[opensuse-factory] systemd v38
Hello, A new systemd version was released recently: http://lwn.net/Articles/474968/ As syslog-ng upstream and (co-)maintainer, I'm mostly concerned about the journal part, which is a system logger. Are there already plans, how it will be implemented in openSUSE and how it influences other loggers? (I must admit, that I'm not really up-to-date on systemd, as I still use good old sysvinit, as with systemd my T410 boots 5-6x longer if at all...) Bye, CzP -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Le mardi 24 janvier 2012 à 10:19 +0100, Peter Czanik a écrit :
Hello, A new systemd version was released recently: http://lwn.net/Articles/474968/ As syslog-ng upstream and (co-)maintainer, I'm mostly concerned about the journal part, which is a system logger. Are there already plans, how it will be implemented in openSUSE and how it influences other loggers?
journal is part of systemd and will be enabled. It doesn't change anything to *syslog*, compared to older systemd release : as long as *syslog* implementation were using .service and socket activated (this should be ok since 12.1, see http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/syslog but I'm not sure data there is up to date with journal ), they will still work as expected, with data from journal being forwarded to *syslog* through syslog socket. I haven't tested syslog-ng, so some configuration might be needed for the forward to work properly (syslog-ng needs an additional configuration file to read data from /run/systemd/journal/syslog). -- Frederic Crozat <fcrozat@suse.com> SUSE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/24/2012 10:59 AM, Frederic Crozat wrote:
Le mardi 24 janvier 2012 à 10:19 +0100, Peter Czanik a écrit :
Hello, A new systemd version was released recently: http://lwn.net/Articles/474968/ As syslog-ng upstream and (co-)maintainer, I'm mostly concerned about the journal part, which is a system logger. Are there already plans, how it will be implemented in openSUSE and how it influences other loggers?
journal is part of systemd and will be enabled.
It doesn't change anything to *syslog*, compared to older systemd release : as long as *syslog* implementation were using .service and socket activated (this should be ok since 12.1, see http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/syslog but I'm not sure data there is up to date with journal ), they will still work as expected, with data from journal being forwarded to *syslog* through syslog socket.
So, what you're saying is that journal is an additional logger that will run in parallel with the "normal" syslog.
I haven't tested syslog-ng, so some configuration might be needed for the forward to work properly (syslog-ng needs an additional configuration file to read data from /run/systemd/journal/syslog).
Has this been done for rsyslog already? Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger aj@{suse.com,opensuse.org} Twitter/Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Jeff Hawn,Jennifer Guild,Felix Imendörffer,HRB16746 (AG Nürnberg) GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/24/2012 02:43 PM, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
journal is part of systemd and will be enabled.
It doesn't change anything to *syslog*, compared to older systemd release : as long as *syslog* implementation were using .service and socket activated (this should be ok since 12.1, see http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/syslog but I'm not sure data there is up to date with journal ), they will still work as expected, with data from journal being forwarded to *syslog* through syslog socket.
So, what you're saying is that journal is an additional logger that will run in parallel with the "normal" syslog.
From my understanding, "normal" syslog is not installed any more by default. It is only needed if central log collection is necessary, as journal is a local only solution. Or if advanced features, like launching external applications, logging to a database, parsing messages, etc. are necessary. Bye, CzP -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Le mardi 24 janvier 2012 à 14:51 +0100, Peter Czanik a écrit :
On 01/24/2012 02:43 PM, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
journal is part of systemd and will be enabled.
It doesn't change anything to *syslog*, compared to older systemd release : as long as *syslog* implementation were using .service and socket activated (this should be ok since 12.1, see http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/syslog but I'm not sure data there is up to date with journal ), they will still work as expected, with data from journal being forwarded to *syslog* through syslog socket.
So, what you're saying is that journal is an additional logger that will run in parallel with the "normal" syslog.
From my understanding, "normal" syslog is not installed any more by default. It is only needed if central log collection is necessary, as journal is a local only solution. Or if advanced features, like launching external applications, logging to a database, parsing messages, etc. are necessary.
It is still installed by default, nothing has changed in that regard (unless somebody changed default openSUSE installed without tell us ;) -- Frederic Crozat <fcrozat@suse.com> SUSE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/24/2012 03:02 PM, Frederic Crozat wrote:
Le mardi 24 janvier 2012 à 14:51 +0100, Peter Czanik a écrit :
On 01/24/2012 02:43 PM, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
journal is part of systemd and will be enabled.
