I understand the need for quality control. But if the queues get longer and longer some process has broken down.

Thank you for listening.

Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Program Manager openSUSE aj@{novell.com,suse.com,opensuse.org} Twitter/Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Am 26.05.2011 13:13, schrieb Ciaran Farrell:

On Thursday 26 May 2011 13:05:36 Detlef Steuer wrote:

...

I understand the need for a legal review, I understand the need for quality

...

control. But if the queues get longer and longer some process has broken

...

down.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=694608

Quoting a bug w/o explanation given the bug is access restricted is not very helpful :-( Anyway I'm also waiting for a patchlevel security update to get integrated into Factory (they are long released as maintenance update for older versions). That looks funny but isn't. sr#68988 Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Thursday 26 May 2011, Stephan Kulow wrote:

So we have: [...] Milestone 2. 22.6. (23rd is a public holiday in Germany)

Correction: in parts of Germany. To be precise, in Baden-Württemberg, Bavaria, Hesse, North Rhine-Westphalia, Rhineland-Palatinate, Saarland and some communities with a Catholic majority in Saxony and Thuringia. Just saying. Regards Sven -- This email is best viewed in text mode using a monospaced font. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Am Donnerstag, 26. Mai 2011 schrieb Sven Zallmann:

On Thursday 26 May 2011, Stephan Kulow wrote:

...

So we have: [...] Milestone 2. 22.6. (23rd is a public holiday in Germany)

Correction: in parts of Germany. To be precise, in Baden-Württemberg, Bavaria, Hesse, North Rhine-Westphalia, Rhineland-Palatinate, Saarland and some communities with a Catholic majority in Saxony and Thuringia.

Ah, good to know - doesn't change a thing though: it's public holiday for my Kindergarten ;) Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Am Donnerstag, 26. Mai 2011 schrieb Wolfgang Rosenauer:

Am 26.05.2011 13:13, schrieb Ciaran Farrell:

...

On Thursday 26 May 2011 13:05:36 Detlef Steuer wrote:

...

I understand the need for a legal review, I understand the need for

quality

...

control. But if the queues get longer and longer some process has broken

down.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=694608

Quoting a bug w/o explanation given the bug is access restricted is not very helpful :-(

True, but the bug is assigned to Detlef since 18th and so he should be able to read. The bug is: "Please check if R uses rpart. If so, is it possible to use R without rpart? Can we build R without it?" I guess what would have been fair at this point is rejecting the SR and reopen it once the bug is clarified. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

-------- Original-Nachricht --------

Datum: Thu, 26 May 2011 15:07:10 +0200 Von: Stephan Kulow An: opensuse-factory@opensuse.org Betreff: Re: [opensuse-factory] We\'re nearing Milestone 1

Am Donnerstag, 26. Mai 2011 schrieb Wolfgang Rosenauer:

...

Am 26.05.2011 13:13, schrieb Ciaran Farrell:

...

On Thursday 26 May 2011 13:05:36 Detlef Steuer wrote:

...

I understand the need for a legal review, I understand the need for

quality

...

control. But if the queues get longer and longer some process has broken

down.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=694608

Quoting a bug w/o explanation given the bug is access restricted is not very helpful :-(

True, but the bug is assigned to Detlef since 18th and so he should be able to read.

I did. And I tried to discuss with jw@novell.com, named as QA responsible for that. I admit, not using bugzilla but in e-mail. But I guess that is what the e-mail adresses are given for? And got _no_ response. Priority was none, sr was not rejected, so I thougth the report was not critical for that request. But questions were left unanswered. Detlef

The bug is:

"Please check if R uses rpart. If so, is it possible to use R without rpart? Can we build R without it?"

I guess what would have been fair at this point is rejecting the SR and reopen it once the bug is clarified.

Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

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On May 26, 11 13:11:17 +0200, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

...

I can go to irc and get some help, all people there are nice and helpful, especially coolo and darix (thx for all the help!), but in the end I have to stare on review licencedigger for 20 days. :-(

Please ask coolo to assign a non-zero priority to your packages. cheers, JW- -- o \ Juergen Weigert paint it green! __/ _=======.=======_ <V> | jw@suse.de back to ascii! __/ _---|____________\/ \ | 0911 74053-508 __/ (____/ /\ (/) | _____________________________/ _/ \_ vim:set sw=2 wm=8 SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, J.Guild, F.Immendoerffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg), Maxfeldstrasse 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany SuSE. Supporting Linux since 1992. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Am Donnerstag, 26. Mai 2011 schrieb Andreas Jaeger:

On Thursday, May 26, 2011 10:14:29 Stephan Kulow wrote:

...

