[opensuse-factory] YaST/zypp dependancy handling question
With 11.0alpha1, I tried (for the first time since that infamous SUSE-release with ZMD ;) to use the yast Package management. I'm simply sick of "smart". However, I don't really get how zypp does the dependancy checks: It always seems to pull in way too many other packages for no obvious reasons in every update. Many of this unwanted packages can be uninstalled afterwards with Yast - seemingly without any dependancy problem, so the question is: Why were they forcibly installed in the first place?? E.g. "doc"-Packages: Yast always insists on installing e.g. kdelibs3-doc, PolicyKit-doc, readline-doc and so on. (For PolicyKit-doc, I yesterday even caught Yast installing a *.i586.rpm-package on my 64bit-system without any kind of warning, something I really dislike, because I had some nasty system failures when 32bit (binary) packages were mistakenly installed by the package management system in former times.) Yast also insists on installing a full 32bit KDE3 subsystem on my 64bit system (with all the dozens of other necessary 32bit libs), although no 32bit KDE app at all is installed. OpenOffice: I prefer a lean installation with only some parts of it, but Yast forrces me to do a pretty full install with every update (all templates, additional english language and so on). I could go on with many more examples. My question is: Am I getting something completely wrong here, or is this intended behaviour of Yast? Is this, because certain patternss are active - and if yes, how do I get rid of them? Because, what good is it to have fine-grained packages if the dependancy check pulls everything nevertheless ;) ? BTW: Is there a way of getting rid of the "bundle-language"-meta-Packages to only install the needed rpms? Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Donnerstag, 7. Februar 2008 schrieb Alex:
Why were they forcibly installed in the first place??
Because they are "recommended" packages and our alpha1 solver likes to make your system complete. As workaround edit /etc/zypp/locks and put all packages in there you don't want to see.
E.g. "doc"-Packages: Yast always insists on installing e.g. kdelibs3-doc, PolicyKit-doc, readline-doc and so on. (For PolicyKit-doc, I yesterday even caught Yast installing a *.i586.rpm-package on my 64bit-system without any kind of warning, something I really dislike, because I had some nasty system failures when 32bit (binary) packages were mistakenly installed by the package management system in former times.)
As said in the Alpha1 release announcement: please create test cases whenever you see something strange with package management. i586 packages on 64bit _is_ such a strange case.
Yast also insists on installing a full 32bit KDE3 subsystem on my 64bit system (with all the dozens of other necessary 32bit libs), although no 32bit KDE app at all is installed.
There is kdebase3-nsplugin which provides you access to 32bit flash-player and it's installed by default and pulls in many 32bit dependencies.
OpenOffice: I prefer a lean installation with only some parts of it, but Yast forrces me to do a pretty full install with every update (all templates, additional english language and so on).
I could go on with many more examples. My question is: Am I getting something completely wrong here, or is this intended behaviour of Yast? Is this, because certain patternss are active - and if yes, how do I get rid of them? Because, what good is it to have fine-grained packages if the dependancy check pulls everything nevertheless ;) ?
We're still lacking a way to make decisions about packages persistent, this is something to be worked on for 11.0 - for now it's a intended behaviour and you can workaround it with /etc/zypp/locks
BTW: Is there a way of getting rid of the "bundle-language"-meta-Packages to only install the needed rpms?
the needed rpms will be larger than the bundles, but you can easily zypper in bundle-lang-other zypper remove bundle-lang-kde-<$LANG> bundle-lang-common-<$LANG> See for example my system: The following NEW packages are going to be installed: amarok-lang avahi-lang beagle-lang digikam-lang gwenview-lang k3b-lang kdebase3-SuSE-lang kdebluetooth-lang kdetv-lang kerry-lang kipi-plugins-lang konversation-lang kpowersave-lang libkipi0-lang libwnck-lang notification-daemon-lang The following packages are going to be REMOVED: bundle-lang-common-de bundle-lang-gnome-de bundle-lang-kde-de Overall download size: 33.7 M. After the operation, additional 60.2 M will be used. Continue? [yes/no]: So you can install "only needed rpms", but they are actually 60M larger Greetings, Stephan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, 7 Feb 2008, Stephan Kulow wrote:
Am Donnerstag, 7. Februar 2008 schrieb Alex:
Why were they forcibly installed in the first place??
Because they are "recommended" packages and our alpha1 solver likes to make your system complete. As workaround edit /etc/zypp/locks and put all packages in there you don't want to see.
It would be nice to have a global config to enable/disable automatic install of recommended packages. Richard. -- Richard Guenther <rguenther@suse.de> Novell / SUSE Labs SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nuernberg - AG Nuernberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
* Richard Guenther <rguenther@suse.de> [Feb 07. 2008 10:43]:
It would be nice to have a global config to enable/disable automatic install of recommended packages.
This will be implemented in openSUSE 11.0 Klaus --- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, 7 Feb 2008, Klaus Kaempf wrote:
It would be nice to have a global config to enable/disable automatic install of recommended packages. This will be implemented in openSUSE 11.0
Great! Do you have a FATE # for that? Gerald -- Dr. Gerald Pfeifer E gp@novell.com SUSE Linux Products GmbH Director Inbound Product Mgmt T +49(911)74053-0 HRB 16746 (AG Nuremberg) openSUSE/SUSE Linux Enterprise F +49(911)74053-483 GF: Markus Rex --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
* Gerald Pfeifer <gp@novell.com> [Feb 07. 2008 16:31]:
On Thu, 7 Feb 2008, Klaus Kaempf wrote:
It would be nice to have a global config to enable/disable automatic install of recommended packages. This will be implemented in openSUSE 11.0
Great! Do you have a FATE # for that?
