Am Mittwoch, 20. Juli 2011 schrieb Basil Chupin:

On 20/07/11 17:14, Stephan Kulow wrote:

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Hi,

It was close, but I published Milestone3 now. It's the first with kernel 3.0, so celebrate :)

Greetings, Stephan

Are yo sure that it is kernel 3.0? See-

Go testing Milestone3 and find out. If it's not 3.0, file a bug report and we'll fix it soonish. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 20/07/11 23:17, Sid Boyce wrote:

On 20/07/11 10:38, Basil Chupin wrote:

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On 20/07/11 17:14, Stephan Kulow wrote:

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Hi,

It was close, but I published Milestone3 now. It's the first with kernel 3.0, so celebrate :)

Greetings, Stephan

Are yo sure that it is kernel 3.0? See-

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2095102/linus-torvalds-delays-linux-launch-subtle-bug?WT.rss_f=&WT.rss_a=Linus+Torvalds+delays+Linux+3.0+launch+due+to+a+subtle+bug

BC

May be it's the naming, other distros do the same even for -rc kernels. I've been running 3.0 since -rc1 and running 3.0-rc7-git4 with -git8 now building. As Linus pointed out it's a difficult bug to reproduce and only one person reported it. Since then -git7 and -git8 have been released with the fix. Regards Sid.

I guess that you are correct about the naming convention. But to say that M3 has kernel 3.0 when Linus himself states publicly that he is not releasing it just yet creates the impression in people's mind that M3 contains a tainted and an unofficial kernel. A bit of a PR nightmare...... BC -- Paradise is like Hell and neither is too far from you because both are creations of your mind and therefore both are already inside you. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 21/07/11 18:16, Stefan Kunze wrote:

Stefan Kunze Linux Technical Support Engineer EMEA Support Center skunze@novell.com

Novell Making IT Work As One www.novell.com

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Basil Chupin 21.7.2011 8:02>>> But to say that M3 has kernel 3.0 when Linus himself states publicly that he is not releasing it just yet creates the impression in people's mind that M3 contains a tainted and an unofficial kernel.

quote end

Basil, what are you talking about - what PR Nightmare could be created if you use an UNSTABLE unreleased Test Kernel in an UNSTABLE Test Version of an yet unreleased Opensuse Version. If someone uses M3 or Factory in Production, sorry that is their own fault.

Stefan

But of course.... It's always "their" fault - we all know that. BC -- Paradise is like Hell and neither is too far from you because both are creations of your mind and therefore both are already inside you. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

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Kim Leyendecker 21.7.2011 13:22 >>> Am 21.07.2011 10:16, schrieb Stefan Kunze: Basil, what are you talking about - what PR Nightmare could be created if you use an UNSTABLE unreleased Test Kernel in an UNSTABLE Test Version of an yet unreleased Opensuse Version. If someone uses M3 or Factory in Production, sorry that is their own fault.

It has nothing to do with "their fault". It just the same thing as with Red Hat́s gcc 2.96, although there wasńt any 2.96 to that time. And yes, it́s a marketing nightmare, and it hasńt anything to do with a test version or something like this. On DistroWatch, the test releases are recognized in the news section too, so, it will become nice when our marketing-team get "bombed" with questions like "M3 was released _before_ Linux 3.0 came out, how can it be Linux 3.0?" I know, it́s just a little mark, but Linux 3.0 wasńt released yet, and this should be clear in the announcement. Stefan Kunze Linux Technical Support Engineer EMEA Support Center skunze@novell.com Novell Making IT Work As One www.novell.com