Hi,

I just changed the release from Milestone 0 to Milestone 1, so one of the next builds could be released as Milestone 1. For a month we didn't have live cds because too much was broken, but last night we saw working DVDs (openqa sees tons of problems in installation, but my own tests worked) and live cds.

The GNOME one "fails to load GNOME3", but I played (and won of course :) a round of freecell solitaire as Live-CD User, so I'd say it's good enough for a Milestone 1 ;-)

It would be great if we saw some more factory testing now - and perhaps we even see a KDE networkmanager for next week, but I would release M1 without, NetworkManager-gnome fits on the KDE Live CD as temporary aid, so much I tested already.

I would take some more packages today and tomorrow and then release what has finished building on monday - and move Milestone 2 a week later.

So we have: Milestone 1: 2.6.

2.6. is also public holiday in Germany - so really release on the 2nd?

hmm, my message and the date were conflicting. I meant to release on tuesday - 31.5 Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Am Thu, 26 May 2011 10:14:29 +0200 schrieb Stephan Kulow :

It would be great if we saw some more factory testing now - and perhaps we even see a KDE networkmanager for next week, but I would release M1 without, NetworkManager-gnome fits on the KDE Live CD as temporary aid,

Which one? 0.8.2 or 0.8.999 which never connects to anything but cable, and always fails like seife@susi:/space/iso/openSUSE> nm-applet ** Message: applet now removed from the notification area ** Message: applet now embedded in the notification area ** (nm-applet:21419): WARNING **: Failed to add/activate connection: (32) Insufficient privileges. ** (nm-applet:21419): WARNING **: Failed to add/activate connection: (32) Insufficient privileges. ^C** Message: Caught signal 2, shutting down... ...not really good if neither WiFi nor 3G works... Or is nm-applet supposed to be run as root? -- Stefan Seyfried "Dispatch war rocket Ajax to bring back his body!" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On May 26, 11 19:46:30 +0200, Stefan Seyfried wrote:

Feel the facts: nobody cares for FACTORY.

Are you trying to be sarcastic?

The perl update for example. Rebuild the packages that depend on perl?

Is there a technical issue? I'd expect that nobody needs to triger rebuilds in that case, they should come automatically. If not, bug reports, bug reports, bug reports ... cheers, JW- -- o \ Juergen Weigert paint it green! __/ _=======.=======_ <V> | jw@suse.de back to ascii! __/ _---|____________\/ \ | 0911 74053-508 __/ (____/ /\ (/) | _____________________________/ _/ \_ vim:set sw=2 wm=8 SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, J.Guild, F.Immendoerffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg), Maxfeldstrasse 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany SuSE. Supporting Linux since 1992. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 05/26/2011 01:46 PM, Stefan Seyfried wrote:

Am Thu, 26 May 2011 13:40:31 +0200 schrieb Wolfgang Rosenauer :

...

Anyway I'm also waiting for a patchlevel security update to get integrated into Factory (they are long released as maintenance update for older versions). That looks funny but isn't.

Well, that's almost the same as FACTORY having a kernel from the last ice age. Even tumbleweed has a newer one.

Feel the facts: nobody cares for FACTORY.

This is because Greg pushed it for Tumbleweed first. This was possible because Tumbleweed is using gcc 4.5 and Factory is using gcc 4.6, and the kernel was failing to build on gcc 4.6. It caught up quickly and I submitted it as soon as it built. - -Jeff

The perl update for example. Rebuild the packages that depend on perl? Dream on!

- -- Jeff Mahoney SUSE Labs -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk3emJAACgkQLPWxlyuTD7JtQQCfVKFqbbqVYeiDiVtlEK0dN3mS eRIAn1ZFbb9ZRrXYswTUEJI9xYlWxyhq =PM6t -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Am Thu, 26 May 2011 19:53:31 +0200 schrieb Juergen Weigert :

On May 26, 11 19:46:30 +0200, Stefan Seyfried wrote:

...