It doesn't change anything to *syslog*, compared to older systemd release : as long as *syslog* implementation were using .service and socket activated (this should be ok since 12.1, see http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/syslog but I'm not sure data there is up to date with journal ), they will still work as expected, with data from journal being forwarded to *syslog* through syslog socket.
So, what you're saying is that journal is an additional logger that will run in parallel with the "normal" syslog.
From my understanding, "normal" syslog is not installed any more by default. It is only needed if central log collection is necessary, as journal is a local only solution. Or if advanced features, like launching external applications, logging to a database, parsing messages, etc. are necessary. It is still installed by default, nothing has changed in that regard (unless somebody changed default openSUSE installed without tell us ;)
Strange. From my understanding journal was developed to make normal syslog redundant on most machines. Does it also mean, that messages will be archived twice, once by journal in its secure log database and also by syslog text files? Bye, CzP -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Le mardi 24 janvier 2012 à 21:09 +0100, Peter Czanik a écrit :
On 01/24/2012 03:02 PM, Frederic Crozat wrote:
Le mardi 24 janvier 2012 à 14:51 +0100, Peter Czanik a écrit :
On 01/24/2012 02:43 PM, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
journal is part of systemd and will be enabled.
It doesn't change anything to *syslog*, compared to older systemd release : as long as *syslog* implementation were using .service and socket activated (this should be ok since 12.1, see http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/syslog but I'm not sure data there is up to date with journal ), they will still work as expected, with data from journal being forwarded to *syslog* through syslog socket.
So, what you're saying is that journal is an additional logger that will run in parallel with the "normal" syslog.
From my understanding, "normal" syslog is not installed any more by default. It is only needed if central log collection is necessary, as journal is a local only solution. Or if advanced features, like launching external applications, logging to a database, parsing messages, etc. are necessary. It is still installed by default, nothing has changed in that regard (unless somebody changed default openSUSE installed without tell us ;)
Strange. From my understanding journal was developed to make normal syslog redundant on most machines. Does it also mean, that messages will be archived twice, once by journal in its secure log database and also by syslog text files?
Well, I'd be happy to not ship a syslog implementation by default, but not until we have removed sysvinit (otherwise, people booting on sysvinit won't have any logs..). -- Frederic Crozat <fcrozat@suse.com> SUSE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/25/2012 10:22 AM, Frederic Crozat wrote:
Le mardi 24 janvier 2012 à 21:09 +0100, Peter Czanik a écrit :
On 01/24/2012 03:02 PM, Frederic Crozat wrote:
Le mardi 24 janvier 2012 à 14:51 +0100, Peter Czanik a écrit :
On 01/24/2012 02:43 PM, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
journal is part of systemd and will be enabled.
It doesn't change anything to *syslog*, compared to older systemd release : as long as *syslog* implementation were using .service and socket activated (this should be ok since 12.1, see http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/syslog but I'm not sure data there is up to date with journal ), they will still work as expected, with data from journal being forwarded to *syslog* through syslog socket. So, what you're saying is that journal is an additional logger that will run in parallel with the "normal" syslog.
From my understanding, "normal" syslog is not installed any more by default. It is only needed if central log collection is necessary, as journal is a local only solution. Or if advanced features, like launching external applications, logging to a database, parsing messages, etc. are necessary. It is still installed by default, nothing has changed in that regard (unless somebody changed default openSUSE installed without tell us ;)
Strange. From my understanding journal was developed to make normal syslog redundant on most machines. Does it also mean, that messages will be archived twice, once by journal in its secure log database and also by syslog text files? Well, I'd be happy to not ship a syslog implementation by default, but not until we have removed sysvinit (otherwise, people booting on sysvinit won't have any logs..). Could it be solved by adding syslog as a dependency to sysvinit-init? So, if somebody (like me), sticks to sysvinit for various reasons, there is a choice of three syslog implementations, other way it is not installed by default. Bye, CzP -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Le mercredi 25 janvier 2012 à 11:24 +0100, Peter Czanik a écrit :
On 01/25/2012 10:22 AM, Frederic Crozat wrote:
Le mardi 24 janvier 2012 à 21:09 +0100, Peter Czanik a écrit :
On 01/24/2012 03:02 PM, Frederic Crozat wrote:
Le mardi 24 janvier 2012 à 14:51 +0100, Peter Czanik a écrit :
On 01/24/2012 02:43 PM, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
> journal is part of systemd and will be enabled. > > It doesn't change anything to *syslog*, compared to older systemd > release : as long as *syslog* implementation were using .service and > socket activated (this should be ok since 12.1, see > http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/syslog but I'm not sure > data there is up to date with journal ), they will still work as > expected, with data from journal being forwarded to *syslog* through > syslog socket. So, what you're saying is that journal is an additional logger that will run in parallel with the "normal" syslog.