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Kim, maybe I'm not a marketing guru but for me it is logical that a UNSTABLE Prerelease of a Distribution can contain UNSTABLE Software including the Kernel. Do you really mean that even in Milestones only stable Kernel or other stable software can be included. In my Optinion this is handicapping development for marketing reason, and if marketing thinks that this is a problem then marketing needs to make clear that this is a unstable Release and not something you should use in Production. And if marketing does not want to use the Name Kernel 3.0 then say 3.0 prerelease or RC6 or I don't know - but don't suggest that it uses a stable 3.0 if it does not exist. In Case only Kernel 3.0 is used - the this si also a marketing Problem making false promises. I do not see any reason for development to hold back in this specific case . Stefan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Am 21.07.2011 14:58, schrieb Kim Leyendecker:

Am 21.07.2011 14:42, schrieb Stefan Kunze:

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Kim,

maybe I'm not a marketing guru but for me it is logical that a UNSTABLE Prerelease of a Distribution can contain UNSTABLE Software including the Kernel. Do you really mean that even in Milestones only stable Kernel or other stable software can be included. In my Optinion this is handicapping development for marketing reason, and if marketing thinks that this is a problem then marketing needs to make clear that this is a unstable Release and not something you should use in Production.

And if marketing does not want to use the Name Kernel 3.0 then say 3.0 prerelease or RC6 or I don't know - but don't suggest that it uses a stable 3.0 if it does not exist. In Case only Kernel 3.0 is used - the this si also a marketing Problem making false promises. I do not see any reason for development to hold back in this specific case .

Stefan,

the problem isn´t that the testing distro contains unstable software. That´s fine. That´s the way it should be.

The only problem is, that the original announcement talks about "Kernel 3.0". Kernel 3.0 isn´t released yet, so it actually should talk about "a test version of Kernel 3.0, e.g, Linux 3.0-rc7-git8"

that´s the only problem, not that a Milestone ships unstable software.

thanks

okay, after reviewing my post, it seems like I failed to understand your mail totally. Nevertheless, I think even for developers it should be clear, that Linux 3.0-rcX != Linux 3.0 -- Kim Leyendecker (kdl@k-dl.de.vu) openSUSE Ambassador, openSUSE Wiki Team DE HAVE A LOT OF FUN! http://www.opensuse.org Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute or create your own Linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. http://www.susestudio.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 07/21/2011 09:06 AM, Rob Davies wrote:

On 21 July 2011 14:03, Kim Leyendecker wrote:

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okay, after reviewing my post, it seems like I failed to understand your mail totally.

Nevertheless, I think even for developers it should be clear, that

Linux 3.0-rcX != Linux 3.0

It was just a quick tech email to the factory mailing list, and someone had already said 3.0rc7 would be submitted for M3. So I knew exactly what Coolo meant, that is it was "go" with rc7 rather than 2.6.29.3. 12.1 M3 didn't even make opensuse-announce, will be a section in openSUSE News at weekend, I guess; so worrying about PR reaction seems a touch dramatic.

Let's not be pedantic, Stephan & Others probably put a lot of hours in over the 3.0 rc6 problem, to nit pick on how the exact version was described isn't good use of time

Rob

The way I see it. We just like to stay ahead of the curve ;-) Cheers! Roman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Thursday, July 21, 2011 06:22:49 AM Kim Leyendecker wrote:

I know, it´s just a little mark, but Linux 3.0 wasn´t released yet, and this should be clear in the announcement.

Why? Announcement is not targeting general public that may need more details, so talking about PR problems is out of context. It is posted on this mail list (opensuse-factory) to reach openSUSE Factory users that expect switch from 2.6 to 3.0 kernels. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 17:38, Kim Leyendecker wrote:

Am 22.07.2011 03:29, schrieb Rajko M.:

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Why?

Announcement is not targeting general public that may need more details, so talking about PR problems is out of context.

It is posted on this mail list (opensuse-factory) to reach openSUSE Factory users that expect switch from 2.6 to 3.0 kernels.

okay, understood. I thought it will also go out with the public announcement on news.o.o

So, sorry for that! Won´t happen anymore

Bit of a moot point now anyway.... Linux Torvalds posted on his Google+ that 3.0 has been pushed out now. :-) C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org