[opensuse-factory] Some thought's on standard openSUSE patterns.
I know it's a bit too late for the upcoming leap release, nevertheless... First: The standard installation with KDE as default desktop leads to a mixture of old and new software. - Why do openSUSE still uses Apper as package manager. Apper is discontinued by upstream development. - Why ist KDEPIM4 the default while KDEPIM5 is in the repos. - Kleopatra is ported to KF5 while KGPG not. Why not deliver Kleopatra by default? - KDE Plasma 5 has an integrated audio-applet (plasma-pa). Why openSUSE has KMix also pre-installed? - openSUSE prefers the unmaintained Kopete. Why not the up to date KDE- Telepathy? - IceWM? Realy? Secondery: OpenSUSE delivers a very bloated standard installation. The question which audience openSUSE Leap has. - Do the Users need android-tools by default? - Do they need a semi-professional photo-suite like digikam? Gwenview should cover most needs. - How many users are really need a professional image editing tool like GIMP? - Why should KDE-Users need GNOME-Tools like gnomeonlineaccounts or system- config-printer? - Why do openSUSE install by default a bunch of lib32-Packages on an 64bit system? - Do normal users need an mailserver like postfix? P.S. Sorry for my bad English. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Gerrit Kruse wrote:
Secondery: OpenSUSE delivers a very bloated standard installation. The question which audience openSUSE Leap has.
- Do the Users need android-tools by default? - Do they need a semi-professional photo-suite like digikam? Gwenview should cover most needs. - How many users are really need a professional image editing tool like GIMP?
I would be very much stuck without GIMP - I'm sure I use it every week, maybe not every day.
- Why should KDE-Users need GNOME-Tools like gnomeonlineaccounts or system- config-printer? - Why do openSUSE install by default a bunch of lib32-Packages on an 64bit system? - Do normal users need an mailserver like postfix?
There are many tools that use sendmail to send emails to root or elsewhere. cron, mdadm, smartd are the ones that immediately come to mind. (sendmail is provided by postfix). -- Per Jessen, Zürich (11.1°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am Montag, 26. Oktober 2015, 11:39:17 schrieb Per Jessen:
- How many users are really need a professional image editing tool like GIMP?
I would be very much stuck without GIMP - I'm sure I use it every week, maybe not every day.
Yes, but pre-installed? Every peace of software in the repos is needed by anyone. I know, GIMP is pre-installed in openSUSE since decades... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
I like also GIMP and I believe that it is a software that has to stay as it is
I prefer more multimedia codec/tools to be installed.
On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 12:50 PM, Gerrit Kruse
Am Montag, 26. Oktober 2015, 11:39:17 schrieb Per Jessen:
- How many users are really need a professional image editing tool like GIMP?
I would be very much stuck without GIMP - I'm sure I use it every week, maybe not every day.
Yes, but pre-installed? Every peace of software in the repos is needed by anyone. I know, GIMP is pre-installed in openSUSE since decades... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Gerrit Kruse wrote:
Am Montag, 26. Oktober 2015, 11:39:17 schrieb Per Jessen:
- How many users are really need a professional image editing tool like GIMP?
I would be very much stuck without GIMP - I'm sure I use it every week, maybe not every day.
Yes, but pre-installed? Every peace of software in the repos is needed by anyone. I know, GIMP is pre-installed in openSUSE since decades...
I think the default pattern should come with as many default packages as is reasonable. Office, samba, graphics, multimedia, scanner, games - everything that one might use as a normal user. I guess we still have the limitation of "how much to fit on a DVD". -- Per Jessen, Zürich (11.6°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am Montag, 26. Oktober 2015, 12:08:20 schrieb Per Jessen:
Gerrit Kruse wrote:
Am Montag, 26. Oktober 2015, 11:39:17 schrieb Per Jessen:
- How many users are really need a professional image editing tool like GIMP?
I would be very much stuck without GIMP - I'm sure I use it every week, maybe not every day.
Yes, but pre-installed? Every peace of software in the repos is needed by anyone. I know, GIMP is pre-installed in openSUSE since decades...
I think the default pattern should come with as many default packages as is reasonable. Office, samba, graphics, multimedia, scanner, games - everything that one might use as a normal user. I guess we still have the limitation of "how much to fit on a DVD".
Ok, then we simply have a different approach. I think too many pre-installed programs confuse most users. Especially if they overlap in funcions like diigkam and gwenview or plasma-pa and kmix. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Hi, Am Montag, 26. Oktober 2015, 12:16:54 schrieb Gerrit Kruse:
Am Montag, 26. Oktober 2015, 12:08:20 schrieb Per Jessen:
Ok, then we simply have a different approach. I think too many pre-installed programs confuse most users. Especially if they overlap in funcions like diigkam and gwenview or plasma-pa and kmix.
As a normal user, I don't like it to install many programs/tools, after a new installation of openSUSE. I want to install it, and be happy. I don't care if there are some programs, I never use. But I care if I miss some programs. Yust my two cents ... Greetings, Stefan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 26/10/15 12:16, Gerrit Kruse wrote:
Ok, then we simply have a different approach. I think too many pre-installed programs confuse most users. Especially if they overlap in funcions like diigkam and gwenview or plasma-pa and kmix.