From my understanding, "normal" syslog is not installed any more by default. It is only needed if central log collection is necessary, as journal is a local only solution. Or if advanced features, like launching external applications, logging to a database, parsing messages, etc. are necessary. It is still installed by default, nothing has changed in that regard (unless somebody changed default openSUSE installed without tell us ;)
Strange. From my understanding journal was developed to make normal syslog redundant on most machines. Does it also mean, that messages will be archived twice, once by journal in its secure log database and also by syslog text files? Well, I'd be happy to not ship a syslog implementation by default, but not until we have removed sysvinit (otherwise, people booting on sysvinit won't have any logs..). Could it be solved by adding syslog as a dependency to sysvinit-init?
I guess it could be a possibility. -- Frederic Crozat <fcrozat@suse.com> SUSE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Le mardi 24 janvier 2012 à 14:43 +0100, Andreas Jaeger a écrit :
On 01/24/2012 10:59 AM, Frederic Crozat wrote:
Le mardi 24 janvier 2012 à 10:19 +0100, Peter Czanik a écrit :
Hello, A new systemd version was released recently: http://lwn.net/Articles/474968/ As syslog-ng upstream and (co-)maintainer, I'm mostly concerned about the journal part, which is a system logger. Are there already plans, how it will be implemented in openSUSE and how it influences other loggers?
journal is part of systemd and will be enabled.
It doesn't change anything to *syslog*, compared to older systemd release : as long as *syslog* implementation were using .service and socket activated (this should be ok since 12.1, see http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/syslog but I'm not sure data there is up to date with journal ), they will still work as expected, with data from journal being forwarded to *syslog* through syslog socket.
So, what you're saying is that journal is an additional logger that will run in parallel with the "normal" syslog.
yes. And it give improved status report (check systemctl status your_favorite_service.service for instance)
I haven't tested syslog-ng, so some configuration might be needed for the forward to work properly (syslog-ng needs an additional configuration file to read data from /run/systemd/journal/syslog).
Has this been done for rsyslog already?
Right now, this config file is part of systemd package (for rsyslog). We can move it to rsyslog. -- Frederic Crozat <fcrozat@suse.com> SUSE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am 24.01.2012 15:05, schrieb Frederic Crozat:
I haven't tested syslog-ng, so some configuration might be needed for the forward to work properly (syslog-ng needs an additional configuration file to read data from /run/systemd/journal/syslog).
Has this been done for rsyslog already?
Right now, this config file is part of systemd package (for rsyslog). We can move it to rsyslog.
Hi! I didn't looked into the new systemd yet, so I don't know the complete picture... You mean, systemd provides an rsyslog.service file now? This causes a conflict on openSUSE with the syslog-service package, that provides the syslog.service file. Further, rsyslog (and AFAIR at least syslogd too) is using _PATH_LOG, defined by glinc to "/dev/log" in sys/syslog.h (bits/syslog-path.h) and compares the socket name while socket activation to assign the systemd activated socket-fd to the correct listener. Gruesse / Regards, Marius Tomaschewski <mt@suse.com> -- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstraße 5 90409 Nürnberg Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Le mardi 24 janvier 2012 à 17:14 +0100, Marius Tomaschewski a écrit :
Am 24.01.2012 15:05, schrieb Frederic Crozat:
I haven't tested syslog-ng, so some configuration might be needed for the forward to work properly (syslog-ng needs an additional configuration file to read data from /run/systemd/journal/syslog).
Has this been done for rsyslog already?
Right now, this config file is part of systemd package (for rsyslog). We can move it to rsyslog.
Hi!
I didn't looked into the new systemd yet, so I don't know the complete picture...
You mean, systemd provides an rsyslog.service file now? This causes a conflict on openSUSE with the syslog-service package, that provides the syslog.service file.