Feel the facts: nobody cares for FACTORY.

Are you trying to be sarcastic?

No, realistic. Seeing how FACTORY is broken for a long time now (no kernel updates, NetworkManager not being able to be installed (because gnome-main-menu ist not obsoleted) and if installed not being able to connect to anything. Permissions (due to missing kernel update) breaking all formerly SUID binaries, so no working ping for non-root users. GDM not working. All reported. None fixed. For a long time now. Conclusion: nobody cares. Maybe Tumbleweed, where someone cares is better if you want to run latest and greatest. But we have a new gcc. (I like the new gcc, but having usable networking would have been more useful. In fact I hoped the mass rebuild due to gcc would fix some stuff by accident. Unfortunately it didn't.)

...

The perl update for example. Rebuild the packages that depend on perl?

Is there a technical issue? I'd expect that nobody needs to triger rebuilds in that case, they should come automatically. If not, bug reports, bug reports, bug reports ...

696385 -- Stefan Seyfried "Dispatch war rocket Ajax to bring back his body!" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Le jeudi 26 mai 2011, à 20:20 +0200, Stefan Seyfried a écrit :

Am Thu, 26 May 2011 20:12:04 +0200 schrieb Ismail Doenmez :

...

We have been fixing Perl 5.14 compatibility for days, what is exactly wrong here?

claws-mail-extra-plugins is not rebuilt against it. Bug 696385.

Without even looking, my bet would be that it just fails to build for another reason (which might be fixed in a submission, Dominique is rocking hard there). So you could likely blame the GNOME team instead. Or we could be more positive as a community, and not play the blame game :-) Cheers, Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 05/26/2011 08:18 PM, jdd wrote:

Stephan Kulow:

...

...

It would be great if we saw some more factory testing now

That's sure. So we have small steps to do.

right now we have no booting support (at least before milestone), or at least the last cd/dvd I tested didn't boot.

So I install factory from previous install.

It works very well simply starting from 11.4, changing repos and zypper up, and wait..

It don't work from 11.3. I just tried to zypper dup a very loaded 11.3 and got thousands of dependecy conflicts, so I stopped. upgrading with 11.4 works well, and I'm now upgrading from 11.4 to factory and this seems to go well.

*But*

When one try to install factory, he get a tremendous message "*don't do that, you wont have any support" (I didn't read more). This is plain wrong.

it's difficult enough to get factory setup not to think it's a mistake, and we have to give *as much support as possible*

The message should something like:

"This is Factory, the future openSUSE version, not the stable present one. If you know this, thank for your help in testing openSUSE Factory. It's extremely important for us to have this version widely tested and we are going to help you as much as possible, but of course don't expect Factory to work as bugfree as the stable version"

then the message should direct the user to the testing list and bugzilla.

I'm very impressed to see factory working so early in the agenda.

I only have a problem: don't find any packman, so nearly no multimedia package

thanks jdd

Jdd you should really open a bug to change the text you mention in factory by yours, This one is really good. Jumping from a 11.3 to factory works, it just depends of the number of repositories you have, more they are exotic more you have deps hell. If you test that last week, forget, even factory to factory was the biggest hell deps seen from a long time with all the gcc46 trouble. It's becoming more usable actually -- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch openSUSE Member & Ambassador GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Le 26/05/2011 22:35, jdd a écrit :

...

Jdd you should really open a bug to change the text you mention in factory by yours, This one is really good.

ok, I will

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=696425 jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.youtube.com/user/jdddodinorg http://jdd.blip.tv/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Am Donnerstag, 26. Mai 2011 schrieb Stefan Seyfried:

Am Thu, 26 May 2011 13:40:31 +0200

schrieb Wolfgang Rosenauer :

...

Anyway I'm also waiting for a patchlevel security update to get integrated into Factory (they are long released as maintenance update for older versions). That looks funny but isn't.

Well, that's almost the same as FACTORY having a kernel from the last ice age. Even tumbleweed has a newer one. Not true since yesterday.

Feel the facts: nobody cares for FACTORY.

The perl update for example. Rebuild the packages that depend on perl? Dream on! Seife, I think you have an urgent need, but I don't think it's package rebuilds.

Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org