Digikam and Gwenview don't overlap. The former is a full-featured photo management app, for organizing albums, applying effects, analyzing technical image specs, etc. Gwenview is a more simple viewer application for browsing photos and doing basic organization. They complement each other. I use Gwenview all the time but only launch Digikam every couple of months. More generally, I know there's been a trend in recent years for many other distros to trim their software selection and propose a more lean install, and whilst I'm not advocating an everything-but-the-kitchen-sink approach, openSUSE has generally been more about giving the user choice. There's other ways to slim down an openSUSE install, using SUSE Studio for example, or picking one of the live CDs to install from, although that has become less recommended of late. I rather like the full selection of default apps which I've always had with openSUSE. I use KDE but I most definitely want GIMP, LibreOffice and Firefox, as opposed to being constrained to Kolorpaint, Calligra and ReKonq. Not that any of those latter apps are bad, they're great, but I want them all. In one sense, that 'something for everyone' is actually a differentiating factor with openSUSE. Just about every other distro is trying to go the other way, that doesn't mean SUSE has to as well, especially if that flies in the face of what it has always stood for. If people want a lean distro with a refined default software selection and the afore-mentioned Studio or Live images are no good, there's always 600 other distros to choose from. Just my two cents, five pence, twenty centimes and three grozys... always good to have options. gumb -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/26/2015 11:21 AM, Gerrit Kruse wrote:
- IceWM? Realy?
I don't use exactly that one but I like the choice to have another $WINDOWMANAGER than the big ones running, though it's debatable whether one or the other is pre-installed. I'm using 'openbox' everywhere. ;-) Have a nice day, Berny -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Hi. El Lunes, 26 de octubre de 2015 11:21:23 Gerrit Kruse escribió:
I know it's a bit too late for the upcoming leap release, nevertheless...
First: The standard installation with KDE as default desktop leads to a mixture of old and new software.
- Why do openSUSE still uses Apper as package manager. Apper is discontinued by upstream development. - Why ist KDEPIM4 the default while KDEPIM5 is in the repos. - Kleopatra is ported to KF5 while KGPG not. Why not deliver Kleopatra by default? - KDE Plasma 5 has an integrated audio-applet (plasma-pa). Why openSUSE has KMix also pre-installed?
I was told that audio-applet only works with PulseAudio. I use ALSA but I could install KMix by myself.
- openSUSE prefers the unmaintained Kopete. Why not the up to date KDE- Telepathy? - IceWM? Realy?
I think so because I know how to manage software, but we also have to think on the new users coming to GNU/Linux from others OS. Install/uninstall software is a bit confusing at the beginning. In addition it's a plus for many users that like having the software installed just in case...
Secondery: OpenSUSE delivers a very bloated standard installation. The question which audience openSUSE Leap has.
- Do the Users need android-tools by default? - Do they need a semi-professional photo-suite like digikam? Gwenview should cover most needs. - How many users are really need a professional image editing tool like GIMP? - Why should KDE-Users need GNOME-Tools like gnomeonlineaccounts or system- config-printer?
I think that GTK programs installed (GIMP, Firefox, ...) add them as dependencies.
- Why do openSUSE install by default a bunch of lib32-Packages on an 64bit system?
I wonder this too. I figure there are 32 bits applications shipped with the DVD that needs them. I always perform custom installations and remove all the 32 bits packages without any issue. WINE is the only program I seldom use that triggers 32 bits packages installation.
- Do normal users need an mailserver like postfix?
P.S. Sorry for my bad English.
People shouldn't apologize for not knowing a foreign language but be thankful for trying to do so. My English is bad too but and I have no problems with it, I just try to improve my knowledge of the language. :) Greetings. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Il Mon, 26 Oct 2015 11:21:23 +0100, Gerrit Kruse ha scritto: Hello,
- Why ist KDEPIM4 the default while KDEPIM5 is in the repos.
Because upstream labeled it as "technology preview". I'm a user of KF5 PIM since a while, but we wanted to wait till at least 15.12 to reduce the risk of regressions (same philosophy as the P5 switch).
- Kleopatra is ported to KF5 while KGPG not. Why not deliver Kleopatra by default?
KGPG has a better interface than Kleopatra at the moment (but Kleopatra will get many changes in the upcoming months / years).
- KDE Plasma 5 has an integrated audio-applet (plasma-pa). Why openSUSE has KMix also pre-installed?
IIRC, patterns have been adjusted already.
- openSUSE prefers the unmaintained Kopete. Why not the up to date KDE- Telepathy?
I'm a KTP user, but KTP sometimes can still be flaky.
- IceWM? Realy?
What if you can't get into a Plasma 5 session for whatever reason? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday 26 October 2015 11:21:23 Gerrit Kruse wrote:
Secondery: OpenSUSE delivers a very bloated standard installation. The question which audience openSUSE Leap has.
- Do the Users need android-tools by default?
This package contains udev rules for mtp access. But we can split this file to separate android-udev package. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 03:52:55PM +0300, Dmitry Roshchin wrote:
On Monday 26 October 2015 11:21:23 Gerrit Kruse wrote:
Secondery: OpenSUSE delivers a very bloated standard installation. The question which audience openSUSE Leap has.
- Do the Users need android-tools by default?
This package contains udev rules for mtp access. But we can split this file to separate android-udev package.
The udev rules for mtp access are actually in libmtp9. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-10-26 11:21, Gerrit Kruse wrote:
- IceWM? Realy?
I believe it is there for emergencies, for fail-over. When the main desktop breaks completely. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlYuypIACgkQja8UbcUWM1zfdwD/SEPYM+PMrh568NEQ/7c0yaYr lXYmjiAkS5YIipbjaQwA/3CNxBMaHbZd9f2sgzZRMOe6BAfxKqrtgC30O/2HYZNx =Z6eo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
participants (11)
-
Alexandros_ Alexandros -
Bernhard Voelker -
Carlos E. R. -
Dmitry Roshchin -
Gerrit Kruse -
gumb -
jcsl -
Luca Beltrame -
Marcus Meissner -
Per Jessen -
Stefan Zimmer