Not for this specific item, but #300707: Make dependency solver behaviour configurable should be general enough to cover it ;-) Klaus --- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Donnerstag 07 Februar 2008 schrieb Richard Guenther:
On Thu, 7 Feb 2008, Stephan Kulow wrote:
Am Donnerstag, 7. Februar 2008 schrieb Alex:
Why were they forcibly installed in the first place??
Because they are "recommended" packages and our alpha1 solver likes to make your system complete. As workaround edit /etc/zypp/locks and put all packages in there you don't want to see.
It would be nice to have a global config to enable/disable automatic install of recommended packages.
Yeah, or a global config to speed up C++ compilation by factor 100 :) Greetings, Stephan -- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Richard Guenther wrote:
On Thu, 7 Feb 2008, Stephan Kulow wrote:
Am Donnerstag, 7. Februar 2008 schrieb Alex:
Why were they forcibly installed in the first place?? Because they are "recommended" packages and our alpha1 solver likes to make your system complete. As workaround edit /etc/zypp/locks and put all packages in there you don't want to see.
It would be nice to have a global config to enable/disable automatic install of recommended packages.
Absolutely. I also miss a commandline parameter to switch. zypper has no option at all to handle that while with YaST you can at least remove the packages from the automatic selection when they are just "recommended". Wolfgang --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
2008/2/7, Stephan Kulow <coolo@novell.com>:
Am Donnerstag, 7. Februar 2008 schrieb Alex:
Why were they forcibly installed in the first place??
Because they are "recommended" packages and our alpha1 solver likes to make your system complete. As workaround edit /etc/zypp/locks and put all packages in there you don't want to see.
E.g. "doc"-Packages: Yast always insists on installing e.g. kdelibs3-doc, PolicyKit-doc, readline-doc and so on. (For PolicyKit-doc, I yesterday even caught Yast installing a *.i586.rpm-package on my 64bit-system without any kind of warning, something I really dislike, because I had some nasty system failures when 32bit (binary) packages were mistakenly installed by the package management system in former times.)
As said in the Alpha1 release announcement: please create test cases whenever you see something strange with package management. i586 packages on 64bit _is_ such a strange case.
Yast also insists on installing a full 32bit KDE3 subsystem on my 64bit system (with all the dozens of other necessary 32bit libs), although no 32bit KDE app at all is installed.
There is kdebase3-nsplugin which provides you access to 32bit flash-player and it's installed by default and pulls in many 32bit dependencies. Since (10.1?) KDE OBS repository has a package "kdebase3-nsplugin64" that isn't available in the official repository. I'm using it and all the plugins work correctly on Konqueror, both 64bit plugins and 32bit flash. Someone can explain it?
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Am Donnerstag 07 Februar 2008 schrieb Christian Morales Vega:
Since (10.1?) KDE OBS repository has a package "kdebase3-nsplugin64" that isn't available in the official repository. I'm using it and all the plugins work correctly on Konqueror, both 64bit plugins and 32bit flash. Someone can explain it?
I'm seriously astonished. I just tried it and you're right. It works here too. Greetings, Stephan -- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 07/02/2008, Christian Morales Vega <cmorve69@yahoo.es> wrote:
Yast also insists on installing a full 32bit KDE3 subsystem on my 64bit system (with all the dozens of other necessary 32bit libs), although no 32bit KDE app at all is installed. There is kdebase3-nsplugin which provides you access to 32bit flash-player and it's installed by default and pulls in many 32bit dependencies. Since (10.1?) KDE OBS repository has a package "kdebase3-nsplugin64" that isn't available in the official repository. I'm using it and all the plugins work correctly on Konqueror, both 64bit plugins and 32bit flash. Someone can explain it?
Possibly using the nspluginwrapper nsplugin in nspluginviewer. nspluginwrapper allows loading both 64 and 32bit plugins I believe, and should work with firefox, although suse packages only seem to work with konqueror. This seems to be the only way to get flash to work in konqueror in KDE4 too. I've found it less reliable than using the 32bit flash plugin directly with 32bit nspluginviewer though. -- Benjamin Weber --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Donnerstag, 7. Februar 2008 schrieb Stephan Kulow: > Because they are "recommended" packages and our alpha1 solver likes > to make your system complete. As workaround edit /etc/zypp/locks and > put all packages in there you don't want to see. OK, thanks for the clarification. However, wouldn't it be more appropriate for an alpha version to make the default the other way round and leave it to the (presumably experienced tester ;) whether he wants to install recommendations or not? > We're still lacking a way to make decisions about packages persistent, this > is something to be worked on for 11.0 - for now it's a intended behaviour > and you can workaround it with /etc/zypp/locks Will 11.0 also have some kind of filter "show only packages for which updates are available" - this would be great for doing controlled factory updates from time to time? > > BTW: Is there a way of getting rid of the "bundle-language"-meta-Packages > > to only install the needed rpms? > the needed rpms will be larger than the bundles, OK, I herewith withdraw my question ;) ... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, 7 Feb 2008, Alex wrote:
However, wouldn't it be more appropriate for an alpha version to make the default the other way round and leave it to the (presumably experienced tester ;) whether he wants to install recommendations or not?
I don't think we should make Alphas different in behavior from the Betas/Releases, but rather address any issues of configurability that come up for real -- as the YaST team is doing in this case. ;-) Gerald -- Dr. Gerald Pfeifer E gp@novell.com SUSE Linux Products GmbH Director Inbound Product Mgmt T +49(911)74053-0 HRB 16746 (AG Nuremberg) openSUSE/SUSE Linux Enterprise F +49(911)74053-483 GF: Markus Rex
participants (8)
-
Alex -
Benji Weber -
Christian Morales Vega -
Gerald Pfeifer -
Klaus Kaempf -
Richard Guenther -
Stephan Kulow -
Wolfgang Rosenauer