No, it just provides a rsyslog config file so rsyslog will listen to the socket in /run/systemd/journal/syslog. Ideally, we should move this file to rsyslog package (or rsyslog should become "smarter" regarding the location of the socket, this has been discussed upstream between rsyslog author and systemd folks). -- Frederic Crozat <fcrozat@suse.com> SUSE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am 24.01.2012 18:17, schrieb Frederic Crozat:
Le mardi 24 janvier 2012 à 17:14 +0100, Marius Tomaschewski a écrit :
Am 24.01.2012 15:05, schrieb Frederic Crozat:
I haven't tested syslog-ng, so some configuration might be needed for the forward to work properly (syslog-ng needs an additional configuration file to read data from /run/systemd/journal/syslog).
Has this been done for rsyslog already?
Right now, this config file is part of systemd package (for rsyslog). We can move it to rsyslog.
Hi!
I didn't looked into the new systemd yet, so I don't know the complete picture...
You mean, systemd provides an rsyslog.service file now? This causes a conflict on openSUSE with the syslog-service package, that provides the syslog.service file.
No, it just provides a rsyslog config file so rsyslog will listen to the socket in /run/systemd/journal/syslog.
Ah ... I see - /etc/rsyslog.d/listen.conf.
Ideally, we should move this file to rsyslog package (or rsyslog should become "smarter" regarding the location of the socket, this has been discussed upstream between rsyslog author and systemd folks).
Hmm... We can't just move it. Except we split out -systemd / -sysvinit subpackages providing it for systemd and sysvinit [for all tree daemons we have] and include from main configs. Gruesse / Regards, Marius Tomaschewski <mt@suse.com> -- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstraße 5 90409 Nürnberg Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Le mardi 24 janvier 2012 à 18:34 +0100, Marius Tomaschewski a écrit :
Am 24.01.2012 18:17, schrieb Frederic Crozat:
Le mardi 24 janvier 2012 à 17:14 +0100, Marius Tomaschewski a écrit :
Am 24.01.2012 15:05, schrieb Frederic Crozat:
I haven't tested syslog-ng, so some configuration might be needed for the forward to work properly (syslog-ng needs an additional configuration file to read data from /run/systemd/journal/syslog).
Has this been done for rsyslog already?
Right now, this config file is part of systemd package (for rsyslog). We can move it to rsyslog.
Hi!
I didn't looked into the new systemd yet, so I don't know the complete picture...
You mean, systemd provides an rsyslog.service file now? This causes a conflict on openSUSE with the syslog-service package, that provides the syslog.service file.
No, it just provides a rsyslog config file so rsyslog will listen to the socket in /run/systemd/journal/syslog.
Ah ... I see - /etc/rsyslog.d/listen.conf.
Ideally, we should move this file to rsyslog package (or rsyslog should become "smarter" regarding the location of the socket, this has been discussed upstream between rsyslog author and systemd folks).
Hmm... We can't just move it. Except we split out -systemd / -sysvinit subpackages providing it for systemd and sysvinit [for all tree daemons we have] and include from main configs.
And it wouldn't work for people using init=/sbin/sysvinit vs init=/bin/systemd when using a different installed -system / -sysvinit subpackage.. -- Frederic Crozat <fcrozat@suse.com> SUSE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am 24.01.2012 10:19, schrieb Peter Czanik:
Hello,
Hello Peter!
A new systemd version was released recently: http://lwn.net/Articles/474968/ As syslog-ng upstream and (co-)maintainer, I'm mostly concerned about the journal part, which is a system logger. Are there already plans, how it will be implemented in openSUSE and how it influences other loggers?
Hmm... too new -- I didn't looked at this until now. "[...] Compatibility with classic syslog implementations is provided, via a socket /run/systemd/journal/syslog, to which all messages are forwarded, regardless whether they came in via /dev/log, the journal native protocol or any other source. To make your syslog implementaiton work with this make sure that it binds to that socket instead of /dev/log which is now systemd-journal property. [...]" Hehe .... "instead of /dev/log which is now systemd-journal property".
(I must admit, that I'm not really up-to-date on systemd, as I still use good old sysvinit, as with systemd my T410 boots 5-6x longer if at all...)
On servers of course sysvinit, but on my workstation I'm using systemd, to run into all the problems myself too ;-) Gruesse / Regards, Marius Tomaschewski <mt@suse.com> -- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstraße 5 90409 Nürnberg Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
participants (4)
-
Andreas Jaeger -
Frederic Crozat -
Marius Tomaschewski -
Peter Czanik